This is the current revision of this page, as edited by Cewbot(talk | contribs) at 18:58, 23 February 2024(Maintain {{WPBS}}: 6 WikiProject templates. Keep majority rating "Start" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 6 same ratings as {{WPBS}} in {{WikiProject Women}}, {{WikiProject Biography}}, {{WikiProject Israel}}, {{WikiProject Jewish Women}}, {{WikiProject Jewish history}}, {{WikiProject Women writers}}.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this version.
Revision as of 18:58, 23 February 2024 by Cewbot(talk | contribs)(Maintain {{WPBS}}: 6 WikiProject templates. Keep majority rating "Start" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 6 same ratings as {{WPBS}} in {{WikiProject Women}}, {{WikiProject Biography}}, {{WikiProject Israel}}, {{WikiProject Jewish Women}}, {{WikiProject Jewish history}}, {{WikiProject Women writers}}.)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish Women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish WomenWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish WomenTemplate:WikiProject Jewish WomenJewish Women articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
Dina Porat expressed controversial idea that Jewish Nazi collaborators should be at least partially absolved and not unequivocally condemned together with all other Nazi collaborators (i.e. opinion expressed by Polish PM), as they betrayed or turned in other Jews to Germans being threatened with death if they didn't <ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.timesofisrael.com/scholars-polish-pm-distorts-history-by-saying-jews-participated-in-holocaust/|title=Scholars: Polish PM distorts history by saying Jews participated in Holocaust|access-date=2019-05-17|language=en-US}}</ref>.
However, other historians claim that some of Nazi Jewish collaborators went as long as to identify themselves closely with their Nazi masters <ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.timesofisrael.com/king-chaim-ruler-of-the-lodz-ghetto-exposed-in-boston-exhibit/|title= King Chaim ruler of the lodz ghetto exposed in boston exhibit|access-date=2019-05-17|language=en-US}}</ref>.
Although Porat did express a view on this topic when questioned by a newspaper reporter, it's unclear that this is a particular "controversy" related to Porat; this is quite clearly a WP:UNDUE problem. Moveoever, she certainly did not say that they should be "partially absolved" etc.; rather she said, to quote the newspaper, that
comparing them to Polish collaborators “is morally and historically false also because of the complex spectrum of collaboration,” Porat said. This complexity does not apply to Polish collaborators, few of whom were threatened with death if they did not betray or turn in Jews.
“The indictment against all of those collaborators may appear similar,” Porat said, “but the context in which they acted is radically different.”
For me it is partial absolution based on the fact that they did evil acts under threat of death. If you understand her words differently, please explain to me.
The main problem that she deviates from individual responsibility, because threat of death or alleged lack of it, is based on group membership. Jewish individual might not face imminent death threat and also he may not perceive it this way. Opposite is true for non-Jewish collaborator, who could be motivated by perceived death threat.
What needs to be underlined, she voice her opinion over moral issues, even if she is historian.
Please do not remove, try to find the best version.
I understand your concern, but you haven't addressed any of the policy issues I've raised above. You've put your own interpretation on her words, which is WP:NOR, and you've highlighted one statement she made when asked a question in a newspaper article; where is the secondary source indicating that this is some sort of controversy? Again, WP:NOR and WP:UNDUE. This is a WP:BLP, so we must edit cautiously. That means we immediately remove to discuss, and only include when there is agreement. Don't restore this to the article until agreement is reached, or I will have to take much more serious action. Jayjg(talk)12:57, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and the statement you keep adding at the bottom of that section "It is interesting to note that Head Historian of Yad Vashem is answering moral questions, the role usually reserved for priests of organised religions." -is pure unsourced original research, your own opinions about her statements. I am astounded you would even think you could add that. Jayjg(talk)13:00, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, of course I removed the content. You don't seem to understand how serious WP:BLP is. Because it is negative original research and WP:UNDUE, it cannot be "formulated better". Bring better and different sources, but don't restore before agreement. Jayjg(talk)16:17, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
.png){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}