User talk:Arthur Rubin

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This user is no longer active on Wikipedia because of hostile editing environment.

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Testing the boundaries of the TPm topic ban.

This edit affects an article that is included in the Tea Party movement discretionary sanctions. It reverts a minor change that is not vandalism. As such, it is a violation of the topic ban that got him blocked for the previous week.

Now, I'm sure a few dozen "neutral" editors will jump in to find some reading of policy that allows this, or invoke WP:IAR like last time by claiming no real harm was done and Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy so its rules don't apply to admins they like. In this climate of unequal treatment, I'm sure that an ANI report will simply be closed despite its merit.

The point remains that Rubin is testing the walls of his prison cell, which is becoming a pattern. He's trying to see how far he can go and still get away with it. MilesMoney (talk) 06:46, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Arthur Rubin, and I hope that it is OK for me to comment here. MilesMoney, I think that it is nice and respectful, when you bring an issue to an editor's own talk page, that you speak to them in the first second person, such as "Hello Arthur Rubin, I have a concern about you wikilinking the New York Times in that Koch brothers article, because of your topic ban. Please be careful." Speaking of someone in the third person on their own talk page, while analogizing a topic ban to a prison cell, doesn't seem collaborative to me. So, I suggest a different approach going forward. A more polite approach. Please consider it. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:26, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

I used to address him by name, but I've stopped because he generally doesn't respond. Since I don't really expect him to answer anymore, I'd feel silly talking directly to him. Instead, when I find myself obligated to leave a comment about his behavior on his talk page, I just say it aloud to whoever might be listening.

The deeper problem here is that he keeps violating (or almost-just-barely-not-quite violating) serious policies. His refusal to respond to me is, in the big picture, a small thing. My subsequent impersonal mode of address is an even smaller one. MilesMoney (talk) 08:32, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Wrong. As usual. I requested clarification that I was allowed to revert the "Michigan Kid", even if in an article about the TPm. See User talk:Arthur Rubin/Archive 2013#Arbitration amendment request closed ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Arthur_Rubin&diff=575233137&oldid=575132947 diff). — Arthur Rubin (talk) 09:32, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Alternately, he's an administrator, dealing with a long term abuse issue and the revert was completely inert and harmless with regards to the tea party topic. Perhaps you should retract this particular one. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 09:34, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

George, I'd like to comment on two things. First, I'm sure you'll notice that Arthur Rubin didn't choose to address me by name, as you've suggested is polite. Second, I said in my original post that something would turn up that would excuse him, and this is precisely what happened. I'm not sure how I can retract an accurate prediction. Things ended as expected, so let's not beat this dead horse any longer. MilesMoney (talk) 18:38, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

I have a better idea...since MilesMoney appears to have it in for Arthur and his ongoing comments here and at various noticeboards sure look like harassment, as an admin maybe you could impose an interaction ban. MilesMoney already gave us his opinion of Wikipedia with his comment at the bottom of his talkpage anyway. Miles routinely bans others from his page, so no reason to let this trolling continue here at least.--MONGO 12:35, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Mongo, Mongo, Mongo. What am I going to do with you? You know there's only one editor banned from my talk page (and it's an abusive sock who's in SPI right now). Why can't we all just get along? MilesMoney (talk) 18:38, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Arthur Rubin, you reverted MY original edits, so don't try this wikilawyering of trying to blame it on some Michigan Kid or whatever. You've been reverting enough of my similar edits to other articles that you clearly were aware of what you were doing. Wikipedia is not the place for your hyper-partisan "editing" aka whitewashing. I suggest you try Conservapedia if you're so allergic to facts. 71.23.178.214 (talk) 17:10, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

The ones I reverted (except one, for which I apologize) appeared to be proxies for the Michigan Kid. The last one was on the page of a Democratic representative. How that could be related to the TPm is beyond me, and would probably be beyond anyone on WP:AE. I suggest you read WP:EL (and, specifically, WP:ELNO); you must justify each external link you add, whether or not through a template. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:22, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

As I said on Ellison's Talk page, CongLinks is a template of long standing, and it is absurd to demand I justify every link, every time, for every US Senator, Rep and candidate, former and current. You've been here long enough to know that, yet you persist in your wikilawyering in your quixotic attemot to conceal information in the public interest such as financial contributions and all statements made by the person on C-SPAN. All you have provided in 'rebuttal' are your twisted interpretations of WP:ELNO. Wikipedia is not intended to be a place to allow people such as yourself to spin and cherrypick facts. 71.23.178.214 (talk) 21:34, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Absurd though it may be, each and every external link must be justified, per WP:ELBURDEN which says: "Every link provided must be justifiable in the opinion of the editors for an article." Also, the WP:EL guideline says "Each link should be considered on its merits", and "As the number of external links in an article grows longer, assessment should become stricter." We cannot shoehorn multiple links into an article by way of template convenience. External links should remain individual entries. Binksternet (talk) 22:28, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Does this mean Binksternet and Arthur Rubin are the same person? Now that I think about it, there are indeed marked similarities in your posts. Isn't it against Wikipedia guidelines to pretend to be two people? 71.23.178.214 (talk) 23:22, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

LOL. Have fun with that premise. Binksternet (talk) 00:41, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Arthur Rubin. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested.
Message added 21:09, 31 December 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

All the best. —Unforgettableid (talk) 21:09, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Gun control arbitration case notice

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control/Evidence. Please add your evidence by January 19, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Bbb23 (talk) 19:24, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Ok, I just try it Franz Scheerer (Olbers) (talk) 21:34, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Arthur, for your consideration, people posting here with mentioning your edits. Prokaryotes (talk) 21:49, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Arthur rather than seek speedy delete of that page, if an SPI were to be filed that page might be interesting to reference. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 22:24, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

All the posters seem to be IPs; I'm not sure a formal cross-wiki SPI would be appropriate. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:25, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Did you notice the IPs seem to be collecting a list if wikihounding links related to climate page editors? Now ask why those IPs would produce such a collection in the user space for a login account...... Just a thought. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 08:41, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

But the editor whose (commons) talk page is being used improperly is the one who brought it to my attention here. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:20, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Arthur, do you want me to delete the page? Prokaryotes (talk) 09:51, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

It's probably a good idea, but it might be interesting to compare those edit times with those on en.Wikipedia. The "editor" is technically not blocked on Commons, so the only reason to delete the file is per the commons equivalent of WP:NOTHERE. I wonder if he's left messages on other Commons users or on other Wikis. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 12:31, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Enescot got one. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 12:36, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Ok, just let me know if you want further assistance. Prokaryotes (talk) 04:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom Clarification request notice

I've requested clarification from ArbCom regarding Gun control and that article's possible inclusion in the Tea Party movement topic ban. Malke 2010 (talk) 00:19, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

sock

Your sock is back at it. My phone is a pain to edit with. Arzel (talk) 02:03, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Got them all, I think. Anyone know the appropriate talk page template for "you're editing from a floating IP, and you've floated on, so there's no point in blocking you, but I know you're a blocked editor." — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:27, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Question about libertarianism

Hi. I notice in your BLP that you are/were a libertarian. I don't know much about it and I was wondering if you could tell me if I'm talking out of my arse in this discussion when I say, "The [image] filter is the libertarian position: it gives readers more, not less, freedom. Opposition to the filter is authoritarian - 'You'll look at dicks whether you want to or not, and if you don't like it, bugger off.'" --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 18:07, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

@Anthonyhcole:, I can't say I agree. Libertarianism only describes what government intervention should be. Wikipedia administration is not a government. You best describe a pro-freedom position (for the users), but libertarianism is neutral on actions not of a government or inspired by a government. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:15, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Interesting. So, would it be liberal-anarchist, then? Sorry, I should read up on this stuff. Can you recommend a good beginner-level summary of libertarianism? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 18:28, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Libertarians oppose the initiation of physical force against unwilling persons or their property. Whether the force comes from a government agency or a private entity does not matter. Libertarians do not consider mere information (speech or images) to be force regardless of how offensive it may be to the recipient or to a third party. However, a light so bright that it is blinding or a sound so loud that it is deafening is force.

If Wikipedia chooses not to make a filter available to its readers, you are still able to protect yourself. You could either avoid Wikipedia or put a filter of your own on your end of the connection. Since you have no right to read Wikipedia except by sufferance of Wikipedia, it can present itself in whatever form it chooses and you must take it or leave it. You may not force Wikipedia to use a filter since that would be initiating force against Wikipedia. However, if Wikipedia chooses to allow you to participate in its process of deciding whether to use a filter or not, then you are free to express your opinion (for either side) in that forum. JRSpriggs (talk) 08:56, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

There are many books which try to introduce libertarianism, but no one of them stands out in my mind. In any case, there is no scripture or official definition of libertarianism. It is a movement of people who mostly think in similar ways about political and social issues.

If you want to come at it as I did or from a philosophical perspective, I would suggest the works of Ayn Rand, especially "The Virtue of Selfishness". However, that is about Objectivism which, while related, is not quite the same thing as libertarianism. JRSpriggs (talk) 06:35, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI / DN!

You say "it has been established by consensus that Democracy Now! is rarely a reliable source." So, who's 'consensus'? What criteria has this been based on? The statement posted on the page was shared in an interview with John Raines & the rest of the Commission.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.241.60 (talk • contribs)

Check WP:RSN; Democracy Now! is sometimes reliable for the content of interviews in regard the interviewees' views, never anything more. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 03:03, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure that is still true. They have changed dramatically in the last several years, and they have become more of a professional news source that relies on multiple journalists for the POV. I agree that they once had a tendency to push a highly biased POV, but how is this any different than FoX News which pushes an extremist POV in the opposite direction? If Fox News is considered a RS, then so is Democracy Now! Viriditas (talk) 03:43, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I think we should pick one (1) left-wing outlet and deem it reliable based on the Fox News analogy, and then STOP using the Fox News analogy to validate zillions of other left-wing outlets. Whaddaya say?Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:05, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

In all honesty, I do not know if Democracy Now! is a reliable source or not. I do know, that the source has become more professional over the last few years. Viriditas (talk) 04:14, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Someone who wants to add material sourced only to DN! should bring the matter to WP:RSN. The particular source didn't look good to me, but I attribute more "articles" in web versions of publication to be "op-eds" or "commentary" (which we can only use for clear facts, not for any interpretation) than consensus here does. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 05:27, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

So according to your personal definition here of what is acceptable ("reliable for the content of interviews in regard the interviewees' views") this specific source passes the 'reliable' test, at least this time. If I revert your undo, will it stay there? It is content quoted directly from the interviewee, who is John Raines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.241.60 (talk) 08:36, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I'll have to check the material. If you want to add that Raines claims something, it's reliable for that. If you want to add that Raines did or claimed something, it's not. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:43, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

There are other sources; this for example NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 19:58, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

You know Arthur, you can do whatever the f*ck you want. I wasn't looking for a multi-day online fight with a stranger, I only wanted to add a bit of USEFUL and RELEVANT information to improve the article. There are several news articles out there (and more every day while the story is hot) explaining who John Raines is (the WP article does too). Raines read the statement he gave to Reuters, and I thought it would add value to the WP article. The ultimate source is John Raines himself. You can't get any more reliable than that when talking about the Citizens' Commission. It's politically motivated, obstructionist behavior like yours that killed Encyclopaedia Britannica, and it will kill Wikipedia too. Please, 'check the material' and undo your undo when you're good and ready. Caretakers of history who feel they need to obfuscate or rewrite it are some of the lowest individuals alive. Tell Jimmy Wales you have lost WP a regular donor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.241.60 (talk) 02:09, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

(Outdent). There's no need for the personal attacks. Leave a message on the talk page of the article asking for assistance with adding content and I'll be sure to take a look. Viriditas (talk) 02:21, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Clarification request

The clarification request involving you has been archived. The comments left by arbitrators may be helpful in proceeding further. For the Arbitration Committee, Rschen7754 04:19, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

9/11 Truth Movement

Did you mean "still relevant", as you put "still irrelevant"? TySoltaur (talk) 00:24, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Nope. That they are professors is still irrelevant. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 00:26, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Ordinal and carndinal number links

Greetings,

I'm curious why you feel the links to wiktionary:Appendix:English numerals from Cardinal number and Ordinal number are "wrong". The target page describes the English naming rules for cardinal and ordinal numbers. I thought this information might be of interest to some of the readers of these articles; certainly it will help me find it again later. -- Beland (talk) 16:15, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

It's only of indirect relevance. At present, the articles are about the mathematical concepts, and the Wiktionary section is relevant to the linguistic concepts. The wiktionary entry certainly is relevant to Ordinal number (linguistics) and Cardinal number (linguistics). — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:58, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Tracing Wikipedia articles further, it should only be at English numerals, where I placed it. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:03, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Perfect; thanks! -- Beland (talk) 22:05, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Any easy way to run statistics on wiki data to see simple growth rates.

Hi Arthur Rubin; This interesting looking graph was on the Wikipedia page for "Wikipedia" and presented some interesting data. Your user page looks like you have a basic knowledge of statistics. My present interest is in writing a short new subsection for the "Wikipedia" page about wikipedia trends in the last ten years moving into wikipedia trends in the next ten years. To do this, it would be helpful is the stats used to create this graph could be accessed historically for the last few years and then to run some basic stats on them. Nothing complicated. For what i have in mind, it would be enough to assert if the growth rates are either cyclical or linear. Only the first four columns and first eight rows would be needed. What is the easiest way to do this? (Here is the graph.)

All rated articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low ??? Total FA 1,571 2,482 2,404 1,926 180 8,563 FL 180 674 775 702 103 2,434 A 364 683 790 578 91 2,506 GA 3,210 7,289 14,673 19,379 1,741 46,292 B 16,855 32,670 53,994 67,988 22,548 194,055 C 16,771 53,767 134,460 305,534 89,473 600,005 Start 18,482 92,217 414,793 1,606,300 405,991 2,537,783 Stub 4,195 31,547 278,566 2,795,838 761,495 3,871,641 List 4,822 17,071 53,616 192,343 68,198 336,050 Assessed 66,450 238,400 954,071 4,990,588 1,349,820 7,599,329 Unassessed 124 485 1,254 18,110 420,640 440,613 Total 66,574 238,885 955,325 5,008,698 1,770,460 8,039,942 About this table

FelixRosch (talk) 18:55, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Zeitgeist related

I saw you edited this previously. It seems to me that sourcing a 'he said she said' citation to the groups themselves is out of line for this article since it is already sourced mostly to itself. Perhaps it was not a newsworthy event but it seems if possible outside sourcing is better on something like this other wise its just a trading of accusations by the players in the article of who split and why. [1] Would you care to weigh in there? Earl King Jr. (talk) 02:02, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Collatz conjecture

Good morning Arthur Rubin, I tried something new. If one start the some number s the numbers n alway can be written as

$n=a\cdot s+b$

with a,b fractional numbers. If known which operations (3n+1)/2 or n/2 is performed the new a,b can be calculated as follows.

$a'=(3/2)a\,or\,(1/2)a$

Finally a gets the value

$a_{final}=(3^{c}/2^{l})$

and as well b

$b'=(3/2)b+1/2\,\,or\,(1/2)b$

Now we can ask wether a cycle occurs

$a_{final}\,s+b_{final}=s$

or

$s={\frac {b_{final}}{a_{final}-1}}$

Using $a_{final}=(3^{c}/2^{l})$ we obtain

$s={\frac {2^{l}\cdot b_{final}}{2^{l}-3^{c}}}$

We can assume that the first operation is (3n+1)/2. Then we can derive

$b_{final}={\frac {3^{c}-1}{2^{l+1}}}$

and final get

$s={\frac {\frac {3^{c}-1}{2}}{2^{l}-3^{c}}}$

For c=1, l=2 we get s=1, Ok, that is the known cycle (1,2). But if there would be a larger cycle with c > 1 we can not find more than one odd starting point as

$s={\frac {\frac {3^{c}-1}{2}}{2^{l}-3^{c}}}$.

Now we are on target - there is no other cycle, since there must be two different odd starting points in that cycle. What do you think, Mr. Arthur Rubin? Franz Scheerer (Olbers) (talk) 13:38, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

It looks promising, although it still has no place on Wikipedia until published, and either in a peer-reviewed journal or by a recognized expert (meaning one who has published papers on the topic in peer-reviewed journals). You also need to deal with negative s. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:18, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Template:dr-make needs update to support 18th century BC decade articles

Per-decade articles exist for the decades spanning the 18th century BC, but links don't appear for them in the Centurybox template. I was able to trace the issue back to Template:dr-make but the template is locked and practically unreadable to me anyway. As you're the one who wrote/maintains it, could you update dr-make to support 18th C BC? Thanks. —coldacid (talk|contrib) 00:12, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I think I've got it. Please verify that the decadeboxes link as expected. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 03:29, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't know how long the job queue will take for it to propagate, but the earliest decade linked by {{dr-make}} is now set to 1790s BC. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 03:34, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Stavros Damianides

Hi. I have recently come under some personal attacks by admins of Wikipedia sparked by my edits on the Kastellorizo article. As a consequence you will notice partners or the same person with alternative names, or a gang, have launched personal attacks on every article i have edited. I would like you to initiate a prtoection for the page of Stavros Damianides. He was a well known Bouzouki player in Australia and in his younger days played with the best artists in Greece. He comes from a pre-internet age and few digital sources are around. He shares a similar story to Robert Johnson in the USA where he was never professionally recorded. The other matter is that despite evidence being given of well respected sources, these particular admins have repeatedly attacked and vandalized his entry. This photo will most likely also be deleted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stavros_Damianides_Hyde_Park_Festival,_Channel_9_Stage.png as was this one: http://image2.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2011/130/69704596_130517932940.jpg as was this one: http://simg.rcdn.in/images/pages/348987/stavros-damianides.jpg

the Admins who deleted this page have been monitoring my editing and have in the process destroyed one of the most significant pages of history for Perth Australia. The man not only played on his chin as shown in the picture, he was one of the best bouzouki player around. The article was sourced and confirmed because it was essentially part of Wikipedia for 10-15 years. I wish this page to be restored but also protected against similar juvenile admins. Oh and yes he did play Telaviv and Hava Nagila in Australia! Ephestion (talk) 20:31, 27 January 2014 (UTC)