Talk:Outlaw motorcycle club

Gross Overgeneralization

The section on other patches seems to focus entirely on wings. In addition to this, every source refers to findings of the same investigation of one gang (Mongols) but seems to infer that every gang uses these meanings, which is a logical jump and thus not verifiable information (as well as being one I know to be patently untrue, though I don't have a source for you so that is unfortunately irrelevant). I'd suggest the section be rewritten to point out the fact that these specific meanings (all sexual and somewhat mysoginistic) are all attributable to one group and that these meanings may not hold for other clubs, though other clubs each have their own coded symbols as well. Mongols are known to be somewhat more mysoginistic than many other groups, some of which are actually rather protective of their women.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.95.148.252 (talk)

Are all MCs OMCs?

One question, are all MC badged motorcycle clubs being considered to be OMCs?

In the UK where I am from, every "MC" club is an OMC, and any non-OMC club is a MCC. This appears to be a particularly British solution but one that was quite fiercely established. I know that there are other slightly ambiguous workarounds, such as "side-patch clubs" and RCs (riders clubs), but how is it working in the USA? For example, the Boozefighters claim they are an MC but not a OMC. How many, if any, of the AMA clubs wear an MC patch?

I am thinking of the section of women in OMC which I thought was pretty crappy. There are, of course, women's MC clubs nows ... are any of them considered OMCs?

There are several ways to view the term "outlaw motorcycle club" in North America, and depending on which definition you embrace, therein lies your answer. The first is that view which is commonly held by some members of law enforcement and the media - it being synonymous with the term "outlaw motorcycle gang" where all members are lumped in as criminals or apologists for organized criminals simply by virtue of wearing the three piece patch (logo in centre, upper patch has name of club, lower patch has region or "nomad" or other info, many variations include "MC" or "MG" patch near centre logo).

A second more widely used definition (that which by consensus we prefer to use for Wikipedia articles) is that an "outlaw motorcycle club" is simply any club which is not a member of the AMA or the FIM-affiliated equivalent in the club's home country. So this is fairly obvious. This comes from the early days when many clubs had members who participated in the racing events sponsored by AMA. The MC badge is not relevant to this definition.

However, by convention, if I were to form a riding club, whether or not I affiliate with AMA, and chose to use a three piece patch in a similar style to that used by the 1%er clubs, and used the MC or MG patch on the cut, I might put my members at risk of territorial aggression or violence at the hands of any nearby 1%er club. So, while there are likely some exceptions, you will see most riding clubs will use a one or two piece patch, and may use a MCC patch (less common in North America than UK), but will rarely use MC patch or three piece design to avoid potential conflict with any of the one-percenter clubs.

It is also dependent on which time period you are considering. In America in the fifties and sixties and in some regions even later, when most of the crime attributable to bikers was "disorganized crime", there were lots of independent clubs and lots of non-criminal members wearing three piece patches, MC patch, and living "The Life". As "The Life" came to mean, for younger members, more organized criminal activities, more about the proceeds of crime, and less about riding, and as the "Big Four" started to expand their territories and did a lot of friendly mergers with formerly independent OM clubs (or disbanded them if not considered the right material), there was less room territorially for any independent clubs wanted to remain "outlaw" but not "criminal". My view anyway, of how the landscape has evolved, for what it is worth, as an old timer. Garth of the Forest (talk) 17:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

"Historically White"

As a side issue, I also have to question the statement that OMCs were "historical white".

I know that from the early days there were Black MC in California and there still is a large and mostly undocumented world of black biking in the USA. If I was to say anything, I would say the Hispanic development arose after them and that it is far less notable. The way this is being posed, it is suggest that OMCs were by design racist which I would strongly argue against and can easily think of some references to support it. I would say it is simpler to suggest they reflected the societies they grew out of the the US in the 1960s was far more racially segregated than today or the rest of the world, segregation which was also manifested in labor divisions (e.g. OMC/motorcyclists arising out of White working classes which tended to engage in more industrial or engineering based).

I'd be interested in other's opinions before I spend time digging out the references to support this ... noting that there has always a whole load of stupid, prejudicial sh*t written about motorcyclists in general, and MCs in particular, which could be used against such an argument. --Bridge Boy (talk) 20:20, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

The charters of quite a few of the original OMC's specified that membership was restricted to white males only. In cases where there was no written charter, that rule was enforced by fiat decision on the part of the participants or founders. That particular definition has been stretched in a few cases to accommodate Latino and Asian members, but these are rare exceptions to the rule. In general- blacks and women are unable to become full-patch members of any of the "Big Four" OMC organizations. As of now there are no black members of any of the most prominent OMC/OMGs.

African-American MC's have existed throughout the history of motorcycling, as you correctly stated. However, few of these groups fit into the description traditionally attributed to 1%'er Outlaw Clubs. The black and white motorcycle world are in many respects separate societies.

Veritost (talk) 17:48, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I trust you have a reference to back that up? Bridge Boy can't as he is no longer of this encyclopaedia. --Biker Biker (talk) 19:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your query. There's ample documentation detailing the structure, ethnicity and general sociological characteristics of OMG/OMC's in print and online that can be used as a reference to back all of that up. Also- there are numerous primary source accounts written by individuals actively involved in this aspect of motorcycling that address this issue in detail.

A quick search on a major search engine featuring the name of any OMG and the name of any (to use an antiquated term) race will hopefully provide further confirmation. One can also go ahead and ask a member of a club for a more ... direct answer, if you will. Ride on.

Veritost (talk) 23:43, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Coalitions

Does anyone have any more specific references to this reference of coalitions in the USA? I know of stuff like NCOM and ABATE but these seem more specific to MCs. --Bridge Boy (talk) 06:14, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Missing the Point.

As a longtime member of the Motorcycle Community, I must share a phrase we say and display consistently. "Motorcycle Clubs are NOT gangs."-

This really is a silly thing to be disputed. Wiki is NOT an opinions website, it is for the FACTS Not if SOME do bad or SOME do good which everyone knows, more about WHAT they have done bad and WHAT they have done good.

Screaming at someone that you are a good person in a midst of evidence that you aren't only exhasibates your condition

Id suggest remove all the tedious after lines where contents goes from flowing naturally to some Idiot from this stupid club tries to lean in with the sympathy vote.

Simply put mate, no one cares about your club, they just want details. 86.175.178.109 (talk) 06:32, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on verifiable facts, and this trumps the truth every time. There are sources on the article, from the US Government agencies and others, which use the word gang in relation to these clubs. That is a verified fact, so it stays. --Biker Biker (talk) 06:53, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Toy Run

What is a toy run? There appears to be wiki page for it, so it needs clarifying here really Talltim (talk) 13:34, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Barger

Sonny Barger referred to photographs showing women in the Hells Angels in the late 1940's. His tone implied that this was something suprising. He joined them in 1957.