Talk:German Americans

What has Einstein got to do with America????

The bizarre lead mentions Einstein setting intellectual landmarks... correct, long before he retired in America becoming a dual citizen in his 60's, having left Nazi Germany. No one associates Einstein with America (bar living there in old age)...as after Germany its then to a much lesser degree Switzerland. The loose reference here in the lead lacks credibiity. Its like Iceland having a section on Bobby Fisher as a chess champion as he adopted citizenship in his latter years. The others in the section ARE noted German-Americans namely Babe Ruth, Jack Nicklaus, Leo DiCaprio.. they are Americans of German descent who have been influential while under that label. Yes with Einstein being German and adopting American citizenship in old age, that merits a bullet point in a German-American list, but thats it.BudSipkiss (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:16, 17 December 2009 (UTC).

It's especially funny to see him here paraded around with pride as "German" (as in many other places)... first they try to gas him, chase him out of the country, and then when he becomes famous around the world, they suddenly claim "he was one of us!". Go figure. I won't take this out, considering all the past edit-wars, but he shouldn't be paraded around as "German"... Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 08:09, 23 December 2009 (UTC) It is evident Einstein was German: he was born in Germany, spoke in German language and even his name is German. When you say "they" you forget that in every country there are people with different ideologies and religions and, in fact, millions of Germans didn´t vote for Hitler. We can add that according to the israeli Bryan Mark Rigg in his book "Hitler´s Jewish soldiers" over 160,000 Jews fought for Germany and for Hitler in WWII...--79.146.21.101 (talk) 21:54, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

This is typical of the English Wikipedia pronounced anti-German sentiments. It is strongly infused with belittling German achievements and famous people, while trying to lay claim to German achievements with only the slightest American connection. It's like WW2 is being continued online. 92.252.116.227 (talk) 23:32, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Einstein in old age?? -- he was 54 when he moved permanently to Princeton in 1933 and immediately became the most famous American scientist; he was a major American voice on many issues (such as the atom bomb). Rjensen (talk) 09:35, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

LOL... Behave. Einstein as a middle class German, received his Nobel Prize in 1921 for "intellectual landmarks" when he had German citizenship. As a world famous German he was awarded the inaugural Max Planck medal in 1929 from the German Physical Society (the worlds largest org of physicists)..of which he was a previous president. Yeah as the highest profile German he fled Germany when the Nazis took over, and he retired in America whereby in his 60's he had dual Swiss-American citizenship in 1940..then died 15 yrs later. Again, Einstein should only be a bullet point in any German-American article...ie. the famous German scientist in his latter years retired in America. BudSipkiss (talk) 04:16, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Einstein was born in Ulm. That makes him German. The people who tried to "gas" him were Nazis not Germans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.67.117.149 (talk) 16:49, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

How do you get to be a German American? You start out as a German, leave Germany and move permanently to the U.S. and renounce Germany while taking out US citizenship. Millions of people did that and Einstein was the most famous. Rjensen (talk) 23:13, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

You can also be German-American if your parents immigrated to the US from Germany. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^PRAISE 16:49, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Very strange debate. On one hand we could argue Eisenhower was not German enough. On the other hand, Einstein was not American enough. Rjensen has got it right. That photo of Einstein, taken when he was 68 and an American citizen, is Einstein the notable German-American.--Work permit (talk) 05:59, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

The thoughtlessness with which some people use "Nazis" synonymic with "Germans" is incredibly offensive, and not less so when they don't mean the Germans of today, but the Germans that lived when the Nazi dictatorship was in power. That's like saying "KKK member" when you mean "US American". 62.152.162.238 (talk) 04:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

You are quite correct. The view that a "German Jew" is not "German" is Nazi ideology, not the view of Germans. The equivalent statement would be "Barak Obama is not American".--Work permit (talk) 05:52, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Einstein was not a german! Einstein was a Jew!! Einstein went to America because of Nazi Germany and became thus American. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.250.68 (talk) 16:31, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

As stated above, there is no contradiction in someone being both Jewish and German. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:38, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

If it were German, it would have had to go not away. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.250.68 (talk) 16:46, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

my english is bad. sorry. Ich finde jedenfalls, wer nach America ging, ist auch somit Amerikaner geworden. Letztendlich sind es alles nur Menschen gewesen. In Deutschland ist das genauso. Viele Menschen stammen von den Römern oder den Polen oder Ungaren ab. Letztendlich sind es nun deutsche. Und alle Menschen die in USA geboren sind, sind Americans! Und wer nach Amerika ging wollte Amerikaner werden oder er wollte Amerikaner sein. So sehe ich das. German Americans bzw. Deutschamerikaner gibt es für mich nicht! Das ist Schwachsinn! Das sind alles Amerikaner! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.250.68 (talk) 17:00, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but this is not a forum, and just because you think those who go to America and want to be American, are not German anymore, doesn't make it so. Your personal opinion is irrelevant, because only sourced information will go into the article. As far as jews are concern, it was not they who did not want to be German, but the Nazi regime that didn't want them to be German. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^PRAISE 15:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

How RACIST are some people: KISSINGER and EINSTEIN are two German-Americans. They were/are Germans and Jews. Only the Nazis think that Einstein and Kissinger cannot be German because of their religion.--83.63.180.178 (talk) 23:33, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

It seems to me that this article is referring to Americans who belong to traditional German ethnic groups, not that their nationality is German (because obviously, they are American). If this is the case, of course Einstein is not ethnically German at all, seeing as how he is an Ashkenazi Jew. I think arguing over whether he is American or not is beside the point, since the question is of his ethnicity. 76.105.6.113 (talk) 06:16, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

You should read the article. This and all other such 'foo' American articles are about people from the country of 'foo', regardless of their ethnicity, religion, or whatever. Hmains (talk) 04:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Correct, it is about nationality not ethnicity. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^PRAISE 15:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Even from the perspective that this article should only focus on ethnic German heritage, Einstein would qualify. Ashkenazi Jewish communities existed in Germany for nearly two thousand years - The chances that no gentiles married into these communities are next to nothing. Most African Americans and Native Americans east of the Mississippi River have European ancestry, and they've only coexisted with Euro-Americans for a few centuries. --74.103.150.125 (talk) 04:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

infobox

added Marlene Dietrich · Wernher von Braun · Henry Kissinger. Needed more women, and more German-American immigrants.--Work permit (talk) 06:30, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Regarding addition of Dicaprio by anon user. His mother moved from Oer-Erkenschwick at the Ruhr, Germany, to the U.S. during the 1950s,[4] while his father is a fourth-generation American of half Italian and half German descent. Should he be added? And if so, who should be removed?--Work permit (talk) 01:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

===U.S. communities with the most residents born in Germany=== The 10 U.S. communities with the highest proportion of residents born in Germany are:

1. Lely Resort, Florida 6.8%
2. Pemberton Heights, New Jersey 5.0%
3. Kempner, Texas 4.8%
4. Cedar Glen Lakes, New Jersey 4.5%
5. Alamogordo, New Mexico 4.3%
6. Sunshine Acres, Florida 4.2%
7. Leisureville, Florida 4.2%
8. Wakefield, Kansas 4.1%
9. Quantico, Virginia 4.0%
10. Crestwood Village, New Jersey 3.8%

City-Data is not a source! It has no citation. It is a message board link. TomNyj0127 (talk)

No citation to German born people in America

City-Data is not a credible resource. It is a message board site. They don't provide any resource (ex. Census records) to show there is a population born in Germany in any of those towns. It has no credibility. Please don't diminish the integrity of this article by allowing shoddy information. With that being said, please don't keep putting it back up there. I have been respectful enough to give you an explanation. I'd appreciate the same. TomNyj0127 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:27, 5 March 2010 (UTC).

Reference to Karl Strauss/Microbrew movement

I replaced the two sentences removed under the "undue weight" guideline. The point is to clarify that German American contributions to the U.S. brewing industry did not begin and end in 1850 with Bud Light and Pabst Blue Ribbon. There is a bunch of *good* beer in this country too, a lot of it is microbrew, and a lot of that resulted from German influences in the mid-to-late 20th Century. By definition, the most prominent microbrewer is going to be less of a household name than Anheiser-Busch. That doesn't stop microbrew from being important, however, and I chose to mention Karl Strauss as being one of the best known and most prominant of that group. I don't feel it is "undue weight" to clarify that there is more to the German influence on American beer than "Tastes great! Less Filling!" —Rnickel (talk) 16:22, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Antisemitism

A lot of people talk about paranoia about people saying "Jews control America", which is obviously a ridiculous antisemitic claim. However it is true that Germany is very sensitive in matters involving Jews for the obvious reason of WW2 reparations. But what is often not heard is that the majority ancestry in the US is German. Could that be a source of 'shame'? Inclusion of articles from reliable source on the matter for betterment of the article would be appreciated. --Leladax (talk) 17:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Are you serious? --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^PRAISE 04:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Alsatians are not Germans !

Alsatians who emigrated to Texas during the 1840s were French citizens ! Alsace was French since 1648 ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.141.167.99 (talk) 07:17, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

The Region of Elsass-Lothringen did belong as well to France as it did to Germany regarding the historical periods. But this Article is about people with ethnic German background and even if there have been centuries where Elsass belonged to France the people who lived there where about 98% ethnic Germans until WW1. I travelled there a lot. The German history is there everypresent in the architecture. Hell even many champagne houses have German names. And clearly Alsatians are called the German sheppard not the French sheppard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.90.137 (talk) 02:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

1 errors in the article

Di caprio is listed as both german and russian. I don't know which he is but the last name does not sound like either, sounds more latin to me —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.18.213 (talk) 03:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

He is part Russian and German on his mother's side. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^PRAISE 16:03, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Which begs the question: why and - more importantly - who says he is the poster-child of German Americans? There's really nothing keeping him from List of German Americans because a couple of partisan sources tend to describe him like that [1], but it's a leap from being simply "a German American" to "an example of all German Americans." Bulldog123 20:18, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

The only Russian nationals allowed to immigrate to Germany are those that can prove either German ancestry or Jewish ancestry or both. DiCaprio's materal grandparents both had roots in Russia, but unless they sufficiently proved significant German ancestry they wouldn't have been allowed to immigrate to Germany. Also, when you consider that DiCaprio's paternal grandmother was German, he is probably at least more than half-German. That is about as German as the average German-American. His paternal grandfather was an Italian immigrant, hence the name. Vdjj1960 (talk) 13:08, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

InfoBox Images

I'm thinking of opening up an RfC regarding the use of ethnic group "representation" infobox images on X-American pages. It's been going on unchecked for years now and has only escalated into a competition to see who can put more famous people in their infobox (painfully exemplified by Norwegian_American). In addition to being original research - in most cases these people are not held as "quintessential examples" of that group by external sources - it's also a WP:BLP issue, as there's no evidence many of these individuals would, could, or should be identified as members of this group. That last comment may be met with responses like, "Why would anyone find offense at being called a German American?" It's not merely about finding offense but about being misrepresented. Given, I doubt leading members of the German American community would appreciate having Leonardo Dicaprio (an individual with 1/4th ethnic German heritage who doesn't speak German or seem to have much association with German culture) seated next to a more authentically German German-American like Werner von Braun -- so that's where the "offense" part might come into play. By and large though, the "finding offense" thing is irrelevant. The main point is that it's not our job as Wikipedia editors to choose who best represents members of a certain community. Right now, the infoboxes are turning into Facebook Interest groups and ethnic-pride/cultural-promotion articles. My proposal is to find consensus at RfC to simply not put any images there and have that apply to all X-American pages. There's a similar issue with population numbers (which German Americans seems to have already implemented), but I'm not going to get into that now. Anyone here would support the RfC? Bulldog123 18:34, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Been a few weeks and no response, so I presume no one is going to have a problem if I start removing the images in about a week. I think we should start taking a closer look at WP:V and understand that unless there are sources suggesting these people are "premium examples of German Americans"... what we're doing is very original researchish. Bulldog123 16:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

To reduce conflict and since these images are in most every xxx American article, I suggest you open an RfC for all the artcles collectively and getting consensus that way. This would be prior to making any changes (deletions) to the articles themselves, which will just stir up people (not me, I have no opinion on this content matter) without a prior consensus in place. Thanks Hmains (talk) 19:42, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Problem in the Second Paragraph

The second paragraph in this article starts off, "None of the historical German states had overseas colonies, so not until the 1680s did the first significant groups of German immigrants arrive in the British colonies..."

First, in the article for Brandenburg-Prussia, it says this:

"In 1679, Raule presented Frederick William a plan to establish colonies in African Guinea, and the elector approved.[68] In July 1680, Frederick William issued respective orders, and two ships were selected to establish trade contacts with African tribes and explore places where colonies could be established.[71] On 17 September, frigate Wappen von Brandenburg ("Seal of Brandenburg") and Morian (poetic for "Mohr", "Negro") left for Guinea.[71] The ships reached Guinea in January 1681.[71] Since the crew of the Wappen von Brandenburg sold a barrel of brandy to Africans in a territory claimed by the Dutch West Indies Company, the latter confiscated the ship in March.[71] The crew of the remaining ship Morian managed to have three Guinean chieftains sign a contract on 16 May, before the Dutch expelled the vessel from the coastal waters.[71] This treaty, officially declared as trade agreement, included a clause of subjection of the chiefs to Frederick William's overlordship[71] and an agreement allowing Brandenburg-Prussia to establish a fort,[72] and is thus regarded the beginning of the Brandenburg-Prussian colonial era.[71]"

So not only did at least one of the princely states have colonies, the one from Brandenburg-Prussia was founded in the same year that this article says that they were emigrating to the British colonies.

Second, the year 1680 *can't be right! and it can't be 1860s either. I actually came to find information on German emigration prior to the civil war, of which there was quite a bit for a number of reasons (and I was looking for those reasons... guess I'll have to keep looking).

stevendolan (whose email is at google.com) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.100.184.91 (talk) 02:31, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

That does not show that Germany had colonies at all. Only that they tried once and failed. Also 1683 is certainly correct - see the linked articles and citations. Rmhermen (talk) 02:45, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to ban user-created montages from Infoboxes

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#Infobox_Images_for_Ethnic_Groups. Bulldog123 09:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

wrong order under demographics by percentage

Either the percentage numbers are wrong or the order of places 2 and 3 is. 43<44 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.189.85.244 (talk) 23:06, 19 March 2011 (UTC)