Talk:Eruca sativa

Excessive reference to U.S. presidents

I came to this Wiki entry to read about cultivation of rocket. Much to my dismay this article refers to U.S. presidents, and their supposed constituents. Enough already. Who cares if Hilary Clinton's supporters drink wine or beer? Who cares if Obama mentioned rocket in a stump speech. Ridiculous. America's fixation on their presidents is sickening. Everything imaginable is related to their stupid presidents. What a loser country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.71.29.7 (talk) 15:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Excessive use of "it"

Looks like the article's author has fallen into the trap of writing the name of the subject once and then using the word "it" for every subsequent reference. I'm not going to bother to correct it (pardon the pun).

71.241.75.45 (talk) 22:08, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

In other "news," it appears that arugula is related to the radish. I wonder if the chemical composition of their pepperyness are similar? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.101.228.101 (talk) 00:27, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Names

What is arugula?

In Latin it's eruca; in French, roquette; in northern Italian, rucola; in southern Italian, rughetta or ruchetta; in English, 'rocket'. Chameleon 23:51, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

... and Rauke in german. -- Lightkey 06:02, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

... and arúgula in Spanish. — Pekinensis 13:29, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

... no, actually, in Spanish it's rúcula, not arúgula. Arugula comes into English directly from Italian, not Spanish. The fact that the French form won out in Commonwealth English was actually a later development; the American "arugula" is, in fact, one of many "archaisms"...Early Modern English words preserved in American English that have since been supplanted in Commonwealth English by other words or forms. Tomer^talk 04:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

... neither...not. The Spanish original name (in Spain) is neither rúcula (this is a very recent snobby imported name from the Italian original, from those who rediscovered the rocket in fashion cooking and do not know the Spanish name, and it is now widely used as the commercial designation in the markets) not arúgula; the Spanish traditional name is 'oruga' (written like caterpillar); it comes clearly from he Latin name Eruca. The word Oruga for Eruca vesicaria (Eruca sativa) and the plant qualities and properties appears already in many old garden and medicine books, from the time of Charles V ad Philipp II (16th Century, i.e.: Andrés Laguna's version of Dioscorides, or Gregorio de los Ríos' Garden Agriculture); I use to grow oruga, and I have seen and collect it wild in different locations in Spain, and in some places in the countryside it is still consumed and appreciated by the country people. After living sometime in the US and Canada, I have seen those name variations apparently coming form Spanish of Central America -which of course is as much respectable and valid as traditional Spanish from Spain-, only that the name 'rúcola' is as well a recent introduction there. Other related wild plants with a mustard-close taste are consumed in Portugal, Spain, Italy: mainly Diplotaxis tenuifolia, Diplotaxis muralis, Diplotaxis erucoides, which are also known as oruga silvestre (wild rocket) and jaramago. See the main scientific work on Iberian flora: Flora Ibérica. Real Jardín Botánico de Madrid/Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas http://www.rjb.csic.es/floraiberica/floraiberica/texto/pdfs/04_072_60_Eruca.pdf and http://www.rjb.csic.es/floraiberica/floraiberica/texto/pdfs/04_072_57_Diplotaxis.pdf

... should the name of the entry be changed to "Rocket (herb)", if "Rocket" is the International English name and "Arugula" specifically the American? -- 128.118.112.94 04:26, 20 Jul 2004 (CET)

...As explained above, "rocket" is the "innovation", not "arugula". Tomer^talk 04:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe not "(herb)". How about "(plant)" or "(food")? — Chameleon My page/My talk 07:54, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Redirects are cheap.  :-) Tomer^talk 04:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The Italian term is rucola, not arugula, which is not an archaism at all, but a recent American coinage (it appeared first in the New York Times in 1960, according to the Oxford English Dictionary). ---The user formerly known as JackLumber 22:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Why is the cheese burek described as "squeaky"? Is this vandalism? How is a cheese squeaky? Aaroncorey (talk) 17:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Aaron- I don't know about the burek mentioned, but I've heard of squeaky cheese somewhere before, so I did a quick search. A couple results:

• http://www.essortment.com/food/squeakycheesec_scbs.htm
• Leipäjuusto

-Eric ^talk 17:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation

I added this page to the Rocket (disambiguation) page (because I couldn't find this when looking for "rocket").

... Well, it's a bit esoteric, but I guess if you really feel that way... Jfiling 23:23, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

That sounds like a grand idea. Tomer^talk 04:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I also added a disambiguation clause, from Wild rocket, in the lead section, as superficially the leaves of these plants can be mistaken, and I managed to get direct to the this page by following the search prompts without actually encountering the Rocket disambiguation page. Rocket_(disambiguation)#Plants might be a more suitable destination for the link. Trev M  ~  18:37, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

This article appears to refer to two different plants. One a woody plant growing up to 1 metre height, with substantial flowers and the other a soft leafy vegetable commonly used in salads. They do not appear to be the same plant. Dtohjam (talk) 00:54, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

How to grow Arugula

The main article could be improved if there were a word or two on growing conditions, how long it takes for a seed to germinate, and what kind of soil is best to plant it in. The packet says the seeds take 45 days to grow to maturity. But if I want to pick the seeds for a mild homemade mustard, not as biting as real mustard, how much longer will it take for it to bloom, and then for the blooms to go to seed?

I just bought a packet of Arugula seeds for $1.49 and was wondering if it would cross with the mustard I planted thirty years ago, and allowed to go to seed. From what I understand, all species of Brassica tend to cross with one another, whether it is Brussel Sprouts, Turnips, Cabbage, Cauliflower or Mustard. They crossbreed with one another, and lose their special characteristics, and become very average. It has been 30 years since I planted mustard, and it went to seed, and crossed with some of the local Brassica weeds found in the foothills of Portland, Oregon. (About a year ago, I chopped up some wild brassica, cooked it in the microwave, and added some cheese for flavoring. It gave me a horrendous stomach ache like you wouldn't believe. I writhed in agony for the rest of the day, but the next day I was okay. The same thing happens when I eat raw mustard, and don't cook it well enough.)198.177.27.12 01:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. Please register for an wikipedia username and post. I think the question needs to be asked if you were actually eating Arugula. I can imagine mistaking a similar looking weed for the real thing. Also, are you able to eat turnips ok? Nodekeeper 08:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

John McCain reference incorrect

It wasn't McCain who questioned the price of arugula in Iowa, but Barack Obama. At minimum the reference should be corrected and dated, but for some reason I don't understand "edit the page" doesn't have the reference.

Which is I would think better than intruding an American political campaign gaffe into this article.

Could someone fix this? Lonnie Nesseler 14:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I deleted that niche market/Obama bit (again). Not sure how relevant it is for the article, but it definitely doesn't belong in the intro. The Obama > McCain change was just someone clowning around. -Eric ^talk 15:57, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

That gaffe was the first time I had ever heard of arugula, and the reason I looked it up (for what it's worth). Fishal (talk) 17:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I too redeleted the niche market blather. This attempt to portray arugula as an aloof and elitist vegetable is outlandishly political and irrelevant. I think it's an effort by anti-arugula factions to decrease the popularity of this healthy and tasty plant. These same people did this to cannabis in the 1930s, and now this. In any case, unless you have real market statistics to back up what you put here, don't even try to pull these shenanigans. MisplacedFate1313 (talk) 16:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I just restored the "niche market" sentence, after reading in the Economist about his "arugula-flavoured" politics. Having no idea what arugula was, I came to Wikipedia. Knowing that arugula is another name for rocket (which I am partial to myself) didn't really help me understand its relevance to US politics! Akiyama (talk) 11:52, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I understand your puzzlement. Obama is being painted as "elitist" because apparently he enjoys arugala. I didn't know what it was either. I figured it was some kind of fancy drink or something, so I came here to find out what it was. It's salad. Go figure. --Briefer (talk) 18:42, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I added a reference to Obama and arugla to follow the niche market sentence. The reference is based on this url:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/134398, and many others. I don't know how to add the reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geneven (talk • contribs) 12:25, 23 August 2008 (UTC) Geneven (talk) 12:40, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I see that my reference to Obama was removed. It isn't a matter of courtesy to explain why? As you can see from the above, this is a current topic of conversation, and as you can also see from the above, some people think that McCain mentioned the stuff. Why isn't this a proper topic to mention? What was wrong with my entry?Geneven (talk) 20:02, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll tell you what's wrong with your entry: what does your president have to do with rocket? Why does your countries' presidential political arguments and trivia, the endless liberal vs conservative bickering and posturing, have to even be forced onto a Wiki entry about a salad green, that being rocket? In my opinion take your Obama rocket trivia and enter it on the Obama Wiki page. It is most inappropriate to have it on the rocket page. If you have something constructive to offer regarding rocket, e.g. cultivation tips, eradication of pests that infest rocket, or even ways to use it in the kitchen–then please enter them here. The fact that your country is endlessly fixated on your presidents and what they say doesn't mean the rest of the world gives a toss what your president says about rocket. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.71.29.7 (talk) 16:06, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I see that my polite question about why my entry was deleted doesn't even merit a reply. Thanks a lot.76.173.15.226 (talk) 18:39, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia article about a leafy green. The fact that a food item makes the American news (especially in the inane way it did in this case) does not mean we have to make note of it on Wikipedia. -Eric ^talk 03:16, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for finally explaining why my addition was deleted. Of course, we do not "have" to make reference to this in Wikipedia -- which articles "have" to include anying in Wikipedia? In this case, several people, me included, and others above, came to Wikipedia for further explanation of this political phenomenon. But Wikipedia cannot mention it? This was also discussed in the Economist, by the way, but of course Wikipedia has much higher standards than the Economist.76.173.15.226 (talk) 02:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. "Arugala eating" is competing with "latte sipping" as a short-hand for "out of touch elitist" in U.S. political culture. (Note that neither signifier has much to do with the actual market/demographic data for the products in question.) This may be a passing thing, inspired by Obama's "gaffe" (“Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?”), but it seems to have achieved some critical mass separate from that specific news peg. Clconway (talk) 21:36, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello, I deleted all references to U.S. presidents on this rocket page. When I read the Obama, Media Matters, and Economist comments on this rocket Wiki entry I became thoroughly disgusted with my countries endless blathering about their stupid presidents, what Obama says about rocket, and why in the world anybody in the rest of the world would care. Let's face the facts: this is a Wiki entry on rocket: its history, its cultivation, how it is prepared. To mention what a U.S. president said about rocket in Iowa, or wherever he mentioned it is trivial rubbish. Further, the USA's arrogant assumption that the rest of the world who uses Wiki to read about rocket would care what their president says about rocket is beyond ridiculous, and is most self centered. Obama comments belong on the Obama page. To politicize the rocket page with Obama quotes is most inappropriate as it politicizes and distracts from the main focus: rocket. So sick of U.S. presidential politics infecting everything, even a leafy green entry on Wiki must have Obama rubbish comments on it. Most inappropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.71.29.7 (talk) 16:21, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Canadians use 'rocket' lettuce as well!

I have never, ever hear do of arugula lettuce or salad in Canada and I am PURE Canadian...we use 'rocket' in our grocery stores. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.225.224.18 (talk) 09:45, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

That's cool. I'm sure you're proud of how American you are not... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.201.174.24 (talk) 15:43, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Media Matters for America

I notice that the section on Obama's reference arugula was tagged, apparently because it cited Media Matters for America (a liberal site), as possibly not relevant. This edit was made by an editor, Thagor Orlando, who is tagging or removing all wikipedia references to MMFAm as POV.

However, since the reference is in refutation of a conservative claim, it seems to me both relevant and not POV, as it allows a reader to see both sides of the argument and decide for themselves. Someone quoted this on the editors own page -- a

* Acceptible Use MMfA is clearly an organization with a political slant. However, that does not mean that their opinion cannot be quoted in a Wikipedia article. Political-based articles routinely cite sources which have a political stance (e.g., NRA, PETA, NAACP). There have been at least 25 reliable source discussions about MMfA, and the general conclusion of the RS forums is that the organization cannot be used as a source of news, but that their opinion can be cited. The text cited above makes it clear that MMfA is a liberal organization, and that the comment in question is their opinion.

I am simply going to add the description "liberal" to the media matters reference, so that it is clear this is from a POV source -- just as the attacks on Obama came from a "conservative" source. This is not POV but is known as "reporting the conflict" and it seems to me is perfectly acceptable.

For more on this see: Thomas Sowell#Mediation and Arbitration? Mballen (talk) 06:48, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Arugula as marker for upward mobility, multiculturism, elitism

I deleted this paragraph: “Before the 1980s arugula was comparatively little known in the English-speaking world outside of immigrant Italian communities and among devotees of Italian cooking, but by 2006 the green had become a marker for culinary sophistication, upward mobility, multiculturalism, and even elitism. Vanity Fair writer and editor David Kamp gave his book about the spread of American mass-media culinary sophistication the title: The United States of Arugula: How We Became a Gourmet Nation (Clarkson Potter, 2006).”

after corresponding with the author of the citation and determining that the source was misrepresented (my apologies to Mr. Kamp for offending with the comment about not having read his book):

Dear Mark:

Thanks for your note, and for pointing out that Wikipedia entry, of which I wasn't aware. Your intuition is correct: I don't dwell that heavily in the book on arugula itself. I do talk a bit about how it, along with radicchio, became a marker of status in the 1980s and 90s—a salad green for those who wished to seem in the know—but the gloss presented by the Wikepedia person(s) is indeed an overreach.

Yours, writing as politely as possible to someone who has announced, “I haven’t read your book,”

David Kamp

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 12:52 PM, wrote: Dear Mr. Kamp:

I am trying to determine the authenticity of a position that has been attributed to you on the Wikipedia article on arugula:

“Before the 1980s arugula was comparatively little known in the English-speaking world outside of immigrant Italian communities and among devotees of Italian cooking, but by 2006 the green had become a marker for culinary sophistication, upward mobility, multiculturalism, and even elitism. Vanity Fair writer and editor David Kamp gave his book about the spread of American mass-media culinary sophistication the title: The United States of Arugula: How We Became a Gourmet Nation (Clarkson Potter, 2006).”

I haven’t read your book, but knowing the tendencies of some Wikipedia editors to overreach in their interpretation of a source and quote out of context, I would guess that you didn’t actually put that much emphasis on arugula itself in isolation as a marker of upward mobility, elitism, etc. I was wondering if you could confirm whether or not the above passage accurately portrays your position on arugula?

Sincerely, Mmyers1976 (talk) 20:06, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

The book was entitled "The United States of Arugula" and even if (in the words of the author, quoted above) the book didn't put "that much emphasis on arugula itself" it cannot be denied that the book was about the spread of culinary sophistication in the USA, as symbolized by the eponymous salad green, arugula, previously known mostly in Italian American neighborhoods. As the author himself acknowledges: .

I do talk a bit about how it [i.e., arugula], along with radicchio, became a marker of status in the 1980s and 90s—a salad green for those who wished to seem in the know. [my emphasis]

This is a fact, even if it annoys some people. I don't think the editor is justified in taking it out, though, if it seems like "overreach" perhaps it could be toned down a bit. (How it can be said to be "overreach" when the author used it as the title of the book, I can't quite grasp). To me it is very interesting that arugula became an issue in the Barrack Obama campaign. Every bit as interesting as that it was planted in monastery gardens on the orders of Charlemagne, mentioned in a poem by Virgil, and considered for millennia an aphrodisiac.

One could tone it down by changing the heading to "Arugula as a marker for status" (to use the author's own words). Many authors would welcome having a citation in wikipedia!Mballen (talk) 22:54, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Once again -- Mr. Kamp may have mentioned arugula only glancingly in the text of his book, but apparently his publishers thought Arugula Nation was a selling title for this book, for the reasons mentioned. I repeat, this makes it overreach to delete the section about Arugula and Obama, a topic that was so widely talked about in the media during his election campaign, that several readers have mentioned right here on this page that it was those references that caused them to look up arugula on wikipedia in the first place.

Now, just this week (February 6, 2014), the conservative National Review has published a piece by Alec Torres called "Costco, The Arugula of Chain Stores", because Obama, who is in favor of raising the minimum wage, recently praised Costco for offering employees wages above the legal minimum.

It is entirely proper for wikipedia to include this information, which, among other things, is both factual, in the news, and quite interesting. To do otherwise amounts to censorship. Of course, I agree that a neutral, non-POV tone should be preserved. But facts is facts. Google also Steve Martin arugula "My Blue Heaven" "Arugula is a vegetable". Why all this makes some readers uncomfortable truly mystifies me. They don't like it that their fellow Americans talk about their presidents??? 20:10, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Origin of name 'Arugula' used in America

The American name Arugula is non-standard Italian (possibly Neapolitan); the standard Italian name is "rucola". According to John Schwenkler, the Oxford English Dictionary dates the first appearance of the word "arugula" to Craig Claiborne's May 24, 1960, New York Times column, Food News: "A Green by Any Name; Pungent Ingredient Is Cause of Confusion for City Shopper Arugula – or Rocket – Is the Secret of Experts' Salads". Unfortunately, only the abstract is visible in this NY Times archive link: http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30C12F83E5916738DDDAD0A94DD405B808AF1D3&scp=1&sq=arugula&st=p

Schwenkler speculates:

It’s quite possible, though, that this term was later seized on by a marketing team, and humble wild rocket was made into the fancier-sounding quasi-delicacy (and the charge of consuming it into the all-purpose populist slur) that it is today. But it’s good! And you should try it! Go to Whole Foods! ---John Schwenkler, "Arugula Linkage", The American Conservative, September 6, 2008.)

Mballen (talk) 21:46, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

I agree, the italian word is "rucola", "the word "arugula" is a dialectal version of the Italian one. --Ilario (talk) 20:21, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Unbelievable quote of Brasilian (Buffalo) Mozzarella

It is not acceptable to quote Brasilian Mozzarella. Mozzarella is only italian cheese. Please remove the quote. Also the word arugola is from country side, just to be specific if you say arucola in italian restaurant, you are considered very rude and ignorant. I'm just wondering when englishes and americans will start to understand italian language and culture of food.