Talk:Mehmet Oz

Deletion proposal

I don't think his height belongs in the personal details section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lifeasaperson (talk • contribs) 22:24, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I believe this page should be merged with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Mehmet_Oz --Dandija 02:44, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

You placed the same header on that page. The articles should either be merged with one or the other.¤~Persian Poet Gal ^(talk) 05:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Article Dr. Mehmet Oz is merged with this one now.¤~Persian Poet Gal ^(talk) 23:21, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Cruelty

Claims of cruelty to dogs, in experiments conducted by Dr. Mehmet Oz, are absolute nonsense!!!! This link should kill such accusations. http://www.oprah.com/relationships/Protecting-Your-Pet-with-Dr-Oz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Engines On (talk • contribs) 06:32, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

I had to add a part on cruelty because mainly on http://www.columbiacruelty.com/letters/USDA1104.pdf Dr. Oz is mentioned by name.More http://www.peta.org/Living/AT-spring2005/AT-Spring%202005_4-5.pdf; http://www.stopanimaltests.com/f-worstlabs_10.asp; more http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=mehmet+oz+columbia+experiments&fr=yfp-t-501&SpellState=n-1737714703_q-%2F2kkxarGK%2FnjpldRB8spkgAAAA%40%40&u=www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/10/emw298400.htm&w=mehmet+oz+columbia+experiments+experiment&d=Y-FWhfH_Qi-N&icp=1&.intl=us

Dr Oz labs need to be investigated —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.11.173.137 (talk) 02:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Dr. Mehmet Oz merge to Mehmet Öz

I have tagged the article I created called Dr. Mehmet Oz with a merge proposal. Though Mehmet Öz contains much of the information in my duplicate article there are small tidbits that I think can add on to this article. If I could please request that the Mehmet Öz editors share their opinions on the Talk:Dr. Mehmet Oz page. Thank you.¤~Persian Poet Gal ^(talk) 01:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

• Since the "five days of silence" have passed I'm going to start merging information from the duplicate article.¤~Persian Poet Gal ^(talk) 23:05, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia's policies state that ethnicity is not supposed to go in the introduction of the article. He was born in America, is an American citizen, and is currently living in America, therefore He is AMERICAN.

Considering the Wikipedia nature (as an encyclopedia) even he is an American, his original surname is a Turkish surname as a result it should be altered to the genuine form; ÖZ in order to keep original form represented. (additionally OZ does not represent any meaning contrary to the original name ÖZ). (cantikadam (talk) 15:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)).

Misspelling of name

I have reverted the undiscussed, unreferenced use of a fictional spelling contrary to that used in every single source and link on this page, as far as I can see. The proper name of the article is clearly Mehmet Oz. There is not, at the present time, even a tiniest shred of evidence that I can see that would even justify an inclusion of any alternative spelling in the article. If someone has some reliable sources for that, the variant spelling could probably be added. Gene Nygaard 03:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

We don't know if he owns a Turkish pasaport or so. The orginality of the surname should be kept as "ÖZ". (cantikadam (talk) 07:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)).

Not a single source is cited, nor can I find one to suggest the use of diacritics in his name. Columbia University does not use the diacritics, and they are a University. It seems particularly preposterous to suggest his wife changed her name to one that includes the diacritics. Dr. Oz does not use them on his books. He also pronounces his name like the wizard, not as in "ooze" as someone had posted. Additionally, from Marilyn Monroe to 50 Cent, Wikipedia mostly uses stage names in biographies of celebrities. If a source can be found indicating his legal name is something other than Mehmet C. Oz, then perhaps that sourced information should be included the same way the above-mentioned performer's legal names are included in their biographies.

Reverted move back to Mehmet Oz

I reverted the move since his name is widely used without the diacritics - since he's an American, I wouldn't expect them to be used at all. Please discuss on talk page before any future moves. Thanks. --Chris S. 00:06, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe his father would have had a Turkish passport and therefore be named Mustafa Öz, rather than Oz. My case was similar to his during my 4 years in Canada. My surname has an "ı" (dotless i). It got written as an "i". 78.169.193.94 (talk) 12:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Just an update, his father has returned to Turkey for his retirement and therefore definitely has Turkish citizenship 78.187.40.51 (talk) 08:09, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Changing his Nationality

I have again changed the intro to reflect Oz's proper nationality. According to all info cited in the article he is an American. That is, he was born in America. He was educated in America. He lives in America. He should be identified as such in the intro. Now, don't get me wrong. If someone has sources that show his ancestry is Turkish, then, by all means, put that in the body of the article, where it would belong, and cite it. But, PLEASE, stop mis-identifying him as Turkish in the first sentence of the article. It is confusing, incorrect and not sourced. Let's remember this is an encyclopedia, screwing up someone's nationality in the intro paragraph is sort of a big deal... Cheers, Levi P. 06:58, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Opening paragraph. Even if there is a source saying he is of Turkish ancestry, it probably shouldn't be mentioned in the lead. PrimeHunter 14:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I have looked it up on several resources where it is said that his parents are from Turkey.One of the sites I have found is www.theturkishtimes.com, and I will cite the phrase where they say his parents are Turkish: "Dr. Mehmet Oz is perhaps the most accomplished and respected cardiothoracic surgeon in the United States. Born in the US to Turkish parents, he works at Columbia University New York Presbyterian Hospital in New York City". The direct link to the article is http://www.theturkishtimes.com/archive/03/0503/f-oz.html. I hope I have informed you well enough so that the change done by you is unjust. A. Yahudi.

You seem to be confusing Oz's nationality with his ancestry, A. Yahudi. PrimeHunter has been kind enough to locate and link to the controlling WP guideline both above and beneath your statement. Cheers, Levi P. 23:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I guess you didn't read the link I gave to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Opening paragraph, so let me quote it:

"The opening paragraph should give:

...

Nationality (In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable. Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability.)"

PrimeHunter 16:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, PrimeHunter. I looked for the controlling guideline but couldn't find it. Now that it has been located there should be no more confusion ( I also reformatted our comments so they could be more easily read). Levi P. 23:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

He is American.

12.110.189.138 (talk) 17:58, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Is he muslim?

If its true shouldn't this be added to his biography? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.71.32.84 (talk) 11:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes he is a muslim. I guess we should just add a little thing that says "religous stance: Muslim" NamesR4chumps (talk) 21:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I tried to add it but it doesn't seem to be showing up, does anyone have any idea why?NamesR4chumps (talk) 21:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes he is a muslim. Please add this information to his biography

This is unnecessary for the same reason as the ethnicity. It is irrelevant to who he is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eagle-eyedsteve24 (talk • contribs) 20:10, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

According to a few sorces I found, his father's family are Sufis. But honestly, we don't know if he actually practices Islam or if he even considers himself as a Cultural Muslim. Until he makes a clear cut statement on his religious stance, I think it should be ommited for the time being. For reference, this interview transcript from American Public Media cites the religious background of his family and it's influence on his practice: Heart and Soul: The Integrative Medicine of Dr. Mehmet Oz

Wikipedia requires a reliable source for all article content in the biography of living people.

For religion (or sexual orientation) category tags, the rules are:

Category tags regarding religious beliefs and sexual orientation should not be used unless two criteria are met:

1. The subject publicly self-identifies with the belief or orientation in question;

2. The subject's beliefs or sexual orientation are relevant to the subject's notable activities or public life, according to reliable published sources.

Categories also require a reliable source, just like article content. Studerby (talk) 20:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

He says a little (very little) about his religious practices about thirty seconds into this highly edited video. They sound a little unconventional. He does refer to church, not mosque. However, he cites a story common to many faiths. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vsk7JpRn2A —Preceding unsigned comment added by BeHealthy (talk • contribs) 16:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

In the second video on this page, he talks about his faith. When Henry Gates refers to Dr. Oz as Muslim, Dr. Oz does not offer a correction; so one can assume he agrees with the label. However, he then goes on to talk more about a belief in spirituality instead of any one faith. He believes in something, but it seems elusive exactly what that is. As his faith is not relevant to his notability, it probably does not belong in this Wikipedia entry, especially when his answers on such questions seem unclear. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/facesofamerica/profiles/dr-mehmet-oz/4/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.14.246.64 (talk) 23:41, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

In the Faces of America interview, he makes it clear that he is a spiritual Muslim. The Wikipedia article should mention this, especially given the relevant fact that Dr. Oz espouses and practices a more spiritual approach to his profession of medicine and healing.Lugalbanda (talk) 06:26, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

I disagree that Oz is clear about whether he is a muslim. He says he has been influenced by the spiritual/mystical parts of Islam, but doesn't really come out and say he considers himself a muslim. When Gates says Oz is a muslim, Oz doesn't disagree. His silence could be an implicit confirmation or it could mean that Oz neither confirms nor denies the statement. Oz says he has struggled with his muslim identity, but he doesn't actually say that he identifies himself as a muslim. While Oz may consider himself a muslim, I think he needs to make a clear statement before it goes in the article.

However, I have updated the article to say that Oz has been influenced by the mystical ideas of Sufi muslims...Oz is clear about this in the interview. -- JTSchreiber (talk) 04:59, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I should point out that he was listed in John Esposito's and the Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre's The 500 Most Influential Muslims in the World BrotherSulayman (talk) 08:39, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I doubt that the Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre counts as a respected publishing house known for its fact checking. Because of this, the book could only be used as a source for Esposito's opinions. Also, please see Studerby's comments above. To use the muslim categories here, Oz would have to self-identify with the religion, not be identified by someone else. -- JTSchreiber (talk) 05:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

What makes you say that? Esposito is generally considered an expert on matters related to Islam and Muslims. I think a reliable identification of anyone as a Muslim is as good as a self-identification.VR _talk 06:15, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I think this should make it clear that he's Muslim.VR _talk 06:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

In the Faces of America interview, Oz never explicitly says he's a Muslim. I have discussed this in detail above. You also wrote that, "I think a reliable identification of anyone as a Muslim is as good as a self-identification." You are entitled to your own opinion, but WP:BLPCAT makes it clear how Wipedia articles should handle the issue: Oz needs to publicly self-identify as a Muslim in a reliable source, or the article should not say he is one. -- JTSchreiber (talk) 05:16, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

He has a variety of spiritual and religious influences. Other Wikipedia articles don't always state a persons current religion, unless they themselves make it a major part of their public lives. Ethnic-religious parental heritage are usually stated in Wikipedia articles when known, but Wikipedia articles don't then usually continue to zero in on the subjects private religious life. I hope that Dr. Oz isn't being singled out here just because he has a Muslem parental background, that would really be a kind of discrimination and an oversimplification of a unique individual human being, although on a practical level, covering his varios spiritual interests might serve to deflect some this discrimination and might keep the article balanced, so it might nevertheless in that context, still be needed. But it's still unfortunate that there is so much editorial interest in his Muslem and Turkish roots.

He is so obviously in the mainstream of American life, so obviously not any kind of extremist, as are millions of Americans from Muslem backgrounds. 12.110.189.138 (talk) 18:07, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Afg96's comments

Afg96 left me the following message on my talk page:

Dr. Oz wants his religion to be added on wikipedia. You have no legal right to keep on changing that option. His religion must be added with his biography, end of discussion.

First, Wikipedia's policy for biographies of living persons (WP:BLP) provides the criteria for whether this article should identify Oz's religion. The criteria do not include Oz's opinion of what he would like the article to say. Second, saying that I had "no legal right" to make certain changes is a strong statement. What proof do you have to back this up? What specific law(s) are you talking about? -- JTSchreiber (talk) 05:37, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Also, remember conflict of interest and primary sources policies. Even if Afg96 was in a position to have that statement be true, that does not place Wikipedia under ANY obligation to make it so. Have the information published by a third party, and it will get posted. Otherwise, it is not going to happen as it is completely unverifiable. Psu256 (talk) 21:29, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

link review

1. deleted: *Mehmet Oz fan site - nothing on this page
2. deleted: *Dr. Oz features on the Oprah television program- search results page
3. deleted: *RealAge.com.tr Turkish Web Site presents Oz and RealAge Inc - commercial linkspam
4. deleted: *RealAge.com The YOU Doctors Center- defaults to book ad

Bob98133 (talk) 15:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Possible BLP and V issues re: animal cruelty section

I removed the section on animal cruelty. First I note that Mehmetoz has been trying to remove it today, but keeps getting reverted. I warned the user about the possible COI issue on the user's talk page, but then I looked at the section meself. The information was sourced to what appears to be an advocacy site (www.columbiacruelty.com) which I think was hosted by PETA. Anyway, none of the documents mentioned Dr. Oz anywhere in them, so I question their applicability. There is no indication from the sourcing that Dr. Oz was responsible for any mistreatment that may have occurred. The only mention I could find in the sourcing a mention on the website that purported to summarize the animal mistreatment, and seemed to list the owner of the dogs (not the vet treating them) as "Oz." Xymmax (talk) 15:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

No problem on this being removed. I looked over references and even though they are posted to an advocacy site, they appear to be reproductions of USDA documents, but you're correct in that they do not mention Oz by name. If I happen to find a better reference, I'll post to this talk page prior to posting to the article. I do believe that the information is accurate, but without a reliable source, it shouldn't be posted. Bob98133 (talk) 15:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good. If properly sourced I agree that it would merit a mention of appropriate weight. Xymmax (talk) 15:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Criticism

I think Dr. Oz is deserving of a == Criticism == section. Is Dr. Oz allowed any criticism? He definately said on XM Radio this morning that he felt there is merit to homeopathy. His interviews of authors of books on homeopathy and a book on diets based on blood type indicate no skepticism Dr. Oz's part. I would like to cite quotes from his show but don't have time to go through that. A Dr. of Oz's stature has a duty to the public to reveal the truth about medicine and quackery. I respect his knowledge and believe he generally gives good advice on Oprah's programming but I have a hard time listening to him sucking up to authors such as these. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.2.115.242 (talk) 23:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about a separate section of criticism, just because of the Wiki BLP requirements. The fact that he did not challenge an author with a dubious theory is pretty minor stuff. His invasive lab experiments at Columbia could be mentioned, but again, they have to be carefully documented. Oz, or someone associated with him, has been keeping this article as fluffy as possible. If you find referenced criticism of his work, add it to the article and we'll see.Bob98133 (talk) 15:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

What happened to the picture

Is there a reason that the picture of him suddenly dissapeared? Does anyone know where it is? -NamesR4chumps (talk) 21:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Books for a Better America Award

I searched for the Books for a Better America Award and Oz is the only awardee that comes up. Nor can I determine what organization grants the award or why it's considered "prestigious". --George100 (talk) 21:50, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move. I performed a history swap because the move target had a significant history. This has the side result of obviating the need for any move protection; the existing history at Mehmet Öz prevents any move there without administrator intervention.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:46, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Move article Mehmet Öz to Mehmet Oz

Rationale: all references, including the books he has authored, refer to him with this spelling. The spelling that his ancestors used for the family name is not relevant to Wikipedia.

Note to admin - note that the talk page is correctly titled, it's only the article proper that needs to be moved. As this has been an ongoing problem, if there's an administrative move-only lock, it would be nice if that could be applied. Studerby (talk) 21:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support. Although the subject is of Turkish extraction, he was born in the USA and apparently never uses the "Ö" on his various publications, &c. — AjaxSmack 00:04, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Columbia animal testing

I added a revised section with added referencing on Dr. Oz's dog experiments at Columbia University; to this article on March 28, 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.89.115.184 (talk • contribs)

I removed this junk. Dr. Oz is not mentioned in any of the source materials. Only on two activist websites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.237.196.228 (talk) 19:41, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

The main source was a 2004 letter from Mary Beth Sweetland to Elizabeth Goldentyer, DVM of the USDA. Dr. Oz and his dogs (as in Oz dogs) are discussed on pages 2 through 5. http://www.columbiacruelty.com/letters/USDA1104.pdf Most of the website information was reproduced from this pdf document. It is usually "activist sites" which make a point of documenting animal abuse. Furthermore, this uncontested information appears to have been online for quite sometime, since the incident took place in 2004. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.89.115.184 (talk • contribs) , April 2009

Are there any other reliable sources for this "material", ie newspaper or trade journals, ect. That would go along way to determine its appropriateness for inclusion. Thank you, --Tom (talk) 18:02, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

The following are mainline articles that reference Dr. Oz in relation to this subject. The first one obviously, references this specific investigation.

• New York Daily News Oprah's Heartless Expert?, December 14, 2004
• PR Newswire Columbia Grad Returns His PhD to Protest Animal Cruelty, May 18, 2005 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.89.115.184 (talk • contribs) , April 3, 2009

IP, can you please sign your posts using four tildes(~), thanks. The first clipping talks about allegations? The 2nd is an except from a book?? I profess to never hearing of Oz or his work, so I am just trying to figure this out from a disinterested perspective. Anyways, --Tom (talk) 19:38, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Google Results

I took out the completely asinine section about his google search results. Aunguna (talk) 21:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Picture

That's a hideous picture of him. Does anyone have a better photo to use? Everyone knows him from the billboard ads and TV shows as a nice smiley doctor who doesn't wear a suit. BrotherSulayman (talk) 07:00, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Personal Life

I saw that someone used the past tense when speaking about his father, but the man is still alive - he appeared on The Dr. Oz Show on 12/9/09. I would change it, but I don't know how to cite an episode of a TV show and I'd like to put the citation. I could use some help. Psu256 (talk) 03:43, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

I remember reading in a magazine, newsweek or time magazine, that Dr Oz practices the occult. This was a couple years, ago. He admitted to being a grand wizard of the olde order of the ottoman empire, or something like that. Does anyone remember which issue and which magazine it was? Someone else has to have seen this. {

The Ottoman Empire was based in Turkey, where he is a citizen and served in their armed forces. Mayby you're confusing his military rank with a cult. 208.125.242.236 (talk) 19:51, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Spelling error

Married is spelled 'marriede' in the personal section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.175.130.243 (talk) 17:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, it's fixed now. -- JTSchreiber (talk) 03:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Pseudoscientist

I've re-added the 'Pseudoscientists' category. 'Alternative medicine' is classified under Category:Pseudoscience. If the subject of the article is categorized under 'People in alternative medicine', it seems perfectly sensical to add the similar category of 'Pseudoscientists'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.166.238.174 (talk) 10:51, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Early Life correction needed

it says he was both born in Ohio and born in turkey, as amazing as he is, this I don't believe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.151.116 (talk) 19:36, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

That would be amazing! Actually, that's not what the article says. Mehmet Oz was born in Ohio, while his father, Mustafa, was born in Turkey. -- JTSchreiber (talk) 02:52, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Alternative Medicine: Controversy?

Evidence-based medicine is the cornerstone of modern medical practice and many alternative and integrative therapies are regularly taught in both osteopathic and allopathic medical schools. It is a foundation for osteopathic medicine and has become almost universally included in the curriculum of the top allopathic schools in the United States (where Oz went to medical school). Therefore, we need to be very careful when including heavily researched therapies such as acupuncture in the controversies section, regardless of what other physicians may have said. These controversies belong in an alternative medicine article, not in the article of someone who practices the therapies.

In short, I'm all for including controversies, but wording needs to be very specific, and "up-to-date." If a few hundred physicians are against integrative medicine but thousands upon thousands of new physicians are being graduated each year having been taught to use some (evidence-based) integrative medicine when appropriate, I think we should go with the majority and leave these sorts of controversies (or histories of controversy) in their respective articles.

I will mildly edit (not remove) the section based on this.The Haz _talk 19:36, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Also, FDA approval is not the end-all-be-all for supplements and therapies such as acupuncture, and therefore I don't believe the idea should be included here (though I haven't removed it). The majority of physicians in the U.S. use and suggest multi-vitamins as a supplement and those aren't "FDA-approved".[1][2] I've also removed a source that I found to be unreliable (Skeptic's Dictionary). The Haz _talk 19:51, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Layout of Controversy Section Seems Inflated

In many controversy sections of Wikipedia articles the various issues are all encompassed in one main section, unless they are highly involved situations in which case they get a seperate sub-section, but in the Dr. Oz article, each rather simple controversy subject has a bold-faced and seperate section, seemingly inflating and expanding the controversy subjects as far as visibly possible.

12.110.189.138 (talk) 17:55, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Still a heart surgeon?

Under the career section it states that he performs 250 heart operations a year. Is this still valid? Does he still do that many? Is he still a professor? Or is his life predominately in television, etc. these days? Mylittlezach (talk) 15:31, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Also, in the info box it says years active 2002-present. Years active doing what?? He graduated from medical school in 1986. He must have been a doctor since then. What did he do between 1986-2002??? Mylittlezach (talk) 15:41, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I did a search on the website of the U of Penn medical school faculty website and Dr. Oz name brings up nothing. I have emailed the dean to see if he is still on the faculty or if he still has anything to do with the school anymore. The article insinuates that he does all of this stuff, professor, heart surgeon, TV personality, etc. all at the same time. Mylittlezach (talk) 15:57, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

'Reparative therapy' broadcast

Is it worth adding to the Controversy section (or any other) something about a recent episode dealing with so-called 'reparative therapy? The Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender (LGBT) community has expressed strong opposition his even devoting a show to that issue, but most of the information I've seen is on the Net, e.g. the Huffington Post. Or would that smack of 'Too much controversy for the sake of enumerating controversy' for Wikipedia to include it?

JWMcCalvin (talk) 06:01, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I think it's significant enough to put in, considering the fuss that major LGBT organizations are making about it. Just be sure and include reliable sources (MSNBC and HuffPo are reliable, and both ran articles on it), and point out that Oz himself is very much against the practice - the controversy is about him giving it "legitimacy" by even having it on the show in the first place. -- Hatster301 (talk) 23:12, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I came up with what I hope is a reasonably accurate, neutral summary of the incident--which of course anyone who can is free to improve.

JWMcCalvin (talk) 01:16, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

quack quack quack

I'm sorry, but if you do not point this out you are actively causing harm