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Kutrigurs under Attila

This article has several inconsistences.

1) "An interesting fact about the Kutrigurs is that, along with their counterpart the Utigurs, they formed the striking forces of Attila's Hunnic armies. After Attila's death, the larger part of the Kutrigurs returned to their homes in the Scythian plains."

This is obviously not an interesting fact, but pure nonsense, as Attila died at least about 100 years earlier in 453 and was long dead, when the Kutrigurs formed.

2) In the 'Utigur'-article, it is said: "In the mid 6th century some Utigur groups were conquered by the Eurasian Avars and became known as the Kutrigurs, while the remaining (eastern) portion retained the Utigur ethnicon." Obviously this means, the Kutrigurs were the western portion.

But: "The conquest of the easternmost Kutrigurs by Gokturk arrivals ..." But the eastern ones were Utigurs not Kutrigurs.

3) "The last of the Utigurs had settled in Pannonia (modern Syrmia) by April 677. The majority submitted to the Avar Kaghan, though some rebelled moving to Pelagonia under the leadership of Maurus (nicknamed Kuber meaning "rebel") ..." "Under the leadership of Kuber, another part of the Kutrigur tribe seems to have moved to Sirmium (Pannonia) and from there south to the Pelagonian plain." Now what? Utigurs or Kutrigurs?

Truchses (talk) 21:03, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Utigurs and Kutrigurs were tribes of Hunnic origin, later known as Bulgars. According to Romans historians, these two tribes formed the nucleus of the Hunnic Union in 4th century AD. The legend about Kerch marshes and the deer(stallion in some versions) is about the Kutrigurs, who returned home and told about the western lands to their relatives, Utigurs. The two tribes attacked the Goths together. The two names, Utigur and Kutrigur appear around 500 AD, some say Utigur and Kuturgur were grandsons of Attila, sons of his third son Ernak. Some historians think that Utigurs were the same people as Akatirs. Many historians consider the first two names in Bulgarian Prince List to be Attila and his son Ernak. ^[1]

Also their origin is not so unclear as it is usually assumed. Probably they were Yuezhi tribes - see article Huns, against Xiongnu. This is what is generally accepted among modern Bulgarian historians as Атанас Стаматов, Ж. Войников, Петър Голийски, Георги Владимиров, Цветелин Степанов, Тодор Чобанов and others.

Utigurs were eastern part, Kutrigurs - western.93.152.143.113 (talk) 05:55, 19 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

How exactly is Kutri- / Kotrag- derived from Toqur-?

In the article is mentioned that the name of the tribe comes (presumably) from *toqur ("nine" in Türkish), however, I don't get how this is possible? Is there a rule in Turkish languages, which governs such a shuffling of syllables? If not, has ever been found any source, in which the Kutrigurs were called Tokurgurs / Dokirgurs or anything of this sort, upon which one can build such a relation?

Origin of the (Kutrigur) Huns

Roman historians Themistius(317-390), Claudian(370-404), and later Procopius(500-560) called the Huns Massagetae.^[2] The Huns were called Massagetae also by Ambrose(340-397), Ausonius(310-394), Synesius(373–414), Zacharias Rhetor(465-535), Belisarius(500-565), Evagrius Scholasticus(6th century) and others. Alexander Cunningham, B.S. Dahiya(1980, 23) and Edgar Knobloch(2001, 15) identify Massagetae with the Great Yuezhi: Da Yuezhi -> Ta-Yue-ti(Great Lunar Race) -> Ta-Gweti -> Massa-Getae. Dahiya wrote about the Massagetae and Thyssagetae : "These Guti people had two divisions, the Ta-Yue-Che and Siao-Yue-Che, exactly corresponding to the Massagetae and Thyssagetae of Herodotus ... " (Dahiya 1980, 23). Thyssagetae, who are known as the Lesser Getae, correspond with the Xiao Yuezhi, meaning Lesser Yuezhi.^[3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.254.217.110 (talk) 12:51, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personal attacks on other editors and WP:FRINGE theories, or through them manipulate with due and undue WP:WEIGHT of major and very minor viewpoints, are not welcome on Wikipedia.--Crovata (talk) 03:40, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

you are not an editor, you are vandal

^ http://www.promacedonia.org/en/sr/
^ "The World of the Huns", Otto Maenchen-Helfen, page 4:"But considering that Themistius, Claudian, and later Procopius called the Huns Massagetae,..."
^ SINO-PLATONIC PAPERS, Number 127 October, 2003, page 22-24, http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp127_getes.pdf

[1] ttp://www.promacedonia.org/en/sr/

[2] "The World of the Huns", Otto Maenchen-Helfen, page 4:"But considering that Themistius, Claudian, and later Procopius called the Huns Massagetae,..."

[3] SINO-PLATONIC PAPERS, Number 127 October, 2003, page 22-24, http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp127_getes.pdf

[1]

[2]

[3]

@@ Line 44: / Line 44: @@
 Roman historians [[Themistius]](317-390), [[Claudian]](370-404), and later [[Procopius]](500-560) called the [[Huns]] Massagetae.<ref>"The World of the Huns", Otto Maenchen-Helfen, page 4:"But considering that Themistius, Claudian, and later Procopius called the Huns Massagetae,..."</ref> The Huns were called Massagetae also by [[Ambrose]](340-397), [[Ausonius]](310-394), [[Synesius]](373–414), [[Zacharias Rhetor]](465-535), [[Belisarius]](500-565), [[Evagrius Scholasticus]](6th century) and others. Alexander Cunningham, B.S. Dahiya(1980, 23) and Edgar Knobloch(2001, 15) identify Massagetae with the Great [[Yuezhi]]: Da Yuezhi -> Ta-Yue-ti(Great Lunar Race) -> Ta-Gweti -> Massa-Getae. Dahiya wrote about the Massagetae and Thyssagetae : "These [[Guti]] people had two divisions, the Ta-Yue-Che and Siao-Yue-Che, exactly corresponding to the Massagetae and Thyssagetae of Herodotus ... " (Dahiya 1980, 23). Thyssagetae, who are known as the Lesser Getae, correspond with the Xiao Yuezhi, meaning Lesser Yuezhi.<ref>SINO-PLATONIC PAPERS, Number 127 October, 2003, page 22-24, http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp127_getes.pdf</ref>  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/188.254.217.110|188.254.217.110]] ([[User talk:188.254.217.110|talk]]) 12:51, 30 December 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 :[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ACrovata&type=revision&diff=697600266&oldid=697600170 Personal attacks] on other editors and [[WP:FRINGE]] theories, or through them manipulate with due and undue [[WP:WEIGHT]] of major and very minor viewpoints, are not welcome on Wikipedia.--[[User:Crovata|Crovata]] ([[User talk:Crovata|talk]]) 03:40, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
+you are not an editor, you are vandal