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Is this article necessary?

Not to deviate from the gravity of the issue, but is George Floyd as a person noteworthy? To me it seems the only thing he is known for is the unfortunate manner of his death. Aside from that, had he not been arrested and killed, this page would not exist. When people type "George Floyd" in the search box it is likely that they are seeking information on the police brutality case and expecting a redirect to "Killing of George Floyd", not his life story.

I support incorporating/merging certain details in this article into the Killing of George Floyd article, but certain other information such as his "Discography" (which do not link anywhere else) should be omitted or used in other existing articles e.g. Screwed Up Click.

Again, as with most people throughout the world I am sad and outraged over how he met his end, but at the same time we need to keep things balanced in Wikipedia.

Yekshemesh (talk) 03:10, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, in my opinion George Floyd as a person does not seem to meet the notability standards set for noteworthy. Specifically, George Floyd's role in the incident was that he was stopped by the police and murdered, his discography or where he was born played no role in that. I agree with rolling major biographical details into the Killing of George Floyd article.

Sean0987 (talk) 04:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Where did George Floyd die?

It says in Minneapolis, but where? Wich street or intersection? 97.113.131.139 (talk) 19:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He was pronounced dead at 9:25 p.m. at the Hennepin County Medical Center. The knee-on-the-neck, which left him unconscious and pulseless, happened at the intersection of E. 38th St. and Chicago Ave South, roughly between 8:20 and 8:30 p.m. I'm not sure if being pronounced dead at 9:25 at the hospital means he was still alive (in some medical sense) when he arrived at the hospital. See Killing of George Floyd for details and sources. Levivich ^{[dubious – discuss]} 19:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

so many related articles...

I think it's become kind of silly that we have multiple articles about his death, the protests, etc., but not a bio. This seems to be no longer a matter of notability based on one incident. —valereee (talk) 17:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Valereee: My issue with this biography is that it's basically a subset of the information in the article Killing of George Floyd. Also, adding a biography does not solve the problem of multiple articles about George Floyd's death, but instead exacerbates the problem. I'm sure that once the dust settles he will get a proper biography, but while events are unfolding it seems very confusing. --Elephanthunter (talk) 18:09, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Elephanthunter, a lot of the bio information that was in Killing of GF shouldn't be in that article, and I've moved quite a bit of it to this bio. —valereee (talk) 18:28, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I feel like this page is fine but it shouldn't be a reason to remove info from the Killing of George Floyd page. Because that is the one people are seeing right now. Also, we need to make sure people can easily find links between this page, Killing of George Floyd, and George Floyd protests. The Spirit of Oohoowahoo (talk) 19:02, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The various articles are a little confusing, I have to admit. Perennial Student (talk) 19:36, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Valereee: This will cause an overlap of information with Killing of George Floyd, as is already happening (eg the reference to the state autopsy which is repeated, for balance we're now going to have to add the independent autopsy, and as you can see, this quickly becomes repetition of material). Although some page splits and merges are needed, I think they're currently not being discussed enough and being done hastily. I think perhaps some more waiting should've been done before creating this page. I'm not sure how much more can be elaborated here. It may end up being the case that much of the information in the killing page should be moved here or elsewhere, like the Rodney King article, but I think it's a bit premature currently. The current design might just cause confusion, poorer access to information by readers, and repetitiveness. ProcrasinatingReader (talk) 19:56, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ProcrasinatingReader, overlap of information isn't a problem for WP. Most of our articles overlap to some degree with other articles. We deal with each subject as if it were independent; if we can use information from another article, that's great! New York (city) can use information from Manhattan. —valereee (talk) 02:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Valereee: Yup, we discussed on the other merge discussion :). I was more concerned with the direction some users' edits to this page were going - to possibly duplicating content copiously. That would be pretty excessive imo, if we're spending paragraphs talking about the same aspects of the death as another page, on the exact same topic. But I don't have much opposition to expanding on the background, and other topics, of the individual here. ProcrasinatingReader (talk) 02:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mention of autopsy: balance

The mention of autopsy added in this revision (@Perennial Student) may create some controversy, since that medical opinion is disputed. I don't think that can be written about here without equal reference to the autopsy by Floyd's family which came to a different conclusion. I think we should either include both, or none. ProcrasinatingReader (talk) 23:47, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Precedence should be given to the official account, but I don't oppose the inclusion of the private autopsy. Perennial Student (talk) 00:22, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An editor helpfully added the family autopsy to the article. Perennial Student (talk) 02:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Details of home invasion

Note: I've been informed by an editor that I'm posting defamatory information. The UK newspaper Daily Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html) has posted extracts from the police documentation regarding the 2007 home invasion case. The documents state that mr. Floyd (along with others) invaded a private house and put a gun to the stomach of a woman. There have been further claims made about the race and state of that woman which I can't confirm on the basis of the documents in the Daily Mail article (I apologize for making the claim in the previous version of this post). If I understand the abbreviation "yoa" correctly, there was a year-old child in the house. This seems like relevant information and reference to include in the article, bearing in mind that it by now includes a discography.46.109.77.155 (talk) 03:18, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Daily Mail is not considered a reliable source on Wikipedia. While the home invasion side has been added by me (as it's supported by the Guardian and other sources), the Daily Mail facts are omitted precisely because they are not reliable. The info in the Daily Mail cannot be "vouched for" by a reliable source, per WP:SYNTH. Perennial Student (talk) 03:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you see the article? It includes scanned documents, that's what I'm basing this on, not the article itself. I find it REALLY hard to believe that even Daily Mail would dare forge court documents regarding a recently murdered man!! 46.109.77.155 (talk) 03:33, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The "consensus" section regarding Daily Mail that you quoted states that it is "generally unreliable" and should not be used when other sources exist. However, other sources do not exist. The consensus mentions "poor fact checking, sensationalism, and flat-out fabrication": the court document includes the name and the correct date, which seems to exclude poor fact checking; flat-out fabrication seems totally improbable - it would require them to decide to forge an official US court document along with signatures and seals! And while it is sensationalist, that would only concern notability. Reminder, the article currently includes a discography, so standard of notability seems to be low. 46.109.77.155 (talk) 03:47, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"As a result, the Daily Mail should not be used for determining notability, nor should it be used as a source in articles." The over-lords have spoken. Perennial Student (talk) 03:52, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Perennial Student, it may be that reliable sources will eventually support what the Daily Mail is saying, but right now we don't know. Would you like to clarify what you mean by "the over-lords have spoken"? —valereee (talk) 04:07, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Should this remain on this talk page, I would like to add a little fact-check regarding some rumors floating around on youtube and facebook. <REDACTED> 46.109.77.155 (talk) 04:23, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're free to make any requested changes you'd like, if you back them up with reliable sources. Best to do them in new sections so they don't get lost in this one. Perennial Student (talk) 04:30, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@46.109.77.155: I've redacted the rumors, which are also unsourced. Please see the policy WP:BDP on recently dead people. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 05:01, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All right, but you do understand that if respected outlets simply ignore this story (clearly for PC and not sourcing reasons), conspiracy theorists and far-right people will run away with it, and with some justification, because you seem to be intent on whitewashing the man! I've been editing wikipedia on and off for years, and I've never had a comment of mine removed from the TALK PAGE just for the sin of mentioning a rumor, that I explicitly marked as a rumor and even debunked in the same sentence! 46.109.77.155 (talk) 05:41, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Which part of the WP:BDP policy you mentioned applies to comments in talk pages, according to you? It seems to be about "articles". 46.109.77.155 (talk) 05:47, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See the top of that WP:BLP page: Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page.—Bagumba (talk) 06:17, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He's not a living person. Obviously you've put together the strictest definitions from different parts of the policy to deduce that "the editor can do what he wants" and "talk page posts need to be sourced". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.109.77.155 (talk) 06:32, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"... because you seem to be intent on whitewashing the man": See WP:NOTFORUM. If you said it's a rumor, and you "debunked" it (, and it was unsourced), this conversation should be over.—Bagumba (talk) 06:24, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well you tell that to Steven Crowder who's running away with the <REDACTED> and <REDACTED> version of the story because there's no one debunking it, no one even touching the story with a very long stick. 46.109.77.155 (talk) 06:34, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Valereee Did you mistake me for the OP here? If not, I didn't mean to imply that the DM* claims could never be supported by an RS. For clarification, I mean the policy about the Daily Mail has been effected by others and it's not for me to make or change it. Given OP was trying to convince me to disapply the policy. Perennial Student (talk) 04:28, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 65: / Line 65: @@
 ::::::::::He's not a living person. Obviously you've put together the strictest definitions from different parts of the policy to deduce that "the editor can do what he wants" and "talk page posts need to be sourced".  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/46.109.77.155|46.109.77.155]] ([[User talk:46.109.77.155#top|talk]]) 06:32, 5 June 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
 ::::::::{{tq|"... because you seem to be intent on whitewashing the man"}}: See [[WP:NOTFORUM]].  If you said it's a rumor, and you "debunked" it (, and it was unsourced), this conversation should be over.—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 06:24, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
+:::::::::Well you tell that to Steven Crowder who's running away with the <REDACTED> and <REDACTED> version of the story because there's no one debunking it, no one even touching the story with a very long stick. [[Special:Contributions/46.109.77.155|46.109.77.155]] ([[User talk:46.109.77.155|talk]]) 06:34, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 :::::{{u|Valereee}} Did you mistake me for the OP here? If not, I didn't mean to imply that the DM* claims could never be supported by an RS. For clarification, I mean the policy about the Daily Mail has been effected by others and it's not for me to make or change it. Given OP was trying to convince me to disapply the policy. [[User:Perennial Student|Perennial Student]] ([[User talk:Perennial Student|talk]]) 04:28, 5 June 2020 (UTC)