User talk:Dennis Brown

Queen of fusion

Check out this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:59, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

• Wow, quite nice! She has really smallish hands but that certainly doesn't stop her. Really nice technique. Several of them, as a matter of fact. Thanks for the link :) I've been trying to sell off some of my old gear 66 Fender Mustang that I modified for slide guitar, a 76 Mustang, 73 Gretsch model 7676, a couple of active 5 string basses (Jazz and a Warwick). Simplifying. I have started playing a bit again after a break of a few years. Definitely rusty. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 13:46, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello...

Just checking in with ya as I am on an unscheduled Wiki-Break. Hope all is well with you and your family.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:17, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

• Yeah, I'm still on a fully scheduled one. Hope things are going ok for you. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 13:46, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

  I know you're extremely busy Dennis, but there's a suggestion on the Sunbeam Tiger's talk page about how to resolve the production numbers controversy. It seems reasonable to me, but I'd really appreciate your second opinion. Eric Corbett

   Done That does seem to be the most logical, honest and informative way to deal with it. He did pretty good work on that, and I'm sure you can put just a little lipstick on it. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:51, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Some stroopwafels for you!

Thanks for all the work you've done described at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2013-10-09/News and notes. I looked for a single malt Scotch to give you, but there was none on the menu. SchreiberBike talk 00:41, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Good job. Congratulations ! Cantons-de-l'Est (talk) 14:16, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Medicine

Hey Dennis. If there are any medical articles that need to be looked at following this paid editing issue I am sure a number of us at WP:MED would be happy to help look into it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 02:13, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) medicine-related articles that are still on the wiki: ITelagen, John T. Knight, ViSalus, Martin Bayne, Moderna Therapeutics, RxWiki —rybec 02:41, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Okay so these seem to be vanity or company pages. No evidence of editing disease or medication related content? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 04:55, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Unquestionably, I would want you looking at them Doc. I'm not really around much right now, however. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:38, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Great work on this case by the way. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 00:46, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

And you have my support to continue blocking sock puppets / paid editors. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 07:42, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Hey Dennis

Sorry to hear the frustration in your voice at Jimbotalk. Remember, if you feel you need a place to vent or to go into detail that might not be fully allowable at WP, WPO is always available to you. (I've got your back if they start throwing rocks at you...) Best regards as always, —Tim /// Carrite (talk) 07:04, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Admin's Barnstar

I was a little sad and somewhat disconcerted to see your comment on Jimbo's talk page regarding "being chased away" from Wikipedia. I sincerely hope that you don't let anything chase you away from our project here - you are one of the top administrators we have, and our community needs much more of your calm voice of reason, not less. I hope work allows you to edit more regularly in the future. Thanks for all you have done, and thanks in advance for all I am sure you will do here. -- Go Phightins! 18:39, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Dennis, I want to leave you some words of encouragement and good will, too. I've been watching this situation with concern, and I have a lot of trust in your good judgment. I very much hope that you will continue to feel appreciated at Wikipedia, because you truly are appreciated. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:26, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

I've got no idea what's kicked off here, but I do know that WP needs more decent articles on muscle cars, so I hope you'll be back soon to help out. Eric Corbett 18:33, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Nothing would make me happier, particularly since I have spent several hundred dollars buying books to source exactly those articles. I'm not holding my breath, however. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:49, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Not interested in the wiki places in which you've encountered difficulties, so will not read them, but I do hope you don't decide to abandon wikipedia permanently.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:40, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Funny thing, I'm losing interest in those places, too. And I wouldn't wish it on you, friend. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:02, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Have you seen this?♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:39, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oh yeah, several brought to my attention when it went live. For the record, they contacted me and asked me for an interview, they were very nice about it, but I replied back and told them that I felt it wasn't in the best interest of Wikipedia for me to do so at that time. The quotes of me in that article were from public messages I had left here on my talk page and in SPI archives, not new quotes. They actually went back a bit, so they seem to have done their homework. There is a bit more to the story than they could know and some of the explanations are a bit fuzzy, but I think they made a valiant effort to be neutral and accurate. I think it best that I don't comment on specifics, however. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 20:23, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Quick question for you Dennis

(or any talk page stalkers) If I'm at work (as I presently am) and one of my co-workers makes an account on one of the computers that also I edit from do I have to declare anything or do anything? Or do I just add {{User shared IP address}} to my userpage and that's it? I just dont want -in the future- someone to think an account created from this same IP is me or something. Apparently me talking about what I do on WP and funny things that I find on Wikipedia over the last few months has made a few of them interested in it to the point where at least one person has registered an account, I'm not sure who else has though. Anywho, I hope all is well. Thanks, —  dainomite   19:08, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• If you and the coworker don't want to disclose publicly that you work in the same place or share an IP (recommended due to outing concerns) then just forward the information to Arb so they know, then avoid the same articles. Otherwise, the IP template is adequate, again avoiding the same articles. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:27, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Thank you very much Dennis, I appreciate the swift reply good sir. Best regards, —  dainomite   02:45, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

If anyone ever deserved this ...

		The Purple Star
		I regret to say that I just today noticed the rather lengthy discussion at WT:AC, and what you have been put through lately. I assume the Arbs have some sort of reason, and that maybe, in some way, they think they might have indicated it to you. That still may not make it right, though, and I sincerely hope that this brouhaha gets resolved as soon as possible. And that you can, eventually, hope to forget about this mess. This is a hugely important matter, but that also makes it one which we can't allow to cost us good independent editors and admins like yourself. John Carter (talk) 21:22, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you. It is complicated, but suffice it to say there are some serious flaws in our existing system and I'm not willing to just ignore it anymore. I'm hoping this can get solved off-wiki in a dignified way, as I don't require dragging this ugliness through the pages here. I haven't done anything I'm ashamed of at Wikipedia, and have nothing to hide, but some of it needs to stay off the pages in the interest of the Foundation. I also don't want to politicize the situation, I just want solutions. If not, that is fine, but I'm not interested in devoting hours a day with the current situation as it is. I have plenty of other interesting things I can do, a fulfilling career and a wonderful wife. Wikipedia is just my way of giving back. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:41, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• Yeah, I think I can figure out some of what happened here. I think I have a bit of a grasp of what this about, and that's why I think it is really important here. I do hope the broader issues involved can be resolved quickly, and I kind of get the impression that things are being done to address it in some way. I just hope that happens sooner rather than later. John Carter (talk) 21:48, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• Well, so far, the only one that has shown enough interest to email me is Jimbo Wales. I have zero expectations from anyone. Que sera sera. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 21:57, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• Morning277 is complicated, I'm sure everyone knows that. Heck, I spent a few hours compiling data on potential socks (about 40 or so of them iirc) and no checkuser looked at it for a while. Some got blocked, others not, then it got archived in a massive archival. When I had put it in bullet points of why they're socks. Simple bullets. With damning behavioral evidence. My guess is that the CUs, ArbCom, and the WMF do not want to deal with this issue. Yet they don't want people who do work towards dealing with it to deal with it either. Don't take it personally :) ~Charmlet ^-talk- 22:14, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

There is also another discussion at WP:AN about wikexperts or however they spell it which deals with roughly the same problem, which is what inspires some hope in me. One case might not have done anything, two is another matter entirely. John Carter (talk) 22:19, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• Linking Morning socks are not easy, but there are two individuals are arguably the most experienced and efficient at doing so. Myself (I've blocked over 300) and User:WilliamH, who WAS a CU, a Bureaucrat and Admin. He retired out of frustration and handed in all his advanced bits. The rumors that it was unrelated to Morning are incorrect. Trust me, he is a good friend who I still talk to regularly. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:23, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

When you say only one that has shown enough interest to email me is Jimbo Wales are you referring to WMF staff? Because I emailed you and haven't heard back. Just checking in case it didn't go through.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 22:32, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually, yours and email from over a dozen other normal people have come through, all very supportive and I apreciate. I should have been more clear. I haven't received any email from Arbs, Foundation, CUs or people with advanced bits except Jimmy. Really, I'm not shocked that is part of the problem. A great many of us lowly admin seem to be concerned about the very same thing, and very confused about Arb's stance on all of this. Again, at this stage I'm not trying to raise a stink, just find a solution. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:42, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

That was my guess, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks for the clarification. I hope Jimmy steps in and helps, and I hope some from the Foundation step in and respond. This isn't exactly a run of the mill situation, and some clear support for those trying to do the right thing would be good.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 00:50, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Wishing you well

Dennis, I think I have expressed my gratitude for your work here a few times before. This seems an appropriate time to repeat my thanks. You are one of the "good guys" and I am really sorry that you are going through some tough times here. I am very concerned about these aggressive paid editing concerns, and deeply worried that you have been pressured to step aside. I hope that this matter is addressed promptly and aggressively. I wish you well. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:27, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Me, too. You have a reputation as a voice of reason here and I have some idea of how much effort you were investing in the sockfarm situation. I'm not too keen on what appears to be some sort of deployment of smoke and mirrors by people who'd rather not have you involved but seem also not to want to publicly explain their rationale. As so often, your response to a tricky situation demonstrates how your integrity shines through the murk. - Sitush (talk) 06:07, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

• • I appreciate the kind comments from you both. There are some frustrating issues here, and getting them worked out is no small task, but it is only part of the reason I've been scarce. I really am slammed with work as well, making dealing with the enwp issues even more difficult. In a way, being so busy at work is a blessing as it insures I don't waste too much time frustrated about Wikipedia. On the plus side, a couple of the things I'm doing at work are oddly interesting and challenging (for an old marketing guy / wannabe engineer). I particularly like the "it can't be done, that is impossible" aspects of it. Work, the wife and my dogs matter most and have to come first. I really do miss helping people here, however. We'll just have to wait and see what happens next. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 00:07, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

• • • I won't tell your wife (or your dogs) that you prioritized them in that order...;-) All seriousness aside, keep in mind a favorite saying of a favorite iconoclast, Goethe: "Things which matter most must never be at the mercy of things which matter least." DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 12:59, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
      • I too wish you the best of luck in real life. You have certainly accumulated enough good karma here that you deserve it :-) ~Adjwilley (talk) 17:33, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Request for comment

As you previously participated in related discussions you are invited to comment at the discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/RfC for AfC reviewer permission criteria. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:17, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

• I'm really going to try to peek in on that. I'm working all weekend at home, but that is important and deserves everyone consider the issue. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 15:22, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Would you take a look?

An IP editor, 174.56.57.138, has changed the column formatting on a bunch of articles. Unfortunately, the method he used separated the columns so far apart that they no longer are easily perceived as two halves of a single list. I explained this to the IP, and asked him to revert, then set about changing some of them back myself. When I looked again, he had not started to revert, but had instead pressed forward with making the changes, entirely ignoring my objection. At that point, I told him I would be rolling back his edits, and did so (such use of rollback is permitted, as long as a general explanation is given for the edits). The IP editor has now accused me of owning the articles (most of which aren't even on my watchlist) and has started reverting my edits.

As I told him on his talk page, I don't really care what method is used in creating columns, all I care about is the result, that the reader can easily read both halves (or all parts) of the list as parts of one whole thing. His method of splitting them to extreme sides doesn't fulfill that necessity, but he's aware (see that talk page discussion) of how to do it, he just apparently want to do it.

Would you take a look, please, and comment if you think it's appropriate? Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:12, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Why not asking in wider forum? See WP:LISTGAP, the use of {{col-break}} to split lists creates an unncessary gap in the lists.174.56.57.138 (talk) 05:21, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

The edits you are making go against the formatting of lists in about 75% of Wikipedia articles, so there is clearly no consensus for them, no matter what an obscure guideline says. Please stop. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:27, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

This is total of what WP:LISTGAP[ says:

Do not separate list items, including items in a definition list (a list made with leading semicolons and colons) or an unordered list, by leaving blank lines between them, since this causes MediaWiki to end one list and start a new one. This results in screen readers announcing multiple lists when only one was intended. Lists are meant to group elements that belong together, and breaking these groups will mislead and confuse a screen-reader user. Improper formatting can also more than triple the length of time it takes to read the list.

There is no mention of using or not using "col-break", which is standard item in formatting lists. You have misread the guideline, please stop creating lists that are visually separated and difficult to read because of it. We are here to serve our 'readers and not to act like robots. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:30, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

a {{col-break}} splits the list into two lists. it's the same situation. hopefully someone else can explain this to you in a way that you can understand. 174.56.57.138 (talk) 05:37, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Please don't be condescending, it doesn't help you. The policy you are citing to remove "col-break" from lists, a format that is used in a vast number of Wikipedia articles, does not advise not using "col-break", it only advises not using blank lines. Please stop, and read the text for what it actually says, and not what you think it says. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:40, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Do you see what it says? "Do not separate list items ... by leaving blank lines between them..." That is all this guideline is saying, the sum total of its advice. It does not say not to use "col-break", and would not be accepted if it did. Please stop. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:46, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

This dispute may be over. As of 1:19 (5:19 UTC) with his edit to Sullivan County, New York, the IP began to use the method I had suggested, which involves using "col-break" with the "gap=" parameter. Why he continued to argue against "col-break" while doing that, I can't guess. but I hope that this is now behind us. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:10, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

The {{col-begin}}/{{col-end}} technique encloses content (which might be a list, but doesn't have to be) in a single-row single-column table. What {{col-break}} does is to start another table cell on the same row, which again, can contain any content you like. Thus, if you have {{col-break}} occurring in the middle of what is otherwise a single bulleted list, the effect is to create two separate lists, which are shown side by side because of the table that encloses them.

There is another technique, which is specifically intended for enclosing lists (bulleted or numbered) - it is {{div col}}/{{div col end}} (also available via the redirects {{colbegin}}/{{colend}}). This has no marker to show where a fresh column should start - instead, the browser calculates it based upon the number of rows and columns. It can produce a similar visual appearance without semantically splitting the list: you can see one possible effect at Wikipedia:Meetup/UK#London - as entries are added, the split points adjust themselves automatically. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:54, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Redrose64; I came here to say pretty much the same thing. For what it's worth, as a screen reader user, I've never really minded the use of {{col-break}} because it splits lists that are fairly big anyway (two lists of ten items is nowhere near as big a deal as twenty lists of one item). Graham87 10:33, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I added 'tabular column breaks' to the listgap section, but something more specific would probably be good. The use of {{col-break}}, {{col-2}}, etc. isn't the worst of the listgaps, but I never really understood why people continue to use it when we have {{colbegin}}/{{colend}} and {{columns-list}}. Frietjes (talk) 14:50, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

• Although it was solved before I could even look at it, glad I could help ;-) Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 15:21, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

WikiLove Message

	Hello Dennis Brown, MissBono has given you an Irish Leprechaun, for some extra luck! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else an Irish Leprechaun! Enjoy! ----- I wish you can solve the problems as soon as possible.

P.S. This new template I made is giving me headaches because it replaces my name everytime anyone else post in the same page, but well, I am leaving you this note to prove it was me :D... Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 15:39, 18 October 2013 (UTC)