Talk:Dalida

NOT a French singer!!!

Dalida was an Egyptian-Italian, period! She was a singer in France, where she became famous but NOT a French singer!!!! She became famous in France, where she sang in French, with a dreadfully accented Italian accent. She couldn't speak proper French, that is NOT a French person! At best, she was Francophone, the word you wanted. If you're gonna call her French, might as well call Jodie Foster French, cos her pronunciation is flawless, and you don't hear her claiming to be French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.178.137.210 (talk) 07:14, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

She was French by virtue of her marriage to a French citizen. LynwoodF (talk) 08:35, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Yeah right! She sang with a THICK ITALIAN ACCENT! How much French can she be?! Silly! Yours is the most ridiculous claim LynwoodF and you know it! It's as dumb as calling Olivia De Havilland French because she moved there in 1953 and her last name is obviously French and she probably married a few French men. Or just as dumb as referring to her as Japanese cos she was born there. Someone please FIX THIS! Dalida was NOT French. She was an Arab, of Egyptian blood whose parents emigrated from Cairo to Italy. From there she moved to France, a country that "adopted" her as a star, with open arms. To call her "French" is to deny her most exotic quality, which made her a success in Paris. Not to mention, an insult to Egyptians and Italians everywhere, by denying them their "celebrity heritage", for lack of better term! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.178.137.210 (talk) 07:02, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Nationality of singer/Singer's affiliation to state

Fisrt of all I would ask other users that don't agree (because they obviously look st this from fan side) to not insult me that I am racist. I dont act like one.

1 I never said I was a site owner, I said how I'm president of a Fan club so that's why I think I know best what to write about Dalida. 2 Yes, administrators warned me because I have constantly abolished someones editing that Dalida is also "Egyptian-Italian singer" without going to discussion page. That was my fault and I apologized because I forgot on the discussion page.

Now, Dalida has never had Egyptian nationality. Dalida was born in 1933 in Egypt and automatically gained Italian nationality through jus sanguinis of both Italian parents. In 1961 she replaced it with French nationality through marriage with French citizen.

Singer affiliation with a state is another. That means if some singer is Egyptian-Italian, it doesn't need to have anything to do with his/her nationality. The singer can be half Portugeese half English like Shawn Mendes and as he is be born in Canada he god the canadian nationality. As he lives in Canada and makes his career from there, he is an Canadian singer, no matter how much fame and love he recieves from frans from USA, UK, Portugal etc...

Same thing for Dalida. She made her whole career from France so she is French singer, o matter that many people from Italy loved her and that she was in their Top5 favorite singers. Even Egypt, so what thay Salma ya salama and Helwa ya baladi are songs about love to homeland? It doesnt mean that she is Egyptian singer just because she loved her homeland Egypt where she spent her childhood... amd looking in numbers, Dalida recprded 443 sings in French, 127 in Italian amd 5 in Egyptian.

As far as I'm concerned, I think that Dalida was French who enjoyed highly successfull international career. The correct answer of this dilemma should be in the "personal life" section. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 22:26, 8 August 2018 (UTC)---------------------

You can cry all you want that you're not racist, basically what you are doing is appropriating a colored person for "white people". She was NOT Italian, she was NOT French she was Egyptian, by blood, by birth. She didn't even live in France until she was in her late 20's or her 30s. So if I move to China as a young adult, and start singing there with a strong American accent, that's gonna make me (a) Chinese (singer) according to you?! Neither her speech nor her demeanor, neither her culture nor her blood were French! She didn't even have a piece of paper that said French, and even if she were to have acquired one, your passport is not your DNA, your race, YOUR LIFE, FCOL! She was a famous singer IN France, period!

There is a HUGE difference between citizenship (aka NATIONALITY) which is nothing but a piece of paper, and your DNA, your blood, your race, which makes you what you truly are. PS: Dalida did NOT possess any papers as being from France, neither by birth or naturalization: she had Italian and Egyptian dual nationality. How many nationalities are you trying to attribute to her, and why argue against her blood when that is what is being disputed here!??!?! And you truly are not racist, huh? "French singer" implies she is French by blood or birth. She was NOT! She was neither. She was a foreigner, graciously accepted among the French. In fact, she became famous in France due to this: her exotic quality, her accent and FOREIGN demeanor. Otherwise, she would have been queuing at the unemployment office with the rest of the Frenchwomen who were lovely and could sing!

How many French people do you know who are of French birth and blood and speak with a strong Italian (or foreign) accent?! I rest my case. IF you're not racist, then don't deny Dalida her true birthright, blood, DNA and race. Otherwise it makes you ignorant (this is not an insult, the word is to be taken literally here, not by the insult derivative it's turned into, look it up!) and it makes just as bad as those Holocaust-deniers. Denial is denial and denial is A LIE! The truth doesn't cater to your denial, your personal feelings, your delusional entitlement that thinks you can appropriate Dalida and rewrite her birth blood and DNA just because you are a self-appointed "president" of your own club. Grow up! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.178.137.210 (talk) 07:09, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Style

DalidaEditor I'm pinging you because you've obviously put a huge amount of work into this very detailed article. I wonder though whether you have considered whether the style of the prose is appropriate for an encyclopaedia. The lede and the 'Childhood in Cairo' sections are very good - factual, straightforward prose providing relevant details. After that however, it starts to read like a biography, or even a fan site. The language is very colourful and effusive, which can be great in the right context, but what we should be aiming for here is formal, impersonal and dispassionate. If you have a look at WP:WBA, there is a lot of guidance there about tone. Is this something you would be interested in working towards?Girth Summit (talk) 14:55, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Girth Summit Thank you very much, I am glad that you pinged me because in this way someoneat least explained how the work I did is good, but not suitable for wiki. Exactly that is problem of this article, as I'm a huge fan I'm also trying to complete article in as much as neutral point of wiew style, plus my English is not that perfect because my maternal thounge is Croatian (7 deflications).... so I will keep my mind on this as I continue, but is the "Career" part until 1960 good? I uploaded it recently.. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 21:58, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

I'll have a look at that section tomorrow and get back to you; if you like, I'll start proposing rewrites of a paragraphs to tidy up the English and adopt a more encyclopedic tone? Girth Summit (talk) 23:14, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

DalidaEditor I've had a look at the Career section, and I think that the same issue with tone appears there. There is a great deal of unnecessary detail, which would be appropriate for a book of biography, but not for an encyclopaedia article - we are trying to summarise key information and present it dispassionately. For example, the entire 'First contract and debut record' could be reduced to this:

After the performance at the Olympia, Dalida met with Lucien and performed Barco Negro, a recent hit by Amália Rodrigues. He arranged an audition for her with Eddie Barclay, and on the 2nd of May 1956 she signed a renewable one-year recording contract with him. Bruno Coquatrix planned a series of concerts for her, including repeat performances at the Olympia, two weeks in Bombino, and a tour of the provinces. Her first record "Madonna" was recorded in June as an EP, and was first played on August 28, 1956 on Radio Europe n°1. The record sold well, and was followed by "Le Torrent" a month later which was also successful.

This retains the important information, while maintaining a much more encyclopaedic tone.Girth Summit (talk) 09:57, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

DalidaEditorI've amended the first few paragraphs of the text to what I believe is a more appropriate tone. I've tried to keep all of the existing references, and all of the pertinent information, while cutting out peripheral details, simplifying the language and making it more impersonal. You might want to look at the section now entitled 'Decisive Dice Game' - the original text was a bit difficult to understand. Is Mathglot right about this being a machine translation?Girth Summit (talk) 14:19, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Well the text was obviously not enough understandanble so you messed up the fact that 421 dice game had to deal about will men attend the singing contest. 3 different biographies and movies from 2005 and 2017 explained this happening like this: "Morisse, Barclay and Coquatrix are in cafe. They can't decide will they go to cinema and leave contest to the jury, or go to contest in person. Coquatrix goes outside for car and leaves them to decide. They play 421 wich leads them to Olympia." This event is one of most important ones in career of Dalida because the 421 game made three men discover her. If they went to cinema, she would have finished up just as other contestants... in cabarets. So this is why it musn't be messed up. I propose this:

"Prior to Les Numéros 1 de demain, other two co-producers Eddie Barclay, owner of Barclay Records, and Lucien Morisse, artistic director of of newly established radio station Europe n°1, met discuss of attending it. Barclay preferred the idea of going to the cinema, whereas Morisse the Olympia. They settled their disagreement by playing 421, a dice game, which Morisse won. As the owner of the Olympia Bruno Coquatrox joined them, they were introduced to Dalida and all three were greatly impressed with her performance. The three men went on to play a large part in launching her career." Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 02:24, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

OK, understood. Your revision is better; I've made a couple of grammatical changes and inserted. Girth Summit (talk) 07:01, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Translation from French

(edit conflict) Various portions of this article appear to have been machine translated from French. One give-away about this, is the use of the historical present tense, very typical in French for reporting past events, and very atypical in English. There are numerous other indications as well, including convoluted syntax and awkward translations ("applauded by all of Paris", "her three-week-long triumph of concerts", "soon completed her province tour"), grammar issues ("the common consequence of all hers new releases", "Regardless to them she refuses without hesitation..."), vocabulary issues ("she promoted her energic version", "one of her evergreen hits", "The record obtains a success of esteem"), and transliteration issues ("Hava Naguila", correct in French, but "Hava Nagila" in English). Such problems can be found all over. I've added a {{rough translation}} template to one section, but probably it would be better to tag the top of the article, since multiple sections are affected, though not all. Mathglot (talk) 22:19, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Dalida Editor, if you're a native Croatian speaker, you must know French or be using machine translation from French; am I right? Mathglot (talk) 22:22, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't know Croatian, but on further examination according to at least one source, Croatian uses the historical present as well. Literally reverse-translating "evergreen hits" gives zimzelenih hitova (m-noun genitive pl. form; nom. sg. zimzeleni hiti) which have a few hundred search results. From context this appears to mean, "perennial hits" or "all-time greatest hits" or something like that. Guessing now this is just personal or machine-assisted translation from Croatian. (OTOH, "Hava Naguila" is 100x rarer in Croatian than "Nagila"; maybe a Croatian/French bilingual?) Mathglot (talk) 19:34, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Yes, everything you said is true. The best I can do is to further upload text following wiki parametres, but it will still need a large help from other wikipedians. Btw native Croatian with 10 years of experience with English, and 5 with French. I am noted as perfect speaker, but my mother tongue messes it up as I have Croatian grammar rules in my mind.Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 02:10, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi DalidaEditor, if I understand you correctly you are saying that this text is indeed machine translated - is that right? If so, can you confirm the source of the text that you are translating - have you written this yourself in Croation, and are machine-translating it into English? Or is this coming from a published source that you are translating? ThanksGirth Summit (talk) 14:17, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• No, this text is from my head and I wrote it down in English immediately, not that I translated. But the informations are not invented by me haha, I learned all this from books and from websites of Dalida. All books I read are in French so some words and sentences I didn't quite understood so those ones are translated via google translate. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 17:16, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, misunderstood you there - I thought when you were said 'everything you said is true', that included the part about machine translation. I was worried that we might have some WP:COPYVIO issues.

What do you think about the changes I've been making so far? I'm not as familiar with the subject matter as you are, but I hope I've retained the key information while adopting a more appropriate tone. Do you think that you would be able to write in this sort of style with any further stuff you want to add? I plan to continue editing like this when I have time, but since I am unfamiliar with the subject matter it is sometimes taking me some time to work out what it is saying - since you are much more of an expert on the subject, if you felt able to write in a similar tone you might be able to make edits much more quickly, which I could then check for grammar? Girth Summit (talk) 17:50, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

DalidaEditor, here's another possible suggestion: when an English-speaking reader not familiar with Croatian or French reads your text, it can sometimes be difficult to correct it into proper English, unless we know what your original intent was. An example is the "evergreen hits" example above, which clearly comes from literal translation from Croatian; this took me quite a bit of work to figure out, and even then, I couldn't be certain I knew what your intent was. In a case like that, can you please either leave hidden text descriptions in-line in the original Croatian (or French), showing what you originally meant, or bring those expressions here to the talk page and ask native speakers for translations?

Continuing the "evergreen hits" example, you could code it like this in the article:

• "Histoire d'un amour" later became one of her evergreen hits.<!--HR: "Histoire d'un amour" kasnije je postao jedan od njezinih zimzelenih hitova.-->

The second part will be visible only to editors, and not to someone reading the article. Another editor can come along later, see your intent from the hidden Croatian text and fix the English accordingly, and remove the hidden text. So it might end up like this:

• "Histoire d'un amour" later became one of her top hits of all time.

Make sense? If you are attempting to translate or use text you have read in French, but are not certain how to render in English, you can just {{ping}} me here on the talk page and I will give you the proper English for it. Please do not use machine translation for French you do not understand; bring it to me, instead. Adding Girth Summit. Mathglot (talk) 07:24, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Oh no I didn't copied literal text. And yes, this helps in future and I will use it. Regarding evergreen; evergreen is english word that indicates that something is always green/young, fresh, new. In Croatia we use word "zimzelen" for trees that have leaves during winter "zim-zima-winter", and word evergreen is actually translated as vazdazelen(always green). Now, evergreen is word that here we all know as English word, and use it only for describing a song that was recorded long time ago(usually songs of 40s, 50s and 60s) and that are for all times- will never get old, can be listened always.

Writing this now I've just realized that for English speakers this was completely confusioning use of word, so the better way would be "one of well remembered songs"... I am not quite sure how to describe song of a singer, that is one of severals songs that are still well remembered. But it is unneccesarry now because proposed edit by Girth on my talk is completely fine!Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 01:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

The type of old song that remains popular is called an "old standard" in English. The term "golden oldie" is sometimes used, but has a slightly different connotation. Mathglot (talk) 10:13, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Description of singing style

Hi DalidaEditor I'm looking at the start of the 1960-1966 section, which begins with this sentence:

• Dalida entered the 1960s with exotic-high vocal style songs with low speed.

Can you expand on what this is intended to convey? I understand that 'low speed' means a slow tempo, but 'exotic-high vocal style' - does it means that she uses high notes? Or that she is very dramatic and expressive in her vocal style? Or something else? Thanks! Girth Summit (talk) 00:25, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Can we deal with it later, when we finish Career secrion the next move will be making new secrion "Artistry"?Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 17:29, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Question

Hi DalidaEditor, another question. The 1967 - 1973 section has the following as the second sentence:

• She sang the song at the Sanremo Music Festival in January 1967, but she didn't pass.

What does it mean, 'she didn't pass' - was it a competition? Can you expand on this a bit please so I understand how to amend this? Thanks! Girth Summit (talk) 00:30, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

My plan is to completely change that section soon. I will show you the suggestion.Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 17:29, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

50s section

Hello Girth Summit, I have last few proposals to make in 50s section until I show you my new text for 1960-1966. I found out that Dalida had names for her tours, and that her singing tours, that followed cyclist race "Tour de france", were named "Tour de France avec Dalida" or on posters shortened as "TDF avec Dalida" (Tour of France with Dalida), with an addition of year of tour at the end. So I suggest changes in title and in article;

Gondolier and first TDF avec Dalida

Over Christmas in 1957, Dalida released "Gondolier" wich became her biggest hit since Bambino, earning her third golden disc. Topping international charts, it's B side song "Pardon" also proved popular as it topped charts in Canada. In March, "Dans le bleu de ciel bleu" was released and replaced Gondolier on peak position in France. This release was followed by her receipt of the RMC award, which she went on to win for six consecutive years.

In June, she embarked upon a "TDF avec Dalida 58" tour (Tour de France avec Dalida). During the summer, she performed in Algiers, supporting the morale of French soldiers who fought in Algerian War. In July, she recieved Coq d'or award for song "Les Gitans". Around this time, she had five songs simultaneously in the Top 10, a record that she still holds.

In September Dalida played supporting roles in two B movies; in "Rapt au deuxième bureau" and "Brigade des mœurs". On October 9, she again performed at Bobino, this time for three weeks as the headline performer, where she promoted her last release Come prima, wich became end of year hit and chart topper of France and Belgium. Its B side "Si je pouvais revivre un jour ma vie" peaked number one in Canada. By the end of the year, she had received three more golden discs, and again compiled previously released EPs on two new albums; "Gondolier" and "Les Gitans".

CordiallyDalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 00:19, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

DalidaEditor, I've made a few edits to the text below for spelling and clarity. If you agree, please go ahead and insert into the article.

Over Christmas in 1957, Dalida released "Gondolier" which became her biggest hit since Bambino, earning her third golden disc. Topping international charts, its B side "Pardon" also proved popular, reaching the top of the Canadian charts. In March, "Dans le bleu de ciel bleu" was released, and replaced Gondolier as number one in France. This release was followed by her receipt of the RMC award, which she went on to win for six consecutive years.

In June, she embarked upon the "TDF avec Dalida 58" tour (Tour de France avec Dalida). During the summer, she performed in Algiers, supporting the morale of French soldiers fighting the Algerian War. In July, she received Coq d'Or award for song "Les Gitans". Around this time, she had five songs simultaneously in the Top 10, a record that she still holds.

In September Dalida played supporting roles in two B movies: "Rapt au deuxième bureau" and "Brigade des mœurs". On October 9, she again performed at Bobino, this time for three weeks as the headline performer, where she promoted her last release Come prima, which became the Christmas number one in France and Belgium. Its B side "Si je pouvais revivre un jour ma vie" reached number one in Canada. By the end of the year, she had received three more golden discs, and again compiled previously released EPs on two new albums; "Gondolier" and "Les Gitans". Girth Summit (talk) 08:21, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Italian Egyptian born, French singer

DalidaEditor, your recent revert of Cheep's edit restores a version which contains the awkward clause, was an Italian Egyptian born, French singer.... First, this is too many country adjectives piled up together; and second, it is unclear what it means. The previous version, an Egyptian-born French vocalist... was clearer, although it didn't include the Italian part. You could adjust that, by saying: a French vocalist born in Egypt to Italian parents..., or something similar. But leaving it as it is, is not an option. If you like, respond below in French how you would like to phrase it, and I'll translate it properly for you. Mathglot (talk) 09:46, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

I agree that the present wording is awkward and I think that you, Mathglot, have come up with a wording which flows naturally in English. So I suggest "...was a French vocalist and actress, born in Egypt to Italian parents." LynwoodF (talk) 11:05, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Mathglot and LynwoodF you both agreed about "...was a French vocalist and actress, born in Egypt to Italian parents." and I agree too, but I reverted it to my edit because right now I and some editor focuse on "career" part of article, and many fans have violated Dalida as they simply "jump in" to article, as unregistered and edit her affliation as singer by their will. So I decided to leave the "introduction" partly unfinished for short period until we finish down below article, and I inserted was an Italian Egyptian born, French singer... following the principle of Claudia Cardinale article. Please check out her article and tell me why can't Dalida have same thing as her.Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 01:55, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

DalidaEditor: If by "the principle of Claudia Cardinale" you are referring to "Claudia Cardinale is an Italian Tunisian film actress", and if by "why can't Dalida have same thing as her" you mean to question why you couldn't you have, "Dalida was an Italian Egyptian vocalist", the answer is, you could. But that is not what you have, now. Currently, it reads: was an Italian Egyptian-born French vocalist... and as already pointed out, there are two many nationality adjectives in too close proximity to make sense of this. Furthermore, the fragment "Italian Egyptian-born" is meaningless, since you can only be born in one place.

You should not have reverted it to your version, as it makes no sense like this. If you agree, as you say you do, that "...was a French vocalist and actress, born in Egypt to Italian parents" is a better locution, please change it to that. Or if you prefer, I can do it if you're busy on the other section. Adding LynwoodF. Mathglot (talk) 05:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Mathglot is right, the proposal above is both more informative, and it reads much more easily. Making this change now doesn't affect ongoing work on the career section, so I've gone ahead and done it. GirthSummit _(blether) 09:37, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

As an aside, DalidaEditor you shouldn't be saying that you decided to leave the introduction 'unfinished', or suggesting that other editors are jumping to change the article, because we are working on the Career section. Anyone can edit the article, and we don't all have to be working on the same part at the same time. If an edit is unsourced, or badly worded, or is plainly wrong, then by all means revert - but don't do it because you are working on a different section at the moment and intend to come back to the introduction later. That kind of approach is probably why people have accused you of attempting to to own this article in the past. GirthSummit _(blether) 09:48, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, Girth Summit. I agree with what you say above. For the record, everyone, I am not too keen on the wording of Claudia Cardinale either. Surely she is an Italian film actress born and raised in Tunisia. LynwoodF (talk) 13:28, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

It's not quite as bad, since it provides a link to what is meant by Italian Tunisian, and it's not further complicated by saying that she's also French. (I note that we could have referred people to the article on Italian Egyptians for Dalida, but I think what we've got now is probably better). GirthSummit _(blether) 14:10, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

60s section (1)

Hello Girth Summit, I have finally made a new text. Please fix any mistakes, make aestheticall changes or anything needed.

1960-1966 International breakthrought

International success of Les enfants du Piree

First hit of 1960 was song "T'aimer follement" released on EP that topped charts of France and Belgium in February. Then she embarked upon a "Elle, lui et l'autre" world tour. The next EP "Romantica" was second hit of the year as it reached peak positions in France and Belgium in April.

In June, "Les enfants du Piree" was released released and quickly became her first big international succes and a million seller. Recorded in five different languages, song became the summer success and chart topper across Europe, primary in France. In Italy she was awarded with "Oscar di popolarità" and a "Lupo d'oro" for the best record sales of the year.

Transition to yé-yé

Back in France, as the new musical wawe yé-yé appeared while she was still a Music hall singer, recording the song "Itsi bitsi petit bikini" in September secured her popularity. Today one of her signature songs, it became late-summer international hit as it peaked chart positions in West Europe and Canada. It eas also her second record to sell more than a million. That was followed with Milord, that became hit in Germany and Italy, and produced her first Italian album of the same name.

Then she completed her world tour that lasted whole year, spanning across whole Europe, Canada and several Arab states. For Christmas, she recorded EP "Joyeux Noël Dalida" wich was promoted next week in the new year's eve "Dalida show". It was broadcasted on French TV for welcoming 1961 with the audience of nearly six million viewers.

Year of covers and first Olympia concert residency

In 1961 most of all songs released by Dalida were covers from forgein singers. In January, she released "Garde moi la derniere danse" that charted second, just after "Itsi Bitsi Petit Bikini" and remained her biggest French hit of the year. Then she went on "Dalida internationale" world tour that started in Teheran in front of royal family.

Tour was followed with release of her "Canta in italiano" EP, and several other songs that entered top 10 like "24 000 baisers", "Nuits d'espagne" and "Tu ne sais pas". In April she made "Pepe" number one hit in Germany. In late spring she went to Italy for filming movie "Parlez moi d'amour". Returning to France, she released two more albums; "Dalida Internationale", that gathered all her songs she was performing on tour, and "Loin the moi". Loin de moi recieved her first scoptione that quickly gained success. Both albums were promoted in early December during her first concert residency at Olympia, wich was a sold out success with standing ovations. Then she recieved congratulating from Edith Piaf who told her: "After me, it will be you." In Belgum. On the very end of December, she completed her world tour in Ancienne Belgique

High success in Canada and Asian debut

In January she toured Canada where Tu peux le prendre peaked number one. On February 5, 1962, in a French TV program Toute la chanson, she caused a sensation by interpreting La leçon de twist, accompanied on the piano by Johnny Hallyday. It was followed by release of her second yé-yé hit Achète-moi un juke-box. From April to July she toured across Italy and Vietnam and recorded Le petit Gonzales wich topped international charts and eventually remained her most successfull yé-yé recording.

Queen of scoptiones

In September 1962, in front of large audience on the first floor of the Eiffel Tower, Dalida interpreted her new song Le jour le plus long wich immediately recieved music video where she was dressed as a soldier and sang in a war atmosphere. It was distributed by Scopitones in cafes, and gained massive success as the song peaked number one. She also released album Le petit Gonzales, named after her biggest success of year. In January 1963, following the release of moderate successfully Tu croiras, she recieved Cortina d'Ampezzo award that symbolized biggest disc sales in Italy of her 45rpms in past period.

Filming career parallel to singing

Then she decided to dedicate herself more to filming so she went for three months to Hong-Kong for filming L'Inconnue de Hong-Kong. During filming she recorded Le jour du retour, that recieved success in Canada, peking on its charts in July. The movie was released in August, just before beginning of her World tour 63.

The tour was a triumph with sold out concerts in Germany, Canada, Hong Kong, Fort-de-France, Brazil and the Eastern countries. During a concert in Warsaw, she discovered that an collection of shoes "Dalida shoes" was named after her. In Saigon, the enthusiasm was such that the police must intervene to clear the surroundings of the performing venue Rex. In Algeria, she became the first French artist to appear since the proclamation of independence.

Soon the popularity meter for scoptiones placed her well ahead of other singers and she was also awarded with World oscar of juke-box for being most listened artist on juke-boxes in Europe.

Bestseller Eux and TDF 64

Her end of year bestseller became song Eux, after wich album Eux was named. Song was recorded in four languages and sold more than one million examples of accumulated international sales in fourth tertile of the year, for wich she was awarded with her first Oscar mondial du disque de l'année.

In January of 1964, she immediately started a new world tour from Fort-de-France where, welcomed by a huge crowd at the airport, journalists wrote that she received a welcome as strong as of General de Gaulle, a few months previously. In support of tour, she also released an EP Ce coin de terre, wich proved successful as all four songs charted internationaly in Top 10.

The tour's French leg started on 11 April where she traveled 30 thousand kilometers by using only car, during its five months run. The TDF 64 Tour was incorporated where she performed on a giant podium, in each stage city of the Tour de France 1964. An iconic moment was her entry on the scene on August 14, at Draguignan, when for the first time she become blonde. In June she released chart topper Chaque instant de chaque jour. Tour ended in September as she returned to Olympia for her third concert residency there, wich again proved to be an sold out success.

Platinum disc and favourite singer of decade

Last release of the year was Amore scusami in November, wich she promoted through TV appearances and with the scoptione video for B side song Je n'ai jamais pu t'oublier. The EP was her biggest success of the year peaking number one in French charts and earning her a golden disc. At the same time she became first perosn to be awarded with the platinum disc, in this case for accumulated sales of over 10 million records since her debut in 1956.

In February 1965, she embarked upon world tour, in Canada and Europe, and released Top 10 charting EP Viva la pappa. The B side song La sainte totoche was applauded by critics as it touched the theme of "the hypocritical behavior of men towards women". In poll conducted by IFOP on April 24, 1965 Dalida was proclaimed the favorite French singer of decade, largely distancing Piaf and a few others. The intellectuals also praised her recent successful concerts at Bobino and Tête de l'Art in Paris.

Debut in Latin America with Zorba

Following it's release in June, La danse de Zorba became summer hit and dance of the holidays, as in the discotheques people were unleashed on its rhythm. On TV, Dalida interpreted it barefoot, creating an inspired choreography. Song charted number one in France, in Brazil and entered Top in worldwide charts. In August, she added Maroco and Algeria as a third leg of her tour and released her first single record Wenn die Soldaten.

In late September she released EP Il silenzio, and album of a same name. The song Il silenzo was recorded in several languages and achieved big sales success and topped charts in Europe, Canada and Latin America, becoming her secong big entry there. Scandale dans la famille also recieved high success both in Canada and France.

Extensive intercontinental touring

Whole year 1966 was marked by an extensive one year long world tour that starded on February 13, in Paris, and ended on December 31, in Toulouse. She toured From Canada, Latin America to Arab states and across Europe. In January El cordobes was her first EP of the year, and it achieved big success in Latin America and entered top of European charts.

Also, as of January, Dalida employed her family and worked decisively with her cousin Rosy as her secretary, and brother Bruno as her artistic director. In May she met El Cordobes in Toulouse during a Corrida, so he dedicated her a taurus as she dedicated him the song earlyer. The following month Parlez moi de lui was released, which in the future became significant to her, as the songs was discussing her private life.

Success of Bang Bang in Italy and collaboration with Tenco

During summer, on a Italian TV in Rome she interpreted Bang bang, her number one success of the moment in Italy and Argentina. In September her italian managers suggested her to participate with Luigi Tenco, a new avant-garde cantautor, at the next Festival de San Remo. Although she had previously refused joining, she accepted because she saw the perfect opportunity to reach a new audience, especially young people. Since the meeting, Dalida and Tenco developed an secret love.

In October, she releasedher last EP of the year Petit Homme, wich gained significant success in Europe, Canada and Argentina.

Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 01:49, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

I think this tone is better DalidaEditor. There are still a few issues with some of the word choices - words such as 'triumph' are considered WP:PEACOCK terms for example - but it's definitely moving in the right direction. It does need some copy editing for grammar, which I'll be happy to do, but can I ask you first about sources - there aren't any references in this. I'm assuming that you have references for the assertions, that you will include in the copy-edited text? I also have a suggestion - rather than fill up the talk page with large samples of text like this, you could perhaps use your sandbox and then provide a link on the talk page. Once you confirm about the references, I'll go through the text and make a few tweaks. GirthSummit _(blether) 11:55, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello GirthSummit, I made quite big changes so look at User:DalidaEditor/sandbox.

Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 02:50, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

OK - I've copied your text into my sandbox and am going through the copy editing. When I'm done, I'll stick it back on your sandbox underneath your original. One quick question at the moment - the first section mentions 'the new musical wawe yé-yé' - what is that? Is it a musical (meaning a piece of musical theatre, like Cats or Les Miserables), or are you referring to a new musical style? GirthSummit _(blether) 11:53, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

GirthSummith An musical style that has its wiki page. Only thing I forgot was to link some things in text with their wiki pages.Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 16:18, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

OK thanks - I thought that would probably be the case from the context, but wanted to check.GirthSummit _(blether) 16:33, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

DalidaEditor I've finished editing that text - sorry it took a few days to find time to complete it, there was quite a lot of material. It's all in my sandbox now - feel free to copy and paste it from there. Note that one thing I haven't done is go through and format the titles of songs, films etc. I think that they should be capitalised as the titles of artworks, and possible put into italics as well to make them stand out from the rest of the text - if you think that's appropriate, please go through and make these changes. Let me know if you have any questions about what I've done. GirthSummit _(blether) 12:37, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

GirthSummith no worry and big thanks for edits and help. Do you like the way that we edit the page and can I ask you for same help with text for next period; 1967-1974?Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 01:29, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, happy to help with further edits. Again, if you write your text in your sandbox then ping me, I'll copy it into mine and edit it there. GirthSummit _(blether) 12:35, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

1967-1973

Hello GirthSummith. After an abstence, I have finally made a new text that can be found here. It still has to be changed and fixed alot because it seems like a bunch of scattered informations. You can be free to change complete style so that it has somekind of tone. There are no sources but I will add them by time, for save time you dont need to wait for me. Cordially Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 01:24, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi again - no problem, I'll take a look over it when I get a change, and will let you know when I'm done. Cheers! GirthSummit _(blether) 07:23, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Spouses?

The section about short dat contains:

Spouse(s) Lucien Morisse (m. 1961; div. 1962)

Partner(s) Lucien Morisse (1956-1961) (former spouse) Jean Sobieski (1961-1963)

I Just wonder "former spouse" when she was married AFTER? Also it seems that there vas some kind of bigamy?

Just asking. Seniorsag (talk) 15:02, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

That edit was made by some random user in course of several vandalism edits. It is nonsense, I restored immediately my previous edit that you can see in current version of the article.Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 05:26, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Actor/actress

The term "actor" is used interchangably with "actress" for female performers; it is also less old-fashioned and much more frequent. (See the discussion at Talk:Actress (disambiguation) for much more background, and several different sources.) I would not go around the encyclopedia changing all instances of "actress" to "actor" since "actress" (unlike many other female-marked terms for professions) is not entirely obsolete or offensive, but when it has been changed to "actor" which is the unmarked term, it seems almost like an attempt to make some kind of (inexplicable) point to change it back. Why do that? The only appropriate reason I could see would be if she herself had a strong preference, but as she was not a native English-speaker that seems less likely. But please provide sources to show I'm wrong! --bonadea contributions talk 13:04, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Dalida is women. Female version for actor is actress. That is not old fashioned, that is reality. Keep your attempt to inflict your modern opinions private, not on wikipedia. We don't need any sources to provide. Btw you are the one who changed actress to actor without any discussion in the first place. "Actress" in article stayed for over a decade, changing that should be discussed before. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 18:31, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

I have no ida why this appears to arouse such strong feelings, but I ask you please not to comment on other editors in that manner. Another editor harmonised the terminology in this article to current English usage and I simply restored that.

Language changes, and it is a simple fact of contemporary English that "actress" is becoming old-fashioned and is a marked term - that is certainly not a personal opinion, which as you know has no place in Wikipedia. The term "actor" is used interchangeably with "actress" for female performers and is de facto more common, and more neutral. Of couse different languages work differently, and some other languages (such as French) have gender marked nouns used in different ways, but we can't apply knowledge of how other languages use gendered terms to describe English. There are multiple reliable sources supporting the English usage, so again it is nothing to do with personal (or "modern") opinion. Of course we need sources - what a baffling statement to make! If there is disagreement about what is the case, we use sources to discover what is in fact verifiable. Some individuals have a personal preference for "actress", which is the only appropriate reason to consciously use that term about them, and if you do have sources supporting a claim that Dalida had such a personal preference, please provide them here. And please take the time to read the discussion linked above. It feels like a waste of everybody's time to rehash it again. Thank you! --bonadea contributions talk 10:59, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

@Bonadea: "Another editor harmonised the terminology in this article to current English usage and I simply restored that (...) actress is becoming old fashioned" -> not at all. Maybe actress is becoming old fashioned word in your universe, but here on Earth not. It has more politicall connections due to recent gender ideology. The third view on my own talk page decided that actress stays as all female actresses on wiki are called actress. We are not going to slowly change each article so no one realises it, just to later come up and say "oh but genderless word is well accepted on wikipedia". Plus, I have repeated several times that common wiki rule is "if it is not broken, don't fix it". Actress worked okay for 15 years on Dalida article. You just came and changed it, then referrimg to me how I should stop reverting. Do you understand that these kind of chamges on article can be done only after the discussion ends. During the discussion, the article should stay in original shape and wait to conclusion.Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 05:16, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

@Dalida Editor: From my point of view, which I acknowledge is coloured by the fact that I work professionally with teaching and researching the English language (and so I am probably more intimately aware of how the language changes), this change is uncontroversial because it is such an obviously neutral change from one accepted but old-fashioned and not quite neutral form, to another accepted and more neutral form. In retrospect I should have recalled how high tempers flew at Talk:Actress (disambiguation), though the only person there who refused to accept the change was an offensive troll, which you are not. Let's discuss this. That being said, it is difficult to carry out a discussion when my factual arguments based on reliable secondary sources are met with emotional outbursts. Please comment on edits, not on editors. And please provide the sources that support your assertion Maybe actress is becoming old fashioned word in your universe, but here on Earth not. It has more politicall connections due to recent gender ideology as I can't quite understand what it means - apart from the offensive phrasing, it's incorrect (it is becoming old fashioned, that has nothing to do with me or my opinions - as I already said - it is shown by independent research, which is the only way to find out how language changes and works), and how can a word have political connections? If you mean that it is not a true change but only something that a few political activists use, well, that's been disproven for us by the usage-based investigations presented in the previous discussion.

The third opinion on your talk page did not [decide] that actress stays as all female actresses on wiki are called actress. I'll quote what was said here: "I looked at random three articles: Sharon Stone, Audrey Tautou, Ingrid Bergman and found there: American actress, French actress, Swedish actress. It seems to me that the replacement of the “actress” by the “actor” is not a consensus at the moment. Perhaps [editor name] need a broader discussion of this issue, rather than edits in a single article." In other words, there is no consensus across Wikipedia, but there was no decision that "actress stays" nor any claim that "all female actresses on wiki are called actress". There was a call for further discussion. Are you prepared to discuss this dispassionately, and are you prepared to read up on previous discussions and the sources presented in support of how English changes? Some of the things you say look as if you have made up your mind once and for all and that you won't accept changes to the article that you don't personally agree with, but I hope that is not the case. Again, I understand that in French, the concept of gendered nouns is a very very different thing from what it is in English. In my native language, the female-gendered word for "actress" is considerably less marked, and it is a fairly neutral term. But I cannot use my native language to gauge the status of English. Nor can I go on intuition or how my friends speak. Wikipedia has to go on what research shows us, in the form of reliable published sources. --bonadea contributions talk 06:03, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

There are a few things going on here:

1. the real-world facts of usage
2. whether one version or the other has consensus or not,
3. Wikipedia style guidelines about this issue
4. prior discussion about the issue (of which there is plenty)
5. the value of consistency with other articles, and a related issue:
6. whether different terms should be used for different women or not, and finally:
7. the manner (civility) of the discussion

Facts of usage: To the first point: language does undergo change, and in my opinion, User:Revirvlkodlaku is correct where they wrote on your talk page (here) that there is some movement towards actor for women in film and plays; and I would have thought it was majority opinion. But, it turns out that it is not: this ngrams plot comparing two expressions show she is an actress holding fairly steady from 1960 on, while she is an actor started from zero in 1960, and has been making steady, slow gains, but remains minority usage in English books. Another factor here is WP:NOTLEAD, that is, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and it doesn't get out in front of trends or even ride them; by it's nature, Wikipedia is conservative about language, and follows changes of language with a certain time lag, while printed books and articles catch up with spoken language that may have changed on the bleeding edge years earlier. On the flip side of this DalidaEditor, as a French speaker, you are probably aware of the changes going on in French right now, for example, the struggles of the Académie française to deal with very similar questions, such as what happens if a woman is elected President of France? Is it, "Mme le Président", or, "Mme la Présidente"? This has not been decided. English has no "Academy", but professional writers still have to discuss how to resolve such questions in English, and Wikipedia has a [[MOS:|Style manual]] which addresses some of these points.

Consensus: There is such a thing as WP:EDITCONSENSUS, and if an article has been a certain way for some time, even if there is some support that language has changed in a certain area in the interim, if an editor makes a BOLD change and is reverted, they should follow WP:BRD and take it to the Talk page. So, following a first revert, it should be discussed, which is what we are doing. So that's good. So, User:bonadea, when an editor makes a bold change, it is not up to editors at the article to show why your change is wrong, they can simply challenge the bold change by reverting it; the WP:BURDEN is on the editor who wishes to make a change to an article to persuade other editors of their view. That hasn't happend here yet, and while the matter is under discussion, it should remain what it originally was.

Style: I thought there was something in the [[MOS:|Manual of Style]] about the actor/actress question, but I can't find it right now. If I do, I'll link it. Wikipedia's categorization system has an impicit recognition that women can be called actors: contrast these two names: Category:21st-century American actresses vs. Category:21st-century American male actors.

Prior discussion: One reason it may not be in MOS (if it isn't) is that consensus hasn't formed yet. Discussions about this issue have occurred before on the Talk page of the [[MOS:|Manual of Style]], which can now be found in the Talk archives there, for example, 118: Actor vs Actress terminology, 107: Gender neutrality: actress vs actor, 144: Actor/actress, and 101: "actor" vs. "actress". You can see how they turned out, and what arguments you find persuasive. (And these discussions link to yet others.)

Consistency with other articles: I am not aware of any MOS requirement for consistency of word usage across different articles about a similar topic (actors). If a great number of articles about female actors appear to use the word actress, that may be indicative of a consensus to use it or it may simply be herd behavior. What's clear from MOS is that there is no requirement to use actress, but neither is there a requirement to use actor. So MOS offers no guide, and neither is there a consistency principle here imho. (Which also means I find the kindly offered 3O opinion above unpersuasive, or not that helpful.)

different terms for different women: To some extent, there may be a generational thing going on. Some of the younger women working in Hollywood might well claim actor as their profession, but I'm pretty sure Doris Day or Dame Maggie Smith would not. Dalida was born in 1933 and belongs to a generation of women who overwhelmingly used the term actress. In the end though evidence from the majority of reliable sources would trump any preference of her own if they differed; but in this case it doesn't seem like they do.

Civility: This isn't really relevant to an article Talk page, but I'll leave a user page message for you but basically Assume good faith applies here.

Summary: The evidence is not available, in my opinion, to overturn long-standing WP:EDITCONSENSUS for the use of actress, neither in general, nor with Dalida in particular. For anyone who believes there is evidence that would support a new consensus about this, probably it should happen first at WT:MOS. Mathglot (talk) 07:13, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Well, if people don't take the time to read my arguments or explanations (I am very well aware of WP:BURDEN, thank you, and explained above why I made the changes - surely you are aware of the fact that DalidaEditor's latest revert was not challenged by me? What am I expected to do, in addition to a) explaining why I reverted and b) not persisting?) nor previous discussions based on actual linguistic research on usage (which in my personal universe trumps impressionistic investigations on the slightly problematic GBooks corpus - did you control for varieties of English in your research, for instance?) I am not prepared to continue it. It is not a case of leading change, it is a case of trailing it, but apparently I am useless at explaining that. :-( --bonadea contributions talk 07:35, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Just one thing before further discussion; I don't know what made you think I am French, whereas the topics I edit or my struggle with "spirit" of writing in english, but I am Croatian and I know very well the gender situation in several widespread languages today, so no need of trying to find reasons why do I want to keep actress. I am solely for keeping the "current state" of ANY article before the ending of ANY discussion. I excuse myself for that way of respones but I've had enough experience with editors who make edits without discussion, and when I revert it seeking for previous discussion, I got reported or warned. @Mathgold: thanks for this professional response, I am very sorry that I couldn't do the same when I initially replied this discussion. @Bonadea: yes I understand everything you said but I made problem in communication with my way of my responses, I just led myself according to example of articles like Marilyn Monroe, Catherine Hepburn, Cher, Meryl Streep, Elizabeth Taylor; all actresses. Why would Dalida be exclusion? Instead obviously someone more professional had to join the discussion. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 08:22, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

@Bonadea: Dalida talk page is not the place to generally discuss the topic regarding linguistics of some word's usage.Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me}' 08:23, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Bonadea: Re your comments:

• Surely you are aware.. – Yes, thank you.
• What am I expected to do... – Nothing; you did the right thing. You made your case as best as you could. If your question is non-rhetorical and you really want a response, then you could advertise the discussion on relevant WikiProjects and Talk pages of related articles, to see if you can persuade other editors of your PoV, and overturn the consensus. I'm not optimistic that that would be a good use of your time, but that would be the next step, imho, if you wanted to pursue this.
• previous discussions based on actual linguistic research... – is there some Wikipedia policy that says we defer to linguistic research, over, say, what reliable sources say? And if by "previous discussions" you are referring sepcifically to the arguments at Talk:Actress (disambiguation), then I'm sure you are aware that they are subject to local consensus and therefore nothing decided there has any relevance here.
• which in my personal universe trumps... – Wikipedia is a different universe, I guess.
• on the slightly problematic GBooks corpus... – A point upon which we agree.
• did you control for varieties... – Yes, but it didn't seem worth posting two more links which demonstrated the same result. One could well have criticized the search expression I used as only one possibility among many, and that would be a valid criticism. I'm open to other searches that point to a different conclusion, but I couldn't find one.
• leading change vs. trailing it... – I don't see that; looks to me like you're on the bleeding edge of change. Wikipedia may catch up in five or ten years, when the reliable sources do. Or it may never catch up.
• apparently I am useless at explaining... – I think you're an effective proponent of your PoV, I just don't think that the data is there to support the change you favor in the context of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines; the main issue here being WP:DUEWEIGHT, which requires us to make assertions in proportion to what the reliable sources say. From what I can see, the preponderance of evidence doesn't support your theory.

One final thought, and this is *not* evidence for my PoV, because Wikipedia itself is not a reliable source, however if you go through the category lists of actors starting at the root, Category:Actors, and following any of many possible paths down the tree, such as, say, Category:Actors → Category:British actors → Category:British actresses → Category:British actresses by century → Category:20th-century British actresses and mouse over the names on the list, it will pop up a snippet and you can see if it names them as an actor or an actress. Starting with the A's, the first "actress" is #8, Hedli Anderson; the next "actress" is #79, Vivienne Chatterton. One can hardly extrapolate from this to get accurate figures, but if that's anything close to typical, it means that among Wikpedia articles tagged in that category, 98% are marked "actress". As I said at the outset, WINARS, so this has no direct bearing on consensus, but it does indicate the inertia of present mass that you are up against.

The right venue for this in my opinion, if your are serious about wanting to change this is not at individual articles like Dalida or at the Disambig page, which are each subject to their own local consensus, but at WT:MOS, where, if your argument prevails, it will be applicable Project-wide. Before you do that, though, check out those links I left above to the MOS Archives, where this has been tried before and failed every time. I really think you are tilting at windmills, here, but you never know; it wouldn't be the first time something has failed an attempt at being codified in policy numerous times, before finally making it on the last attempt. Maybe you can drive it through this time, where others have not succeeded. Good luck! Mathglot (talk) 08:44, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

@DalidaEditor: Yes, I remember now, you told me once before your nationality. Sorry about the confusion. Mathglot (talk) 08:47, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your reasoned response. I completely agree with your assessment that this is a windmill. It's often a very bad idea to be involved in topics you actually have expert knowledge about on Wikipedia, and I'm definitely not going to pursue this any further since (as I have pointed out repeatedly) it is a case of variation between two acceptable uses. I'm leaving this discussion here. --bonadea contributions talk 08:50, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Dalida Miss Egypt 1954.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:21, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Dalida Miss Egypt 1954.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:07, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

April 3 rollback

DalidaEditor, I concur with your rollback, but when it involves reverting the work of several editors, as was the case here, it's customary, or at least, advisable, to add a section here on the Talk page to explain your reasoning. Otherwise, it can look a bit too much like ownership. In one case, you removed a reference added by KawatharUAE, but this is defensible, since it was added to the lead summarizing article content that was already sourced in the body. Going forward, if you roll back again, please raise a section here, and explain your action. If there are any objections, you'll need to respond and find consensus to determine how to proceed. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 01:13, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

@Mathglot: Hi, I understand and agree but I think this is a completely different case. If you look at past two months of Dalida page edits you would notice how most edits were whether she is Egyptian, French or Italian; so just spinning around because of random users, some even unregistered, are again trying to inflict personal opinions. The topic was disscussed and solved, the most basic fact about Dalida that was never doubtful. And some other edits were; transfer of American style words to British which was done partially by user leaving the article in complete mess, and capitalizing some words from no reason... That is why I didn't add any section because I tought those edits weren't much of important nature, thus completely unnecessary. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me} 02:08, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

@DalidaEditor:, okay, well, it might be less obvious to someone just looking at the rev history and wondering what's going on, who isn't as familiar with the article, and its history, as you are. The safe thing, and the user-friendly thing to do, is to add some comments here. Now that's done, so if you don't get any pushback here, then it's fine. Happy editing! Mathglot (talk) 02:12, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

@Mathglot: Yes you are right, thanks for nice approach. Keep safe. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me} 00:16, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Blind revert and edit war done by cheep.

Hello,

User:cheep keeps reverting my edits without discussing them and removing reliable sources. Dalida was an Egyptian-born.

What's the point of removing such information? What could be his problem with her being Egyptian-born? --KawatharUAE (talk) 14:46, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

His problem is the same as mine. You are stating the same thing twice. The wording which was there before your edit was agreed some time ago. Please read the text very carefully and do not change it again. LynwoodF (talk) 15:15, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I am not stating the same thing twice. Stating that she was an Egyptian-born French is totally different from stating that she was just a french citizen; as the former implies she was neutralized, while the latter implies she was French by birth and upbringing. That piece of information should be made clear at the introduction of the article.

--KawatharUAE (talk) 15:57, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

She was not actually Egyptian-born (see this article); she was Italian-born in Egypt and this is clearly stated. Please read what it says in the sentence. There is a parallel with Audrey Hepburn, who was British-born in Belgium to a Dutch mother, but was not entitled by virtue of her place of birth to Belgian nationality, nor by virtue of her mother's origins to Dutch nationality. LynwoodF (talk) 18:46, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I doubt that you know the proper definition of Egyptian-born! An Egyptian-born is simply someone who was born in Egypt. Dalida was born in Egypt to Italian immigrants who settled in Cairo, Egypt prior to 1912, which automatically makes them Egyptian citizens as well. Dalida was a neutralized french, not just "French"; there is a difference. --Tania.raef (talk) 06:41, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Your point is probably valid, KawatharUAE.

Reading the article on Egyptian nationality, I cannot see that her parents would automatically have been entitled to Egyptian nationality, even if they settled in Egypt at the time you mention. They already had Italian nationality. The wording which appeared in this article before the recent changes was agreed a few years ago, after a discussion on the talk page, and it was felt to be the simplest way to summarize the complex situation in the lede. More detail is given in the main body of the article. It was decided to describe her as a French singer because her singing career began after she moved to France and she was naturalized French by marrying a French citizen. If you have better information than is available to the rest of us, please give us references. LynwoodF (talk) 08:37, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

First of all, she was definitely an Egyptian citizen, or else she would not have been able to join the national beauty contest of Miss Egypt in the first place, a contest which has always been exclusive to Egyptian nationals. Secondly, I don't really care whether she had the Egyptian nationality or not. She was an Egyptian-born and raised in Egypt. Last but not least, are you serious?! Just because someone became famous in a country which they happen to hold its citizenship later in life, would it mean we can ignore stating their true, original nationality--the nationality of their entire family--which they inherited by Jus sanguinis. If you can't see the fallacy in your argument, then please leave the matter to another admin to take care of. Wikipedia should not be the right place in which you can be racist and get away with it. --Tania.raef (talk) 17:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I object to being described as a racist. Please withdraw the accusation. If you wish to change the text of the article, please find credible references to support the statements you make. LynwoodF (talk) 18:05, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

The source the I have provided along with thousands of other sources available online do support she was Egyptian-born of Italian descent, don't they? I believe explicitly stating that wouldn't take away any of your "French pride". --Tania.raef (talk) 19:51, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I do not agree that the sources you give bear out your contention and I have not seen any other source which does. It is not clear to me whether you understand that being born in Egypt is not the same thing as being born Egyptian. My understanding of Egyptian nationality law suggests that she would not automatically have acquired the right to Egyptian nationality, but would have been deemed to be Italian at birth. Moreover, I have never seen any source which states unequivocally that she ever acquired Egyptian nationality. This could well be because there are none.

I am not French; I am a neutral observer attempting to record verifiable facts. LynwoodF (talk) 21:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Argh! For the millionth time, an Egyptian-born is someone who was born in Egypt regardless of their nationality. Is it so hard to understand? In other words, you do not have to be an Egyptian citizen to be an Egyptian-born. Speaking of whether she had the Egyptian nationality or not, I couldn't care less. However, I personally believe she had the Egyptian citizenship, or she wouldn't have been able to compete in Miss Egypt, a competition whose primary condition is to be Egyptian! Having said that, I'm not here to prove she was an Egyptian citizen. I'm here to state a well-known fact, which is she was an Egyptian-born italian...that can be proved with tens of thousands of sources. --Tania.raef (talk) 01:14, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

All we know with any degree of certainty is that she was born in Egypt to Italian parents and that is clearly stated in the lede. LynwoodF (talk) 07:41, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

User:Tania.raef, I believe you are confusing “Egypt-born”, which is about geography, with “Egyptian-born” which is about citizenship. But since “Egyptian-born” is rare enough that it might cause confusion with its cousin “Egypt-born”, it’s better to say “born an Egyptian citizen” if that’s what you mean, or “born in Egypt” if that’s what you mean. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 10:20, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Showing the confusion: this book uses the expression one way; while this one uses the other expression that way, so it's confusing. All the more reason to avoid the hyphenated expressions, and just spell out what is meant. Mathglot (talk) 18:54, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Sales

• "In a career spanning more than 30 years, Dalida sold 85 million records" — Suicide in the Entertainment Industry by David K. Frasier (2015); pag. 74
• "She sold over 85 million records world-wide over the years" — Macmillan Dictionary of Women's Biography by Jennifer Uglow (1993); pag. 145
• "she sang primarily in French or Italian, selling in excess of 85 million records worldwide" — Rock Obituaries: Knocking On Heaven's Door by Nick Talevski (2010); pag 114
• "she recorded more than 500 songs in eight languages and sold more than 100 million records" — Frommer's Memorable Walks in Paris by Jeanne Oliver (1998); pag. 121
• "Dalida became a major star in France, selling 120 million records during a thirty-year career that began in 1956" — HA!: A Self-Murder Mystery by Gordon Sheppard (2003)
• "Dalida , qui avait vendu 120 millions de disques de son vivant" — by Capital (FR); pag. 118, issues: 154-159
• 140 million albums by BroadwayWorld (2019)

--Apoxyomenus (talk) 19:07, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Dalida 1984.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:38, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

She’s Egyptian by birth and heritage, Italian by blood,

Not “French”! This is the funniest thing I’ve read. —MatthewS. (talk) 09:27, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Asking for admin involvement

First of all, I want to point out that this page looks like a fanzine page and it is not very balanced. I edited the nationality of Dalida, using the terms written in the Wikipedia French and Italian pages, The Spanish version uses the term 'Italian-French' citizenship. The user Cheep has reverted my edit. On the Wikipedia pages in French and Italian, Dalida is described as Italian, naturalised French. Dalida's first nationality was Italian. She was born in Egypt by Italian parents and she acquired Italian nationality at birth (jus sanguinis citizenship). Her mother tongue was Italian, she attended Italian school in Egypt and grew up in an Italian environment. She moved to France and acquired her French citizenship in 1961 after marrying Lucien Morisse, at age 28. Her first nationality was Italian and she became also French citizen. Deleting the fact she was first an Italian citizen, it is a disrespect to facts. She was Italian too, not just her parents. Now, the user LynwoodF was worried just to revert the correct information, stating that "This matter has been discussed at length before". I checked the previous discussion on this talk page and I don't see any balanced discussion at length, about this topic, but just a heavy involvement of a Dalida fan. Why is this behaviour allowed on the wikipedia English page of Dalida, when the other languages had dealt with the topic in a better and balanced way? Why does this page look like a fanzine? I am asking for the involvement of administrators. Thank you.--Cutio.mer (talk) 10:21, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

@Cutio.mer: Hi, other wikipedias are irrelevant in this case. Dalida is a French singer. There was a lot of talk about this topic even though there was no basis for it, but that discussion at least yielded a very concise and accurate introduction to article: “French singer, born in Egypt to Italian parents”. Cordially Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me} 09:48, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@DalidaEditor:I asked for a feedback from an admin, not a Dalida's fan, tbh. Other wikipedia pages are not irrelevant, moreover Dalida was more known among French and Italian audience than English one. Dalida wasn't just born to Italian parents, but she was Italian herself, mother tongue Italian, and acquired later French citizenship at 28. Yes, she was singing mainly French, but she was singing also in other languages. Also you are really making a disservice to historical facts. Anyway, Dalida already explained clearly that in a song: ″C'est vrai, c'est vrai. C'est vrai que, je suis italienne. De naissance égyptienne″. Like it or not. Cutio.mer (talk) 11:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

A non-neutral article containing false information

I bring my support to make this article encyclopedic and respectful of the principles of Wikipedia. I propose to start updating the introduction of the article.

I rely only on factual evidence, and support my argument on a set of sources which, in any case, are irrefutable, at least can hardly be so. All this having only one goal, to manage to reform the article.

For starters, here is the false information in the introduction:

• Dalida, egyptian? At birth, she had Italian nationality because of her parents who were Italian. Being established in Egypt does not induce Egyptian nationality, Dalida has never had this nationality, nor Egyptian origins. On the other hand, she was naturalized French in April 1961. She is therefore in fact and from the legal point of view an Italian-French or, in other words, an Italian naturalized French. She explains it herself in this broadcast dated November 16, 1986. The French and Italian Wikipedia page of Dalida advances this too.
• Dalida, leading singer in Europe in the 60s? In reality, an artist among others. Lolita, a German artist, had sold a million records in Germany alone in 1960, the same for Rocco Granata with his song Marina. The same year, a success by Dalida sold more than 500,000 copies internationally. This can be repeated throughout the 1960s. Although Dalida sold several million records during those years, she was not "the leader" of the record market in Europe.
• Dalida, first platinum record? No. For example, the Philips record company had already awarded one to its artists in August 1963. That is more than a year before Dalida received it; having obtained it on September 17, 1964.
• Dalida, first diamond disc? No. It's the same story and there are many counterexamples. To name just one, Anna Lena Lofgren received one in March 1968. In addition, the one received by Dalida is not a record as such but an Oscar (as written on the award).

Apart from that, we must also opt for a broader formulation concerning sales and less precise. Dalida's sales figures are a roller coaster from one year to the next. For example, in 1981 we were talking about 65 million or even 67 million records sold. In 1987, 85 million or even 185 million as in Turkey. In the 90s, more than 100 million. In 2007, 170 million. In 2016, 140 million (120 million sold during his lifetime, 20 million since his death). In 2020, 125 million on the official website. A formula like "With several million records sold..." is in fact more generic and above all more neutral. And if necessary, it will be necessary to support this in the Discography section by indicating a sales range, with supporting sources.

I will not go back to the non-neutral chosen vocabulary which is already the subject of a banner on the article.

It is urgent to clarify Dalida's article which very closely resembles a blog article dedicated to the artist and not an encyclopedic article. I take the first step. --Elenora.C (talk) 01:28, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I haven't been as active on wikipedia in months as I used to be. I’m very busy so I don’t even get to be a part of this new discussion you’ve started, which I’d love to. So I can only answer two things that caught my eye out of a few of which you have listed.

You write "for starters"? And here, you are a...? I recommend that you become a little more familiar with this article, and not just attack it because of the state it was in on the day you read it. For cca 2 years, several editors are making efforts to keep this article as much as normal it can be, constantly fighting article vandalism on nationality, although agreed: French singer.

Second, are you trying to compare the success of Dalida in the 1960s and relativize it with one hit wonders? Popularity and success are not measured solely in sales, what are we talking about...

On French wikipedia, articles for musicians' discographies are flooded with sources that are nothing more than blogs, and the editors of those wiki articles are either these bloggers or are closely related to them. To me it seems that those like-minded people would like to spread their "facts" (their own calculations and quasi homemade hit parades) to the English wikipedia. There is a quite interesting new page "chartsinfos . com" I just discovered, that you tried to implement on Memorias (Camilo Sesto album) article. That webpage seems to be very focused on Dalida, Mireille Mathieu and Charles Aznavour. Definetely an official source, hm. I wonder is this an offspring of already well branched "artisteschartsventes.blogspot. com" group... not sure, but definetely like-minded people's creation. The ".com" suffix in a place of ".blog" doesn't make it any more official.

Cordially Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me} 15:12, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Dear @DalidaEditor:,

I'm glad you're taking part in the debate.

However, I would first like to settle a dispute with you even if this is not the place but it is necessary to lead a calm debate. Please stop hammering that I'm a French contributor when you proceed to completely arbitrary cancellations concerning my contributions. First, I’m Spanish. And even if I had been French, I don't see how this is an argument to highlight. Are the contributions of a Spanish or French user bad precisely because they come from these people? I am a full contributor. End of this aside.

I already brought many sources in my last intervention on this discussion page. And yes, I made changes dubbed by users who thanked me.

I don't know what blog you are talking about. Indeed, I use many sources as you can see on my Spanish wikipedia user page. Chartsinfos is one of them and it's not a blog. It's a database only. Take a closer look and you'll find the legal notices, not to mention the fact that they do have a domain name as well. So your assessment is completely unfounded. The sources for this site are actual sales and official rankings. Archives are available for consultation. The site has undergone a major update, other artists were there before. The proof is you mention Camilo Sesto. But they seem to be coming back gradually. It had been indicated. I also use the Billboard which was basically a magazine for professionals in the recording industry. In short, I will not cite all my sources.

Concerning the Camilo Sesto articles, the sources were well accepted, and my contributions earned me the "fregona coronada", precisely for having made the main article more neutral and sourced. But unfortunately, there are always vandals who are always very active and who themselves call you a vandal when you modify their contributions. A very classic conflict.

Dalida's nationality

Italy, like France, recognizes dual nationality. This does not depend on our goodwill, but falls under international law. I’m a jurist, and I can tell you that you are in a misunderstanding of international law, without taking offense. Dalida, being born of Italian parents and having obtained French nationality, is indeed an Italian-French. This is even said by her. I refer you to previous sources.

Here are other sources :

Concerning these alleged Egyptian origins : Book : DALIDA une vie…, page 6 (ISBN :978-2205-06107-9) : « For the Egyptian state, she is of Italian nationality and is named Iolanda-Cristina ». The official papers are published in the book. Anyway her Italian nationality is certain.

Dalida does indeed have two nationalities: Book : L’Argus Dalida, page 1 (ISBN : 9782953141153) : « French at heart, the Diva (as her admirers call her) was born in Egypt and kept her Italian nationality, inherited from her ancestors. » here is the link where you can precisely read an extract and where you will find the sentence.

Dalida's popularity in the 1960s in Europe

If we look at sales in the 1960s, Dalida is indeed not the leader in Europe. But if we look at the official rankings (especially in Italy, Germany, Spain etc... because yes they already existed) we can see that Dalida does not dominate the European market either. So if neither the sales nor the rankings justify the position you assigned to her, what are your references? your sources? For my part, I have already stated my sources previously, I refer you to them.

Take the time to consult the sources I have given. Do not take it badly, but you supported false things, an example: to say that Dalida had received the first platinum disc. I will not return to the subject of nationality.

I hope I have enlightened you. If you could give sources, please, to have a fair and solid debate.

While waiting for your reply,

friendly

p.s.: Your pseudonym suggests a lack of objectivity "DalidaEditor". Why this choice ? Elenora.C (talk) 20:15, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Can we stop the personal attacks and focus on the best published sources? I agree with this reversion by Elenora which states that Dalida "is an Italian-French singer and actress born in Egypt." It's accurate and suitable.

The article has been tagged for its lack of neutrality since September 2021. It was also tagged for "too many sections", so Elenora bravely jumped in and reduced the problems, rewriting the lead section to make it more concise. Unfortunately, we still have the faux section headers remaining in place, and much of the non-neutrality is still there. As an example, one cited source says Dalida was accused in 1978 of lip-syncing a performance, but nothing about that accusation is in the article. Her production people admitted to using pre-recorded tracks for the disco numbers. The source is misrepresented because only half of it is summarized: the hammer attack part.

I think the article needs a strong rewrite, accepting the bad with the good. Binksternet (talk) 21:13, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for intervening and refocusing the debate. I try somehow to bring only solid sources, facts and to remain objective in my writings. The facts, their validations, sources and more sources. I would like to intervene already on the part concerning her career. Even if users intervene after the fact to complete. Starting from scratch is necessary. Remove all its false assertions, like the introduction which had been overwhelmed with them. Elenora.C (talk) 21:25, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I've removed the faux headings, which i really dislike, but i agree with Binksternet that a bit of a rewrite is needed ~ perhaps too much detail is there, or perhaps it just needs condensing a bit and made to read as a whole. Happy days ~ Lindsay^Hello 11:37, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello @LindsayH

That's why I provided some answers. Indeed, as Binksternet said, elements are put forward but the sources do not coincide. In reality, most of what is put forward is false information that comes from Barclay's merchandising and marketing techniques, then from other productions (eg Dalida leader in Europe, Dalida n°1 here is there, Dalida seduces intellectuals , Dalida disco queen), add to that sales that do not exist (no sources) and a non-neutral vocabulary. Without counting the contribution of fanatics not-objectives.

Example: The record company claimed that the title had been number 1 in 9 countries. In fact, only in 2 countries around the world.

The article as it stands discredits Dalida's career, it's all about one-upmanship. While she already enjoys an international career with many successes. While thanking you Elenora.C (talk) 12:10, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Dalida was never Miss Egypt in 1954

Another misinformation reported. Here is the evidence after some research. Antigone Costanda was Miss Egypt in 1954 (elected necessarily in 53 for the year 1954) and incidentally Miss World, ahead of Karin Hultman Miss USA. (Source 1 & 2)

Dalida competed in Miss Ondine of Cairo, a variant of Miss Egypt. What is more, she did not win the contest and finished second runner-up. As confirmed by Le journal d'Egypte on June 9, 1954: "Paula Williams was elected Bathing Beauty 1954. Her runners-up are Yolande Gigliotti and Catherine Kindilidis". Paula Williams was indeed Miss Ondine of Cairo. Another source, the book Dalida: Mythe et mémoire (ISBN : 978-2361393977): "[...] it is in this context that the name of a certain Yolande Giglioti appears in the press, but not as a winner but second prize ex eaquo: Mrs Paula Williams has was voted Bathing Beauty 1954". For reasons of fame, reality has been distorted regarding Dalida.

In fact...

Miss Egypt 1953: Marina Papaelia (reference)

Miss Egypt 1954: Antigone Costanda

Miss Egypt 1955: Gladys Hoene

In light Dalida was second runner-up in the 1954 Miss Ondine Cairo contest (Bathing Beauty) and has never been Miss Egypt. --Elenora.C (talk) 11:31, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Okay, I have responded to your information by removing the less important beauty contest text. If she was only second runner up, it's not enough to mention in the first paragraph. Binksternet (talk) 14:30, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Binksternet I was also thinking about deleting the info. But I'm not the only one to decide... in any case, thank you for once again intervening. The term "miss egypt" in one of the titles should also be deleted. I'm going to do it. Elenora.C (talk) 17:01, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Dalida's nationality

In consideration of her official documents and of French and Italian law that Dalida's dual nationality is well and truly established. Italian law provides that "women who after January 1, 1948 have automatically acquired a foreign nationality by effect of marriage with foreign citizens or by foreign naturalization of the Italian-born husband, have not lost Italian nationality". According to the Consulate General of Italy, taking up the notion of "uninterrupted possession", a principle of Italian law. In fact, dual nationality is specific to France. French nationality law, codified after the Revolution, already does not necessarily require a naturalized person to break with his or her original nationality. Consequently, being able to certify her Italian nationality through her birth certificate and her French nationality through her identity documents (implying a certificate of nationality issued after 1948, having married in 1961), Dalida is indeed an Italian-French woman from a legal and therefore factual point of view. With regard to the administrative part, to have the necessary annotations on the act of civil status, one must make a request. But this does not constitute a process of re-acquisition of Italian nationality unlike women married before January 1, 1948; but an administrative formality; never having lost it. In addition, the nationality that one has of another country does not appear on the identity documents. The identity document of a country is an attestation of the nationality of the latter and not of the others. One can thus have several identity papers. Dalida has an Italian ID as well.--Elenora.C (talk) 03:50, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@Elenora.C Ethnicity is not same as nationality! Dalida dropped her Italian nationality upon marriage in 1961 and took the French. [1] Stop reverting please. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me} 12:19, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

It is indeed about nationality and not about ethnicity. Uninterrupted possession, a principle of Italian law, clearly demonstrates this. I will not repeat myself. Italian law refers to nationality, only nationality. Coming within the framework of Italian law, having married in April 1961, Dalida in no way lost her Italian nationality. She has therefore always possessed it, and could have claimed the latter at any time. Elenora.C (talk) 13:05, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

It is time all this nonsense stopped. We agreed a long time ago to the wording "... was a French singer and actress, born in Egypt to Italian parents", which deals succinctly with the complications of her origins. The sequence of events is dealt with in more detail in the main body of the article. LynwoodF (talk) 14:15, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@LynwoodF. A false thing validated before must remain as it if I understand correctly. A user has already endorsed Dalida's Italo-French status following my contributions. I have already provided the sources showing that Dalida never had Egyptian nationality. In which case, we should have written italo-egypto-french. On the other hand, she has a birth certificate which attests to her Italian nationality. But also identity papers. Both countries recognize dual nationality. This is a fact. No tacit loss of Italian nationality; Italy preserving it for its nationals despite marriage to foreigner after the date of January 1, 1948. From the moment when the law grants to preserve Italian nationality, it is necessary for this to already possess it. Also no decree of naturalization of Dalida found in the OJ in France stipulating a formal renunciation of her Italian nationality. QED. Clearly, what can you say about Italian law and uninterrupted possession and French law (dual citizenship)? Aren't they real sources? Did I invent them? Am I responsible for this? I did not participate in any way in the debate on the French, Italian and Spanish Wikipedia pages. Sometimes there were debates. However, it is clearly indicated that she is Italian-French. I worry about how formal and sourced information (required by wikipedia) is brushed aside in favor of a scrap of debate that was overly about a theoretical formulation devoid of any reference; during which incidentally other users who disagreed were not prompted even by a ping. Elenora.C (talk) 15:03, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for saying that my contributions are nonsense. This is very appreciable. --Elenora.C (talk) 15:13, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

What do sources say?

Here are some sources that describe Dalida in terms of nationality. To me, it looks like we can add "Italian" to the first description of her nationality. Dalida was not born into Egyptian nationality, as neither of her parents were Egyptian-born. When she was born she was Italian nationality. Binksternet (talk) 23:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

• "She was Franco-Italian, born and raised in Egypt." Georges-Claude Guilbert (2018). Gay Icons: The (Mostly) Female Entertainers Gay Men Love, page 52.
• "Egypt-born Italian singer and actress who acquired French citizenship upon marriage in 1961." Juliana Tzvetkova (2017). Pop Culture in Europe, page 26.
• "Dalida, Italian singer". Jesse Shiers (2008). The Quotable Bitch: Women Who Tell It Like It Really Is, page 62.
• "A cosmopolitan artist, born in Egypt into an Italian family, Dalida built a career in France and internationally." Evelin Lindner (2010). Gender, Humiliation, and Global Security, page 161.
• "Egypto-Italian pop icon Dalida". Sofian Merabet (2014). Queer Beirut, page 13.
• "Egyptian/French popular singer. Dalida was born in Cairo of Italian parents..." Jennifer Uglow (1991). Macmillan Dictionary of Women's Biography, page 145.
• "Egyptian-born French-Italian singer Dalida..." Andrew Hammond (2005). Pop Culture Arab World!, page 130.
• "Dalida was an Egyptian/Italian/French singer and actress..." Ruby Boukabou (2019). Art Lover's Guide to Paris, page 215.
• "French-Italian star". Egypt Today, 17 January 2021.[2]

Others sources

I also allow myself to add its sources that I had given previously in another section.

• Concerning these alleged Egyptian origins : Book : DALIDA une vie…, page 6 (ISBN :978-2205-06107-9) : « For the Egyptian state, she is of Italian nationality and is named Iolanda-Cristina ». The official papers are published in the book. Anyway her Italian nationality is certain.
• Dalida does indeed have two nationalities: Book : L’Argus Dalida, page 1 (ISBN : 9782953141153) : « French at heart, the Diva (as her admirers call her) was born in Egypt and kept her Italian nationality, inherited from her ancestors. » here is the link where you can precisely read an extract and where you will find the sentence.

@LynwoodF, @DalidaEditor Here is a set of elements brought by @Binksternet and me.

A few simple questions:

Won't you consider the above sources?

Are you going to go against the Italian law which Dalida is under aegis? (as demonstrated with supporting sources and documents)

As a reminder, I quote Wikipedia: "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable through citations to reliable sources". And also argues that: "Law sources that are written by authoritative experts in law, such as legal scholars, and published by respected independent publishing houses are normally reliable sources." here. Waiting for your answer, I allow myself to thank you in advance. Good day to all.--Elenora.C (talk) 10:30, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Dalida dropped her Italian nationality upon marriage in 1961 and took the French. Identity card: [3] Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me} 15:27, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

That image doesn't support your statement that Dalida "dropped her Italian nationality". It supports her French nationality, which nobody here is questioning, but doesn't say anything negative about Italian nationality. She was Italian nationality at birth. Binksternet (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

"Italian citizenship was exclusive until 15 August 1992; therefore, the voluntary acquisition of any non-Italian citizenship meant the automatic renunciation of one’s Italian citizenship for people who were born with Italian citizenship." Can it be more clear?Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me} 20:19, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Stop edit warring.

Truly, i don't care what nationality she was. I do care, however, that the edit warring going on here is poor behaviour, and i urge editors, in particular Elenora.C and DalidaEditor to stop, now, and discuss on this talk page, and not make another single edit to the article until some agreement is reached. If necessary, ask for a third opinion to help resolve the issue, but whatever you do, stop warring ~ it helps no one and puts you both in the wrong. Happy days ~ Lindsay^Hello 07:59, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

LindsayH Hello, believe it I don't want to get into an edit warring. A third party has already intervened. Indeed, @Binksternet agrees that asserting that Dalida is an Italian-French is accurate and suitable. The elements have been provided both in the section "Dalida's nationality" and in the section "A non-neutral article containing false information". It is also enough to look at the discussions of the users who intervened on this page about the nationality of Dalida. You are aware that a banner is currently affixed because this article is written in a non-neutral way and from a fan point of view. This results in the dissemination of a flow of distorted, invented or even sublimated information. DalidaEditor is a leader of a Dalida fan club and has contributed to this. I have been thanked by several users for my interventions. Binksternet is one of them. But can we continue to respond to this request for neutral and enlightened writing of the article if the people who have already placed the article in this situation prevent you from doing so ? I tried to establish the contact and asked him to be understanding and to see the interventions of the other users on the discussion page as well as the new sources in order to better improve the article. Nothing works. And he still doesn't bring sources although I asked him for them, to know where he got his information. I am not here to quarrel with and user or to impose a point of view on the contrary, I work hard and as efficiently as possible to meet this request for new writing. DalidaEditor supported many false information and there are still others to raise. Sources indicated did not refer to what was advanced for example. Or there, highlighting the problem with its non-neutral wording. He evoked a consensus of two years ago on the nationality of Dalida which actually never existed, etc... I believe that the problem goes far beyond an edit warring. Because he has already imposed not facts, sourced, irrefutable and verified but his point of view. By ignoring the interventions of all users. If we want to improve the article, people must be able to do so without suffering interference from people who have already put the article in this state. It is in no way a question of dismissing them but of soliciting them with a view to a constructive contribution and not the reverse. Just a little moderation. While waiting for your reply. Have a good day Elenora.C (talk) 09:39, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

LindsayH yes, the edit war is happening and I hate to be a part of it, but it is my response to what is happening recently. Elonora appeared and started editing everything, alot of thing that were bad in this article were finally getting fixed but some thing we're completely fine, and Elonora started imposing her opinion that is opposite to a consenzus 2 years old. And that is the nationality part. Don't you think how in that situation Elonora first had to do the voting on talk page and then start changing?

After all, you say you don't want any more edits untill this is resolved. But yet Elonora again reverted my change si ce yesterday and her opinion stays publicly. I think that the old version should stay until voting is done.

If there is gonna be any voting. Beause Dalida dropped her Italian nationality upon marriage in 1961 and took the French. [4] And the further discussion is useless. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me} 12:25, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Elenora.C I am not leader of any fanclub, don't spread false info. Dalida Editor _{please ping or message me} 12:30, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Do you think continuing a discussion is really useless? You clearly demonstrate the way you work on Wikipedia. Elenora.C (talk) 12:58, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

As I have said elsewhere, we had a discussion about this some time ago and agreed on a wording. LynwoodF (talk) 14:32, 14 May 2022 (UTC)