Talk:Nigel Farage

Aviation accident

Should his recent accident be included in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.55.116.233 (talk) 14:56, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Photo

Prehaps a nicer picture? http://www.politics.co.uk/photo/nigel-farage-mep-$4001137$300.jpg ? --Collingwood50 (talk) 18:19, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I also find this photograph a bit strange. --87.126.5.147 (talk) 18:25, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

New Photograph Added

I have found the perfect image. Is it suitable? <non-free image removed>(CatCalledJim (talk) 17:22, 14 January 2013 (UTC))

No, we can't use non-free images of living people, see WP:NFC#UUI. January (talk) 18:01, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Arrest threat

Was he really "threatened with arrest"? Under French law, whatever a MP says in a parliamentary speech, he cannot be legally attacked for it, even if it would constitute libel or slander otherwise. I do not know whether this extends to MEP. Furthermore, the EU parliament is in Belgium and probably has some kind of extraterritoriality attached to it.

I've Googled the info, and there does not seem to be any claim to this arrest threat except from UKIP, which we can validly suspect to enjoy theatrics. Therefore, I've removed the claim, until somebody can confirm it. David.Monniaux 23:16, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've also checked with French lawyers, who researched the topic: nothing in French law prevents you from saying that a person has been convicted, then amnistied, if it is really the case (otherwise, obviously, accusing people of being criminals exposes you to a libel lawsuit, just like in the UK). I do not know where Mr Farage fished that idea. David.Monniaux 08:02, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The claim about it being illegal under French law to mention Barrot's conviction was made by (or repeated by?) the BBC in this news report: http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/2/hi/europe/4032113.stm The report says: "Mr Barrot, 67, a close ally of French President Jacques Chirac, received a suspended jail term in a party funding case in 2000, but it was automatically erased by a 1995 presidential amnesty. Under French law, no reference may be made to such a sentence, which carries no criminal record." I'll add this reference to the article. Twilde 12/4/05

The law is that no reference can be made to it in an administrative or judicial context (i.e. a judge cannot argue that somebody is a repeat offender on grounds of an amnistied conviction). David.Monniaux 09:38, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Bias

This article about Mr Farage is nt very informative. It's just a diatribe against him. The bit about James Whale is far too long and in my opinion unnecessary.

I have removed the following paragraph on the grounds that it is untrue: "However, he has not improved the party's electoral performance. On May 3rd 2007, during the British local elections, UKIP was beaten not only by the Conservative Party and the Labour Party, but also by the BNP and Mebyon Kernow." While it is true that UKIP's performance in the 2007 local elections was unspectacular, and that they won fewer council seats nationwide than the BNP or mebyon Kernow, UKIP's performance was certainly better than in the previous three years, ie before Farage became leader. Therefore it is not true to say "he has not improved the party's electoral performance." Therefore I've deleted the first sentence. However, the sole point if the second sentence was to justify the first (which it fails to do), so I've deleted that too. Twilde 18:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

In my view, I believe its unbalanced how the article on Nigel Farage has a section called "Controversies and whistleblowing". The articles on David Cameron, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Green leader Natalie Bennett do not have any sections claiming controversies or whistleblowing.(CatCalledJim (talk) 17:03, 10 October 2012 (UTC))

Farage would not be Farage if he didn't stir things up. I believe he is proud of his behaviour towards Prince Charles and Van Rompuy. Every newspaper article is required to "include right of reply" and so long as this is fully and adequately covered there should be no problem. I would support a proposal to move these headings back into into "political career". JRPG (talk) 18:00, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I strongly agree with everything you have said, especially in the proposal to move the headings into the "Political career" section. One question, how can we reach consensus in order to do this?(CatCalledJim (talk) 18:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC))

I'm on my way out shortly ..or I would have simply done it as per WP:BRD quoting Wikipedia criticism -Avoid sections and articles focusing on "criticisms" or "controversies". I can't believe anyone will object if all the text is left in and the sections are moved. Please feel free to do it -and blame me -or I'll do it tomorrow :) JRPG (talk) 18:59, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Changes look good to me. You've improved tha encyclopedic value of this article. JRPG (talk) 18:04, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Dispute over "Former Leader of UKIP"

To avoid an edit war, best bring this issue to the talk page. Someone within the past few weeks added "Former" to "Leader of UKIP" in the infobox. An understandable edit and I can see the reasons for it. However, it is a firm convention for all articles on politicians that we never say "Former" before the title of a political office in an infobox. We do not, for example, say on George Bush's article infobox that he is the "Former President of the United States". Such an identification is completely redundant because the dates demonstrate he's no longer the President, and that is the case here. The dates on the infobox clearly show that Farage is no longer the leader, as does the fact that the word "Incumbent", which is used on infoboxs for this type of article, is not there either. An IP address recently reverted my removal of "Former", and I place money that my reversion of that revert will itself be reverted as well. So, I ask for a clear community message that not saying "Former" is indeed a convention for this type of article. Thank you. HonouraryMix (talk) 00:37, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Additional, having "Former Leader of UKIP" doesn't work on another level. Any political title, along with dates, on an infobox represents a political office; hence why we have the words "In office" followed by the dates of service. There is such a political office as "Leader of UKIP", but there's no political office called "Former Leader of UKIP." HonouraryMix (talk) 00:53, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. -Rrius (talk) 01:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Me too. Hekerui (talk) 02:04, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

As this was the sum of the editor's first contribution I think you were dealing with a random vandal. However this discussion is a useful clarification in case someone tries it again in the future. Road Wizard (talk) 08:08, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

A fine needs explanation

"Farage was fined about £2700 by the parliament for making the speech" Isn't it a bit weird that a parliament actually fines its members for what they say in parliament (even if they insult the president)? Could someone elaborate on this? (like "under provision X of the Rules of Parliament blah, Farage was..") Joepnl (talk) 04:36, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

He wasn't fined for making the speech, but a penalty was obviously applied for breach of parliamentary rules. I haven't seen a published reference to the exact rule he breached so, without a reliable source, I don't think we should specify the rule in the article. It does, however, seem likely that he was penalised in accordance with Rule 153 (3a) and (3b) for breach of rule 9 of the Rules of Procedure of the European Parliament. --Boson (talk) 13:56, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Was it that bit where he called Van Rompuy a balding bum boy from Belgium? Fined for excessive alliteration, I fear. A clear breach of EU regulations. --OhNoPeedyPeebles (talk) 22:36, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Popular culture mention: Should it be included ?

I came here after seeing the most-recent "Autotune the News". So far there are 11, and they are funny and popular. This guy was mentioned (what's his name again...)

So anyways, I came here looking for some context to his comments (watch the youtube video, link below) in order to gain some sense of what he meant, etc... as the video makes him look pretty extreme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpYIKF1wuyE 99.137.251.249 (talk) 23:13, 11 May 2010 (UTC)Jonny Quick

Major template issue

The bottom of the page is a mess. When editing the bottom section, it says 'Warning: Template include size is too large. Some templates will not be included.' I have no idea what this means nor how to fix the problem. —Half Price 17:14, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

This is still a problem. —Half Price 11:20, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Still a problem. I want to correct the introduction to highlight that Farage received serious injuries according to the AAIB report and the Telegraph article. JRPG (talk) 19:28, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Problem fixed: there were three large teplates {{Members of the European Parliament 1999–2004}}, {{Members of the European Parliament 2004–2009}}, and {{Members of the European Parliament 2009–2014}}, each of which transcluded 700 or so links. I have removed these templates, and will nonminate them for deletion. This is what categories and lists for, and it's an abuse of templates to use them for insanely huge sets like this. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:17, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah! The problem had to be simple. They are ridiculously huge! —Half Price 20:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Herman Van Rompuy letters of support.

user 82.38.37.20 has contributed to the Herman Van Rompuy article and says he received many letters of support. If he can provide a link to this, I'll happily help add it to the Farage article. JRPG (talk) 21:01, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Nigel-Farage-leader-of-Uk-001.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

	An image used in this article, File:Nigel-Farage-leader-of-Uk-001.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do?
	Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Wikipedia, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 11:33, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Views on the Euro

I note the comments by the IP who removed my primary sources tag, albeit with a proper edit summary. In reply, it is self evident that Farage is the World's leading authority on his own beliefs, nor do I challenge the accuracy of the youtube footage. My objection is that someone other than a reliable source has selected the speeches and an indication of their notability and the critique of his ideas necessary to provide a balanced section is missing. Whilst the section was written in good faith by a new contributor, it falls well below the standards required for a neutral point of view. The section is worth having and I believe this BBC Question time program meets the requirements. I intend to replace the text in the section using this source. Please don't remove tags without discussing. JRPG (talk) 20:24, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

2010 Buckinghamshire election

I just made a quick edit to this section as I found it very confusing - it described John Stevens, the candidate who came 2nd ahead of Nigel Farage in the 2010 General Election, as a "former Conservative MEP (defected to LibDems)". This confused me as I at first assumed he had actually stood as a LibDem, which would be against the usual convention of giving speakers a clear run (since UKIP had already decided not to follow this convention, I thought the LibDems might have as well). But Stevens definitely stood as an independent. I could find no proof he has since defected to the LibDems (nor is such a defection mentioned on his own wikipedia page at the moment), just that he left the Tories to form the now-defunct Pro-Euro Conservative Party. Hope this is ok with everyone! Pitt the elder (talk) 11:51, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Photograph Upgrade

I find that photograph of Nigel Farage is out of date. (E.P. Davies (talk) 16:44, 12 November 2011 (UTC))

Can you supply a more recent one, that is also freely licensed? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 16:49, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

I took that photo in summer 2009. It doesn't seem awfully long ago to me. Incidentally, it was around lunchtime on the Sunday of the Lord's Test. No wonder Nigel is smiling - England were doing very well. See 2009_Ashes_series#Second_Test. --Dweller (talk) 22:21, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Yea, it's 3 years ago now and lets be honest he's aged a fair bit. That's not a bad thing though, he now looks the right age and is looking well for it. The other 3 leaders look as if they could do with going back to school to be honest! I own a picture where he's looking serious, no silly grins or anything. People have a habbt of catching him mid-laugh for some reason!

The question is, how do I upload it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheffno1gunner (talk • contribs) 11:34, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

If, as you say, you own the picture (i.e. you took it yourself with your own camera), and you are willing to freely license it, then you would upload it at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UploadWizard --Demiurge1000 (talk) 11:40, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

New photograh added — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheffno1gunner (talk • contribs) 11:59, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Racism

I've reverted the addition of a section titled "Racism", which contained the quote "Farage reportedly once told Alan Sked that UKIP "will never win...[racist terminology withheld]"", as that statement is stronger than the source, The Guardian, will support. It implies that The Guardian reported it as fact, when what it actually reported was an allegation made by someone else. Also, titling the section "Racism" is synthesis. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:54, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Verhofstadt speech

Incumbent UK Party Leaders

First party Second party   Leader David Cameron Ed Miliband Party Conservative Labour Leader since 6 December 2005 25 September 2010   Third party Fourth party   Nigel Farage Leader Nigel Farage Nick Clegg Party UKIP Liberal Democrats Leader since 12 September 2006 18 December 2007

Shouldn't we, somehow, mention the Verhofstadt speech in this article? 92.231.206.30 (talk) 08:22, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Is it discussed in independent reliable sources as being a significant event in Farage's life or career? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:41, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

There is a problem with us chosing specific speeches as the selection process is effectively wp:editorialising. Different of course if it's a program which includes the speech where other viewpoints can be put forward so I agree with Demiurge1000. JRPG (talk) 23:36, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Head and Shoulders Photo

We seriously need to get our hands on a decent head and shoulders photo of Nigel Farage. We do not have an appropriate picture, we have full body shots, we have shots of him laughing or holding a pint etc but no straight faced professional looking portrait! He appears in election boxes on a number of pages and we just don't have an appropriate picture! We want something that will fit in with the images of his competitors in this info box>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is a problem on the folowing pages:

• European Parliament election, 2014 (United Kingdom)
• European Parliament election, 2009 (United Kingdom)

Depending on how UKIP perform in the coming months and years this could also cause a problem for:

• United Kingdom local elections, 2013
• United Kingdom local elections, 2014
• Next United Kingdom general election

Have managed to crop an existing image that is licensed for editing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sheffno1gunner (talk) 04:04, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Farage in November 2012

• Noticed a user removed that image today and replaced it with one from 2008, which isn't ideal. I searched Flickr to see what else was available and found this, which is recent - is this suitable? January (talk) 19:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I don't like the new image.'s not great for an election box if I'm honest. The tie is far too informal, he shouldn't be smiling like that, he's got a tatty noticeboard behind him and perhaps worst of all, he's wearing his pin-striped suit, people will automatically think used car salesman! Especially when combined with the cheeky grin, it's not the image you want to put out to people whose trust you are asking for! The only way this image meets what I would deem to be the criteria for a fit and properhead and shoulders image, is that it actually includes his head and shoulders! I understand mine's a tad blurry but it's less noticeable in an election box and actually looks reasonable.

However a better current image has been suggested! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think we should only use this image from 2012 onwards, as he has aged a bit since 2009, so do not change the 2009 info box Sheffno1gunner (talk) 18:17, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

File:Nigel Farage London.jpeg is non-free and can't be used in this article or the election articles (or even on this talk page, I've had to remove it). January (talk) 18:28, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Ah right ok, I was unaware of this, it was another user, CatCalledJim who informed me of this image. I was unaware he'd not got the liscensing right, my apologiesSheffno1gunner (talk) 18:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Just to confirm I do not support use of the Basingstoke image, it is not suitable for my above reasoning!Sheffno1gunner (talk) 18:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

We have a problem, it is impossible to get a suitable picture for election boxes, this is becoming a real problem when it comes to acts of sabotage!Sheffno1gunner (talk) 01:13, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Nigel Farage/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 14:35, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I'll be glad to take this review. Thanks in advance for your work on it. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:35, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

On review, this appears to me to be a bit of a premature nomination.

• The "citation needed" tag in the lead needs to be addressed.
• Also, major information should not be presented in the lead not discussed in more detail in the body.
• All figures and statistics need to be sourced with inline citations, such as the electoral results in the final section.
• All quotations need inline citations, such as in "Views on the Euro" or "Joseph Daul"
• It seems unbalanced to provide a long block quotation from Buzek but not from the article's subject in the Van Rompuy section; this is a minor WP:NPOV issue
• Numerous short sections are discouraged by WP:LAYOUT, as are one-sentence paragraphs; this will need to be reorganized.
• Language like "Farage is presently the leader of" should be rewritten per WP:REALTIME.
• The lead should be no more than 4 paragraphs per WP:LEAD

You can see the full GA criteria at WP:GA?. Since there's substantial work to be done, I'm not listing the article at this time, but I hope that you'll continue work on this one and consider renominating in the future once these problems have been addressed. Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:43, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Leadeship style/MEP resignations and defections

He has been described as 'totalitarian'. Leadership Style(Coachtripfan (talk) 10:37, 13 September 2013 (UTC))

I don't think this is the sort of thing that could be included in the article: one single jab from the ex-deputy leader isn't really that notable. — Richard BB 11:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Herman Van Rompuy incident

I suggest adding in a sentence regarding Farage's remark that Belgium is "pretty much a non-country." The statement by Jerzy Buzek refers to this, but at present the section doesn't include it. Feel free to share your thoughts on this contribution. Best, O lockers (talk) 22:45, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

RT

I found this source recently and I plan to incorporate it into the article when I have time: Nigel Farage's relationship with Russian media comes under scrutiny, The Guardian. Given the negative nature I thought I'd give people advance warning. --Trappedinburnley (talk) 18:09, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Related: Nigel Farage is a buffoon for admiring Vladimir Putin, The Telegraph --Trappedinburnley (talk) 13:36, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

And the "Putin bit" is properly presented in the BLP. BLPs are not a place to show how evil any person is, but to neutrally and in a manner compliant with policy to write an encyclopedic biography. Collect (talk) 16:22, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

UKIP and the European Parliament -'illegal' copies of DVD.

Hi Collect, take it as read we both understand & are both committed to following wp:blp rules. You say illegal implies a far worse crime than the offence admitted but illegal doesn't necessarily imply a crime at all, just any breach of rules. Here is a dictionary definition -contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulation which covers infraction of a trading practices code. Here is a Guardian article referencing "illegal copies" & all proprietary DVDs I've bought in the UK have dire warnings about "illegal copies". Unfortunately the changes now describe perfectly legal copying, Trading Standards investigated something again perfectly legal & then inexplicably Farage "admitted the offence" -what offence? Could you simply restore illegal & no harm done? Any other comments welcome. Regards JRPG (talk) 21:30, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

The source specifically avoided the use of "illegal." Where a source avoids a word, it is likely there is a reason why the word was not used. It is not up to us to assert an act was "illegal" unless a reliable secondary source makes the claim. Doing something against a trade rule is an "offence" -- jaywalking is an "offence". Failure to sign a form is an "offence". A great many things may be an offence - but the judgement of "illegal" goes one full step beyond what the source stated. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:22, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Allegations of "facism" and singing hitler youth songs at school?

I'm surprised these allegations aren't included - http://www.scribd.com/doc/169454715/Nigel-Farage-1981-school-letter I very much doubt whether any other party leader's wiki page wouldn't include references to school activities of such an extreme nature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.30.85 (talk) 19:56, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Read WP:BLP. And we do not include such allegations because they may well cause harm to the person - especially allegations not grounded in fact. Collect (talk) 23:52, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2013 local elections - partial / biased information - same old political spin

"In May 2013 Farage led UKIP to its best-ever performance in a UK election. The party took 23% of the vote in the local elections, putting it only 2 points behind the governing Conservative party and 9 points ahead of the Liberal Democrats, and winning it 147 council seats."

This fails to include the corresponding information about the Labour party, which had /better/ results (points, seats) than UKIP.

Usual political spin. Plus ça change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.144.184.32 (talk) 17:16, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

What would actually be political spin is if we added that information. It'd be like saying "yea, sure they did good, but not nearly as good as these guys". It is totally irrelevant, unnecessary, unencyclopedic bias and can be found elsewhere on wikipedia in article already linked on the page.

Reference to press officer in Andrew Neal's interview

Collect , your edit summary "press officer" last I looked is a "living person" and is not Farage, there is no reason to include this tidbit in the Farage BLP" is beyond my comprehension, please enlighten! There are some 50 people who are alive who are referenced in this BLP AND who are not Farage and nothing in wp:BLP forbids this. The paragraph is relevant as Neil was criticising UKIP's behavior as unacceptable -giving by way of an example the words chosen by the party spokesman and asking Farage as party leader for a response. FWIW I've heard much worse words than bitch used but feel free to replace it with something more anodyne even though wp:NOTCENSORED applies. As you've written it the paragraph is complete and utter nonsense, please check! Farage appears to be objecting to Neal's wrong choice of the words "unprofessional, amateur and even unacceptable" Please make a proper summary fit to go in the encyclopedia -as I believe it was before you reverted -or provide cogent reasons for not doing so. Regards JRPG (talk) 22:09, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

All references to specific living persons must meet WP:BLP and WP:RS. In the case at hand, we need a strong source for the claim that the press officer used the word "bitch" and that it is specifically relevant to this BLP as I found no sign that Farage used the term "bitch." [1] Nigel Farage calls on Conservative MPs to join UKIP is the source given for the claim. That source does not remotely support the claim that any specific person used the term "bitch" at all. As the source does not support the claim, the claim fails. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:31, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Mishae Firstly Greetings. Could you have a look at your edit of 28 March 2014 at 19:37? It archived a number of sources but in the case of Andrew Neal's interview the archive did not contain the interview on which this discussion is based. Could you check if it has affected anything else? Regards JRPG (talk) 20:36, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@Collect: and @JRPG: In my case, the archive doesn't archive videos, if so, its not my fault. In either case, readers will look into an original text either way. The only reason why we archive links is so that link rot will be less likely to occur. For now, I wont reinsert the archive but, the archive is not to blame. As I said earlier, it wasn't intended for videos. However, its presence is a must, read this link on archiving.--Mishae (talk) 21:53, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@Mishae: Thanks for the response, Mishae. I'm now aware of the restriction & will look at the link rot article tomorrow. Regards JRPG (talk) 22:51, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

@JRPG: I reinserted the archive since it goes with our rules. However, instead of removing it, click the original link and you will be transformed to the article with the video. That goes for other users here who are in this discussion.--Mishae (talk) 23:01, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

This article is not about Nigel Farage

This article appears to be a collection of journalistic anecdotes which promote isolationist policies. Shouldn't it be an article about a man called Nigel Farage, instead of being a vehicle for promoting UKIP? Surely that's not what an encyclopedia is for. Francis Hannaway (talk) 07:46, 6 July 2014 (UTC)