User talk:TaylanUB

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, TaylanUB, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like Wikipedia and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!  - Ahunt (talk) 18:07, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Discretionary Sanctions Notification for Paraphilia and Transgender Issues

Since you have been editing in trans-related articles and opined about the topic ([1], [2]), I thought it might be best to inform you of existing discretionary sanctions surrounding the topic.

This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding transgender issues and paraphilia classification (e.g. hebephilia), a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

Template:Z33 EvergreenFir (talk) 19:35, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

comments at Talk:Transphobia

Hi TaylanUB:

This is a continuation of a discussion started at Talk:Transphobia, and is in reply to your last comment of 18:59, 22 February 2017.

You've wandered into an area on Wikipedia that, just as in life, can be fairly contentious. So much so, in fact, that it is one of several topic areas that are under special rules, and I see above that an editor has already advised you of this fact.

You're still fairly new here and I didn't want you to be caught unawares. There are some things to watch out for, here. In one short post about your interests, you have already mentioned trans* issues, separatist lesbianism, and Naziism; and with respect to the exchanges you have had on other forums you have described experiencing "constant and extreme vitriol", having your opinions regarded "on equal grounds with neo-Nazism", and as a result that you are "really exhausted and permanently walking on eggshells". This could be seen by some as a red flag, although the "walking on eggshells" part could be good, if that translates into exercising caution before jumping in.

In any of these special topic areas, you may find that even making statements that seem perfectly innocent to you, such as "make things more neutral" or "they [articles about this topic] are mostly written by people on one side of the debate" or "some of my edits may offend people" may set people's teeth on edge, and you may not get the welcoming response that is due you, especially to someone relatively new.

You might consider working on other areas of interest at the outset, and staying away from areas of conflict in Wikipedia until you get your sea legs in how things work around here. Also, if you do accidentally bump into one of the many policies or guidelines and get some friendly advice about it on your Talk page, please just leave it there and reply however you see fit rather than deleting it; they're trying to help you stay within the guidelines. Once you get more experience with less controversial articles, you'll be better able to tackle the tougher ones.

If you really want to edit on trans* topics, then please consider raising the issue first on the Talk page of the article concerned, rather than editing the article directly, and wait for feedback before continuing. Hope this helps! Mathglot (talk) 01:36, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the friendly welcome. To slightly clarify where I stand: I don't intend to touch any parts of Wikipedia about (neo-)Nazism. My stance on (neo-)Nazism could be said to be that of an average young, politically left-leaning German citizen: I'm no expert on the topic and just pack it in the "generally horrendous ideologies" bag, without further interest in the topic. I mentioned that I'm one of the people who think "alt-right" to be a euphemism for neo-Nazism, which I suppose may be offensive to some people who identify with the alt-right, but either way it's not a topic I see myself touching on Wikipedia in the foreseeable future, and my interactions tend to be with people who we at least agree with on that point.

Regarding radical feminist and trans* topics, as you say, even if I formulate something rather neutrally, it can immediately raise an alarm in the minds of people who hold views extremely opposed to mine. As I want to be civil on Wikipedia, but lack the mental energy and diplomatic skills required to sugar-coat my statements in enough layers of apologetic tone so as to become completely palatable, I try to hold some emotional distance and strike a healthy balance between frankness and politeness. :-) All I expect in return is not to be treated with contempt and derision.

Oh and regarding the editor whose warnings I deleted, that was an instance of really experiencing derisive treatment (bullying, in fact), though stemming from an unrelated political issue. One of our first interactions was having my reasoning called "utter garbage" by them. After providing elaborate reasoning for my edits, they seemed more interested in trying to block my editing through use of a variety of Wikipedia rules rather than providing counter-arguments to my reasoning. (They accused me at least of: conflict of interest, personal attacks, and failing to assume good faith, two of which they have ironically done themselves.) I asked another editor for help with that situation, so hopefully it will be dealt with some way.

Again, thanks for the welcome! TaylanUB (talk) 19:06, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

You're welcome. Couldn't quite discern whether you are a German citizen, or just holding opinions like one, but either way, if you speak German (or other languages) you might consider using the {{Babel}} template on your user page. For an example, see my user page, or if you want to see a really amazing one, check out this one. Mathglot (talk) 08:23, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Collaborative editing, and dealing with opposition

Hi again, TaylanUB. I see that some of your edits are generating some reverts and some Talk page opposition. I hope this is not discouraging you, as I haven't seen you around, lately. It takes a while to get the hang of things around here, and just like in real life, sometimes you'll run into some opposition, which may or may not be justified. If you're interested in talking about any of this, feel free to ping me here; just reply with the text {{ping|Mathglot}} somewhere in your comment. We welcome your contributions, so I hope you'll stick around. 02:17, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.6.59.134 (talk • contribs) 16:33, December 2, 2017 (UTC)

It was 3 edits over a 25 hour span (and I didn't even know about the rule), but go on, let the admins see how much your bias blinds you. *sigh* TaylanUB (talk) 16:57, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Feminist views on transgender and transsexual people

Hi Taylan, I think you can develop into a really good and valuable editor, and I don't want to see that path derailed by something like this, but there may be some real risk of that so I wanted to offer some words which I hope will be helpful.

Regarding the image from Imgur that you discussed at Talk:Feminist views on transgender and transsexual people that purports to be a screenshot of a conversation among trans activists about how to manipulate Wikipedia, and your reply there. I just wanted to add these words, which I hope will be useful and of some comfort.

Please don't let this depress you, and please don't become a zombie as you said there. If you want to get angry, get angry at unknown persons of unknown motivation, who may be trying to manipulate you, me, and others interested in the topic by posting unverifiable images that anyone could create in 30 minutes with the proper graphics tool. This could just as easily be a false flag operation created by radical feminists to whoop their supporters into a frenzy of super-vigilance tending towards paranoia and over-compensating with biased editing, as it could be a "real" conversation—whatever that means in this case—but the point is, we just don't know, and it shouldn't influence the way we edit the article, either in one sense, or the other. Does that make sense?

Much of your post dealt with what might or might not be happening off-wiki, and what their opinions and motivations might be. Try not to get sucked into that. The purpose of an article talk page is to discuss how to improve the article, so try to stick to that as much as possible. You can discuss the behavior of editors that you believe may not be adhering to Wikipedia policies on their User talk page, and if that doesn't work, raise a topic at ANI.

With regard to the article in question and other related articles, a calm attitude, an assumption of good faith on the part of other editors who may hold different opinions than you, and adherence to normal Wikipedia standards of verifiability and citation of reliable sources is the best strategy here, and is completely sufficient to keep this article on the right track; what happens off-wiki needn't concern us. Don't give such trolls the satisfaction of rebroadcasting their "conversation" and trumpeting their strategy to inflame even more people than it reached on whatever image board you found it.

If anyone lets themself be manipulated into departing from normal Wikipedia policies and guidelines, then they will be the loser, and so will the article and Wikipedia generally. I urge you to take a deep breath, assume someone out there is trying to manipulate your emotions, and then go back to discussing at the article talk page per normal discussion standards. If you feel this has affected your ability to edit this article objectively and with a neutral point of view, then I urge you to step back for a bit. This is not some kind of high-stakes war that will be lost if User:TaylanUB is not on the battlements every day at the crack of dawn. Let somebody else deal with it for a while. Sometimes the simple act of disengaging for a bit and working on something else, or even avoiding Wikipedia altogether can be the best strategy.

If you are feeling overwhelmed on how to engage in article content disputes in a calm and effective manner, please check out the Wikipedia policy on dispute resolution. There are some ideas there on what to do and what not to do, and links to other project pages that may be of help. And you can always contact me on my talk page anytime, or ask an admin for help by posting a question here on your Talk page, and adding {{HelpMe}} to your comment. Hope this helps, Mathglot (talk) 08:38, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi Mathglot, I'm not impressed at all by your suggestion that this might be a "false flag" operation, that somebody is trying to manipulate "my emotions" (rather than Wikipedia articles), or that this topic would somehow make me unable to remain neutral, when the attitude of the people in the screenshots is perfectly congruent with how anti-feminist trans activists have behaved over the years both outside of Wikipedia, and within Wikipedia wherein I've been called a "hateful bigot" and my contributions repeatedly deleted by appealing to wrong applications or interpretations of Wikipedian rules, for nothing else than adding factual and extremely well-covered content regarding a physical assault against a feminist by transgender activists. If you really mean to be helpful, I would expect you to acknowledge the massive bias that is happening in transgender-related Wikipedia articles and try to do something about that. You should prioritize that over being friendly to me if you want to improve Wikipedia, because I alone am not going to be able to counter a mob of biased editors who are keeping trans-related articles under control. For instance, where were you when citations of The Guardian, The Times, and New Statesman were removed and replaced with opinion pieces from "The Queerness" and "PlanetTransgender" to claim that the assault was not really an assault? I appreciate that you are trying to be helpful from a technical point of view, but I'm afraid that so far I don't see you helping to improve Wikipedia's content on these topics much. TaylanUB (talk) 14:52, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi Taylan, I'm sorry you feel that way. I guess I was unclear in my point about the image: I'm not making any claim about its provenance one way or another, only that we have no idea what the source of it was, it could be from anybody for any reason, we just don't know. The point is, that it doesn't matter, and it should have exactly zero effect on how we go about improving the article, as it only serves to stir up emotions and encourage people to hunker down and take a battleground mentality onto the article talk pages, instead of calmly discussing how to improve the article and the encyclopedia.

In an atmosphere like that, tempers can flare. Nevertheless, no one has the right to call you or anyone a "hateful bigot", and you don't have to put up with that. This is clearly a personal attack and you can and should call them out for that kind of behavior on their user talk page, citing the fundamental principle of civility. The policy page has a section on how to engage a user who has been uncivil, or to report them for possible sanctions if they won't stop.

At the same time, talking about "a mob of biased editors" simply is not helpful; if that term appeared on an article talk page it would be like throwing a grenade into an area that is already tense (that's one reason it is under discretionary sanctions). Editors may be biased (some would say all editors are), but there is no foul until bias has made its way into an article in the form of content that contravenes one of the policies, such as the core principle of maintaining a neutral point of view.

I know you're aware of that, and have been trying to counter non-neutral content, as you mentioned with respect to someone removing the Guardian and other reliable sources in favor of what may be blogs or other sources of questionable reliability. In that case, you should feel free to revert a bold change like that with a neutrally worded edit summary citing WP:BRD, and inviting them to discuss their desired change on the Talk page. In general, when you have a content dispute with other editors, the goal is to seek consensus on the article talk page, and you can check out WP:Dispute resolution for some methods for how to go about that. Besides being the right way to go about it per the guidelines, it's also more effective way to counter bias than making free-floating comments about it, which may simply inflame others and not lead to improvements in the article. (As to "where was I" when all this was going on: everyone here is a volunteer; I volunteer in numerous topic areas on Wikipedia, including French history, words, World War II, Catalonia, translation, Cuba, Deafness, biographies, Hungary, medieval history, and others. And I even have a life outside Wikipedia, mirabile dictu. There's no obligation to edit, and never any reason to reproach someone for not making an improvement that you think is warranted.)

I hope you consider contributing to the encyclopedia for a while in another topic area of interest to you. You'll gain good experience, which will be useful to you later in improving articles relating to this subject area with less Sturm und Drang than you've been experiencing here. If you decide to stick it out in this topic area, try to remain informed about guidelines and policies regarding editing controversial topics, the etiquette regarding interaction with other editors with respect to dispute resolution, and especially how all of these are affected by editing articles in a topic area subject to discretionary sanctions. Hope this helps, Mathglot (talk) 22:46, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Can you please provide a {{Diff}} of where citations of The Guardian et al. were replaced with opinion pieces? That should be fixed. Mathglot (talk) 21:25, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thank you for your work on articles relating to radical feminism and transphobia. I saw those screenshots as well and it got me back on Wikipedia.The obvious bias on those and other articles is a real issue. What you're doing is great and I appreciate your edits!

Woodsy lesfem (talk) 16:55, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Adding quotations with named references

You asked somewhere how to use different quotations with named reference. First, to back up a minute: different quotations often occur on different pages of the same book, so probably you first want to know how to do that, i.e., specify a named reference again with a different page number. There are several solutions, and they work whether or not you are using the (recommended) {{cite}} series of templates. The simplest is to use the {{rp}} template. E.g., {{rp|27–29}} (or, {{rp|page=27–29}}, same thing). A more efficient way is with {{sfn}}, but that's only advisable if the article is already using short footnotes, or if you're the first to add one, as guidelines frown on mixing different styles of referencing.

Back to your question: once you've got the issue of referencing different pages with named refs down, how do you indicate a different quotation? I've struggled with this before, and there's no ideal solution.

• You can embed the quotation in a separate ref right after the named reference, so either:
  • <ref name="Lincoln-1863" /><ref>"Four score and seven years ago..." —A. Lincoln, Gettysburg, Nov. 9, 1863</ref> I'd throw in a little suffix identifier if you do it this way, because you never know with other editors coming in after you, whether the two references might get separated, and if the quotation ends up by itself, somehow, you want someone to be able to rescue it and restore the context, and the suffix helps with that.
  • Or, name the quotation reference as well: <ref name="Lincoln-1863" /><ref name="Lincoln-1863-quote-Gettysburg">Four score...</ref>. In this method, the <ref> tag carries around the id as metadata, but you don't see it in the footnote itself, whereas in the previous method, you do.)
• You can also embed the quotation in an explantory footnote, using {{efn}}: <ref name="Lincoln-1863" />{{Efn|"Four score and seven years ago..." —A. Lincoln, Gettysburg, Nov. 9, 1863}}. When using notes, you need to add a ==Notes== section at the bottom to contain them, just like ==References==, and use the {{Notelist}} template (analogous to {{Reflist}} ) to visualize them.
• The last way I know of is to use the |q= param of the {{rp}} template. See the documentation for details. HTH, Mathglot (talk) 00:02, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi Mathglot, thanks for the detailed explanation! I wonder whether it would be acceptable to misuse the {{rp}} syntax for non-book citations, like this? I'm unsure though; it clutters the text with the superscripted word "quote" and needs to be hovered over to display (also making it impractical to use a shorter word than "quote" as hovering might get difficult for users with a small font and/or who are clumsy with the mouse). In any case there doesn't seem to be a very clean way to do it. Oh well. Taylan (talk) 20:50, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm probably guilty of "misusing" different templates and things already, but it's not advisable to do that. You can always just use a home-brew^[hyphen?] solution for some things, though I wouldn't do that for a quotation, which seems to deserve better treatment that a tool-tip pop-up. Also, tool-tips have a maximum length, and a long quote might get truncated. Mathglot (talk) 21:17, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Figured out a modification of the {{efn}} method which I think is cool as far as linking the quotes back to the source; check out Mexican Legion of Honor, and let me know what you think. Mathglot (talk) 11:45, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Notes

References

Some baklava for you!

Great to see another wiki writer questioning the bias SheWhoSees (talk) 19:52, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Advice

Hey Taylan. I just came across your user page and thought I would offer some advice. You are allowed to gather evidence about editors here as long as you use it in a timely manner (see WP:POLEMIC). I see they have been up for nearly a month now and that could reasonably not be seen as timely. I would suggest removing them if you are not going to act upon them sometime very soon. No one can control what you do offline so you could store them there if you still want to keep them. Unless the user page is deleted (which may happen if one of the editors mentioned nominates it) the information will be present in the history. AIRcorn (talk) 21:18, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice, I've removed the content for now and also saved it offline. I haven't felt the need to turn it into an official complaint after all, especially since I think some amount of balance has begun to form. Taylan (talk) 14:10, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Sources

Please avoid using sources containing inflammatory language like the one you used today. It is not me "losing my shit", but rather requesting the use of sources with a modicum of professionally. The article from the Standard was much better. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:29, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

FYI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:Trans_man#Biological_vs_Social_View_of_Man — Preceding unsigned comment added by Userwoman (talk • contribs) 01:49, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry to keep bothering you about this, but can you add some comments to the RfC that I have created? Trans Man RfC Userwoman (talk) 02:21, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Feminist Current

The article Feminist Current has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Fails notability, the vast majority of the small amount of mentions of the website are from non notable sources.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ShimonChai (talk) 03:34, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification. You're right that few sources mention Feminist Current directly, but I think Wikipedia needs an overall better representation of contemporary (radical) feminism, where this page would be one of many within the "web" of such articles. Pages related to gender/trans issues already mention FC (and cite it) in the parts where they represent the radical feminist viewpoint, for instance. Pages about prostitution and related legislation should probably do the same. (I haven't checked yet how well they represent the feminist anti-prostitution position, especially in the contemporary.) Ditto for pornography. Further, I'm planning to add a page about Meghan E. Murphy (founder of FC) who has gotten somewhat prominent in recent years. Julie Bindel and Rachel R. Moran are somewhat connected with her as well, and Rachel Moran definitely needs a page as well, since she's been a leading force in prostitution related legislative changes in Ireland in recent years and had significant media exposure related to that. Taylan (talk) 17:42, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Pages about gender/trans issues shouldn't be citing it. Per the Wikipedia ruling about blogs as citations. Also, are you talking about this Meghan Murphy (notice that the vast majority of those articles which are already low in number aren't about her specifically)? I personally have no interest in coverage of topics, and am just interested in if it is notable or not / well cited. There is a major problem of large sections of Wikipedia pages relating to gender/feminism having sections written from a POV perspective, as well as original research without citations, and part of this is due to the degrading quality of what does and doesn't qualify as notable, as well as what does and doesn't qualify as fringe. ShimonChai (talk) 21:06, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

See Meghan Murphy which I've now created. She covers most of the first page of results when her name is googled and the first picture to appear is hers. Taylan (talk) 21:20, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

File:Meghan Murphy before Canadian Senate.jpg

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June 2018

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Trans woman. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 13:45, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Rivertorch, the reason for the edit warring is that other editors insist on reverting to a POV wording which is not supported by citations. Are you a moderator of Wikipedia? If so, I would like to hear the opinion of a moderator who has never touched transgender-related articles. If not, I will simply ignore your warning / ask you to bring a higher authority into play if you insist that I'm the one at fault. Taylan (talk) 19:59, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

1. The wording in question is in fact supported by citations in the body of the article, per WP policy. 2. "Being right" is not a justification for edit warring, per WP policy. 3. Holding a FRINGE POV does not provide a requirement that the article represent your POV equally, per FALSEBALANCE. Newimpartial (talk) 22:15, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Newimpartial is correct. Edit warring is prohibited regardless of who is right or wrong. Repeatedly changing to your preferred wording without first attaining clear consensus is permissible only to revert vandalism, copyright violations, or wording that flagrantly violates the policy dealing with biographical information on living persons. That you weren't aware of this isn't surprising, since you've made few edits and are still new to Wikipedia. What I find concerning is your stated willingness to continue a pattern of violating policies that experienced users have taken the trouble to advise you about.

Wikipedia does not have moderators. It grants various permissions to users, based on verified need and other factors. Users with a greatly expanded set of permissions are called adminstrators. If you'd like to seek an outside opinion from one of them, of course you're welcome to. However, insisting on an opinion from one "who has never touched transgender-related articles" is unlikely to go over well. Administrators have no special authority to resolve content disputes, and the fact that someone has edited on a given topic doesn't disqualify them from giving an impartial opinion or mean they cannot be considered disinterested when it comes to a particular article. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 05:38, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Further note (having checked the page history of Trans woman and seen what transpired while I was offline): You have continued to edit war after being warned, which means you having deliberately violated a policy of which you've been made aware. If I were to report you now, you would be blocked. Since your last edit was to place a maintenance template (which was a totally legitimate action), rather than revert, I will hold off on making that report. But no more reversions, please. Regardless of what you consider NPOV, you must not edit against consensus. If you cannot accept that, you're what we call not here and should find someplace else on the Internet more in line with your requirements. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 05:53, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

@Rivertorch: Fine, if those are the absolute rules, I'll have to play by them, but it's fairly clear here that rules are being misused to keep hold over an article and prevent fixing the POV wording. (Specifically, a group of biased and like-minded editors reaching a biased consensus among themselves. I'm not claiming this is intentional though.) You say that someone having edited transgender-related articles doesn't disqualify them from having an impartial position, and literally speaking that's of course true, but the pattern I've observed ever since the first time I began editing such articles is that editors behave in biased ways that range from subtle to completely absurd. I've had people flame at me, try to report me for rules I didn't violate, use blatant misinterpretations of Wikipedia rules to revert my edits, keep insisting that reliable sources I provided are not reliable, etc., and most of the time the editors eventually "gave up" because the rules, reliable sources, etc. were ultimately on my side. (Obviously this doesn't apply to all my contributions; many times I realize that I went ahead of myself, and in those cases I'm completely fine with my edits being reverted and don't tend to make a fuss over it.) All in all, this behavioral pattern I keep observing diminishes my trust in the rules, or more accurately, how much I'm able to take it seriously when people claim that I'm in breach of rules in the first place. I'll do my best to abide by the actual rules, but I won't let people use questionable interpretations or applications of rules to essentially bully me out of the effort to make transgender-related articles neutral and fair to all notable viewpoints. I hope you understand. By the way, if you're interested, the history of my user-page contains my past records of biased behavior on part of some editors. Last time it ended up not being necessary to turn those into a "formal complaint" (or whatever), but if I keep facing such issues again and again I'll have to get back to documenting them and bringing them to the attention of administrators. I hope it won't have to reach that point and instead we'll be able to settle on neutral wording in various articles without such mutual pettiness. (Note: This is not a threat to you or any other individual. As I've noted before, the biased behavior belongs to a whole group of editors who all together create this problem probably without even fully realizing.) Taylan (talk) 18:14, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

@Newimpartial: Please cite the exact passages from the sources which make it clear that trans women are literally women, and are not just referred to as such as a matter of politeness. (Preferrably in the talk page of trans woman and not here though.) Taylan (talk) 18:25, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

I have already pointed to the source, and examined the way the sourcing is inserted in the article, on its talk page. Newimpartial (talk) 19:01, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Nomination of Meghan Murphy for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Meghan Murphy is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Meghan Murphy until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Bearcat (talk) 19:28, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Maintenance templates

I appreciate that it's the first time you have added a maintenance template to an article, as you did at Trans woman. If you add a tag like {{NPOV}}, it's customary to add a |reason= parameter. You could easily have missed this, since it isn't documented on the doc page, but you can add that parameter with every maintenance template, regardless whether it's documented or not. (In case it's not obvious, it's where you record why you placed the template.) In addition, please use the |talk= param to provide a link to where the talk page discussion is now going on. Mathglot (talk) 07:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Mathglot, I indeed looked for the reason attribute in the documentation and left it out as I couldn't find it. I've added the talk page section attribute too now. Taylan (talk) 18:19, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Meghan Murphy before Canadian Senate.jpg

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:42, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Feminist Current logo.png

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Thanks for uploading File:Feminist Current logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

The Article "Trans woman"

Hi!

I have noticed that you are passionate about the topics discussed in Trans woman. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. I have also noticed that you have expressed an interest in providing a neutral point of view. That is encouraging!

Here's the thing. I've noticed that things often do not go well for people -- I am definitely including myself here -- who begin their run as a Wikipedia editor with certain tendencies -- tendencies like editing a small group of articles with related topics; focusing on making the articles "right" to the (near) exclusion of any other kind of edit; and making protracted arguments on Talk pages.

In my experience things end in two ways for people like us:

• Somebody calls ArbCom on us, and we have to decide whether we want to face sanctions or close our accounts to spare ourselves from the embarrassment. I saw that happen once to someone who fought hard to make major changes to an article without regard for reliability or Wikipedia's guidelines. And it was a little sad because he was obviously passionate about the topics he was interested in, and passionate editors often make the best editors.
• We become more interested in making Wikipedia better -- not just by making the articles we care about "right" but also by making articles we do not care as much about right, making the articles we care about conform to Wikipedia guidelines (even when they seem to fall woefully short of letting us tell people what's "right"), or by making the article we care about more readable. I think I started to get Wikipedia sometime after people stopped high-fiving me on my Talk page for fighting the Man and around the time I got a mere "thank you" for doing something about a stray left parenthesis for an article in which the stakes did not seem high for me.

(I suppose it's obvious that I think things have ended the latter way for me, but I'm still learning.)

At this point I suppose I could tell you I could give you some hyperlinked abbreviations, but I imagine you have seen the most important ones already. All I will say regarding them is that I recommend that you give them all a read and remember to ask yourself, "Is this what I am doing?" On a related note, I have found that when I admit I am wrong to someone, they usually respond by toning down the rage (although on at least one occasion I had to do it twice), and when someone admits they are wrong to me, it makes it easier to assume good faith.

And if you want some instant gratification, here is a little something I have learned: When I look at the words listed at Words to Watch and make appropriate deletions from an article that I believe fails NPOV, and even when I delete something like a dozen words, my edits go unchallenged. A caveat: I have tried this on some pretty contentious articles but never one with discretionary sanctions, so if you want to try this, starting small might be best.

I hope we give each other the opportunity to collaborate.

-- Marie Paradox (talk) 05:11, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

I have the feeling of Déjà vu. Userwoman (talk) 22:04, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Notification of discretionary sanctions on articles related to gender or GamerGate

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in (a) GamerGate, (b) any gender-related dispute or controversy, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. (You are being notified after you edited the articles Trans man and Trans woman.)

Marie Paradox (talk | contribs) 19:18, 28 July 2018 (UTC)Template:Z33