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:Using the word "suffering" is obviously a misunderstanding of what the word actually means. "Reform" is also a poor choice -- it implies a change in the Church as a whole when in fact it was simply a decentralization affecting specific areas. The previous language with the footnote gives the reader all the info they should expect from the infobox. If someone other than the IP feels more detail is warranted, please provide workable language. [[User:North Shoreman|Tom (North Shoreman)]] ([[User talk:North Shoreman|talk]]) 00:47, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
:Using the word "suffering" is obviously a misunderstanding of what the word actually means. "Reform" is also a poor choice -- it implies a change in the Church as a whole when in fact it was simply a decentralization affecting specific areas. The previous language with the footnote gives the reader all the info they should expect from the infobox. If someone other than the IP feels more detail is warranted, please provide workable language. [[User:North Shoreman|Tom (North Shoreman)]] ([[User talk:North Shoreman|talk]]) 00:47, 25 August 2017 (UTC)


[[User:Ernio48]],[[User:North Shoreman]] and other one you are not clear not recognizing the Catholic Reform. Every person that studied history notices propaganda in this article.Your talking isn't clear at all.I posted reference of Britannica to testify the Catholic Reform that allowed the catholic Church to have still today the 48% of people in EU and around 1.3 billions people in the world.Protestants are only around 800 millions.This isn't at all a decline neither in the whole Europe neither in the world.Decline means something irreversible and wasn't so in all Europe after that war.American people have no idea of history of religions.Catholic decline can be referred only to part of the north Europe.You invent what you like,but reality is luckily different.Original research.[[Special:Contributions/95.249.69.24|95.249.69.24]] ([[User talk:95.249.69.24|talk]]) 05:23, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
[[User:Ernio48]],[[User:North Shoreman]] and other one you are not clear not recognizing the Catholic Reform. Every person that studied history notices propaganda in this article.Your talking isn't clear at all.I posted reference of Britannica to testify the Catholic Reform that allowed the catholic Church to have still today the 48% of people in EU and around 1.3 billions people in the world.Protestants are only around 800 millions.This isn't at all a decline neither in the whole Europe neither in the world.Decline means something irreversible and wasn't so in all Europe after that war.American people have no idea of history of religions.Catholic decline can be referred only to part of the north Europe.You invent what you like,but reality is luckily different.Original research.
P:S: Anglicans position is particular.They are named protestants many times but isn't so.They derive from a laic schism and not from an erethic position.They are like catholics but they recognize as chief the ruler of England.This is testified by the fact that many of them in the last period are passing to the catholicism.[[Special:Contributions/95.249.69.24|95.249.69.24]] ([[User talk:95.249.69.24|talk]]) 05:23, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Revision as of 06:41, 26 August 2017

Template:Vital article

Former good article nomineeThirty Years' War was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
August 15, 2006Good article nomineeNot listed
June 5, 2008Good article nomineeNot listed
June 11, 2008Peer reviewReviewed
November 22, 2014Good article nomineeNot listed
On this day... A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 14, 2004.
Current status: Former good article nominee

Sebastian Vrancx

A painter from the area of modern-day Belgium. His paintings probably concern the bloody conflict The Eighty Years' War or Dutch War of Independence (1566–1648). They are constantly published in articles about the Thirty Years' War because they are very graphic, showing many acts of cruelty. These are in reality paintings from the late 16th century: http://www.blouinartinfo.com/artists/sebastian-vrancx-190986 . Marcin862 (talk) 15:50, 10 June 2016 (UTC) In a serious documentary film, the Vrancx picture with a destroyed village was also used.Marcin862 (talk) 15:53, 11 June 2016 (UTC) These two wars went on simultaneously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alatriste, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Breda_(1624) .Marcin862 (talk) 11:01, 17 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what you are proposing. A couple of pics from Sebastian Vrancx are already in the article. If you have some additional ones, they could go in the Gallery. If you want them to be more prominent, you could be WP:BOLD and add them. --A D Monroe III (talk) 14:35, 17 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I mean they should probably be deleted. It is a mistake, I'm almost sure.Marcin862 (talk) 09:55, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I got it now. If you want to delete them, okay. But they aren't really "wrong" from our current prospective; they aren't used as specific historical events, just examples from the era about the sort of things that happened. But, yes, the first one is labeled as "Thirty Years' War" even though it's from 1620. I'll fix that, though leave the pic in for the moment. --A D Monroe III (talk) 18:20, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Strength: About 20,000 Hungarian and Croatian cavalry[14]

erm ... I think it was just a bit more than that, surely! 86.142.220.21 (talk) 01:22, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried to fill out the Habsburg side of the infobox. My sources are weak, however, partially relying on our own WP article for the Imperial Army (HRE), which states a max of 65 regiments each of nominally 3000 men. That would give near 200,000; I reduced this to "over 150,000" to account for possible under-strength units (lesser of two SYNTHs).
If anyone knows of some RS for these, please improve. --A D Monroe III (talk) 17:08, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Decline

The decline as intended from latin fo Catholic Church is in part of the north Europe were it lowed or even disappeared.Not in Europe in general.82.49.34.193 (talk) 18:48, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(copied from a response I made to your comment on my talk page) My issue is that the text added is too poorly written to communicate useful information to a reader. Others have problems with your interpretation of the sources. First, I want you to stop reverting other editors -- at least four editors disagree with your text. Next I want is for you to discuss on the article's discussion page exactly what you're trying to say and specifically show what language in the sources support your conclusions. Finally, don't add anything back until there is a clear consensus of editors to do this. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 18:58, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Nobody in the Christianity can deny the Catholic Reform that followed in Trento.Decline derives from latin and means something difficult or mostly impossible to revert.This happened for Catholic Church in scandinavian area,nothern Netherland,north Germany and Estonia and not in all Europe in general.In fact today catholics are around 1.3 billions and protestants (with many differences inside)just less than 900 millions.In Germany the majority is catholic.So the aftermath of this war must be well described at that point.User:Ernio48 is for protestant propaganda.I read his past and his edits.He defends protestants countries and lows catholic ones in edits.He even reverted just now Britannica reference.All silence?If nobody comes here i set again main Britannica reference.79.49.192.139 (talk) 19:09, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What I disagree on is specifying "north Europe". Here is what religious situation in Europe looked like before and after the Thirty Years' War. Emphasizing "north Europe" is simply not true.Ernio48 (talk) 19:34, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Peak of the Reformation & beginning of the Counter-Reformation (1545-1620)
End of the Reformation & Counter-Reformation (1648)
Religious situation in Europe, late 16th & early to mid 17th century

I've more references too.The word decline in general is too strong.It can be referred only to scandinavia,Estonia,north Germany,north The Netherlands,part of Switzerland.Your map it's at the peak of protestants,but let's check the low too after this war .I'm not fanatic.I bought even today Stabilo pencil,but decline can be used just for pat of north Europe.You can't neither deny catholic reform that followed.79.49.192.139 (talk) 19:36, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I do not decline the whole "reform" part, just territorial part. The second map depicts Europe in 1648.Ernio48 (talk) 19:44, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Suffering can be good for all Europe,but not decline.Reform happened in fact even today Catholics are 50% more than protestants.We can set suffering in central and northern Europe.Wider is the place lower is the effect.79.49.192.139 (talk) 19:46, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This debate is over a bullet point in the infobox."Suffering of the Catholic Church in central and north Europe and its reform" is the last version posted by the IP. I have reverted it back to simply "Decline of the Catholic Church" which is clarified in the attached footnote with "The later divisions that occurred made Europe more like it is now with the Catholic areas in the south and the Lutherans farther north and more importantly, it took the central power from the Catholic Church."
Using the word "suffering" is obviously a misunderstanding of what the word actually means. "Reform" is also a poor choice -- it implies a change in the Church as a whole when in fact it was simply a decentralization affecting specific areas. The previous language with the footnote gives the reader all the info they should expect from the infobox. If someone other than the IP feels more detail is warranted, please provide workable language. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 00:47, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User:Ernio48,User:North Shoreman and other one you are not clear not recognizing the Catholic Reform. Every person that studied history notices propaganda in this article.Your talking isn't clear at all.I posted reference of Britannica to testify the Catholic Reform that allowed the catholic Church to have still today the 48% of people in EU and around 1.3 billions people in the world.Protestants are only around 800 millions.This isn't at all a decline neither in the whole Europe neither in the world.Decline means something irreversible and wasn't so in all Europe after that war.American people have no idea of history of religions.Catholic decline can be referred only to part of the north Europe.You invent what you like,but reality is luckily different.Original research. P:S: Anglicans position is particular.They are named protestants many times but isn't so.They derive from a laic schism and not from an erethic position.They are like catholics but they recognize as chief the ruler of England.This is testified by the fact that many of them in the last period are passing to the catholicism.95.249.69.24 (talk) 05:23, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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