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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2a02:8012:227b:0:8875:5fa5:e124:5feb (talk) at 14:12, 30 May 2023. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Unproven possibilities and future additions

There is a list of all leaders for which there is not a death date on Rulers.org (at least before one month), and I sorted them in few categories (U stands for "unproven", A for "alive"):

Name State Position Birth note
Possibly dead, but potential additions if a recent source can be found
Emmanuel Bruny Haiti Executive Government Council (1957) 1915
Feliciano Avelar El Salvador Member of the Civic-Military Directory (1961-1962) 1919
Avtar Singh Sikkim Political Officer (1964-1966) 18 October 1921 Unlikely position qualifies; possibly died in 2015 [1] common name/surname combination though
Ricardo Falla Cáceres El Salvador Junta of Government (1960-1961) 1921 Spanish wiki [2] and some other sources [3] [4] claim 1929-1990
Jaime Florentino Mendieta Vargas Bolivia Junta of Commanders of the Armed Forces (1971) 1922 Possibly 1926-2000?
Marino Vagnetti San Marino Captain Regent (1971-1972, 1989) 1924
Ahmad al-Sayari Yemen (Kingdom) Prime Minister (1962) 1924 Unclear status/DoB list
No citation, see discussion below
Ri Kun-mo DPR Korea Premier (1986-1988) 1926 Likely deceased, see discussion below
Emmanuel Bodjollé Togo Chairman of the Insurrection Committee (1963) 1928 Needs a better citation
Michel Lévêque Monaco Minister of State (1997-2000) 19 July 1933 Needs a more recent citation
Martin M'Bia Congo (People's Republic of the)
[a.k.a. Congo-Brazzaville]		 Member of the Military Committee (1977) 1934 Unclear status/DoB list
No citation
Óscar Pammo Rodríguez [es] Bolivia Junta member (1981) 1934 Unclear status/DoB list
Needs a more recent citation (2006: [5])
"None of the Soviet Republic Party Secretaries in this table were in power when their republics were recognized as independent states by other United Nations member states, or by the Commission of the European Economic Community, which should be the criterion for their inclusion in the main article table. Vaino Väljas is a special case, as he was still Party Chairman on August 20, 1991 (the day Estonia restored its independence); however, the Popular Front of Estonia had won the ESSR's republic elections on March 18, 1990, and were directing the government in Tallinn, not the republic's Communist Party." – Jwkozak91 (talk) 05:57, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

1. Good possibility of being alive (1926-1929, 1930 and later to be done): (U=3, A=0)

  • Ambrose Patrick Genda, Sierra Leone, head of government, 1927, somebody with the same name died in London in 2001 (and in "Reinventing the Colonial State: Constitutionalism, One-party Rule, and Civil" (p. 138), it is claimed that he had lived in London) and German wiki claimed he died in 2015
Asked about him on German Wiki, he died in 2002, the user told me that the source is "The Paradoxes of History and Memory in Post-Colonial Sierra Leone". I still won't cross him, as I can't preview the book, but I am 99% sure he is not alive anymore StjepanHR (talk) 15:11, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree he's very likely deceased, though I notice that the page reference given in the German article (p679) can't be right because the publisher only lists the book as having 332 pages! Curiously, Genda doesn't appear on List of heads of state of Sierra Leone at all - I don't know why, as others in 'office' for as little as a couple of days do appear. 217.155.59.206 (talk) 12:16, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ri Kun-mo, North Korea, prime minister, 1926, published in 2004, chronology through 2001, now disputed. Died in 2001 according to Alexandre Mansourov.
"Historical Dictionary of Togo" (ed. 2021) refers to him as "retired". Is it enough to put him on the list? StjepanHR (talk) 03:38, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

– Adding to prevent further archiving – Jwkozak91 (talk) 08:24, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

1934 births

I think this concept of a table is a good one.

As of 27 December 2021, there are 3 people left to add to the hidden 5 in the main article table. I could only find these people going through 1934#Births (again, feel free to add others or remove those who are deceased):

Name State Position Birth note
Rudolf Schuster Slovakia President (1999–2004) 4 January 1934 Added to main list 9/7/2022
Jean Chrétien Canada Prime Minister (1993–2003) 11 January 1934 Added to main list 15/7/2022
Édith Cresson France Prime Minister (1991–1992) 27 January 1934 Added to main list 30/8/2022
Eddie Fenech Adami Malta Prime Minister (1987–1996; 1998–2004)
President (2004–2009)		 7 February 1934 Added to main list 8/9/2022
Mohamed Ennaceur Tunisia Acting President (2019) 21 March 1934 Added to main list 4/11/2022
J. Y. Pillay Singapore Acting President (2017) 30 March 1934 Added to main list 5/11/2022
Édouard Frank Central African Republic Prime Minister (1991–1992) 5 April 1934 Added to main list 30/11/2022
John Malecela Tanzania Prime Minister (1990–1994) 19 April 1934 Added to main list 31/12/2022
Pedro Pires Cape Verde Prime Minister (1975–1991)
President (2001–2011)		 29 April 1934 Added to main list 3/1/2023
Henri Konan Bédié Côte d'Ivoire Acting President (1993–1995)
President (1995–1999)		 5 May 1934 Added to main list 6/2/2023
Lee Hong-koo South Korea Prime Minister (1994–1995) 9 May 1934 Added to main list 9/2/2023
Heng Samrin Kampuchea (People's Republic of) President of the Council of State (1979–1992)
Party General Secretary (1981–1991)		 25 May 1934 Added to main list 11/2/2023
Monica Dacon Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Acting Governor-General (2002) 4 June 1934 Added to main list 22/4/2023
Albert II Belgium King (1993–2013) 7 June 1934 Added to main list 23/4/2023
Mikio Aoki Japan Acting Prime Minister (2000) 8 June 1934
Désiré Rakotoarijaona Madagascar (People's Republic of) Prime Minister (1977–1988) 19 June 1934
Dumitru Mazilu Romania Member of the National Salvation Front Council (1989) 24 June 1934 Unclear status list
Fernando José de França Dias Van-Dúnem Angola Prime Minister (1991–1992; 1996–1999) 24 August 1934
Ricardo de la Espriella Panama President (1982–1984) 5 September 1934
Apas Jumagulov Kyrgyzstan Prime Minister (1993–1998) 19 September 1934
Eugene Koffi Adoboli Togo Prime Minister (1999–2000) 3 October 1934
Yakubu Gowon Nigeria Head of the Federal Military Government (1966–1975) 19 October 1934
Hamilton Green Guyana Prime Minister (1985–1992) 9 November 1934
Ingvar Carlsson Sweden Prime Minister (1986–1991; 1994–1996)
Nicéphore Soglo Benin Acting Prime Minister (1990–1991)
President (1991–1996)		 29 November 1934
Tarcisio Bertone Vatican Camerlengo during papal vacancy (2013) 2 December 1934 Unclear status list
Pratibha Patil India President (2007–2012) 19 December 1934
Stjepan Mesić Yugoslavia
Croatia		 President of the Presidency (1991)
President (2000–2010)		 24 December 1934
Paulin Obame-Nguema Gabon Prime Minister (1994–1996) 28 December 1934
Waldo Bernal Pereira [es] Bolivia Junta member (1980; 1981) 1931/1934 Added to unclear status/DoB list 13/2/2022
Félix Mouzabakani Congo-Brazzaville Co-Commander of the Army (1963) 1934 Added to unclear status/DoB list 9/7/2022
Severiano Tura San Marino Captain Regent (1985) c. 1934 Added to unclear DoB list 8/2/2023

– Jwkozak91 (talk) 08:06, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe Waldo Bernal Pereira should be added to the main article (unknown birth with unclear status) StjepanHR (talk) 18:17, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I put Bernal Pereira in an unknown birth with unclear status table; it was deleted by another user.– Jwkozak91 (talk) 21:24, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Any recent media coverage? Star Garnet (talk) 22:04, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand Spanish, but from this: [6] , with the use of Google translate, it seems he was living on a farm in 2018. StjepanHR (talk) 23:22, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- Adding to prevent further archiving TheCorriynial (talk) 20:34, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And again. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 08:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ambrose Genda

I think we can cross him for good:

  • myheritage: [7]
  • here is a background of an old photo of him: [8], which confirms his wife's name

I will leave few days for other users to leave their opinion. StjepanHR (talk) 11:11, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fairly conclusive I would say, in combination with the earlier discussion about him, (plus the individual in the photo at myheritage matches the person in this photo] I found) so would agree with removal. 217.155.59.206 (talk) 13:14, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, if MyHeritage has records, could someone possibly cross reference Bruny and any of our other unclear folks? TheCorriynial (talk) 21:59, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It would be useful, especially if somebody is already a member. StjepanHR (talk) 00:48, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, actually it doesn't have to be just MyHeritage. Just as long as its a genealogy page of some type with access to archives (Whether it be governmental/census, death registries, newspapers, so on). TheCorriynial (talk) 02:52, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Max Bolte

According to the page 8 of Jet magazine from 10 November 1960, Mr. Bolte was living in exile in New York. A man with the same name died in New Jersey in 1989: [9]. It seems that there are about 2500 people with the surname Bolte in the USA nowadays and that there are 100 000 men named Max in the USA (approximately 1 in 3000 people), meaning there is good possiblity that this is "our" Max Bolte. Can anybody check MyHeritage for more details? StjepanHR (talk) 00:56, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can scratch him off the list. World Statesmen says Max Bolte died before 2000, so that 1989 death date could be correct. Also, much earlier attempts seems to have came to the same conclusion using World Statesmen. TheCorriynial (talk) 18:41, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I haven't seen Your reply until now. If anyone else agrees, I will cross him. StjepanHR (talk) 22:43, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yep. No reason to keep him on the list any longer. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 23:06, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Will remove him. Further proof that I have missed is that the part of New Jersey he lived in was West New York. StjepanHR (talk) 23:40, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ali Haroun

Ali Haroun (born 8 February 1927) was a member of the High Council of State which ruled Algeria from 1992-1994. Although the successive chairmen of that body appear alone in the List of heads of state of Algeria, the article on the Council describes it as a collective presidency. Thus it seems he could be included alongside members of juntas in the unlcear status list, if we can find confirmation of him being alive. I'm inclined to add him to the unproven possibilities table above. The only other member of the Council apparently alive, Major General Khaled Nezzar is not yet old enough for inclusion, but seems to have a higher profile, so when the time comes he may be easier to find a source for. 217.155.59.206 (talk) 13:00, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think I found this person, having received a Japanese honor - https://www.aps.dz/en/algeria/43205-ali-haroun-decorated-with-japan-emperor-s-order-of-the-sacred-treasure.
The photo provided in the article of the person seems to looks very close to the one in the wiki article.
Although I noticed in archives that he may have been removed due the nature of collective presidencies.

TheCorriynial (talk) 14:29, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well done on an excellent find! 217.155.59.206 (talk) 10:15, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ali Haroun was already listed some years ago, and later removed as the High State Council had a clear leader, first Boudiaf, then Ali Kafi. I think Haroun does not belong here. --82.52.59.252 (talk) 17:24, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO, the only thing that could justify Haroun's inclusion is the fact that the council was formed on 14 January and Mohamed Boudiaf was named as the leader on 16 January, what indicates that the council was in the category "collective presidencies without a clear leader" for those two days. If sources show up indicating that Mr. Boudiaf was the leader from 14 January, Mr. Haroun should be removed from my list, if you ask me. StjepanHR (talk) 22:42, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ri Kun-mo

Its been over twenty years since he was last seemed he was still around. And his article mentioned he wasn't in great shape at the time he was replaced, And with the fact NK could have been expected to have announced his death, might imply there was some kind of falling out. Its probably safe to assume he probably should be removed, as no evidence has been found. TheCorriynial (talk) 04:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Plus, as above under the Unclear leaders needing sources, a source seems to site 2001 as his death year, and if memory serves, World Statesmen uses that year as well. TheCorriynial (talk) 04:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While I am (as is obvious from my latest activity) all for reducing the number of people on the list, I have also seen 2012, as the year of his death, which would invalidate the book in question. If any additional source is found, I am fine with him being removed, but that 2012 thing is bothering me a bit for now. StjepanHR (talk) 17:47, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Random search found a "Ri Kun-mo" on a Hairstyle web site, from Feb 2023. While I doubt its the leader (Although, the aging looks possible, the site claims the "97 year old North Korean primer"), its makes me wonder if there's another person with the same name that's confusing the search... And how he's been radio silent for over a decade, if 2012 was his last "known" date. Here's the random search hit: [10]

TheCorriynial (talk) 00:09, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It would be ironic though if a hairstyle website, if the source is "decent", is the only thing that could keep his claim "alive" in the West and outside of NK. TheCorriynial (talk) 00:17, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That looks very much like a satirical site to me (references to 'tabloids' and 'gossip' in relation to North Korea is a dead giveaway). More pertinently, the picture from the hairstyle site that comes up in Google Image search for Ri Kun-mo and appears on the page linked to appears to be the similar-age but otherwise entirely unconnected (!) Roger Corman. It's possible there could be another image on the page that's not displaying in my browser, of course. 217.155.59.206 (talk) 12:15, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then my theory was right. I wasn't convinced either, And the fact reverse search of the photo pulled up someone not even related likely seals the source as moot. TheCorriynial (talk) 01:36, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Facepalm for this last thing. Anyway there is no source at all reporting Ri Kun-mo alive in 2012. It just stated something happened when he was governor of Nort Hamgyong in the early 2000s. Ri has been long dead.--87.18.132.214 (talk) 15:37, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@87.18.132.214 Do you have a source that confirms Ri Kun-mo's death and or discredits the 2012 "report?" TheCorriynial (talk) 17:11, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Martin M'Bia (Mbia)

According to this, he is dead: [11]

I would like to hear more opinion on reliability of the source, as it lists Pascal Bima as living (died in 2003 according to [12]), as well as Jean-Michel Ebaka (died 2019). Is it possibly the article confused Bima and Mbia?

Additional source: [13] . Comment by Jules Oncle. And this: [14]

Do you think this is enough to cross him off the list? StjepanHR (talk) 01:44, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd want someone to make sure it does all match up, but if it does, I cant see any reason why he should remain on the list. TheCorriynial (talk) 18:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On balance of the above I think he's likely dead (at least insofar as we can't specifically prove he isn't), but even if not, I think he can be removed from consideration following a previous discussion I initiated (posting as 217.155.59.206) as to whether he qualified anyway. 2A02:8012:227B:0:B151:3C0E:CF41:30EE (talk) 10:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looking through the archives, it seems rather early on most people wrote him off as no longer being alive, to as person above said, does not fit requirements. TheCorriynial (talk) 20:55, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bill Hayden and Edward Lawrence

This source lists Bill as alive in 2022, if someone wishes to update him: https://www2.cbn.com/news/news/85-year-old-atheist-bill-hayden-explains-why-he-converted-christianity TheCorriynial (talk) 00:48, 14 April 2023 (UTC) Edward is listed as attending an event here in 2022: https://www.sknvibes.com/news/newsdetails.cfm/120395 Im not currently able to edit, but for someone wanting to update the list, here you are.[reply]

Luis Leoro Franco

IMHO, he should be excluded, as the junta had a clear leader. StjepanHR (talk) 14:04, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I saw his name on World Statesmen when it was put in the possibilities. TheCorriynial (talk) 17:08, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Any other opinions? By all accounts, Alfredo Poveda was the official leader of the junta. StjepanHR (talk) 13:04, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I added him to the possibilities table just for completeness, but considering his article on Spanish Wiki gives two diffeent years of birth a decade apart, I must admit I wasn't at all confident that he could meet the threshhold for inclusion. On that basis I'll go ahead and remove him. 2A02:8012:227B:0:DDF6:42C0:DAA6:FD03 (talk) 16:43, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

1935 births

I appreciate it may be a little too soon for this, but I've put together the following list of 1935 births, who will start to be eligible for inclusion in the article within a few months. To make sure I found as many as possible, I went through the articles on heads of state and heads of government for each state in turn. Of course I may nonetheless have missed some, so additions would be welcome. Any sources that can be found that's newer or better is also welcome.

Name State Position Birth Note/sources
Giovanni Lajolo Vatican President of the Governorate (2006–2011) 3 January 1935 Unclear status list
António Ramalho Eanes Portugal President of the Revolutionary Council (1976–1982)
President (1976–1986)		 25 January 1935 [15]
Artur Rasizade Azerbaijan Prime Minister (1996–2003, 2003–2018) 26 February 1935 [16] Better source if possible is needed.
Mohammed Basindawa Yemen Prime Minister (2011–2014) 4 April 1935
Peter Hollingworth Australia Governor-General (2002–2003) 10 April 1935 [17] Slightly better source could be welcome.
P. J. Patterson Jamaica Prime Minister (1992–2006) 10 April 1935 [18]
Sharavyn Gungaadorj Mongolian People's Republic Prime Minister (1990) 2 May 1935 Needs a source, article does mention he runs a Agropro, maybe they have chair person list or have been in the news.
Nemesi Marqués Oste Andorra Representative of the Episcopal Co-Prince (1993–2012) 17 May 1935
José Mujica Paraguay President (2010–2015) 20 May 1935 [19] He speaks a lot to press, newer sources could be used.
Léon Kengo wa Dondo Zaire First State Commissioner (1982–1986, 1988–1990);
Prime Minster (1994–1997)		 22 May 1935
Sultan Ali Keshtmand Afghanistan (Democratic Republic of) Prime Minister (1981–1988, 1989–1990) 22 May 1935 Last source known is 2006, will need to find something modern in order to be on list.
Jim Bolger New Zealand Prime Minister (1990–1997) 31 May 1935 [20]
Lee Hoi-chang South Korea Prime Minister (1993–1994) 2 June 1935 Needs source that mentions him not running for president.
Rodrigo Borja Cevallos Ecuador President (1988–1992) 19 June 1935 Source is needed.
Tenzin Gyatso Tibet Ruler (1950–1959)
Dalai Lama (1937–present)		 6 July 1935 Unclear status list? [21], although he has been in the news lately.
Abdou Diouf Senegal Prime Minister (1970–1980)
President (1981–2000)		 7 September 1935 [22] Better source if possible is needed.
Henri Benoit de Coignac [tr] Andorra French Viguier (1982–1984) 3 October 1935
Daniel Williams Grenada Governor-General (1996–2008) 4 November 1935
Mahmoud Abbas Palestine President (2005–present)
Prime Minister (2003)
Chairman PLO (2004–present)		 15 November 1935 Unlclear status list? Member state of the UN. [23]
Stojan Andov Macedonia (Former Yugoslav Republic of) Acting President (1995) 30 November 1935 [24]
Adnan Badran Jordan Prime Minister (2005) 15 December 1935 [25] confirmation needed.
Edward Schreyer Canada Governor General (1979–1984) 21 December 1935 [26]
Salman Saudi Arabia King (2015–present)
Prime Minister (2015–2022)		 31 December 1935 [27], although I assume he has more recent news out there.
Al-Jazuli Daf'allah Sudan Prime Minister (1985–1986) December 1935 Unclear DoB list
Leonel Mário d'Alva São Tomé and Príncipe Acting President (1991) 1935 Unclear DoB list
Mohammed Ali Salim Libya Acting President (2012) 1935 Unclear DoB/status list
Young Vivian Niue Premier (1992–1993, 2002–2008) 1935 Unclear DoB/status list

2A02:8012:227B:0:DDF6:42C0:DAA6:FD03 (talk) 12:50, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I did some looking up of this as well, and I'll add the few missing I've found. And my list has sources, maybe I'll add them as well. TheCorriynial (talk) 15:57, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for adding sources and Sharavyn Gungaadorj, who I missed. I've removed Sir John Swan though as Bermuda isn't an sovereign state, but a British Overseas Territory. On a similar basis, I looked again at whether Young Vivian of Niue should be included. Political status of the Cook Islands and Niue seems quite clear that the island's status is akin to the Compact of Free Association states. 2A02:8012:227B:0:DDF6:42C0:DAA6:FD03 (talk) 17:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In relation to Mahmoud Abbas, Palestine has been recognised by the UN since 2012, but his tenure goes back before that, so I was unsure precisely what description to use for him and whether/in what way the shift in status should be indicated in the table. That's why I put 'Unclear staus?' with a question mark - I was unclear about his specific title(s) as leader over time.
I was similarly unsure about the Dalai Lama. He will almost certainly be in the 'Unclear status' table, but what to describe him as, and over what time period? I think what I've put in the table is simple and accurate, but it may not be. 2A02:8012:227B:0:8875:5FA5:E124:5FEB (talk) 14:12, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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