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December 15

Underneath the arches

(Reposted from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject London Transport, where there was no response.)

In urban Britain, railway arches are almost ubiquitous. Searching online finds no end of shops in arches, cafes in arches, businesses run in arches, light industry in arches, arches for rent - almost all contemporary. But railway arches have been around for at least 187 years. A search on WP finds them all over the place, but the information is all scattered.

Does any one know of a history, or other deeper analysis, of railway arches? Their engineering, architecture, economics, sociology? Sadly, this documentary is focussed on the homeless people in the arches, not the architecture - but they are still part of the bigger picture.

So: a book? website? PhD thesis? Photo essay? Radio or TV documentary? Is there anything out there that gives the arches the attention they surely deserve? -- Verbarson  talkedits 18:00, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Verbarson: Railway Architecture (1979), edited by Marcus Binney and David Pearce (ISBN 0-906223-62-8), has a chapter entitled "Bridges and Viaducts". It has some useful general history about bridges and viaducts (engineering and architecture in particular) but sadly not very much about the use of under-arch space – although it is stated that "the drooping arches of the London–Greenwich viaduct now create the atmosphere of the London Horror Museum" (i.e. the predecessor of the present London Dungeon). In my own specialist area of places of worship, I am aware of some railway arches in London being used, or having been used in the past, as places of worship for various groups. I too would be interested in reading any theses, books etc. on the subject. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 22:30, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That work can be "borrowed" to read in full online at archive.org (you have to open a free account which is quite simple). Alansplodge (talk) 13:34, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In and about London there are thousands of railway arches belonging to the various companies. Some few of these are used as shops, a few more as warehouses and workshops; but the great majority are, at the present moment, totally unoccupied and unproductive...
The railway arch was, of course, a functional necessity for many of the approach routes, if they were to avoid the wholesale street closures and level crossings, against which Parliament had set its face. All the early hopes that arches might be turned to advantage miscarried, however, and within a few years they became symbols of all that was shabby and down-at-heel ....
Probably enough for a brief article, Railway arches in London, which could link to several others. Alansplodge (talk) 13:10, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can add:
A perusal of the bibliographies of this and the 2017 thesis does not reveal any over-arching work addressing the arches in their totality. -- Verbarson  talkedits 14:50, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have started Draft:Railway arches in London, currently just a dump for useful links and sources. If anyone finds further sources, please add them in. -- Verbarson  talkedits 16:08, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This should be obvious, but the issue of urban railway arches is not unique to London. There have been very interesting urban renewal projects using these in Berlin and Paris, for example. Xuxl (talk) 14:05, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't sure if great lengths of brick arches was a uniquely British solution; the Americans apparently preferred to elevate their railways on steel girders (probably to facilitate the inevitable car chases in Hollywood crime films). We do have an article on the very first railway elevated on brick-arches, the London Bridge – Greenwich Railway Viaduct. Alansplodge (talk) 16:40, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Bear in mind that the London Bridge – Greenwich Railway Viaduct predated Bessemer steel by 20 years. There wasn't really any alternative to masonry. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 18:12, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe so, but the Tottenham and Forest Gate Railway was built on brick arches in 1894, nearly 30 years after the New York Elevated Railroad. Alansplodge (talk) 12:57, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Two points, neither of which I know a definitive answer to. (1) Would there not be a case of following local tradition? Particularly if the new viaduct was to link with an existing one? (2) London is largely built on london clay whereas New York (in particular) is built on a rocky substrate. NY was able to raise skyscrapers far earlier than London since they could go to bedrock whereas London structures have to rely on sophisticated piling. Could this have influenced the lighter point loading? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:50, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Railways were scarcely followers of tradition for tradition's sake. However, London is built on clay and (historically) of clay. I would imagine that in Victorian times a brick viaduct was architecturally and logistically easier, and financially cheaper, to build than any sort of wrought iron or steel structure. The materials and expertise would have been readily available. Railways loved cheap. -- Verbarson  talkedits 21:08, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alansplodge -- the photo you linked to was of a New York City "El" or elevated urban railway, which ran directly above the middle of major city streets for miles, and was required to interfere with their roadway functions as little as possible, so of course wide masonry construction would not have been considered suitable for that purpose... AnonMoos (talk) 07:15, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Which was exactly why the brick viaducts were built in London. Alansplodge (talk) 12:57, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what you mean -- I think railways in London crossed city streets to get to the stations, but they didn't generally run right up the middle of major city streets for miles, the way NYC urban transit "Els" did. We don't seem to have a separate article on the formerly-extensive NYC "El" system (now partially replaced by subways...) AnonMoos (talk) 21:16, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, they certainly traversed miles of heavily built-up areas, if not the actual city centre. Alansplodge (talk) 19:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Playwrights' Studio Scotland, Grae Cleugh

Hello I was previously blocked from editing (for trying to remove my name from page Oliver Emanuel. Having more than a flailing interest in Scottish Literature, and thetre, and having had an unwelcome introduction to the workings of the worlds most popular website I noticed a couple of glaring omissions Playwrights' Studio Scotland, and Grae Cleugh.

I created drafts of both pages but my submissions were declined because I was editing as a blocked user.

Can anyone help with creating the articles ?

They are both listed on AFC 81.159.2.36 (talk) 18:43, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

December 17

Boot Monument

I've been looking for more information about the actual construction of the Boot Monument at the Saratoga National Historic Park. Is anyone else able to find more information on John Watts de Peyster's role in erecting it or anything like that? Thanks~ ‍ ‍ Relativity ‍ ‍ 03:07, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to The Real Benedict Arnold (p. 235), the sculptor of the Boot Monument may have been George Edwin Bissell who designed some other memorials instigated by de Peyster. Alansplodge (talk) 18:36, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The 1908 biography of de Peyster is viewable on archive.org (apparently self-commissioned so probably not a critical one). Alansplodge (talk) 18:43, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The link above is for Volume I (up to and including the Civil War), Volume II is here, but a quick look at the index fails to find any mention of the monument, although there is a whole chapter on many others that he commissioned, often commemorating his own relatives or his acts of philanthropy. Alansplodge (talk) 19:01, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

December 19

Number of or list of artists of the Pomological Watercolor Collection

Hi, and hope you're doing well! This would be a straightforward question if I didn't have conflicting information. As of today, the official USDA Pomological Watercolors site says "about 21 artists". But older sources give different numbers: a September 2000 USDA publication says "about 50", an August 2011 Smithsonian piece "some 65".

Since these images are public domain and in Commons (commons:Category:USDA Pomological Watercolors), is there any way we could pull a list of artists? Perhaps we can see if some artists changed the way they signed their paintings and got double-counted before the collection was unpaywalled around 2015. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 05:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I found this blog which repeats the number of 65 artists but also says:
The USDA's top 3 artists were Deborah Griscom Passmore, Amanda Almira Newton (1860-1943) and Mary Daisy Arnold (1873-1955), who each painted over 1,000 watercolours. Between them, they were responsible for over half the collection. Alansplodge (talk) 15:33, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Bingo! From Huntia Volume 4 in January 1982: White, J. J., & Neumann, E. A. The Collection of Pomological Watercolors at the U.S. National Arboretum, pp. 103-123, Appendix I (p. 110 or 10/24 of the pdf) Some U.S.D.A. Artists, Late 19th - Early 20th Century.
There are (by my count) 64 named artists and a further 10 known only by their initials, together with the caveat; "No doubt the list is incomplete" as apparently some works are unsigned. Alansplodge (talk) 15:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]


December 20

Division of totality of human knowledge

Hi sir I am teenager I am exploring subjects I just want to ask you that We see disciplines or subjects in our school and universities Like science , commerce ,humanities etc They are divisions of human knowledge I want to know actually how many fields of study are there in total How many divisions of human knowledge we can do on very broadest level A list of all known disciplines without excluding any discipline All disciplines that are studied in all universities of world Stupidity9870 (talk) 01:49, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The most famous attempt at such was the Figurative system of human knowledge from the 18th-century French Encyclopedia, but of course a lot has happened since then. AnonMoos (talk) 05:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As a start (and only as a start) have a look at List of Dewey Decimal classes. Your local library probably uses this system and it's a handy backbone to hang things on. As regards "I want to know actually how many fields of study are there in total" and "A list of all known disciplines without excluding any discipline", I suspect that the answer is effectively infinite. As each subject is studied in greater depth it tends to fragment into specialities which form their own fields. HTH, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:57, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
See also Library of Congress Classification#Full classification outline for another breakdown. —Tamfang (talk) 19:16, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A list of all disciplines studied at all universities in the world is certainly finite, but non-trivial to compile. This would involve navigating to each university's website and noting the academic subjects of each of their course offerings. (What is an "academic subject" and what is merely a course title poses a methodological problem.) A quicker and rougher estimate could be got by finding every published academic journal and tallying the subjects they will publish papers about.
At the edges, the question is unanswerable, because the boundary between "academic discipline" and "research topic" is not well defined. Folly Mox (talk) 14:20, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
FYI: "effectively infinite" does not mean literally infinite, merely beyond reasonable counting. It's a standard English colloquialism. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is indeed. Apologies for the pedantry. I think a team of a dozen or so could get a pretty good count in under a year of research. Folly Mox (talk) 14:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But can they agree within a year on a workable criterion for when a research topic should be counted, for the purpose of their mission, as a separate academic discipline instead of being subsumed within a larger area of study?  --Lambiam 06:30, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Probably not if they're anything like us; good point. Maybe it should be one person counting for a decade instead. Folly Mox (talk) 13:03, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You can also look at legal documents. For example, an ordinance of the Polish Minister of Science gives a complete lists of sciences, which goes as follows:

  1. Humanities
  2. Technology
  3. Medical and Health Sciences
  4. Family Studies
  5. Agricultural Sciences
  6. Social Sciences
  7. Exact and Natural Sciences
  8. Theological Sciences
  9. Veterinary Medicine
  10. The Arts

— Kpalion(talk) 17:41, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Automatics? I don't think he meant what you've wikilinked. -- Verbarson  talkedits 20:48, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Possibly Cybernetics or something allied? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.205.111.170 (talk) 00:52, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Automation?  --Lambiam 06:20, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, I didn't verify that link. I piped it to Control engineering now. — Kpalion(talk) 09:56, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Taking "Polish studies" to be a legitimate academic topic, "X studies" should also be legitimate, where "X" can be replaced by any of hundreds of ethnicities.  --Lambiam 06:19, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And complete? Critical race theory is missing – and so are all interdisciplinary academic fields.  --Lambiam 06:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The "complete" part was tongue in cheek. The list was published by a government ministry, so it reflects a specific political agenda (conservative, in this case); that's why you'll find family studies there, but no gender studies, for example. As for Polish studies, it's really just a subset of literary studies. — Kpalion(talk) 09:56, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And any studies of race, under this scheme, would be probably part of either biology or cultural anthropology. — Kpalion(talk) 10:02, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Queen's Service Academy, Dublin

According to our articles both Elliott O'Donnell and Thomas Westropp Bennett were educated at the Queen's Service Academy, Dublin. I would be interested to know more about the Academy, thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 03:02, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

QUEEN'S SERVICE ACADEMY, Ely-place, St. Stephen's-green, Dublin. - Founded 1852, for preparation of Candidates for Competitive Examinations; over 1,000 Pupils have passed direct from the Academy. The Special Classes for R.I, CONSTABULARY Cadetships have carried off 50 per cent. of the cadetships offered for competition last year... (the rest of the text is illegible)
The Academy: A Weekly Review of Literature, Science and Art, January - June 1881 (p. 252). Alansplodge (talk) 12:50, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
QUEEN'S SERVICE ACADEMY, 3. ELY-PLACE, DUBLIN. Established 1852. - 1,000 Pupils successful. A SPECIAL CLASS for the Solicitors' Preliminary Examination. During this and last year all the pupils, without exception, sent in from this class were successful. Apply to W. J. CHETWODE CRAWLEY...
The Irish Law Times and Solicitors' Journal, Volume 12 January 12, 1878 (p. 29)
Dr William John Chetwode Crawley was apparently a panjandrum in the world of Irish Freemasonry. [1] [2] [3] Alansplodge (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What was the Reverend Henry O'Donnell doing in Abyssinia?

The Reverend Henry O'Donnell was the father of Elliott O'Donnell, the celebrated writer. He met, it seems, a sticky end in Abyssinia. Do we know why he went there, or anything more than the brief details in our article on his son? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 03:07, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As I have already stated, my father’s vocation was that of a clergyman of the Church of England, and it was while awaiting preferment from one living to another that he decided to go for a trip with a clergyman friend to Palestine. The two travelled together as far as Alexandria, but there they parted, my father suddenly deciding to go to Abyssinia with a member of a well-known London banker's family, whom he had met on the voyage out.

— O'Donnell E. (1969). "The Cry of the Banshee". In Ludlam H. (ed.). Elliott o'donnell's casebook of ghosts. pp. 31–2.

He left home with the intention of going on a brief visit to Palestine, but, meeting on the way an exofficer of the Anglo-Indian army, who had been engaged by the King of Abyssinia to help in the work of remodelling the Abyssinian army, he abandoned his idea of visiting the Holy Land, and decided to go to Abyssinia instead. What actually happened then will probably never be known. His death was reported to have taken place at Arkiko, a small village some two hours walking distance from Massowah, and from the letters^ subsequently received from the French Consul at Massowah and several other people, as well as from the entries in his, diary (the latter being recovered with other of his personal effects and sent home with them), there seems to have been little, if any, doubt that he was trapped and murdered, the object being robbery.
The case created quite a sensation at the time, and is referred to in a work entitled " The Oriental Zig-zag," by Charles Hamilton, who, I believe, stayed some few years later at the house at Massowah, where my father lodged, and was stated to have shared his fate.

— O'Donnell E. (1920). "My Own Experiences". The Banshee. pp. 233–4.
Here's the brief mention in Oriental Zigzag[4]
"The Late Rev. H. O'Donnell". Berrow's Worcester Journal. May 31, 1873. p. 3.
O'Donnell E. (October 1899). "Cases". Journal of the Society for Psychical Research.

Yinhua Fund Management ( 银华基金)

Im interested in doing an article on this fund management company in China. Its quite large in terms of assets under management. However there don't seem to be any good sources I can use for details on it. I think there are better sources in Chinese so I am reaching out to any Chinese speakers who might have sources on this company that can be used. - Imcdc Contact 13:44, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notified: WikiProject China. Folly Mox (talk) 14:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

December 21

Italo-German protocol of 23 October 1936 Citation

Hi all, I've been doing research about Spanish civil war and the Nazi's involvement and was looking into the Italo-German protocol of 23 October 1936 but when I was looking for the citation for the text of the protocol which is reference 4. I couldn't find the original source, though I found a NYT article which was paywalled and I'm unsure if it has the correct info. I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers in finding this citation. I'm not sure if this is relevant but I'm not a US citizen so I'm unsure if I can access the US gov. printing office easily.

The citation is this

"Documents on German Foreign Policy 1918–1945, Series C (1933–1937), The Third Reich: First Phase, Volume V (March 5–October 31, 1936) (Washington, DC: Government Printing Office, 1966), pp. 1136–1140, s.v. no. 624 ("German-Italian Protocol")."

Thanks in advances for all who help out

Wren (talk) 11:40, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@WrenderBender: The volume is available to borrow on Archive.org (you'll need a free account). Volume and Page DuncanHill (talk) 12:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much! Wren (talk) 01:44, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

insurrection

I hear that the supreme court of Colorado has declared Donald Trump ineligible for federal office under the Fourteenth Amendment, as having participated in insurrection after swearing to uphold the Constitution. An objection has been raised that he was never formally convicted of insurrection. But was anyone prosecuted for the actions for which that clause was written? —Tamfang (talk) 18:17, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you follow the link to Insurrection Clause, it claims [a]fter the amendment's adoption in 1868, disqualification was seldom enforced in the South. It doesn't seem to give any examples where it was enforced, so assuming there were some, we'd have to find those first. The only unequivocal example I see of the clause actually being directly enforced was against Victor L. Berger in 1919 and 1920, and he was in fact convicted of violating the Espionage Act. --Trovatore (talk) 19:59, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A few years later the Supreme Court overturned the verdict against Berger, after which he was again re-elected and served several more years.  --Lambiam 20:19, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But the relevant point here is that the conviction, though later overturned, was considered valid at the time he was disqualified, so Berger is not an example of the clause being enforced without a conviction (much less without a prosecution).
That's not to say there aren't any such examples. I would be interested to know.` --Trovatore (talk) 20:41, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The original question was, "was anyone prosecuted for the actions for which [the disqualification clause] was written?" I assume such actions to be: engaging in insurrection or rebellion against the US Constitution after having taken an oath, in an official capacity, to support this Constitution. This is the question I meant to address. Then Berger is an example: before being convicted he was prosecuted. If an impeachment trial counts as prosecution, Judge West Hughes Humphreys is another example. He was banned for life from holding office after having been impeached and, after a trial, convicted by the House of Representatives.
It is an interesting and in the present situation highly relevant question whether there are examples of people who were disqualified from holding office for violating their oath without a prior conviction, but it is a different question.  --Lambiam 23:13, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect "the actions for which that clause was written" refers specifically to supporting the Confederacy after previously taking an oath yada yada yada. So Humphreys seems like a much better example, although the conviction in question was not a criminal one.
(One could wish the drafters of the clause had been a little clearer about exactly who was supposed to determine whether the conditions of the clause were satisfied. But in the case of ex-Confederates I suppose it was pretty clear.) --Trovatore (talk) 23:43, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The explanation in CREW's list has No one who has been formally disqualified under Section 3 was charged under the criminal “rebellion or insurrection” statute (18 U.S.C. § 2383) or its predecessors. fiveby(zero) 00:01, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Case Closed: Countdown to Heaven

The gangster movie Haibara watches in the cinema, in which a gangster uses a M1928 Thompson submachine gun to shoot out of a car with "927-215" as license plate number, the same for one of his men in 1987 The Untouchables, is about Al Capone's gang. Can you search if exist in some Al Capone's film or TV series a scene where a man betrayed the gang and was killed by them while escaping along with his beloved younger sister? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.20.65.231 (talk) 21:39, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese

Please, can you help me with a translation from Japanese in this image? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.54.216.75 (talk) 11:51, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Google Lens gives me the following:
Ichijo Yoshinari
■ Yoshinari Ichijo (Taro Yamada)
Son of Ichijo, the Minister of Finance, Nagashinari, and Tokiwa. While Nagari and his wife were fleeing to Nara after being chased by Yoshinaka Kiso, Saburo Ise arranged for them to join Yoshitsune's army. After the Battle of Ichinotani, he was appointed as a chamberlain because he was Yoshitsune's brother-in-law, and he took care of his parents.
■Utsubo (Kyoko Mikage)
Daughter of Jiro Masakiyo Kamata, a servant of Minamoto no Yoshitomo. From the age of 2, she was raised by Ojishichiroji from Kurama Village. Ushiwaka and I are childhood friends who trust each other. After Shichiroji's death, he follows Yoshitsune to Hiraizumi.
AndrewWTaylor (talk) 12:38, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, but that of Utsubo is not complete. 79.54.216.75 (talk) 12:41, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that - I've added the missing text. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 15:30, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

December 22

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&oldid=1191276552"