Talk:Syrian Malabar Nasrani

No proof for semitic ancestry for St. Thomas Christians in Kerala

It's quite absurd to assume that the earliest Christian communities in Kerala were all converted Jews. Is there any proof for your forged story? The official view of the different churches in Kerala contradict this view and the Syro Malabar church has been in progress with Genetic Profiling of the community members. I'm quite surprised that how the contents of this page have been changed drastically from the Year 2004 to the current version. Please don't forge history to satisfy your egos.

You can prove that Jewish settlements were already established in Kerala long before Christ. But is it a proof for your story? No historian can out rightly reject traditions and legends of the local community while their own history is the matter of consideration. Bible was written centuries after Christ, but still considered historically valid document. Old Testament is full of traditions of the Jewish Community and still historians refer it vigorously. Vedas, Ramayana and Mahabharata can't be denied historical significance while Indian History is under consideration. Then why the traditional beliefs of the community under consideration have been denied a space in the history without any valid justification. Your story is just paving the way for a contemptuous designation "Migrated Christians of Kerala". All the references you indexed here say different aspects and possibilities, but you hand-picked one side of the story crookedly to fabricate the history with some malicious objective. So I have modified the document to give a space for the traditional beliefs of St. Thomas Christians in Kerala.

Ashley Thomas(ash.simple@gmail.com)

DNA evidence of jewish descent of Nasranis

For latest research on Nasrani heritage and Jewish descent. Please refer to research by Dr Mini Kariappa, of Department of Anatomy, Jubilee Mission Medical College, Thrissur. Dr Mini Kariappa has done DNA analysis of syrian malabar nasranis and found evidence of Jewish descent amongst the Nasranis. She presented her reserach on september 5th 2011 Please read current research before being believing in ancient legends of Brahmin conversion. It is time to give up on casteism.

There was a link of her interview in the malayalam language that was published in a malayalam language newspaper in Kerala. Here is the link http://www.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/malayalamContentView.do?contentId=10033956&programId=1073753770&channelId=-1073751706&BV_ID=@@@&tabId=11Robin klein (talk) 21:27, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Your reference again contradicts your theory

The thesis of Dr.Mini suggests that the ancestry of Bhattacharyas, Aiyars, Aiyangars, Chitpavan and Saraswat brahmins-who altogether constitute more than 60% of the entire brahmin community in India- also could be traced to Jews. But many of the communities mentioned above have conducted independent Genetic Profiling and DNA analysis which they have uploaded in Wikipedia itself. These analyses very well suggest that they belonged to Indo-Aryan ethnic group. If Dr. Mini found Semitic genes in the genome of these brahmin communities along with Syrian Christians of Kerala , it well suggests the traditional belief of the latter community. Inter marriage between different ethnic groups in the earliest Syrian Christian community caused some Semitic genes to be mixed in the Syrian Christian genome. Let's wait for the outcome of official research being conducted by Syro Malabar church, since Dr. Mini was not an expert in that field. Until then, the tradition holds the lime light. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.72.195 (talk) 08:19, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

No my logic does not contradict the theory as proposed by numerous researchers. But your logic does show your casteist intentions. Besides it is interesting to see how despite evidence of Semitic descent you call it unsupported. While there is no need of any citations or evidence for numerous of your claims. Well if your casteist intentions make you happy then let it be. Your words betrays your casteism Robin klein (talk) 09:11, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

* And your Jewish version is not racist? Other than Menachery, who are the other researchers? Can you give any official website suggesting you view? How silly you call many of the given data as evidence?

My view is open - unless otherwise proved, you can't change the official history of concerned churches. I do not disagree that there were Semitic people among earliest christian community in Kerala. But it will be absurd to believe that all were Jewish converts. If your "All-Jewish" version is not racist, then what else? Even the ministry of Christ would become invalid if only Jews were baptized in India by His Apostle. Cochin Jews still keep their Jewish traditions, rituals and culture upright while the Syrian Christians uphold Indian culture to a great extend. If Syrian Christians were 100% Jews, their reference group could never have been changed like this. Your theory is full of Faults Mr.Robin. Please try to comprehend the complexity of Nazrani History. -Ashley

Need of a new section - Archaeological Findings

I think this article needs a new section detailing the archaeological findings like Muziris,various plates and roman coins discovered of earlier trade.I request readers opinions.I can come with a draft.

Maharshisy , 15 July 2007 (UTC)

നസ്രാണി = Nazori not Nasrani

The English transliteration of സുറിയാനി മലബാർ നസ്രാണിക is totally erroneous. It seems like the article was first begun by a Muslim. In Islam they call all Christians "Nasara" and singular is Nasrani. But the correct transliteration of നസ്രാണി would be Nazori or Nasori. No other Christians in India Use this term, only we do, but Nasrani would apply to all the Christians in the world from a Muslim point of view. Can someone change to the correct transliteration please? 81.103.121.144 (talk) 12:54, 26 February 2011 (UTC) The name is clearly the same as that Philaster referred to as Nazorei/Nazarei (as too thought Jerome). "The sect of Filaster (Nazorei/Nazarei) derives somehow from the Nazirites and accepts the Law and prophets." ft.12, p.73 'Nazarene Jewish Christianity: from the end of the New Testament period until its disappearance in the fourth century' By Ray Pritz 81.103.121.144 (talk) 01:08, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi,

Can someone who understands better the beliefs of the Nasrani/Knanaya church explain to me why, or if, there is any connection with the problem edits at Notzrim claiming that Nazarenes predated Christ back to the time of Jeremiah? In ictu oculi (talk) 18:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Files in this article

The pictures of some of the Syrian Malabar Nazranis are included in this article without any rhyme or reason. There is no way of finding whether they are really Syrian Malabar Nazranis. Either delete all these or allow others also to include the pictures of their friends and relatives.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 17:13, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Anna chandy judge.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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52 AD

(Regarding this edit and the associated edits wars): I accept that there is a traditional claim among the Syrian Malabar Nasranis that St.Thomas arrived in Kerala in 52 AD and agree that it should be mentioned as such. But, there has been no credible historical evidences to prove it. It is well agreed in academic circles that the date of 52 AD is a claim and not something historically proved. Moreover, many historians have made suggestions that St. thomas's claim of having converted Brahmins is contradictory, as Brahmin migration took place a couple of centuries later. There were sources that say that no evidences were found which was removed by the user.

Ishwar Sharan's "The Myth of Saint Thomas and the Mylapore Shiva Temple" dissects the claim and tells that there is a strong christian tradition for the date, but no evidences. Man, Volume 11 published by the Royal Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland says (p.54) regarding his Kerala visit: "However, most scholars agree that although St Thomas could have come, there is no conclusive evidence". There are many many sources that establishes.

In such a context, you cannot bring in fringe claims of having found evidences by someone like "Dr.Benedict Vadakkekara" with an unverifiable citation. The point is simple, there has been books written by christians and the church toiling to establish that their account is backed by historical evidences. But, it has been unequivocally academically agreed that such claims eventhough could be true, are not backed by credible historical evidences. I request the user to follow WP:BRD and act only upon the consensus arrived in this discussion. Arjun^codename024 16:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)