Talk:The Holocaust

Jews Only

Thousands and thousands of non-Jews were killed by the Nazi's, why does the opening paragraph state that the Holocaust only refers to the Jewish dead, there were more than just Jews at the camps, everbody knows that and changes should be made, this is the 21st century, we should have gotten this right by now.

We assume people are capable of reading more than the first sentence of the article and continuing to the second. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 06:05, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

The first paragraph should be a summary of the whole doc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.14.173.77 (talk) 13:33, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

The Lives of Jews during the Holocaust

-Primo Levi’s Memoir: “Thousands of individuals, differing from age, condition, origin, language, culture and customs are enclosed within barbed wire: there they live a regular, controlled life which was identical for all and inadequate to all needs, and which is much more rigorous than any experimenter could have set up to established what is essential and what adventitious to the conduct of the human animal in the struggle for life.”

-Recollection from concentration camp prisoner: “the Kapo (commander) of our unit killed a friend of mine because he was not standing up straight.” Roll calls were held when inmates returned from work, at midnight, and even for an entire day. Roll call was when workers would be ordered into formation.

-Kapo’s were sometimes 18 years old. One was reported to have killed 400 Jew’s for their food rations.

-Camp work included working in underground stone quarries for a year without seeing daylight.

-A Usual work day was seventeen hours of work and two to five hours of sleep.

-One inmate had frostbitten feet. The German guards responded to his problem by wrapping paper around his feet and sending him back to work in the snow.

- The diet of inmates consisted of bead chunks made of flour and sawdust, watery soup that was spoiled and spoiled sausage.

-Prison Guards were rewarded for ordering inmates to do impossible tasks (such as running to washrooms even when the inmate did not know where it was) and then beating them to death for not being able to comply. Sadistic fun was normal.

-Some Inmates were worked so far to exhaustion that the inmate would intentionally provoke the German Overseer to shoot him dead. Jewish infants would sometimes be tossed up in the air and shot by German soldiers.

-Practice of religion was punishable by death

- Obedience was more dangerous than disobedience. Anything could be stolen. If people obeyed they were frostbitten, starved literally to death, and deprived of sleep enough to die of exhaustion. Therefore they were called mussulmans (zombies).

- Most Holocaust survivors were non-Jews

“In Odessa, on October 23, 1941, 19,000 people were taken to a square, doused with gasoline, and set afire.” Daily Life During the Holocaust

Jews have been hated since the middle-ages.

Birkanau or Auschwitz II Concentration camp killed almost 12,000 people a day by the use of gas chambers disguised as showers for Jewish inmates.

Experiments on dead and alive death camp inmates were conducted by the Nazi’s at Bikanau, the German experimenters had little to no medical training. Some inmates would volunteer to be experimented in exchange for food to eat. Experiments included being injected with typhus, malaria, various other diseases and gasoline just to see the effects of the injection.

-People had to wait in line for hours to get one food ration which sometimes never came. Surviving on this diet was beyond possible.

-Water used for drinking and washing was polluted. People even got to the point where they traded their clothes for food.96.238.183.115 (talk) 20:09, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

What exactly is the point of this unreferenced information? Please note WP:TPG and the notice at the top of this page stating that this page is not a forum. RashersTierney (talk) 20:35, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Factual Error in the article

There was a factual mistake in the article. Look the table in the section titled "Extermination Camps". The reference '139' "Yad Vashem" does NOT say that 600,000 died in Jasenovac. Take a look: http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/microsoft%20word%20-%206358.pdf . The USHMM puts the figure of victims in Jasenovac (including Serbs, Bosniaks, Croats, Jews and Roma) to 100,000. Yahalom Kashny (talk) 21:12, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

It looks like you're right about the Yad Vashem link. It contains no figures. But I don't see the 100,000 number at the USHMM link. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 22:24, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't quite know what is going on here. About a year ago, if I recall, the article did say that "600,000 died in Jasenovac". But that was changed ages ago. It now says that between "56,000 and 97,000" died there per the JVL source and that around 500,000 died overall per Yad Vashem, so where is this supposed 600,000 figure? The Yad Vashem link footnoted in the article certainly does give the 500,000 figure. Paul B (talk) 10:27, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see now. The figure was changed in the text, but no-one noticed that the tablulation of deaths per camp had been left unaltered - until now! Good catch. Paul B (talk) 10:31, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Reineke80, 7 November 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Please correct typo: considerd -> considered

Reineke80 (talk) 20:20, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for pointing it out. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 21:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Removal of section: Japanese Policy of Prohibition of Persecution (cont'd)

Continuing what I wrote above, this section is grossly out of place here in the section "Development and execution". In fact there is no mention of the policy of the other Axis power, Italy in this article. Japanese policy is presented at: Japanese Response I propose to delete the section within the next couple of days.Joel Mc (talk) 11:43, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

That seems right to me - I agree it's out of place here and breaks up the flow. The international response article is linked in the 'see also' section, and this article is already very long. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 13:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

"breaks the flow" is my first reaction, too. While the material does belong somewhere, unfortunately no contextual thought (and whatever Wikipedia policy) was given when placing it in the middle of the current article. What I can't yet find in Wikipedia is something like "Reaction of other Axis powers to Nazi "Jewish problem" proposition". Is this discussed anywhere? It would include Italy and others, and Japan could be juxtaposed there. Either in International response to the Holocaust, or (I think better) The_Holocaust_(responsibility)#Other_states. Japan is unique in these list of responses to the Holocaust, in that it was an Axis power itself.Jimhoward72 (talk) 16:23, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Minor Grammatical Error: programme

The introductory paragraph uses the following test:

"a programme of systematic state-sponsored extermination"

• program* is the American English variant and should be used instead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.58.165 (talk) 18:08, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Why would the American variant be preferred? I don't see any obvious trend toward US or UK usage, and where there is no internal inconsistency in an article, neither variant is preferred. Acroterion _(talk) 18:14, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Is there any Wikipedia policy regarding this? As far as standardization? There is the same problem with Hebrew pronunciations (transliterations) in Wikipedia - half the time they use the Yiddish pronunciation, and half the time the Israeli. There is no consistency.Jimhoward72 (talk) 20:41, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

The Holocaust is Jewish Genocide

The Holocaust article should be reserved only for Jewish victims. Mention of homosexuals, mentally challenged, Romani and other people should, perhaps, be moved to a different article, or perhaps, included in individual articles like Genocide of Romani People etc...Yahalom Kashny (talk) 01:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 186.19.195.227, 22 November 2010

I noticed in the section titled "Pogroms (1939–1942)" it says: "[...]on June 30, 1941, in which as many 14,000 Jews were killed by Romanian residents and police [...]" It should say "as many AS". 186.19.195.227 (talk) 07:32, 22 November 2010 (UTC)