Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 December 31: Difference between revisions

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December 31

Template:Urban public transport networks and systems in Ukraine

Template:Urban public transport networks and systems in Ukraine (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

This Navbox merits deletion as it does not meet Wikipedia's notability criteria – it has very few direct links, as most are redlinks to nonexistent articles. IJBall (talk) 21:28, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notability criteria apply to articles, not templates, and this useful navbox has around 20 valid links, with potential for more. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:42, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:PragerU

Template:PragerU (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Apparent violation of WP:PROMOTION, WP:ADV, WP:ELMINOFFICIAL, and WP:BALASPS. Prager University is a website that publishes short videos of speeches by notable people (similar to TED Talks). DougHill, the creator of the template, has added the template to every Prager U speaker that has his or her own article. (examples: 1, 2, 3) This appears to be an effort to promote Prager U in violation of the above policies and guidelines among others. Most speakers have surely given many speeches more notable than the Prager U ones. Relevant discussion can be found on DougHill's user talk. I do not work on templates so my apologies if this is the wrong forum. Dr. Fleischman (talk) 19:42, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Appears to be a useful external link. The accusation of "promotion" appears to be a baseless failure to assume good faith. (But yes, this is the right forum to discuss potential template deletions). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:47, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing wrong with objecting to an edit as having an promotional effect. Promotion isn't bad faith. (Articles are routinely speedily deleted under G11 for blatant promotion; I've never heard of a nominator being accused of violating AGF.) for And WP:PROMOTION/WP:ADV weren't the only policies/guidelines I cited. How about WP:ELMINOFFICIAL and WP:BALASPS? --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 22:09, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Blackboxwarning

Template:Blackboxwarning (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Redundant to {{Warning}}. Hardly used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support deletion: If same parameters, delete, if some additional ones, maybe merge in. Montanabw^(talk) 06:23, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or merge This template is used to display a more visually prominent notice than the standard warning box. Useful solutions to this situation include retention of this template or addition of a HowImportantIsThisIssue parameter to the standard warning. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 00:14, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox U.S. county

Template:Infobox U.S. county (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template:Infobox settlement (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Propose merging Template:Infobox U.S. county with Template:Infobox settlement.
I started making the US county template a wrapper for the standard settement infobox, in the former's sandbox, but there are just a few parameters missing. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:00, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please use |type=infobox with {{Tfm}}. You're disrupting literally thousands of articles. 213.7.227.83 (talk) 12:57, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @Pigsonthewing: I echo the IP's sentiments – please only visibly tag the template that you're actually trying to get rid of. You've tagged several highly used templates for merger recently, which has caused quite a lot of annoyance. Infobox settlement has well over 400,000 transclusions, and it's really not necessary to disrupt hundreds of thousands of articles for this. Thanks, Number 57 13:03, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- This is standard procedure, and is insisted on by some editors, who object to template mergers where it is not done. If you want to change it, please raise the matter at Wikipedia talk:Templates for discussion to see whether there is consensus to do so. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:18, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's also "standard procedure" to use |type=infobox on infoboxes. I've pointed this out to you before. 213.7.227.83 (talk) 13:31, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Pigsonthewing: will you be using this parameter in the future? 213.7.227.83 (talk) 17:06, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      - As soon as its available in WP:Twinkle. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:17, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        Please consider the possibility of that being disrespectful towards readers and editors who've expressed discontent. 213.7.227.83 (talk) 20:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        On this one, IP 213, I agree with Andy, he's sort of between a rock and a hard place here. Many of his previous noms have been opposed because the changes have not already been performed, yet if he tries to change the parameters before proposing a merge or move, he's criticized for that too. Let's now set up a no-win. Surely there is a need for technical improvements to most templates, including this one. Montanabw^(talk) 00:00, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        Hi Montana. I didn't mean the nominated templates' parameters. When TfD'ing a template, we tag it with {{Tfm}}, which has an option to display a condensed TfD notice for sidebars and infoboxes. See Template:Tfm#Sidebar. 213.7.227.83 (talk) 00:16, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: A county in the United States is not a "settlement" - a county may actually have many "settlements" - towns, cities, etc. If there is something technical going on her, then never mind, but counties are most certainly not settlements. Montanabw^(talk) 06:09, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- @Montanabw: The documentation for {{Infobox settlement}} says "This template should be used to produce an Infobox for human settlements (cities, towns, villages, communities) as well as other administrative districts, counties, provinces, etcetera - in fact, any subdivision below the level of a country". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:24, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - This documentation should be rewritten to; "This template may be used ..." Abductive (reasoning) 17:14, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - I do agree with that. For example, we also have {{Infobox US state}} and "only" 50 transclusions (presumably) but I would oppose merging that one into anything. My own view is that a "settlement" is a good default where city, state, county, etc don't fit, for example, the zillions of unincorporated communities or census-designated places such as [[ismay, Montana]. Montanabw^(talk) 00:00, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose until there's some detailed discussion of what "just a few parameters missing" includes. It would seem appropriate to provide that comparison without making everyone else do the research. It would also reduce misunderstandings about what the result would be. How much impact would the change have on the current sequence of items displayed in the County template? The test case samples I see at the sandbox seem far from complete; what am I missing?
SBaker43 (talk) 10:21, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- There should indeed be "detailed discussion" before the templates are merged; that's why I've posted this here, at Templates for discussion. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:24, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - I think that is a fair thing to say. I suspect here, the docmentation for the template is what needs work.
Oppose. I see no real similarities between the templates, nor between the concept of a settlement and a county. A settlement can have no legal recognition, but a county is all about legal definitions. Abductive (reasoning) 17:14, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Based on my simple mapping of County to Settlement, excluding metric parameters, I find less than half of the County parameters have an obvious (to me) matching parameter in Settlement. The proposer or a supporter needs to provide enough detail of a reasonable mapping to demonstrate that this proposal is viable.
  SBaker43 (talk) 23:40, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Divbegin

Template:Divbegin (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

544 uses. Redundant with and replaceable by {{div col}} (63939 uses). Will need some cleanup as this template closes with a raw </div>. Gadget850^talk 10:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Reasonable proposition. Divbegin appears to be identical to earlier versions of div_col; whoever did the migration of the old div_col to the new div_col may have code lying around to do another ~550 updates..? John Vandenberg ^(chat) 06:17, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 44: / Line 44: @@
 ****** Please consider the possibility of that being disrespectful towards readers and editors who've expressed discontent. [[Special:Contributions/213.7.227.83|213.7.227.83]] ([[User talk:213.7.227.83|talk]]) 20:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 *******On this one, IP 213, I agree with Andy, he's sort of between a rock and a hard place here.  Many of his previous noms have been opposed because the changes have not already been performed, yet if he tries to change the parameters before proposing a merge or move, he's criticized for that too.  Let's now set up a no-win.  Surely there is a need for technical improvements to most templates, including this one.  [[User:Montanabw|<font color="006600">Montanabw</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|<font color="purple">(talk)</font>]]</sup> 00:00, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
+******** Hi Montana. I didn't mean the nominated templates' parameters. When TfD'ing a template, we tag it with {{tl|Tfm}}, which has an option to display a condensed TfD notice for sidebars and infoboxes. See [[Template:Tfm#Sidebar]]. [[Special:Contributions/213.7.227.83|213.7.227.83]] ([[User talk:213.7.227.83|talk]]) 00:16, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
 *'''Oppose''':  A county in the United States is not a "settlement" - a county may actually have many "settlements" - towns, cities, etc.  If there is something technical going on her, then never mind, but counties are most certainly not settlements.  [[User:Montanabw|<font color="006600">Montanabw</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:Montanabw|<font color="purple">(talk)</font>]]</sup> 06:09, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 ** {{Ping|Montanabw}} The documentation for {{Tl|Infobox settlement}} says {{tq|"This template should be used to produce an Infobox for human settlements (cities, towns, villages, communities) as well as other administrative districts, counties, provinces, etcetera - in fact, any subdivision below the level of a country"}}. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 10:24, 1 January 2015 (UTC)