Talk:2021 Atlanta spa shootings

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2021 Atlanta spa shootings should be bolded

That's the name that most news orgs have given it. And bolding the name is done on every mass shooting page I can think of.

Media orgs universally refer to the whole incident as a "shooting" or "killing" at Atlanta spas:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/us/metro-atlanta-shootings/index.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/3-dead-shooting-georgia-massage-parlor-suspect-loose-n1261262

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/crime/spa-killings-atlanta-cherokee/85-d8b55ae6-d3e5-44d2-975c-6334bcd27633

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/least-7-dead-following-shootings-3-spas-atlanta-area-police-say/KLS7FRQMANEXHMOM3RQFJA6EQM/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/16/atlanta-spa-shootings/

Examples of mass shooting wiki pages with bolded name at start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Muskogee_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting

Jasper0333 (talk) 02:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Let's please not do that. It took time and perspective before those titles were adopted. Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting is not parallel to this. Leave the lead sentence factual and descriptive. -- Fuzheado | Talk 02:34, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There are also many, many, MANY other mass shooting articles that don't have the names bolded:

And those are just the examples I plucked out of Mass shootings in the United States#Deadliest mass shootings since 1949. I know of many other examples too.

In addition, none of the sources that you provided gave a singular common name.

CNN: "shootings at 3 metro Atlanta spas".
NBC: "Atlanta-area massage parlors shootings".
11Alive: "Spa killing spree [...] in metro Atlanta".
KIRO7: "shootings at 3 Atlanta-area spas".
Washington Post: "shootings at 3 metro Atlanta spas".

So, judging by these titles, there is a small plethora of potential title names: "metro Atlanta spa shootings", "Atlanta-area massage parlor shootings", "metro Atlanta spa killings", and "Atlanta-area spa shootings". Since the sources are conflicted over calling the locations "spas" or "massage parlors" and using the "metro Atlanta" or "Atlanta area" monikers (you even admit the whole incident is being called either "shooting" or killing"), that indicates that, no, there is NO single name for this Wikipedia article to pinpoint on.

Per WP:COMMONNAME, "some topics have multiple names, and some names have multiple topics; this can lead to disagreement about which name should be used for a given article's title. Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's 'official' name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above. When there is no single, obvious name that is demonstrably the most frequently used for the topic by these sources, editors should reach a consensus as to which title is best by considering these criteria directly." Until a name can be agreed on, it is best if there is no bolded name at all.

Love of Corey (talk) 02:46, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Should this article title have a date? I don't believe there has ever been another Atlanta spa shooting. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 07:10, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See this 2012 shooting. WWGB (talk) 07:26, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. OK. That's heartbreaking. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 07:50, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See MOS:BOLDTITLE. It isn't compulsory to bold a title, particularly if there are various possible titles.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:48, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pardon my interference, but Columbine High School massacre is bolded. Isn't it basically the same? --CoryGlee (talk) 15:19, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CoryGlee, no. See above for examples where the majority are not bolded, even ones that are much more well-known (ie. Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, University of Texas, et al) - Fuzheado | Talk 15:38, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No motive has been established

"While no motive has yet been established, the incidents took place in businesses that employed people of Asian background, amidst an increase in anti-Asian hate crimes nationwide.[4]"

Should be

"No motive has been established.[4]"

The rest is dubious speculation. There is a slew of angles of motivation here. We should not be jumping on the emotional bandwagon of even mentioning race until there is some certainty beyond the presumption of some factor of psychopathy. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 14:20, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is 20 minutes old: "Neither Cherokee County nor Atlanta investigators described a motive for any of the shootings.

There is also no confirmation that the shootings were racially motivated." (CNN) - Floydian ^τ _¢ 14:52, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article title change?

Requested move 17 March 2021

It has been proposed in this section that 2021 Atlanta spa shootings be renamed and moved to 2021 Metro Atlanta spa shootings.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

2021 Atlanta spa shootings → 2021 Metro Atlanta spa shootings – Acworth is a separate city. TomCat4680 (talk) 21:09, 17 March 2021 (UTC) Shouldn't the article title be 2021 Metro Atlanta spa shootings since one of them was in Acworth which is 30 miles from the city of Atlanta? The current title is like calling the article about a spree shooting's which had three locations "2021 Detroit shootings" because two were in Detroit proper but one of them was in Pontiac (~30 miles away too), not Detroit ; the proper title would be 2021 Metro Detroit shootings. TomCat4680 (talk) 20:29, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and boldy moved it. I'll update any links to it that I can find too. TomCat4680 (talk) 20:40, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As per WP:BRD I have moved it back for discussion. The governing policy for article titles like this is WP:COMMONNAME which prefers pragmatism and find-ability over strictness. If you look at other articles, like 2017 Las Vegas shooting, even though technically it took place in Paradise, we don't call it "2017 Paradise shooting." We had the same issue with November 2015 Paris attacks vs Saint-Denis, when the attacks didn't really happen "in Paris." You're welcome to discuss it more, but over and over again, we have preferred the simpler and more straight forward name. -- Fuzheado | Talk 20:59, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This situation is way different though. Acworth is a separate independent city and its 30 miles from Atlanta. Paradise isn't a city, it's an unincorporated town that borders Las Vegas but because it contains part of the Las Vegas Strip, it's (unofficially) called Las Vegas for simplicity. TomCat4680 (talk) 21:15, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You've been around long enough that I thought you would be used to this naming convention. Look at the Paris bombings article. It "took place on Friday 13 November 2015 in Paris, France and the city's northern suburb, Saint-Denis." It is "located just north of Paris in the commune of Saint-Denis." link. Look at the article on D.C. sniper attacks where the vast majority were not in D.C. proper. -- Fuzheado | Talk 21:26, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Where can I find this "naming convention" rule at? People who live in Acworth don't say they live in Atlanta just like people who in live in Pontiac don't say they live in Detroit. The Las Vegas/Paradise one doesn't support your case, as explained above. I remember the DC sniper case and Paris shootings though and that's what I always heard the news call them so you're probably right about them.TomCat4680 (talk) 21:32, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relevancy of Race

@Vaselineeeeeeee: All three sources prominently state the race of the victims in either the headline or the first few paragraphs of the article. Clearly they found it relevant enough to include, so I'm just basing it off of that. However, I don't think it's appropriate to say he was racially motivated (yet) until further investigation is concluded. ChipotleHater (talk) 21:34, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]