Talk:Soul food

General Southern food

It's stupid to suggest those foods are only eaten by blacks. I'm black and I would never eat the majority of that stuff. Only the veggies, cornbread, biscuits, and potato salad.Email/User Talk 12:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello, my name is Robert and I am a White Southerner and I heard of Soul food, but never really knew what it was. I clicked on here expecting to find a "cuisine," but like 80% of the items listed as Soul food is just Southern food in general. Most of what is categorized as Soul food here is eaten by me and most every White Southerner in the United States. Many of the items listed here are White Southerner food as well. I guess we call ours Southern food and you call yours Soul food. I really don't think there is a "Soul food," pretty much just a general Southern food that is eaten by most Whites and most Blacks with the addition of some items on both side of the color line that is exclusive to that group. Fried Chicken, Chicken fried steak, macaroni and cheese, corn bread and most of the foods listed here are part of my heritage as well as yours. Exclusive to none, eaten by all; in the south atleast. Just wanted to speak on that. Thank you and have a nice day.

Robert from Louisiana

Older comments

Is this term in the article correct? "Southern American African Americans"

It's not wrong, but it's a bit stilted. I'll beat on it some. Salsa Shark 07:42, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

This food is basically just the common food of the South, black or white. Except for chitlins, my mother, from Oklahoma, or her mother-in-law, also from Oklahoma, used to cook all of these dishes. RickK 05:53, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

As a white Southerner with rural ancestors (first generation urbanite), I was fascinated to learn that black Americans had a special food all their own. I also wondered what it was, since all of the black people that I knew ate just the same things that we did. Once I became an adult, I learned to my surprise that I had been eating "soul food" all of my life unawares! Having said that, I will add that I had several relatives (not my parents) who were greatly fond of "chittlins". They are far from solely a food of black Americans. I will also add that the experienced taster generally can distinguish between food cooked with vegetable oil and that cooked with lard, although with today's sedentary lifestyles, few of us "work off" the saturated fats in daily living, and if we consume soul food frequently we will generally become obese and otherwise unhealthy. Instead of eating "imitation" soul food, many of us eat it now only infrequently as a special treat, almost akin to lobster or filet mignon, just not nearly as costly!

Rlquall 16:39, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I, too, have been eating these foods for most of my life. (And trust me, my family couldn't be more white!) Even calling it "soul food" (we don't call it that in my family, we call it "Southern food", and here in the South as far as I can tell it's just "food", but I'll look into that) is slightly foreign to some people who have been eating it all of their lives. I have yet to see a "soul food" restaurant in the South, though there are "Southern" and "country cooking" restaurants all over the place. (And yes, they serve precisely the same thing.)

What I have noticed is that in the American South, this kind of thing is eaten by everybody (at least it's what one's grandmother cooks). "Soul food" is the term more often used in the North (where it actually is a part of African American culture that is not shared by most of the populace). I have been told that originally it was inexpensive and so it was what poor people would eat, regardless of race, and of course at that time most African Americans in the South were poor, which may be where the associations came from. This seems reasonable to me, but of course "some people think" is not really evidence.

I don't know exactly what to do with this article. More opinions? [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 21:36, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

There's plenty of soul food restaurants in the South, or at least there are in Georgia. There was one around the corner from my high school (and we got to go when we made straight-A's). There's even one in Orlando, Florida--the Motown Cafe at Universal Orlando. It's more of a "corporate" version of a soul food restaurant, but the more true-to-life ones are plentiful (nearly omnipresent) in Atlanta--b. Touch 07:04, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I changed "eaten" to "prepared by" ("created by" may be even better, now that I think about it) in the first sentence, as it is more consistent with the m-w.com definition[1], along with some of the top google hits[2][3]. The info seems pretty consistent that most of the dishes were first created by southern black americans, but I can easily believe that they escaped the racial boundaries several generations ago, at least in the South--I've lived in Seattle for almost 40 years, and the dishes in the article are definitely more preferred by black residents than other races. Looking at this list of 'soul food' restaurants in Seattle, other than the paid ads and a couple downtown, they are exclusively in very predominately black neighborhoods[4]. Niteowlneils 01:44, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have to agree with the above statements. Soul food seems to be associated with blacks only outside the south----in the south its just southern cooking---rich and poor blacks and whites have been eating it for generations. Also, the article needs to make a stronger point that sould food does not have the same negative associations it once had----many people regardless of color or socioeconomic level love this hearty fare. Kemet 21:05, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Low Country Cooking

I think there definitely needs to be a nod to this style of cuisine as part of soul food -- and, perhaps, a separate section. deeceevoice 07:43, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Enlighten me

This is a serious question, not a rhetorical one: Why are lima beans erroneously referred to as "butter beans"? Why is this necessarily incorrect? Rlquall 18:53, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

There's a difference. Same species, different size/maturation/flavor. This from the Internet:

"Lima and Butter Beans - The difference between butter beans and lima beans is based on the size of the pods and seeds. The small-seeded, butter beans tolerate more heat, but it takes forever to shell a mess of butter beans!

"In cooler areas, some of the runner types of the large-seeded, lima beans have pods 5 inches long, with half a dozen big, flat seeds per pod. Some of the bush types have small, fat seeds in nearly round pods. These are called 'potato limas.' Lima and butter beans with speckled seeds have a stronger taste than the white- or green-seeded varieties."

I remember as a young child sitting in the kitchen in Bethany, Texas, with my grandmother, each of us with one of those large, enameled tinware bowls in our laps, shelling "a mess of (speckled) butter beans." It took forever. deeceevoice 09:28, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Changed "Country fried steak" to "Chicken fried steak". Country fried steak is a recent invention only used at restaurants (like Denny's) that cater to people who are easily confused by the lack of chicken in their chicken fried steak. Also, I'd like to add that I'm white, and from the south, and grew up with many of these dishes. Though, as someone else pointed out, it's usually a grandma doing this kind of cooking.

24.215.179.19 05:42, 14 January 2006 (UTC)Thank you! I thought I was imagining that we had always called that item chicken-fried steak. And I ate almost all of thse dishes--sould food is Southern food, with maybe the exception of chitlins and a few othet items. But by whatever name--soul/Southern food = YUM.

Problem with the list

Going on the common journalistic principle that you "assume the reader know nothing"--i.e., has no foreknowledge of any major point in the article, this list suffers from familiar to distinguish between "soul food," which I would define as those dishes especially associated with African-Americans, and "things that African-Americans traditionally like to eat" or "commonly ate in Southern households."

Certain things, such as chitterlings and collards have a strong association with black cuisine and culture, while others are not at all special. Mac 'n' cheese, meatloaf and mashed potatoes are stereotypical middle-American fare. Chicken livers are prepared in anything from chopped liver (associated with Jews) to roasting in piquant sauces. Hot sauce is more identifiable to Hispanic/Latino culture. Rice? Just about everywhere in the world. I think we should figure out some way of better informing the reader. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 19:56, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Classifying something as "soul food" doesn't mean it is exclusive to African American culture. And, no. Hot sauce is definitely a soul food item. It is different from Tabasco sauce and different from anything found in traditionally Indio-Latino food. Peppers and spicy food are all about spices (peppers) commonly grown used in tropical climates and common in African/creole cooking, as opposed to the relative blandness of traditional European (white) food. (Remember, white folks went to the Orient/Africa for their spices.) And rice is most definitely soul food. In fact, had it not been for the expertise of African slaves, who were familiar with the crop, rice cultivation likely would not have survived in the U.S. at all. What? Because rice is eaten all over tthe world, you would not mention it in an article devoted to the culinary traditions of China or Japan? Ridiculous! deeceevoice 23:34, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Also, Chicken Fried Steak is not what I would call Soul Food because it was created as a substitute for Weiner Schnitzel when veal was unavailable among German immigrants in Texas. Not so much Soul Food as simply American. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.199.81.17 (talk) 01:43:39, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

Chicken Fried Steak is what I would call Southern Food. But being from the South I don't call Southern food Soul Food so... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.149.75.183 (talk) 19:36, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Collard greens

I thought some of the people interested soul food might be interested in the question of what to name the article currently known as Collard greens.

There are really two questions. One is a complicated one about what is collard greens, what is kale, and what is spring greens, and whether they should have separate articles or be merged.

The second is, assuming there is a separate article, whether it should be called Collard, Collards, or Collard greens.

Your thoughts are welcome.

Pekinensis 19:11, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Call it Collard greens, and state in the lead sentence "Collard greens, also known as simply collards...". I've heard a few people say "collards", but almost everyone I know says "collard greens". --b. Touch 01:51, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sweet Bread

A page on soul food with out including "Sweet Bread"? I hope my Mama don't see this page.

LOL! --FuriousFreddy 02:29, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

The word slaveowner

I can't find the word slaveowner in any of the dictionaries I have (Webster's 11th Collegiate, American Heritage, 4th ed., Chambers, 9th ed.). Is there a source for slaveowner? Thanks. —Wayward ^Talk 02:05, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

A slave owner is someone who owned and sold African people like they were property. They (Africans) were forced to be slaves.Email/User Talk 12:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Non-native food

What foods were brought from Africa? Rich Farmbrough, 21:14 3 September 2006 (GMT).

Soul Food Online

Should that link to Soul Food Online really be under 'history and culture'? It's already listed under external links - Conner 10 September 2006.

Rituals

I'm thinking there should be a section dealing with food-related rituals in African American culture here. Like the pouring of libations "for those who are no longer here" -- very West African. Like the preparation and consumption of greens (or cabbage) and blackeyed peas for New Year's Day to ensure prosperity. Like church homecoming picnics and Sunday dinners and rent parties -- and, oh, those Saturday night fish fries! deeceevoice 05:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Indigenous Influence

IM pretty sure that "native american" food had more of an influence on soul food than is suggested in the article.

Needs work

I read only one section and made a few changes. The piece needs a good editorial once-over. There were a lot of generalizations that needed qualifying, or text that required general clean-up for unencyclopedic language in the portion I read. Also, throughout "south" is often not capitalized -- which is incorrect. When used to refer to the region, it is always capitalized. deeceevoice 20:22, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Inconsistency in "Soul food and health"

"Soul food was developed by enslaved Africans who lived under the difficult and impoverished conditions of grinding physical labor. The history of soul food does not begin with the roots of slavery, but with traditions stretching back to Africa." Either it began with slavery or not. Either this is inconsistent or confusingly stated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.1.172 (talk) 19:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. And its caused a race-centric heart disease pandemic that the article quietly tip-toes around. --98.232.182.66 (talk) 09:45, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

why is there a hea;th section?

The article on southern cuisine does not have despite southern cuisine being VERY unhealthy. YVNP (talk) 14:42, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Chitterlings

The section

"African American slaves also developed recipes which used discarded meat from the plantation, such as pigs' feet, beef tongue or tail, ham hocks, chitterlings (pig small intestines), pig ears, hog jowls, tripe and skin."

is somewhat misleading as it suggests (perhaps unintentionally) that African American slaves developed the recipe of chitterlings. Chitterling is a Middle English word (1066-1460 AD) for a pig's small intestine, especially when fried as a food, and it was a common foodstuff for poor people in Europe in the medieval period. Likewise tripe is a Middle English word and refers amongst other things to those parts of the entrails (commonly the stomach) used as food. Poor people in medieval Europe used pretty much every part of the animal; I'm sure poor people across the world did the same, so it is not a specifically African American slave-related thing to exploit these parts. Is there some way of phrasing the sentence unambiguously so that it is clear they they used these parts but that there is no suggestion that they were the first to do so. 86.133.244.80 (talk) 12:38, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Lots of valid info removed

Just wanted to note that a user just removed a ton of valid information; all of the following was removed:

Other items

• Chow-chow (a spicy, homemade pickle relish sometimes made with okra, corn, cabbage, hot peppers, green tomatoes and other vegetables; commonly used to top black-eyed peas and otherwise as a condiment and side dish)

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• Grits (or "hominy grits", made from processed, dried, ground corn kernels and usually eaten as a breakfast food the consistency of porridge; also served with fish and meat at dinnertime, similar to polenta) Eaten by most Americans in the south

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• Hot sauce (a condiment of cayenne peppers, vinegar, salt, garlic and other spices often used on chitterlings, fried chicken and fish including homemade or Texas Pete, Frank's, Tabasco, or Louisiana brand) A contribution from the Cajun people of Louisiana

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• Macaroni and cheese (usually cooked from scratch with cheddar cheese, milk, flour, and seasonings mustard is option but a rarity.) It becomes a casserole when meats, such as bacon or ham, are added. Eaten all over America

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• Rice pudding, with rice and corn-based vanilla pudding Eaten in many cultures

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• Sorghum syrup (from sorghum, or "Guinea corn," a sweet grain indigenous to Africa introduced into the U.S. by African slaves in the early 17th century; see biscuits); frequently referred to as "sorghum molasses"

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• Sweet tea, inexpensive orange pekoe (black tea, often Lipton, Tetley, or Luzianne brands) boiled, sweetened with cane sugar, and chilled, served with lemon. The tea is sometimes steeped in the sun instead of boiled; this is referred to as "sun tea" General Southern cuisine

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• Salmon Patties (also known as Salmon Croquet/Croquettes), a mixture of skinned & de-boned salmon, mixed with cornmeal, eggs, milk and onions fried in a skillet to make small, round patties.

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• Red Velvet Cake - a popular cake within the African-American culture, in which some say the dark reddish color of the cake symbolizes the struggles of African-Americans during the decades. Eaten in many cultures

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• Waffles

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• Watermelons

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• Banana Pudding

--172.129.151.213 (talk) 05:36, 14 March 2009 (UTC)