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List of archives

Merged Archive WikiProject Preclinical medicine: 1 Merged Archive WikiProject Clinical medicine: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 WikiProject Medicine Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171

WPMED reference campaign

Hey, all,

I got curious about Wiki Edu's system for tracking student editing, and @Sage (Wiki Ed) tells me that it isn't actually restricted to formal classes. I'm trying to set up a "course" now, with the idea that we can use it to see how well we're doing with medicine-related articles. The link is here: dashboard.wikiedu.org/courses/Wikipedia/WikiProject_Medicine_reference_campaign_(2023) [Update: since deleted]. If you're (even a little bit) interested in improving sourcing in our articles, would you please sign up as a "student"? It looks like it will automatically count the number of references added by editors who sign up.

(If the sign-up process asks for your real name, just put in your Wikipedia username again. There is no need to give it any private information.)

My next step is to figure out how to tell it to pay attention only to edits to WPMED-tagged articles. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:57, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi WAID. We need a passcode to join. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Hold on, I'm getting a new URL. Sorry about the confusion... WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:51, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Okay, the new URL is https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikipedia/WikiProject_Medicine_reference_campaign_2023?enroll=qyoufwds I'm just getting it set up, but you should be able to join. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:09, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

So far, we're off to a counterintuitive start: We have removed seven references. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:41, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Go team! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:31, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

WhatamIdoing, any idea how the "words added" counter works? We're all at zero except for you, even though we've clearly added some words to some articles (though I may have net removed words from the article I assigned myself...) Ajpolino (talk) 16:15, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Ah, based on this it looks like only WP:MED tagged articles count? And the -1,096 characters I've added to Lung Cancer get rounded up to 0. I've got some catching up to do! Ajpolino (talk) 18:25, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I limited it to WPMED-tagged articles. I believe that it re-calculates periodically (once a week?) to account for addition and removal of the {{WikiProject Medicine}} tag as well as the deletion of articles.

I also believe that if someone joins "late" (even on the last day), it will retroactively count their contributions throughout the whole designated time period. I can also add people manually. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:49, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

All right, I'm going to have to add some refs. @JenOttawa has just signed up, and she's actually added some refs, instead of just removing them.

Please do sign up at https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikipedia/WikiProject_Medicine_reference_campaign_2023?enroll=qyoufwds I think it would be really nice to look back at the end of the year and see how many refs we have all added. (If you can't figure out the interface, just post here; I can add you in manually.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:16, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Ah! Sorry friends, I'm bringing the ref count down. It's not intentional, I just happen to be rewriting sections of articles that had piled up some outdated references. Hopefully I'll return to the positive with a bit more time. Ajpolino (talk) 20:45, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

It's not a problem. Removing bad sources is important.

I'd love to have more people sign up. I've been meaning to invite some of our newer editors, but I haven't made the time to make it happen yet. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:48, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Neuro-oncology - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroonkologie

Is it okay from "Tumorarten" to "Hirnhautmetastasen" on the German side to show "Neuroonkologie" in "Neuro-oncology" on the English side? Wname1 (talk) 23:56, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

just use the translation tool (or google translate, I guess?)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:12, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

@Wname1, are you asking about the interlanguage links (e.g., the w:de:Neuroonkologie in German and the Neuro-oncology article in English are linked)? WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:08, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

@User:Ozzie10aaaa Am now at about 97% done now with google. I suspect. The points now are the references, this is not my world until today, unfortunately.

@User:WhatamIdoing Yes, about the interlanguage links. I suspect. The points now are the references, this is not my world until today, unfortunately. Wname1 (talk) 20:41, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for doing that work. If the articles in German have the ICD codes (we mostly put that in a blue bar, at the end of the article), then matching those might work for some articles. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:49, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2012 Middle East respiratory syndrome outbreak#Requested move 1 January 2023

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2012 Middle East respiratory syndrome outbreak#Requested move 1 January 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. echidnaLives - talk - edits 02:34, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

• give opinion(gave mine)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Adiadochokinesia for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Adiadochokinesia is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adiadochokinesia until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

EvilxFish (talk) 00:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

commented--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 02:42, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Turning statistics into words

I have just posted Wikipedia:Two times does not mean two times more. I hope that it will be handy whenever you run into the problem of someone saying that there were X at one time, and now there are 3X, so that means that is now 300% more than the original amount. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:45, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Empath

Are the sources in paragraphs 4 and 5 of the current revision of the article Empath strong enough to support these biomedical claims? It smells fishy to me, but the American Psychological Association source (currently cite #13) might meet WP:MEDRS, so I decided not to delete anything yet. Thanks. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:55, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I've done a quick copyedit that I think might help overall. I did vaguely wonder whether this would be better as a disambiguation page, as it mixes someone's preferred name for psychics with research into normal human variation in perceiving other people's emotions. It could be "Empath is someone who is empathetic. See Empathy, Psychic, Science fiction trope." WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:16, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, this is currently a WP:NOTDICTIONARY violation. TompaDompa (talk) 05:28, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

It was marked as reviewed by an experienced NPPer, so likely passes notability. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:37, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

NPP's main purpose is to identify articles that meet the Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion. I don't think we should push notability on to them as well.

That said, the only real question in my mind is whether the "person who has a lot of empathy" subject should be a separate article or merged to Empathy. Sometimes we do the one (Teaching is something done by a Teacher) and sometimes we do the other (Dancing is something done by a Dancer). WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:49, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Unreviewed Featured articles year-end summary

Restoring older Featured articles to standard:

year-end 2022 summary

Unreviewed featured articles/2020 (URFA/2020) is a systematic approach to reviewing older Featured articles (FAs) to ensure they still meet the FA standards. A January 2022 Signpost article called "Forgotten Featured" explored the effort.

Progress is recorded at the monthly stats page. Through 2022, with 4,526 very old (from the 2004–2009 period) and old (2010–2015) FAs initially needing review:

• 357 FAs were delisted at Featured article review (FAR).
• 222 FAs were kept at FAR or deemed "satisfactory" by three URFA reviewers, with hundreds more being marked as "satisfactory", but awaiting three reviews.
• FAs needing review were reduced from 77% of total FAs at the end of 2020 to 64% at the end of 2022.

Of the FAs kept, deemed satisfactory by three reviewers, or delisted, about 60% had prior review between 2004 and 2007; another 20% dated to the period from 2008–2009; and another 20% to 2010–2015. Roughly two-thirds of the old FAs reviewed have retained FA status or been marked "satisfactory", while two-thirds of the very old FAs have been defeatured.

Entering its third year, URFA is working to help maintain FA standards; FAs are being restored not only via FAR, but also via improvements initiated after articles are reviewed and talk pages are noticed. Since the Featured Article Save Award (FASA) was added to the FAR process a year ago, 38 FAs were restored to FA status by editors other than the original FAC nominator. Ten FAs restored to status have been listed at WP:MILLION, recognizing articles with annual readership over a million pageviews, and many have been rerun as Today's featured article, helping increase mainpage diversity.

Examples of 2022 "FAR saves" of very old featured articles

Solar System 2007 FA J. K. Rowling 2007 FA June 26, 2022 TFA Antarctica 2006 FA Joan of Arc 2006 FA Speed of light 2010 FA

All received a Million Award

But there remain almost 4,000 old and very old FAs to be reviewed. Some topic areas and WikiProjects have been more proactive than others in restoring or maintaining their old FAs. As seen in the chart below, the following have very high ratios of FAs kept to those delisted (ordered from highest ratio):

• Biology
• Physics and astronomy
• Warfare
• Video gaming

and others have a good ratio of kept to delisted FAs:

• Literature and theatre
• Engineering and technology
• Religion, mysticism and mythology
• Media
• Geology and geophysics

... so kudos to those editors who pitched in to help maintain older FAs !

FAs reviewed at URFA/2020 through 2022 by content area

FAs reviewed at URFA/2020 from November 21, 2020 to December 31, 2022 (VO, O) Topic area Delisted Kept Total Reviewed Ratio Kept to Delisted (overall 0.62) Remaining to review for 2004–7 promotions Art, architecture and archaeology 10 6 16 0.60 19 Biology 13 41 54 3.15 67 Business, economics and finance 6 1 7 0.17 2 Chemistry and mineralogy 2 1 3 0.50 7 Computing 4 1 5 0.25 0 Culture and society 9 1 10 0.11 8 Education 22 1 23 0.05 3 Engineering and technology 3 3 6 1.00 5 Food and drink 2 0 2 0.00 3 Geography and places 40 6 46 0.15 22 Geology and geophysics 3 2 5 0.67 1 Health and medicine 8 3 11 0.38 5 Heraldry, honors, and vexillology 11 1 12 0.09 6 History 27 14 41 0.52 38 Language and linguistics 3 0 3 0.00 3 Law 11 1 12 0.09 3 Literature and theatre 13 14 27 1.08 24 Mathematics 1 2 3 2.00 3 Media 14 10 24 0.71 40 Meteorology 15 6 21 0.40 31 Music 27 8 35 0.30 55 Philosophy and psychology 0 1 1 – 2 Physics and astronomy 3 7 10 2.33 24 Politics and government 19 4 23 0.21 9 Religion, mysticism and mythology 14 14 28 1.00 8 Royalty and nobility 10 6 16 0.60 44 Sport and recreation 32 12 44 0.38 39 Transport 8 2 10 0.25 11 Video gaming 3 5 8 1.67 23 Warfare 26 49 75 1.88 31 Total 359 Note A 222 Note B 581 0.62 536 Noting some minor differences in tallies: A URFA/2020 archives show 357, which does not include those delisted which were featured after 2015; FAR archives show 358, so tally is off by at least one, not worth looking for. B FAR archives show 63 kept at FAR since URFA started at end of Nov 2020. URFA/2020 shows 61 Kept at FAR, meaning two kept were outside of scope of URFA/2020. Total URFA/2020 Keeps (Kept at FAR plus those with three Satisfactory marks) is 150 + 72 = 222.

But looking only at the oldest FAs (from the 2004–2007 period), there are 12 content areas with more than 20 FAs still needing review: Biology, Music, Royalty and nobility, Media, Sport and recreation, History, Warfare, Meteorology, Physics and astronomy, Literature and theatre, Video gaming, and Geography and places. In the coming weeks, URFA/2020 editors will be posting lists to individual WikiProjects with the goal of getting these oldest-of-the-old FAs reviewed during 2023.

Ideas for how you can help are listed below and at the Signpost article.

• Review a 2004 to 2007 FA. With three "Satisfactory" marks, article can be moved to the FAR not needed section.
• Review "your" articles: Did you nominate a featured article between 2004 and 2015 that you have continuously maintained? Check these articles, update as needed, and mark them as 'Satisfactory' at URFA/2020. A continuously maintained FA is a good predictor that standards are still met, and with two more "Satisfactory" marks, "your" articles can be listed as "FAR not needed". If they no longer meet the FA standards, please begin the FAR process by posting your concerns on the article's talk page.
• Review articles that already have one "Satisfactory" mark: more FAs can be indicated as "FAR not needed" if other reviewers will have a look at those already indicated as maintained by the original nominator. If you find issues, you can enter them at the talk page.
• Fix an existing featured article: Choose an article at URFA/2020 or FAR and bring it back to FA standards. Enlist the help of the original nominator, frequent FA reviewers, WikiProjects listed on the talk page, or editors that have written similar topics. When the article returns to FA standards, please mark it as 'Satisfactory' at URFA/2020 or note your progress in the article's FAR.
• Review and nominate an article to FAR that has been 'noticed' of a FAR needed but issues raised on talk have not been addressed. Sometimes nominating at FAR draws additional editors to help improve the article that would otherwise not look at it.

More regular URFA and FAR reviewers will help assure that FAs continue to represent examples of Wikipedia's best work. If you have any questions or feedback, please visit Wikipedia talk:Unreviewed featured articles/2020/4Q2022.

FAs last reviewed from 2004 to 2007 of interest to this WikiProject

If you review an article on this list, please add commentary at the article talk page, with a section heading == [[URFA/2020]] review== and also add either Notes or Noticed to WP:URFA/2020A, per the instructions at WP:URFA/2020. Commentary not entered on the article talk page may be swept up in archives and lost. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:03, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

1. Cholangiocarcinoma – see also Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cholangiocarcinoma
2. Coeliac disease – see also Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Coeliac disease
3. Influenza – see also Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Influenza
4. Polio – see also Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Poliomyelitis
5. Alaska Mental Health Enabling Act (more law than med)

Looking at the old noms, these editors were involved in the original efforts to get these listed: User:Jfdwolff, User:MastCell, User:Wouterstomp, User:Opabinia regalis, User:Samir, User:Fvasconcellos, User:TimVickers, User:DO11.10, User:Casliber, User:Graham Beards. I'd love to have folks take a look, and let us know whether these are easy saves, hopeless, or somewhere in between. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:15, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

My opinion is that Influenza and Polio should be easily brought to standard if they aren't already; Coeliac disease has dated and uncited content, is already noticed as needing a FAR, and needs work; and I can't say on cholangiocarcinoma. Thanks for following up, WAID! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:01, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Okay, so maybe prioritise one at a time? Am really busy IRL but happy to help out once one is decided to look at first Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:14, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I think 'flu first, since it's flu season. What do other people think? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:38, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Popular pages#List should be an one of the metrics in setting priorities for FA re-assessment, and on that score, Coeliac is higher than influenza, but flu is likely to pick up in page views during flu season. So it's a toss up for me ... Cas and I have our hands full, with little help, just trying to keep the top FA on that list (schizophrenia) in order. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:43, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

De Simone Formulation

This is a true gem. The "De Simone Formulation", aka VSL#3, manufactured by Professor (!) De Simone. There is a vast of health claims.

After reading "The probiotic formulation is classed as a high potency probiotic medical food in the United States." I need to buy it. Problem is that the provided FDA source does not mention it.

Maybe someone can look for this (except the SPA promoting it). Cheers, --Julius Senegal (talk) 19:14, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

It looks like Timtrent handled some copyvios in a previous version. More generally, it looks like an easy target for anyone who might enjoy dropping {{third-party inline}}, {{medical citation needed}}, {{Primary source inline}}, etc. all over the article. (The MOS problems, like calling him "Professor", irritate me, too.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:12, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I did. And it was well enough referenced to be a pass at AFC, but I have strong doubts about the propriety of it today. Acceptance at AFC does not prevent deletion at AfD 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 22:48, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

If AFD, I will support you, no question.

I suggest that a native speaker shall open the discussion for that. Honestly, I think the article is beyond repair. Best, --Julius Senegal (talk) 18:31, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Fluoxetine

Could someone help out re a primary source at Fluoxetine? Thx, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Applied behavior analysis - assistance requested

I was randomly summoned to an RFC at Talk:Applied_behavior_analysis#Request_for_Comment:_dealing_with_controversies. I have little experience with med articles and I attempted to offer some generalist comments. I and at least one other person suggested get input from this Wikiproject. The original involved parties haven't taken action on that, so I am doing so on their behalf.

The RFC isn't very clear and it can be a bit hard to figure out what's going on. I'll attempt to summarize what I've managed to sort out. Applied behavior analysis (ABA) appears to be "overwhelmingly" focused on treatment of autism. Some of the methods and approaches used in this field are controversial, up to the United Nations using the word "torture". There appears to be very significant opposition among the autism community, an unclear level of controversy among relevant professional community, and unclear level of controversy in generalist Reliable Sources. There appears to be a lot of reliance on primary research papers, which appears to be raising significant problems. The main article-dispute is how to address the controversy in the lead, but I'm not sure whether the underlying cause may extend beyond the lead. Alsee (talk) 08:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

I (and another other WPMED) editors have edited this in the past. I gave up. It is indeed a controversial topic not least because of some historical/dodgy aversion therapy incidents (using cattle products to shock people into normality? see Judge Rotenberg Educational Center) and for this reason there was a POV war about how this was all abhorrent and Wikipedia should reveal that Truth™. As always, stronger and more modern sources would be the best way to update the article and resolve the conflicts. The article now is in a dreadful state. One such source is

• Spreat S (2012). "Chapter 10: Behavioral treatments for children with ASDs". In Reber M (ed.). The Autism Spectrum: Scientific Foundations and Treatment. Cambridge University Press. pp. 239–257. doi:10.1017/CBO9780511978616.011. ISBN 9780511978616.

I'm not sure I want to go back there. Bon courage (talk) 08:55, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

For what it's worth I think I had some success getting across the "not truth" message here. I have the impression that my explanation was even positively received. I seem to have a knack for getting that kind of thing under control. However I have almost no familiarity with the special considerations in the Med area, so I'm very reluctant to push my standard non-med answers here.

I tried to check the ref you suggested, but I don't have access. To be honest I was hoping to get back to other work, but I could stick around if an experienced voice for policy-and-consensus is needed to quell the tempest. Alsee (talk) 10:10, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

That source is available via WP:TWL. Bon courage (talk) 10:14, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

After getting access to WP:TWL, you can use this link. Aaron Liu (talk) 12:38, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

If anyone can't access this through TWL, they can also email me for a pdf copy. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:54, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

As a general rule, I find that textbooks are better sources for this sort of dispute than journal articles. In controversial areas, the papers tend to be trying to convince people of something. The textbooks that aren't focused on ABA as the main subject usually present the middle-of-the-road perspective. Some of these might be useful to varying degrees: [1][2][3] You might be able to get books such as ISBN 978-3319912790 through your library.

It might be worth looking for sources about related/offshoot approaches, such as Millieu training and the Early Start Denver Model. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:27, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

• These comments may be more useful over there than over here. Alsee (talk) 02:48, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

page error, arrows in bottom-right corner?

I'm seeing pale blue down arrow and up arrow icons floating in the bottom right corner of this page. When I mouseover on them they say There was an issue displaying this preview. This isn't even a preview, so something certainly seems wrong. I generally try to track the WMF's deployments, but I have no clue what these are or why they are there. I've never seen it anywhere else. Are other people seeing them? Does anyone know why they're there? I have experience dealing with WMF tech, I can raise this with them if appropriate. I figured I check whether there was any local knowledge about it first. Alsee (talk) 09:07, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

They are created by Template:Skip to top and bottom, so not exactly a WMF thing. Maybe Vector 2022 is messing with their functionality? They are working for me when clicked, and hovering does not give me the same message as you get. I get a fairly normal navigation popup. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:54, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

If you're using WP:NAVPOPS (local gadget preferred by experienced editors), it displays as expected. If you're using the default Wikipedia:Hovercards (simplified version enabled by default for readers), then you will get an error message about it not knowing what to display. It does not matter which skin you're using; the behavior is the same even in MonoBook. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:11, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

I think this is phab:T198652, looks like there's a fix just awaiting deployment. the wub "?!" 22:50, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Monkeypox => Mpox

See Talk:Monkeypox#Monkeypox or Mpox. Could do with a few more voices. -- Colin°^Talk 08:58, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Alaska Mental Health Enabling Act Featured article review

I have nominated Alaska Mental Health Enabling Act for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:16, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

duplicates in WHO Model List of Essential Medicines

Hi guys, I hope you've all started the year well. Looking at this article, there are several drugs that are listed twice, even within the same subsection. So, for example, if you look at the muscle relaxants, vecuronium is listed twice. One of the 2 instances has an α next to it, to show that it's on the complementary as well as the core list.

I feel like that's really confusing, to have drugs' names written twice like that. I looked at the talk page, and this concern has been raised before, albeit with unnecessarily aggressive language.

I also note that there is a lot of aggression that has gone on in that talk page, so I hope that by bringing this up I'm not opening Pandora's box.

I think the simplest approach with this list would be use the α to signify that the drug is also on the complementary list, in addition to being on the core list. If there is consensus to do this, I volunteer to make the changes. Dr. Vogel (talk) 11:00, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

That would imply the drug is also on the core list. There are entries that are on just one list or the other. --Whywhenwhohow (talk) 18:55, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, and for that, we could have a different symbol. That would leave us with no duplicates, and the vast majority of drugs would have no symbols at all. Or we could colour-code it. There are a number of ways this can be made to look neat.

I'm just worried that duplicating the names is really confusing. And if you look at the history, there have been lots of editors trying to remove the duplicates, thinking it was unintentional. Dr. Vogel (talk) 21:00, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree that additional notes would be the optimal solution, not listing the same drug twice. RickyCourtney (talk) 23:17, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

The note(s) may apply to just the entry on the core list or just the entry on the complementary list. Combining the entries with both the symbol and the note(s) makes it less clear. Some medications are in more than one class or have more than one indication and are listed more than once on the list in separate sections. What is confusing about listing the same medication twice? --Whywhenwhohow (talk) 01:18, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

For example, if you look under "muscle relaxants", it says that the drugs are vecuronium and vecuronium. If you look under diuretics, it says the drugs are "mannitol and spironolactone", and "mannitol and spironolactone". You don't think that's confusing? Dr. Vogel (talk) 01:25, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Notes can be as long as needed to describe these nuances. RickyCourtney (talk) 04:16, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

What do you think about spelling it out in a table? For the ==Muscle relaxants (peripherally-acting) and cholinesterase inhibitors== section, if could look like this:

Muscle relaxants (peripherally-acting) and cholinesterase inhibitors

Drug name	Core list	Complementary list
Atracurium	Core	–
Neostigmine	Core	–
Suxamethonium	Core	–
Pyridostigmine	Core	Complementary
Vecuronium	Core	Complementary

I think it might be clearer if we don't rely on people to click through to the explanatory footnote. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:51, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, that would work too, it's also clearer than what we have now. Personally I probably prefer lists and I don't mind footnotes, but I do accept that your solution looks very neat. Perhaps a tick in each cell instead of spelling out the whole word every time. Dr. Vogel (talk) 22:43, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Mast cell activation syndrome

I could use some assistance on Mast cell activation syndrome, a fairly new and rare syndrome with very specific diagnostic criteria. In recent years, MCAS has become somewhat of a fad diagnosis, whereby it is promoted as the cause of many disparate health problems. As discussed here, misinformation and confusion about MCAS are driving anxiety and needless medical evaluations.

An AAAAI consensus document describes the problem of flawed and overly-broad diagnostic criteria that is promoted in the media and in certain publications. The publications suggested as unreliable have Lawrence Afrin, MD as an author. Afrin operates an "integrative medicine" clinic with Tania Dempsey, MD. Previously, he was a professor at University of Minnesota.

First, although the MCAS article has been cleaned up, it still needs fact checking and removal of citations to Afrin.

Second, there is some conflict over recent edits based on Afrin's publications, which I reverted. A new article on Long COVID by Long COVID patients and Eric Topol, MD references Afrin. The editor @Innisfree987 suggests that this secondary source is a reliable source for the statement "MCAS symptoms are associated with Long COVID." Of course, definitions for Long COVID include many non-specific symptoms, similar to Afrin's discredited standards for MCAS.

Overall, the linking of MCAS to Long COVID and including references to Afrin and colleagues is WP:PROFRINGE and not compliant with WP:MEDRS. ScienceFlyer (talk) 05:38, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Well, have to say I consider this account pretty one-sided and am disappointed @ScienceFlyer would not leave a neutral request for a third opinion. I am happy to add more if that would now be helpful but in the interests of neutrality, I’ll just say please see the talk page section Talk:Mast cell activation syndrome#Review articles removed as well as the edit summaries for more information. I do think more opinions would be helpful as clearly the discussion was not progressing. Innisfree987 (talk) 06:04, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

MEDRS help needed at a featured article review

Wikipedia:Featured article review/Uranium/archive1 - the article itself includes some content subject to MEDRS related to health effects of uranium exposure. Would anyone familiar with MEDRS be willing to give the medical sourcing there a look-over? Hog Farm _Talk 14:18, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I read through the section that pertains to human health and looked at the citations. Most are from older text books and review articles. There are one or two primary research papers cited that I noticed and numerous places were we could find more recent MEDRS sources, I would imagine fairly easily. I added "updated needed tags" in those places. I hope that this is ok as a starting place. I do not have time to find the references myself, but can try to swing back later in the week. Please do feel free to remove my edit if you disagree! JenOttawa (talk) 03:32, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi again @Hog Farm: I found a few review articles with free full-texts that may be able to fill these gaps: [4][5], [6], a 2012 gov report from Canada([7], Europe [8], and from ATSDR in the States [9]. JenOttawa (talk) 11:51, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Functional MRI Methods and Findings in Schizophrenia

Topic specialist help needed to review this new draft. Besides the easily fixed headings an other simple MOS errors this draft needs a knowledgeable editor to evaluate the claims and sources. Please help. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:36, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback on Persistent stapedial artery

Hello you lovely people, I've just finished writing this article, and I would like some inputs/feedback. I do accept that since this is not my area of expertise, there may be errors. I am willing to learn, however, so if some of you could take a look that'd be great. Thank you. X750. Spin a yarn? _{Articles I've screwed over?} 02:33, 2 February 2023 (UTC)