Talk:Japanese sword

Weight

The average weight of a well-balenced and good sword is never heavier than three lbs, this allowed quick and precise movements for the wielder.

Nodachi lenght

Quote: Nodachi: 80 to 90 cm End of quotation.

Isn`t the nodachi above 90 cm in all cases? From what I know, there isn`t a single sword, classified as a nodachi, that is under 91 cm. 80-90 cm is what most will call a Oukatana, or a bigger-than-usual katana, but still one. The nodachi is longer and thicker, right? Normal swrods carried by the samurai were about 40 inches in length.

It should be. The longest nodachi to date is over 300cm long. MythSearcher^talk 19:13, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I-beam

On Ripley's believe it or not a samurai was able to slice through halve an I-beam, should we add this? -Babelious 15:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

There aren't any samurai anymore (outside of wannabes). Do you have a reference for this? I'm pretty skeptical about spring steel being able to slice through a real I-beam. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 02:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You need a source on this, cause it sound impossible (and is) —Preceding unsign ed comment added by 24.119.210.17 (talk) 20:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Ripley's believe it or not is a reliable source, althought it would be verifiable. MythSearcher^talk 20:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

actualy for the one who does not believe that a well made katana could cut through an I beam this is obvious fact. Part of the issue that created the unique style of the japanese sword is the dichotomous relationship between hardness (and therefore the sharpness of the cutting edge) and the flexibility, and therefore the resiliancy of the steel. The brilliant solution was to make only one side of the blade fully tempered and quenched, which allows the katana to be much sharper than any ordinary blade period, so much so that it will cut through regular steel. the reason it will do that is normaly, since one must balance the dichotomous relationship between hardness and fexibility (if its two hard it will be brittle, if it is too soft it will not be usefull) they are generaly somewhat softer than the steel can be, which means the katana edge, which is as sharp as it is possible to make steel (and if you made a western sword that hard it would be useless because it would break on contact with a target) it will naturaly be able to cleave through naturaly hardened steel (such as an I beam), which is one of the reasons why the samourai stopped using armor even without widespread use of guns. They were simply useless in face of the sharpness of the their swords. so no this does not at all surprise me. Ibeams are generaly extremely soft as far as iron goes, and certainly nowhere near the harness of a nihonto hammon.

that said, this article has some serious drawbacks. Unfortunately the sources I used were taken off the internet, so I can't source them, but it fails to mention things like the nagamaki (the origional horsemans weapon, consisting of a sword blade mounted on top of a polearm, used for mowing at oponents legs. the tachi was more of a side arm used in closer combat and while on foot.) also the shoto used by samourai up until the nobuchenko period were strictly tanto, the precessor to the wakizashi was not invented till then.

this article needs some serious attention. Yoni 74.128.36.101 (talk) 18:36, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

You mean naginata? MythSearcher^talk 19:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

No, Nagamaki. a naginata is a proper spear, and made completely differently from nagamaki. A naginata is for infantry, Nagamaki is for horsemen. B Naginata is much thicker and spreaded, and generaly lacks a fuller, also it is much shorter, perhaps 12 inches. Nagamaki is shaped like japanses sword, with fuller at the base and closer to 2 1/2 feet. Also nakago of naginata is maybe 3 feet. Nakago of nagamaki is more like 7 inches. Yoni 74.128.36.101 (talk) 19:21, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Sections to add

We need to add much more detail about katanas if this is to gain good article status again. I propose some additional sections

* Manufacturing of Katanas or Construction or How Katanas are Made
* Legalities (such as which countries prohibit use or ownership)
* Use in Martial Arts (e.g. training)

Drmadskills (talk) 02:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

A couple other sections we should add

* History
* Legalities
* Anatomy

Drmadskills (talk) 02:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

History section needed

This article strongly needs a discussion of the history of the katana. I don't have the knowledge to do it myself. (The reason I came to this article was to get an overview of the history.) --JHP (talk) 22:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

What the hell? Why are the katana article and the Japanese sword articles pointing to the same discussion page?! How do we specifically discuss the katana article? --JHP (talk) 22:18, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I've fixed that. You can go to Talk:Katana to discuss whatever you want to discuss. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 23:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Domo Arigato Gozaimasu. --JHP (talk) 23:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I noticed that you recent edits included changing the history section to katana, while it would be within the scope of this article, it seems like it fits into the Katana article as well. Would it be a good idea to duplicate some of that info to the katana article as a start of help improving it since it got little history section in it? MythSearcher^talk 09:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Saburabi sword

Japan's 1st monarch was from Baekje a Korean nation and Koreans still called Japan Wae Nara (water nation) and not Japan a colony of Baekje. During the three Kingdoms era when Shilla bribed the Tang Dynasty to overthrow Koguryo and thus unifying Korea. Remnants of Koguryo unified to become Balhae which is in present day North East China(Yenbien)/Russia(Vladistovok) See^^ and Baek je which comprised the other Kingdom which is presently in the southern west part of the Korean peninsula were forced to leave Korea by Shilla-Tang forces and intergrate with Wae Nara (Japan). Even during this period Koreans called it the Il-Baekje Shide which means Japan-Baekje Period which was prefeudal era Japan introducing many new technologies such as metallurgy, pottery, textile making, and Korean cuisine to the less developed Japan advancing their culture to the modern Japan you see today. Including the "Saburabi" which was a Baekje Sword and sounds a lot like samurai, it was curved but less than the Samurai Sword you see today with the exception that it had no guard. Korean swords did not have a guard because the psychology was suicidal. It is a kill or be killed mentality because without a guard you must pierce(direct attack) as opposed to slashing(evade attack). Nevertheless the codes of the samurai are founded on Baekje martial arts principles. And the samurai sword is a later model to the "Saburabi" and the baek je sword is the true origin of the Japanese samurai sword. It is not only just a sword but the technology, philosophy, and psychology of Korean martial arts that would give birth to the most decorated and symbolic era of Japan that the world has come to acknowledge all originated from Baekje Culture which was a Korean dynasty that branched out from Koguryo. The founder of Koguryo was Jumong and one of his sons later founded Baekje. Koguryo became advanced in metal work and it was at this time that they leveled up to the iron stage when China still lingered at the copper stage. This and many other reasons powered up Koguryo as a territorial kingdom thus reposessesing much of the land China took back earlier and destroying the four commanderies to further increase Koguryo's territory. China denies Koguryo's presence and existence in the region for obvious reasons and they have taken measures to eliminate evidence, however, through websites like wikipedia any reader in the world can light the truth in the darkness. Anyways, Jumong's son early interest and devotion to metal work aided him in advancements in this technology and established Baekje as a regional military power to the south of Koguryo(present day North East China) and west of Shilla(South-Eastern half of Korean peninsula). The capital of Baekje was called "sabi" and sword was called "saburabi" and as you can see the code of martial arts is very much inherent in the culture through the words being utilized. And as stated earlier "samurai" is almost identical to "saburabi" only it was adopted and reworded into japanese text hundreds of years later to resemble that particular style of warfare. Back to the main point, through these examples when stating present day borders with their significant geographical locations we can clearly see that it is easier for the present day reader to visualize and understand it in the present day context and most of all it is proper because Jilin province in China is not under Korean rule by imperial Koguryo. -[comment by User:Koguryo18 moved here from another page, where it was posted 22:28, 27 September 2008 (UTC)]

Hadagane-Kawagane

The article makes reference to "hadagane" in the manufacturing section but I believe what is being referred to is actually called "kawagane." Is this a case of different terms used by different smiths? Or is this a misreading of the the characters? -Karl —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.154.3.10 (talk) 01:01, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Lengths

Under Classification of Japanese swords, there is a list of different length spectrums. It is however rather unclear, as it isn't specified whether it is overall length or just blade length. Could someone please fix that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.29.142 (talk) 15:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

折り重ねられた片刃の刀の技術が10世紀に中国からもたらされたという記述について

I am sorry, I write in Japanese. If Japanese can be read, Mr. Mythsearcher should be able to read my writing. If someone translates my sentence, I wish to express my gratitude.

日本美術刀剣保存協会のサイトには、「日本の10世紀以前の刀は上古刀（jokoto）と呼ばれ、中国から持ち込まれた直刀（chokuto）であった」と書いてあるだけです。折り重ねられて作られた鍛造の曲がった片刃の刀の出現は、10世紀前半の平将門と藤原純友の乱（承平・天慶の乱）以降であると書いてあります。このサイトには折り重ねられて作られた曲がった片刃の刀が中国の技術によりもたらされたとは書いてありません。日本人の間では常識の事実で、日本刀の技術は太刀（tachi）から現れたものです。--219.107.186.175 (talk) 22:57, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for not checking the source before reverting, you are right, the source did not mention about the folding technique. The source was included into the article by me a long time ago, and as I recall now, I did not mention anything about the folding technique at that time, someone else must have changed the sentence in between. I should look clearly before reverting. This is my fault. MythSearcher^talk 10:19, 16 February 2009 (UTC)