User talk:Hzh

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National Dish

(Nasi Kerabu) Even have only one citation, it is still remained as citation. Others country’s national dishes also have either limit citation or none. So, one of citation is enough as a proof for time being. Research is continuous. Because of only have one citation it doesn’t mean need to remove. Please don't be bias. If you concern for this matters, please remove all national dish that have one citation or none. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.139.220.23 (talk) 07:24, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

The one citation is not unbiased, and make false claim (for example that there is such as a thing as an official national dish), therefore is not a reliable source, and cannot be used. Please see the talk page of that article. Hzh (talk) 09:23, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Tea

I saw your recent edits to Tea. I am sure you know more about the subject of tea than I do, and about Chinese, but I do know something about languages and linguistics, and I just wondered about that phrase "were borrowed into Korean and Japanese". I don't understand "borrowed into". Usually, we say that a language has borrowed words from another language.CorinneSD (talk) 16:38, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

You can modify the wordings in the way you think best. It is simply an ellipsis (the words "from Chinese" are omitted because that is understood by the following "during earlier periods of Chinese history"), but if it doesn't read right to you, then by all means you are welcome to correct them. Hzh (talk) 17:22, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Sanghyang Adi Buddha

Hi :) may i ask you a BIG favor please? :( I just finished Sanghyang Adi Buddha article. Please can you check my translation? i know i'd made so many grammatical errors, but i can't find it by myself. thank you very much Okkisafire (talk) 08:02, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I can do some proof-reading, but I don't think I can check the translation because I don't really speak Indonesian (I know a few words and phrases, that's about it). At the moment some of the sentences are unclear as to what they mean, but I'll see what I can do. I'm not sure what "ke-Tuhanan" means, I see that Godliness is translated some dictionaries as "kesalehan", is that what you mean? Or do you mean divinity or God? Hzh (talk) 10:12, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I have found some sources, and I believe you mean "God" rather than "Godliness", so I have changed it, but do let me know if you think it is incorrect. Hzh (talk) 11:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I have no idea what this means: "He is the Buddha who do not work" (itu adalah Sang Buddha jang tidak berkarya). Hzh (talk) 15:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Ow, I mean just check my English sentences :}} but thank you for checked the translation. itu adalah Sang Buddha jang tidak berkarya is an old spelling of Indonesian language, but the translation was right, I didn't want to change the direct sentences too much. It should be: "He (the Adi Buddha) is the Buddha (one from so many Buddhas) who doesn't work (you know, it's just like Oranos, Greek's sky god, only watch but nothing else after Kronos castrated him).

And about "Ketuhanan", that's an adjective, not a noun. I think "Godliness" is more precise than "God". How do you think? "Tuhan" is a noun, we translate it as "God". But "Ketuhanan", i think it has to be "Godliness". ::Thanks a lot :)) Okkisafire (talk) 01:06, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are saying. Godliness is a noun, so is God. I'm not sure if you know the definition of godliness, it has little to do with God himself. It means piety. Also I meant that the phrase "He is the Buddha who do not work" does not make sense in English. If it is some kind of Indonesian idiom, then you would need to write it in a way that would make sense to an English reader. Hzh (talk) 01:24, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

So, how is it? (︶︿︶) It confuse me as well. It is hard to translate "Ketuhanan" into English. Well, maybe "God" just suit it best. I'll ask my friend who live in Oz, how to translate "doesn't work". I'll fix it later. Btw, I just fixed my gratitute banner to you :) I copied it from 7&6=thirteen. Thank you again :) Okkisafire (talk) 10:09, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps "Belief in God Almighty" might do as a translation for "KeTuhanan Yang Maha Esa". It is similar to what is written in the page for Pancasila.

This line doesn't make sense - "In the same year of the heating of the controversy", it might be better to just state the year (e.g "In 1978, the Indonesian Directorate General..."). There are also a number of sentences that I am not sure of, but I'll see if I can make sense of them when I have more time. Hzh (talk) 12:46, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I'd read Pancasila article and the translation of the precepts weren't good. That's why I didn't use it. Well, I'm embarassed x_x my translation is so bad Okkisafire (talk) 05:06, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Hallo, Hzh :) I found it, at last, Ketuhanan has to be translated as Lordness. You can find it [here on page 3,4. Okkisafire (talk) 08:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't think this should not be used, because Lordness is not a word in English, or at least, not a word that most people would have come across. I think the common translation "Belief in One Supreme God", or another one mentioned in the article "Recognition of the Divine Omnipotence" should be used instead.

This translation doesn't make sense: "By call Buddha actually we already mention the Adi Buddha, bhanga the Pacceka Buddha and Gautama Buddha, too. Therefore the homage of a Buddhist simply by say: NAMO Buddhaya!" I'll see how to adjust it later. What does "Namo" means? Hzh (talk) 09:18, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, i'm so busy lately -_- i didn't notice your message. I think "Recognition of the Divine Omnipotence" is the best translation, indeed. "Namo" is a sanskrit word which is mean "Salaam" (just like the Muslims use it) or "Shalom" (just like the Christians use it). I'm gonna change it :) thank you again for your help. Okkisafire (talk) 04:50, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

	Promoter of understanding and shared knowledge
	Congratulations on a job well done! May Sanghyang Adi Buddha smile upon you. Okkisafire (talk) 01:06, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

April 2014

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May 2014

Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living persons. Thank you.--John (talk) 10:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Ignoring points made and issuing warning instead is not good manner in wikpedia. Hzh (talk) 09:48, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

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Southcliffe/Sean Harris

I am requesting permission to use the photo you uploaded to Wikimedia on the actor, Sean Harris', page. Thank you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Southcliffe_TV_drama.jpg

I think it's fair use, but thought to ask.

Legaleze (talk) 15:13, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

In general, it is not advisible to use non-free image on a page for a living person. The reason that image is allowed on the Southcliffe page is because no other substitution would be reasonable because you need an image from the TV show itself, but it is assumed in Wikipedia that you can find a replacement free image for the living person. I would advise you not to use that image for Sean Harris page, it would likely be removed. For a non-free image to be used in any page, a separate rationale is necessary, so you would need to give an acceptable rationale why it needs to be used for that particular page. Hzh (talk) 15:38, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. This make sense now. Yes, my promo/press photos were removed. I won't use the photo (or any), but do appreciate your taking the time to explain why.

Legaleze (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:02, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

I know it is a problem for many Wikipedia pages of individuals to find images for the person involved, often people solve this by looking for free image of the person concerned in Flickr (need to check that it is free to use and has the appropriate licence), or government sources (some government sources are considered public domain), or take the picture of the person concerned themselves at a public event. Wikipedia has stricter criteria on the use of image when it involves a living person, there are exceptions (for example if the image is of particular historical significance, or something that cannot be recreated), but those need to be explained in the rationale for the use of the image. Hzh (talk) 17:28, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

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About Reliable source

Hi! I saw that you have changed some of my changes on article Uyghur People, you wrote that "I did not provide reliable source" how do you mean that i did not provide reliable source for those i wrote in Population Problem, Education and some others, I have provided books that are legaly published and where these saying are came from, how are those book are not a reliable source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolatjan (talk • contribs) 01:47, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I have restored the parts that are sourced and relevant. Those that unsourced and not relevant have been removed. I have a particular problem with the population estimate from WUC. I have no idea how they derived the numbers, and without a clear idea it can be just a number invented out of thin air. Neither of the two new sections you have added have any sources, and even if they are sourced, we are required to write the content in a neutral manner. The English used is also generally poor. Hzh (talk) 01:59, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok, so the basic problem here is that im not being neutral in these two sections that i have added, and i admit that maybe im not a flutent english speaker like you but can you then contribute to the page and write thos two sections with a more neutral manner? I will provide you sources for both of them. and what about the Education section that i edited? It was completly in neutral manner with fully reliable and relevant source, so how can that be something that needs to be removed, and the one with art is also cited with source and the source is a reliable good source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolatjan (talk • contribs) 02:06, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't think the population section should be there. There isn't a proper source that can be used, what you wrote in that section was just speculations and anecdotes which have no place in Wikipedia. I think there can be a section on the issue with Uyghurs in modern China (separatism, influx of Chinese people, perception of oppression, etc.), although it needs to be done very carefully because it is a contentious issue. I will think about how to add that. I trimmed the Medicine part, it doesn't need more details, and it is hard to distinguish whether some of the contributions were made by Uyghurs, Arabs or ancient people of the Xinjiang area (opium for example was first introduced to China by Arab traders). Hzh (talk) 02:30, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

If the Population problem shall not be here, then there shall be a redirection to a new page of Uyghur Population problem, maybe you know it or not, it is a common problem in Countries which are trying to ássimilate a people will use false statistics on thier census to fool the world, And if we want to stay Neutral then we need to show both sides view (PRCs and Uyghurs) on various quistions, the population you are giving is not generaly accapeted by uyghurs, The census your wrote est 2009 is actully from 2010, and you said that the medicine part does not need more details, is not it true that Wikipedia wants more information on it not less information, the opium is truely intrduced by Arab merchants but the medical use of it is originaly from Uyghurs medicals says the offical statement the book i statet, the book is used by medical insititution of China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolatjan (talk • contribs) 02:40, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not interested in speculations or conspiracy theories unless it is something widely discussed by reliable neutral sources. If any page on Uyghur population is created then it will most likely be deleted, simply for the lack of a reliable sources. If you can find a reliable source for the Uyghur population, then you can add it, but if it is from the WUC, then we would need to know how they got their numbers. Being neutral is not about giving equal weight to numbers given by both sides. We know China has census, so at least we know how they get their numbers, we have no idea how WUC can get any reliable number apart from a complete guess. Hzh (talk) 02:55, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

After reviewing other pages for other groups of people, I think I'll leave any section on contemporary issues out for the time being. Other pages don't have a special section on that, and some contemporary issues affecting Uyghurs are addressed in the history section and touched on in others, so it is not necessary. Hzh (talk) 09:06, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I will write it here so that it will look tidy in your page, you said two books, i have only cited one book on Education, by this i can see that you did not check the book properly and claiming for more details, i don't have so many time to check back my book and give you the specific page or chapter, please don't do like that again. Dolatjan (talk) 23:29, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

1) Blaine Kaltman - Under the Heel of the Dragon: Islam, Racism, Crime, and the Uighur in China

2) Chen YangBin - Muslim Uyghur Students in a Chinese Boarding School: Social Recapitalization as a Response to Ethnic Integration Hzh (talk) 09:26, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

American Kids

BNA closed two years ago. Kenny's been on Columbia for a while now. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 17:38, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. I checked Amazon it says BNA, so I guess it is wrong. iTunes says only Blue Chair Records. Hzh (talk) 17:44, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

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American Idol timeline

You don't like the change, fine, but how exactly did I mess up the chronology? Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 17:55, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Because if you use year, then it is understood that the 2016 is there to mark the end of 2015, therefore the last year on the chart would be read as 2015. Translated into season, it would mean that the season 15 listed actually is there to mark the end of season 14, not season 15 itself. If you look at it carefully and want to change the chart to read "season", then it's from Season 0 to season 14, not 1 to 14. What you have done is to shift everything by 1 season, therefore messing up the chronology, and you confused yourself when you said there is no season 15. Hzh (talk) 18:05, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

I concede your point about removing the 15th season, however I completely disagree about the "shifting" and messing up the chronology, but... whatever. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 18:08, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

All you need to do is to think more carefully about what you wrote when you said there isn't a season 15. Season 15 merely marked the end of season 14, so when you changed it to 14, you are in fact saying the next year is the first year Keith Urban and Harry Connick Jr start as judges. But if your assumption is that season 14 on the chart means the end of next season, then there is no season 1 on that chart (you need season 0 to see a bar for season 1). This is what I meant by shifting everything by one year, and you are confusing yourself. Hzh (talk) 18:25, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

What part of "I concede your point about removing the 15th season" did you not understand? I think you're confusing yourself. I understand my logic as well as yours. Do you? Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 23:40, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Never any confusion on my part. When you concede the point about 15th season, you are also conceding about being confused, I'm merely asking you to think about why you were confused given that you still don't understand how that chart shifted everything by one year with one missing year (also how others would also be confused by the chart you produced). Hzh (talk) 09:58, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

No, it never shifted anything. It merely cut off the end of the timeline. The so-called "shift" is how you chose to read the timeline. Here's my original edit (before cutting off the end) where NO data changed, except for replacing 2002 for 1, 2003 for 2, etc. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 11:24, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

You are still confused. This is the reason why I ask you to think about it carefully, why you said there is no season 15 in your edit summary in your second edit. You assumed that season 14 marked the end of season 14, it isn't. When you made that chart, you thought that it extended to season 14 (that was your intention, you didn't think it was truncated then), which made me wonder why you didn't see that Keith Urban and Harry Connick Jr only had one year on the show by season 14. The first edit was correct, but you were confused by the chart you made in the first edit (which is why it is confusing to use season instead of year - using year it is easier to see that the bar between 2015 to 2016 refers to 2015 only). Alternatively you can argue that it is premature to list season 14 in that chart, but that wasn't your intention when you made it. No matter, it's fixed now, no point in arguing about something already fixed. Hzh (talk) 11:39, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Collapsing

It's not about the size. The top (or near the top) of an article is not the appropriate place for a timeline -- and the style of this one looks very out-of-place (compared with a wikitable) and not very attractive (it looks a little blurry). So, for those reasons it would be better to be collapsible. --Musdan77 (talk) 17:41, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

@Musdan77: I'm not sure why would think it looks out of place compared to a table. The reason it was chosen is precisely because of the terrible clunky tables that others kept adding there. This is smaller and more compact compared to the tables and is a more elegant solution. Having a collapsible table when the table does not take up a lot of space is more annoying because you need to click to look at it. Hzh (talk) 20:15, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

You just have to look The Voice to see where a table is hideous. Also a timeline is a timeline, and the only appropriate place for it is the section where it can be used to summarise the content of the section. Hzh (talk) 20:31, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Well, a table wouldn't really be better if it wasn't collapsible either. But, as it is now, it does not look good where it is (or, personally, at all -- because of the blurriness). Generally, an article (that's not a list article) should have its tables/lists in the latter part. And if the info is found in prose -- as it should be -- then the table/list may be collapsible. It's not "annoying" to click on for those wanting that info -- but it can be annoying to look at if it's not collapsed. --Musdan77 (talk) 23:07, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

First, there is no issue with the tables or lists being where it is, it is in the second section, and it is relatively small, there isn't really such as a rule as tables not being permissible there. Second, if blurriness is an issue, then it doesn't matter where it is, that is an issue to take up with whoever that wrote the script for the timeline table. I personally don't find it blurry, it's more of an issue with the font (probably fixable). Actually I prefer not to have a table there, but I put it there because others simply won't stop adding an unsightly table there (as can be seen in page for The Voice, and others have added worse looking table in the Idol page). It is the best of the compromise to me, hiding it to me is pointless, might as well not having a table there. So if you want to remove it, go ahead, just be prepared for someone else to add something more hideous. Hzh (talk) 23:42, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

On second thought, you can either remove it or hide it, doesn't really matter that much to me. Personally I would prefer it to be not hidden, but it's not an important issue to me as long as someone don't replace it with a hideous looking one. Hzh (talk) 00:18, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Well I was considering taking the issue to the article talk page, but I didn't feel it like at the time. Now, I'm not sure what to do. :) Decisions, decisions. --Musdan77 (talk) 04:54, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Discuss on talk page when there is an active dispute, at the moment I'm not bothered if you choose to hide it (it's just a minor personal preference to me), so no dispute as far as I am concerned. Hzh (talk) 10:44, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

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Stub articles

I wasn't questioning that many people know of the song, but WP:NSONGS states that a standalone article is only appropriate when there is enough material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album. It could perhaps be moved to draft space, but stubs aren't by themselves enough to warrant song articles. Snuggums (talk / edits) 13:06, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

You should have a look at Google Books. There are many books that mentioned the songs, that means that it is not one of the "articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs". It only requires that someone make the effort to expand the page. I wonder if you want to cite WP:NSONG, did you even look at the criteria for notability? You are creating a lot of problems for other people because you make such a wholesale change to so many articles, and given that there are so many articles that link to the song, that should tell you that it is a significant song in popular culture. And this also doesn't answer the question why you removing links in so many pages, creating a huge problem for people having to undo your edits. Please undo them yourself. Hzh (talk) 13:21, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

History of Chinese classical dance

Excuse me, I have opened the above new article for your excellent work so that it can take its place in the history of dance and of China and be accessed from many other dance articles. I hope you approve of this. Redheylin (talk) 03:25, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

@Redheylin: It's fine, thank you. However, I would say the the title of page should be simply History of Chinese dance, because it is a general history, not specifically Classical Dance. There isn't much of Chinese Classical Dance left in China, and a lot of what's left are folk traditions. I would expand a bit later on the section in the main article when I have the time. I will also add a modern era section to the History page. Hzh (talk) 10:39, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Sino-Platonic papers cited on Uyghur people

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uyghur_people&diff=635767398&oldid=635488688

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uyghur_people&diff=636171698&oldid=636099772

Sino-Platonic papers publishes fringe theories, it explicitly seeks out unknown and "independent" authors to publish "controversial" material.

http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp150_uyghurs.pdf

Rajmaan (talk) 16:13, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you gave me this message, I did not write those sentences and did not add that reference. Also a lot of what's in Sino-Platonic Paper is OK and uncontroversial, and the content can be used when phrased correctly. What could be considered controversial is suggesting Xiongnu and Beidi were ancestors of Uyghurs - although ancient Chinese texts themselves suggest Uyghurs were related to Xiongnu, it is disputed by modern Chinese scholarship.

I also haven't kept an eye on that page for some months now - too many people without any sense want to edit that page, and it gets tiresome keeping that page in a reasonable state. I might get back to it another time. For now, I would suggest that removing the Di, Chidi, Dingling, and Xiongnu part, pointing it the later section which give a more detailed explanation as to why some of it is controversial. The reference actually say that it is ancient Chinese texts that said that those were Uyghur's ancestors, not modern scholarship, so that sentence in the page that say it is the contemporary view about modern Uyghurs is incorrect and does not reflect what the source says. Some modern scholars dispute what ancient Chinese texts say, you can read that in a number of other sources. Hzh (talk) 18:30, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

It is this sentence which is the problem along with claiming Xiongnu ancestry- "The Uyghurs and their progenitors are an ancient Turkic-speaking people who have been living in Central Asia along the Silk Road at least since the first millennium B.C" and the edit's wording is geared towards emphasizing Turkic origins and Turkic indigeneity and biased against Iranic/indo-european origins. Because the Turkic peoples who contributed to the Uyghurs makeup, did not live in Central Asia along the silk road, but came from Siberia and Mongolia in the first millenium A.D., like the tribes, the Uyghurs did not move into Turfan/Kumul until the collapse of the Uyghur Khaganate and Karluks and other Turkic tribes are also migrants into the Tarim. And as for the Xiongnu, even if we know their definite ethnicity, they still didn't live along the Silk Road but instead originate from Siberia/Mongolia. Its Iranics like the Saka and other Indo-Europeans like Tocharians which lived in Central Asia along the Silk Road in the first millenium B.C.Rajmaan (talk) 23:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

It is due to a confusion of the history of the region. Some of the Uyghur's ancestors were people who lived along the silk road, some of the ancestors were Turkic, some Turkic people lived along the silk road at some time, but phrasing it as the person did is inaccurate. You can just point to the section lower down which gives a fuller picture of the different people who formed the modern Uyghurs, so that sentence is redundant as well as dubious and misleading. It is important to point out to editors that the history of the region is very complex and often there is insufficient evidence to say something definite, and there are often conflicting points of view between many academics as well as different political and ethnic groupings, so Wikipedia should try to give as broad a view as possible. Simplistic statement about the ethnogenesis of the Uyghur people should be avoided, and best left out so it may be explained better in another section. Hzh (talk) 00:22, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

The academic rank of Sinoplatonic papers is authoritative. Even though I can see the trouble, and I think you are right. The phrasing was misleading. It would be better to accentuate the multiethnic ethnogenesis of the Uyghur people. I have to rephrase that part. But I am away for some days, so I have to leave you alone till Tuesday. See you next time, bye. 11:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uigur Cämiyät (talk • contribs)

: @Uigur Cämiyät: I think a common mistake is that because the Uyghurs currently speak a Turkic language, the assumption is that the ancestry of the people is entirely Turkic when they are in reality a hybrid people. Although the ancient Uyghurs arrived in the Tarim Basin in the 9th century, the people in the Tarim Basin still spoke two different languages as late as the 11th century. This is noted by Mahmud al-Kashgari who wrote that (see here) "The Uyghur have a pure Turkic language, and also another language which they speak among themselves", and that they had 2 different writing systems, also that the people of Khotan (who were recently conquered by the Karakanids) did not know Turkic well as they had their own language. So complete adoption of the Turkic language by the people of the Tarim Basin is a slow process lasting a few hundred years. Hzh (talk) 12:30, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the situation is even more complicated with two different anthropological areas in the Xingiang Autonomous Rep. The north is more characterized by Mongoloid with minor Caucosoid traits and the south is characterized by Caucasoid with minor Mongoloid traits. Another good example is Uzbekistan, the eastern parts of that country are generqlly Uzbek-Tajik bilingual Tajiks. So, in many cases its very hard to distinguish between original Iranic Caucasoids and original Turkic Turanids. What we can say for sure is that the Ughurs are made of 4 main genetic clusters, a Chinese/South-East-Asian, Iranic/Central+South-Asian, Turkic/Central-Asian+North Siberian and a Mongolian/North-East-Siberian cluster. 23:13, 16 December 2014 (UTC)Uigur Cämiyät (talk)

electrophoresis

you don't seem to be familiar with the relevant scientific literature. There are many papers, in high quality journals, about using gel electrophoresis to separate, say, latex plastic particles or bacteria befor you revert my changes, why don't you learn - say go to pubmed and look up articles by p serwer, a prof at univ of texas if i sound arrogant and annoyed it is because this is like the 100th time someone like you, perhaps well meaning, has reverted factually correct info to incorrect info which is why i don't really bother to do wiki anymore; to many people like you