Talk:Miami

Seven

Do we really need to have seven separate templates at the bottom of this article? (Another one was added today). We now have {{Miami}}, {{Miami Neighborhoods}}, {{Dade County, Florida}}, {{South Florida metropolitan area}}, {{Florida}}, {{USLargestCities}}, and {{USLargestMetros}}. Any thoughts about jettisoning a couple of these? I have some ideas, but I'd rather see what others say before I throw them out there. Horologium (talk) 01:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

There does seem to be a trend of giving more and more space in articles to templates and infoboxes, to the point that it is interfering with formatting and reading the articles. I would say in this particular case that we emulate the way hierarchies of categories are handled, and eliminate the South Florida and Florida templates, as Miami and Miami-Dade County are included in both of them. -- Donald Albury 02:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought about suggesting the elimination of the neighborhoods template, since there is a link to Neighborhoods of Miami, Florida on the {{Miami}} template, as well as a link to the same article in the "See also" section. Horologium (talk) 02:40, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

That would work, as well. -- Donald Albury 15:16, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

As there was no discussion on this issue for the past two weeks, I went ahead and deleted all three of the templates discussed above. If reverted, a discussion here would be appreciated and appropriate. Horologium (talk) 04:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Good article reassessment

As Chicago strives to regain its WP:GA status, it is looking at other comparable municipalities to strive toward. Unfortunately, this is not what I believe it should be striving toward. The WP:LEAD is more than the max four paragraphs and large blocks of text are uncited. I do not consider this article any better than Chicago, which was duly delisted.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 14:59, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

This article was nominated for good article reassessment to determine whether or not it met the good article criteria and so can be listed as a good article.

I am now delisting this article based on support for speedy delisting at WP:GAR Please see the archived discussion for further information. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 03:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Capital

im trying to do a report on miami and i need to no if it is the capital of florida.can u tell me Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.255.77 (talk) 21:18, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

No, Tallahassee, Florida is. See the Florida article. -- Rai-me 21:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Everyone always thinks Miami is the capital of Florida, it's okay, it happens many times. --Comayagua99 (talk) 22:39, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

What's with the Greek pronunciation symbols?

Neither I, nor anyone I know is familiar with this: Miami (pronounced maɪˈæmi or maɪˈæmə) bizarre alien pronunciation guide. How is this of any use to the average person? Shouldn't we use the more classical dictionary way so at least a somewhat educated person could get something from it? As it stands now it may as well be an engraving on an alien spacecraft. - Marc Averette (talk) 22:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I think it's safe to say, most people know how to pronounce "Miami", it's a major global city. It's a bit unnecessary to include the pronunciation guide when it doesn't do just that; guide. --Comayagua99 (talk) 22:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I learnt this in a undergrad linguistics course and find it somewhat useful to have it included. Is Wikipedia only to have information useful for commoners? 220.101.4.57 (talk) 06:36, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

It's the International Phonetic Alphabet, which is great for those for whom English is not a first language, and for those who are more familiar with other writing systems (Cyrillic, Greek, Kanji, Han, etc). It's not as convenient to AmE speakers, but to everyone else, it's a good thing™. It is the preferred method of describing pronunciation, as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (pronunciation). Horologium (talk) 23:47, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Most other US cities have this pronunciation guide, so I don't see why Miami shouldn't. As Horologium stated, there are many readers who will find this information useful. -- Rai-me 23:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression that this was the 'English' Wikipedia. If someone has another native tongue, shouldn't they use one of the other Wikis? - Marc Averette (talk) 01:00, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily; they "should" use whatever Wikipedia they want, and for readers with another native tongue learning English, that may very well be the English Wikipedia. -- Rai-me 01:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Who keeps on including the "maɪˈæmə" pronunciation? That is an affectation used by no more than a few percent of the population--mostly non-natives trying to sound native. There is no natural accent which supports that pronunciation(contrary to some belief, it is not southern). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.68.177 (talk) 21:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Affectation or not, it is a recognized pronunciation, and is used by natives as well as transplants trying to sound native. Horologium (talk) 22:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Recognized by whom? How about including the "mi'aemi" Latin pronunciation, which is not only more popular, but has the advantage of legitimacy?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.68.177 (talk) 17:13, 2 May 2008

Many older (80+ years) people (including my grandparents native to the Florida Keys) pronounce it 'my a muh'. I (born & raised here) have always pronounced it 'my a me'. - Marc Averette (talk) 21:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Sister Cities

Murcia (Spain) is sister of Miami since 1994, I do not know why it is unknown by Miami's council. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.121.35.234 (talk) 22:50, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

You need to find a source for that statement, probably the Munipality of Murcia website, and add to the article with the source. For now, I have sourced the list better, and I have tagged the unsourced two cities that I found [1] --Enric Naval (talk) 01:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Languages

Miami is DOES NOT have largest Spanish-speaking population in the Western Hemisphere outside Latin America as the article claims. Los Angeles with a population of over 4 million has far more spanish speaking residents than Miami. And if you follow the citation used for that statement you will see that it does not say anything about Miami having the "largest Spanish-speaking population in the Western Hemisphere outside Latin America" like the article claims. The reference does not say anything like that but just states people speak spanish in Miami. Somebody needs to correct this. 66.105.33.6 (talk) 22:55, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Quoting directly from the cited source: Miami has the largest number of Spanish speakers in the western hemisphere outside Latin America. (First paragraph, fourth sentence.) If you can find a citation that contradicts that, please provide it. Horologium (talk) 23:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

You will find that Spain is in the Western Hemisphere - look on any map and 85% of it is west of the Prime Meridian. Spain has a population of 45 million. The claim that Miami (or Los Angeles) has the "the largest Spanish speaking population in the Western Hemisphere outside Latin America" is inaccurate. I realise it is a small point but it goes to the heart of wikipedia being a factual and reliable database that can be relied upon for its integrity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.106.54.79 (talk) 21:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Your argument appears to be an "unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position", as defined in the policy at Wikipedia:No original research. As Horologium said before, find a reliable resource for your position. BTW, I've always understood "Western Hemisphere" to be as defined here. -- Donald Albury 23:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia itself discusses the 'Western Hemisphere'. I suppose the definition depends on which view you prefer; a strict or colloquial interpretation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.21.197 (talk) 23:57, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

The point is that we have a reliable source for the statement. Unless you can cite a reliable source that says otherwise, and not just your own analysis, the statement should stand in the article. As the policy at Wikipedia:Verifiability says, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth — that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true." -- Donald Albury 11:36, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Crime in Miami

I have read and heard a lot about Miami's crime rates. From what I have learned, Miami's crime rates, particularly the murder rates today are nowhere near as high as they were in the early 1980s (the height of what is now known as the "Miami Vice" decade.) For example, in 1982, Miami reported 600 murders per year, which would constitute a murder rate of a technically unreal 172.9 per 100,000 people (in 1984, Miami was officially dubbed "America's murder capital" by the FBI.) Miami's murder rate in 2006; about 19.5 per 100,000 people. Darthvader1 (talk) 03:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Crime

Thye crime information that was shown was way off. Miami doesnt even rank in the top 25 anymore and the metro area is not second. Its all old information.JulianM09 (talk) 02:21, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Miami is now the 4th largest Urban area in the U.S. !

I'm not sure how to state this in the opening paragraph with the proper reference below, so could somebody please do the honors of placing it there? Both of these links below are the populations lists that the NYC page uses, and they both say that Miami is number four. I think that the Urban Agglomeration page is more impressive looking. If somebody smart can update the page properly, I'd appreciate it! Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_agglomerations_by_population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_by_population —Preceding unsigned comment added by Miamiomar (talk • contribs) 02:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The Financial Capital of the Americas

This doesn't make sense to me at all. I would think that this would be New York City. Any sources saying otherwise? 98.212.165.97 (talk) 16:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I took a look at that. A Google search for "Financial Capital of the Americas" Miami -wikipedia returned only 19 hits, none of which were reliable sources, except for an article from the Miami Herald, in which the reporter was quoting a Miami business leader (which isn't reliable either). The other hits were PR releases, advertisements, or discussion forums. I removed that statement from the article, since it isn't really crucial to the sentence it was in, and appears to be PR fluff. Horologium (talk) 17:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Three Official Languages?

Does anyone have a source for Miami having three official languages of English, Spanish, and Haitian Creole? I notice in the government websites and other Miami sites that a lot of things are translated into those three languages, but have they really been designated as official or is it just a practice? I've just never heard of a city having an official language, but it'd be nice to provide a source so that we can take the fact tag off. Kman543210 (talk) 00:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Move and revert

This page was moved to [[Miami]] yesterday without discussion, in contravention of the convention established at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (settlements)#United States. I have reverted it back to [[Miami, Florida]], and any further discussion to move it should take place at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Typing in Miami will redirect to this article, so it doesn't impact searchability. Horologium (talk) 11:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Horologium! Once again, sorry you got caught in friendly fire from my gun yesterday, so to speak. -- JeffBillman (talk) 19:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Urbanized Area

(copied from discussion at Talk:Miami)

I think the references I carefully added a while back have been bunged up good, but there is a difference between Metropolitan Statistical Area and Urbanized Area as defined by the Census Bureau. Miami was the fourth most populous Urbanized Area in the U.S. in 2000, after N.Y., L.A. and Chicago. See the table at [2]. -- Donald Albury 23:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, the ref prior to when I changed it to the metro area was to a university and use to say fifth for the longest time, until some IP user changed it to forth. So I looked up the table for metro population, changed it to the 7th largest and added a ref. _{El Greco}^(talk) 00:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the reference Donald Albury provided, it appears that Miami is the fifth largest urban area, after New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Philadelphia. Dallas and Houston, which have larger metro populations, have smaller urban populations than Miami. I have updated the article accordingly. Horologium (talk) 03:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe the 4th was based on a site that has a 2007 census *estimate*. I'm not sure where it was, I supposed we could look back in the history to find it. Also there is this list on Wikipedia: World's largest urban agglomerations, which shows the Miami area being the 4th largest in the U.S. Someone may have likely confused urban *agglomeration* with urban *area*. - Marc Averette (talk) 18:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

The agglomerations thing is referenced from a UN list; we were using that here until somebody pulled in the Census Bureau list (which is the same data that is available on the Texas A&M University site). I feel more comfortable using the Census Bureau data, which is consistent across all states and uses data that is widely available, even if it does drop the area down from fourth to fifth. (grin) Horologium (talk) 18:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Newer photo keeps getting reverted

Can someone explain to me why a newer photo I am putting of the skyline is continuously being reverted for one that's over 2 years old? I though the article for Miami should contain more recent photos. There is another article for history of Miami for old photos - 67.191.12.203 (talk) 15:08, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

You would do much better to propose such changes on the talk pages, and wait to see what consensus develops. In the meantime, please stop the personal attacks on other editors or you will continue to be reverted and blocked as a disruptive editor. -- Donald Albury 16:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation?

Why does Miami redirect to Miami, Florida? The title could just be Miami, as we have a seperate disambiguation page. :S --Jza84 |  Talk  19:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Because of this naming convention. -- Donald Albury 19:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

OK. I couldn't find anything on the talk page, nor in the archive. Seems daft to me though, IMHO. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  22:00, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The last time it was tested, consensus was to keep the current name. -- Donald Albury 22:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Global city?

The Global city article has Miami as a "world city," which is sort of second tier, not a "global city." But is that really worth mentioning in the first line? --AW (talk) 21:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

You know people on this site like to over-hype their cities/states/countries/agendas by any means. This site often let's them get away with it too. Miami's fame precedes the power of the city. The skyline is mainly hotels and other living places - not office building where business is conducted. I hardly think Miami has the next best skyline after Chicago. Hell, even Los Angeles, whose skyline is not the most powerful to me is more powerful than Miami's. So is Seattle, Houston, Dallas, Philly and so on. Wiki needs to help end the madness.

World's fifty most-populated urban areas

Miami? more than San Francisco? and where is Madrid, bigger tan Miami? --84.120.9.13 (talk) 02:06, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

There is currently a proposal on the table to amend the Wikipedia naming conventions for US cities to follow the AP Stylebook's suggested names. This would effectively move a number of US city articles currently on the list, so Miami, Florida would be moved to Miami. To comment on this discussion, please go here. Dr. Cash (talk) 16:53, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

The result of the debate was move to Miami. Cheers, Rai•me 17:59, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Crime

The information about Miami's old days of crime should also include information on how crime has lowered the last decade and as recently as last month there was no murder for the the first time in 42 years.--JulianM09 (talk) 21:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree on that, good point. Sbrown146 (talk) 02:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Photo montage?

The other big cities are all putting photo montages in the infobox: Check out Chicago, Los Angeles and New York City. Miami should have it too. What landmarks to include? Separate photos of downtown & midtown? Vizcaya? Freedom Tower? B of A building lit pink? Biscayne Bay? Virginia Key Beach? Any other ideas? - Marc Averette (talk) 21:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I've never heard this pronunciation before: /maɪˈæmə/. I would like to see a source for it.--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 23:57, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Two links--Merriam-Webster and Dictionary.com, which includes both Random House and American Heritage dictionary listings. All three note the -uh pronunciation, which is uncommon but still valid. That pronunciation is most commonly heard among elderly Anglophones, but that statement is OR, and can't be cited. I am going to revert the dubious tag, because there are three separate citations available online, and likely dozens more in paper dictionaries/atlases/gazeteers/encyclopedias. Horologium (talk) 01:27, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Ahh, I keep forgetting that the online dictionaries often do have pronunciations for common geographical names. Should have checked myself. Thanks!--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 20:31, 23 December 2008 (UTC)