Talk:North Korea

Contradictions on hdi

there are two very contradictory reports regarding the DPRK hdi. One is the one from algora publishing presently mentioned in this article. the other is the 1998 U.N report mentioned in the 2009 version hdi a wiki article which states a far higher hdi of 0.766. Which one is correct? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index_(2009)#Countries_missing_from_latest_report

Article highlights non-notable features

This article contains a lot of statements which appear worded to sound like great achievements or sinister threats, but are actually just normal everyday features of modern life worldwide (i.e. not notable). For example, the section "Law enforcement and internal security" contains:

Security establishments employ mass surveillance, tightly monitoring cellular and digital communications. The MPS, State Security and the police allegedly conduct real-time monitoring of text messages, online data transfer, monitor phone calls and automatically transcribe recorded conversations. They reportedly have the capacity to triangulate a subscriber's exact location, while military intelligence monitors phone and radio traffic as far as 140 kilometers (87 miles) south of the Demilitarized zone.[195]

But that's true for pretty much any country that has broadband and cellular phones. It's perfectly ordinary for a country's emergency services to be able to locate a cell phone user, and it's perfectly ordinary for state institutions to monitor communications to defend national security. It's done in France, the UK, the USA, Canada, the Netherlands, etc. etc. and articles on those countries, certainly at the main article level, don't particularly highlight those features. So the article needs to justify WHY this is of particular note in North Korea, with citations to back up the reasoning.

I mean, I'd be pretty annoyed as a British taxpayer if our police were not monitoring the communications of suspected serious criminals, or if the police couldn't immediately detect my location when I called to report a violent crime in progress. And I'd be extra super annoyed if the British security services weren't sifting through internet traffic on the look-out for potential bombers.

There are other similar examples. A boy drowned while trying to rescue a photo of the president; but boys around the world drown doing all kinds of stupid things. If this were an example of a much larger pattern of people rushing into burning buildings or floodwater to rescue political photos at the exclusion of other sentimental artifacts, that'd be notable; but the article doesn't justify that. The article also seems to make a fuss about popular media being state-owned, but that's also the case for the BBC which doesn't attract similar attention in the main article about the UK, or state broadcaster NPO in the Netherlands.

If something as mundane as mass monitoring or cellphone location is worthy of note in North Korea, please explain how this contrasts with ordinary modern life in other countries. I am not arguing that is is not notable, I'm arguing that the article doesn't justify why it is notable. Andrew Oakley (talk) 10:53, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Regarding surveillance, see our previous discussion. In fact, many sources, such as Barbara Demick's Nothing to Envy, indicate that the surveillance is based on "human intelligence" rather than "signal intelligence". The passage you quote doesn't exactly reflect the source cited, which says, for example, "However, the security agencies may not have enough resources and manpower to conduct real-time monitoring of all the calls made by more than two million subscribers." Overall, the source is more tentative than that paraphrase suggests. The focus of the source is not about surveillance, but the introduction of mobile phones into North Korea. So, yes, I think that passage should be removed or turned into something more meaningful.

Regarding the boy drowning trying to save a portrait of the leader, I think there are several such stories promulgated by the North Korea media, as part of the personality cult. Perhaps this can be explained better.--Jack Upland (talk) 11:25, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Vandalism

https://www.twitch.tv/lrhlive - this is a link opened when pressing "holds elections" in the intro, as well as the most of the page. Same in incognito on chrome and firefox.

Swil999 (talk) 03:30, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Opens to Elections in North Korea for me. - FlightTime (open channel) 03:35, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

It seems to have stemmed from an edit made by Special:Contributions/GodenDaeg, he added a pronunciation, but when that change was undid, it no longer linked to twitch. Swil999 (talk) 03:42, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

@Swil999:  Fixed. - FlightTime (open channel) 03:55, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Also affecting China, Arab League, and Colombia. What's going on? 2601:644:0:DBD0:F0BF:80DE:142:9ECF (talk) 06:20, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

A resolved issue concerning a template. See Wikipedia:Help desk#malicious code found at Landgraviate of Hesse-Kassel. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 12:00, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2017

After the part "Territory controlled by the Democratic People's Republic of Korea shown in green", add in a "claimed but uncontrolled territories shown in light green" and shade South Korea light green in the photo above the text. VoicefulBread66 (talk) 12:56, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 17:11, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

• This change should be done; a consensus should not even need to be established, have a look at any other disputed territory page including South Korea itself this guy is right! TBrandley (talk) 14:02, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
• I did it, as best as could be done for now I don't make photos. TBrandley (talk) 14:18, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

I agree. I think this is a good addition to the page. It is important to note that the DPRK claims the whole country just as the ROK does.--Jack Upland (talk) 17:56, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

The Hydrogen Bomb.

On the 3rd September 2017 North Korea stated it had detonated its first Hydrogen Bomb as part of its nuclear testing program according to various news sources. If this is the case it ushers in a completely new global paradigm in nuclear arms proliferation signalling increased regional tensions and emergency meetings of the United Nations Security Council. The Ambassador to the United States of America, Nikki Haley, stated North Korean leader is '...begging for war...'.

Hi, is this post related to editing the content of the page? If not, please note above that this is not a forum for discussing North Korea. Thanks --TF92 (talk) 21:01, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

POV

Let's hear it, Naturallyunnatural, who added the tag. What exactly do you find objectionable in terms of WP:NPOV in this article? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:06, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Absolutely, there must be a case made from the editor in question in order to use this tag. If he does not make this case within a stated period of time then we can just remove the template--TF92 (talk) 17:24, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

No explanation. I've removed the tag. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:22, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 September 2017

Chanhee is a North Korean spy. Lived in New Jeresy. Becareful. 197.248.183.34 (talk) 08:46, 15 September 2017 (UTC)