Jump to content

Talk:2024 Varzaqan helicopter crash

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 37.252.94.207 (talk) at 05:52, 21 May 2024 (→Move: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Requested move 19 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW. (closed by non-admin page mover) Queen of Hearts (talk) 20:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Varzaqan helicopter crash → 2024 Iranian leadership helicopter crash – Similar to 2023 Wagner Group plane crash. The current title really undersells the significance of this event. Bremps... 15:41, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now. Wait a little while I think. Sadustu Tau (talk) 17:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Disaster management, WikiProject Iran, and WikiProject Aviation have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 19:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Succession

Isn't discussing a succession too WP:CRYSTALBALL??? Borgenland (talk) 18:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

not necesserly because there if facts about it, it's enshrined in the iranian constution article 131
look on president of iran on "inability of the president" Anticonstitutionnelist (talk) 23:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No indication of Israeli involvement

There is no indication of Israeli intelligence involvement at this time. The source cited doesn't mention anything about it either. Edit: The part mentioning that seems to have been removed from this page. 82.2.41.189 (talk) 18:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Wayback archive URL is currently invalid. Leaving aside that WP:DAILYMIRROR is a tabloid and a no consensus source, in the source I don't see anything about Israeli intelligence being involved in the crash either. This was the edit that introduced the claim. Boud (talk) 19:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any objections to removing the Arab-Israeli contentious topic warning?

We currently have {{Contentious topics/talk notice|topic=a-i}} on this talk page, but there is so far only speculation about Arab-Israeli involvement. We don't have any warning about the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict, even though the event happened near the Azerbaijan border, and we don't have any warning about post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, even though Iran is under US sanctions and US-Iran relations come up often in post-1992 US political discussions.

Any objections to removing this particular template (topic=a-i) from this talk page? Boud (talk) 19:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, we should really wait before at all relating the crash to Israel or anything to do with the conflict, as right now it is entirely speculation. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 19:11, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies I forgot to remove it when I was trying to find a related article. Borgenland (talk) 20:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe link Kobe Bryant helicopter crash to Iran? 2600:1017:B8C2:648A:551:3330:2A7D:334C (talk) 00:59, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
what? Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 02:39, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No objection, I was thinking the same thing myself. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 19:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Boud (talk) 20:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The helicopter

Some sources say the involved helicopter was a Bell 212, not 412 which is usually used in official Iranian President travels. Aminabzz (talk) 19:53, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

which sources? Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 19:55, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/19/iran-helicopter-accident-live-president-fm-on-missing-aircraft?update=2910784. Borgenland (talk) 20:00, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I was going to say that from the photos in the article it looks like a 212 (just 2 blades on the rotor), but was hesitant to change just on the basis of my visual impression.
Now that we have a source saying that, I think we should change it. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 20:05, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we should. Rynoip (talk) 21:36, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I already did :) Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 21:53, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nice. Rynoip (talk) 23:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
nevermind its still 212 for some reason ill try to change it Rynoip (talk) 23:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But it is actually a 212... Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 23:43, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is? i thought the topic was about it being a 412 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/19/iran-helicopter-accident-live-president-fm-on-missing-aircraft?update=2910784 Rynoip (talk) 23:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, no, sorry for the confusion, the article originally said it was a 412, but it is actually a 212. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 02:37, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the picture is probably not from the crashed one 172.59.212.22 (talk) 03:46, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Iran is not listed under oparaters in the Wikipedia page of the Bell 412 but it is listed on the Bell 212 page so I think it's very clear that it was a 212 172.59.212.22 (talk) 04:26, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, thanks for the clarifictaion Rynoip (talk) 21:39, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Were there any signs of the helicopter having been sabotaged?195.244.210.117 (talk) 06:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am bringing up the issue of the photo of the helicopter in the infobox. I was surprised that Wikipedia had such a closeup, free-to-use photo, and I exposed here why this photo may not be depicting the President's crashed helicopter: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File_talk%3AIranian_presidential_helicopter_crashed_2024.jpg#Issues_with_this_photo --Inotodo (talk) 07:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

== What was the call sign of the aircraft and the designation of the flight? Air transports of heads of state and government has "IRAN02". kencf0618 (talk) 12:59, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

File:Raisi's helicopter leaving Khudafarin (cropped).jpg

Is this the president's helicopter or a rescue helicopter? The caption on Wikipedia differs from the one on Commons. The image has no source URL to verify. Schierbecker (talk) 20:56, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found the photograph here. It is of the president's helicopter. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to who? Schierbecker (talk) 22:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The source is MEHR, relying on Tabriz. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 22:28, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From MEHR: "Tabriz- The helicopter carrying the president on its way back from Khodafarin to Tabriz fell in poor conditions in the region; the interior minister confirmed the crash announced the dispatch of relief groups to the region." This doesn't verify the caption. Is this the helicopter carrying the president, or another helicopter in the same convoy? Schierbecker (talk) 22:38, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
New York Times photo caption: "In a photo provided by Islamic Republic News Agency, the helicopter carrying Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi took off at the Iranian border with Azerbaijan". -- GreenC 22:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That photo comes from the Islamic Republic News Agency and from a different photographer. Schierbecker (talk) 23:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is the same helicopter. The photographs have different angles. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There were three helicopters involved in the convoy. How do you know? Schierbecker (talk) 06:06, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Khamenei quote

Khamenei's quote is mistranslated. He said to the people that "[They] don't need to be worried or anxious as administration of country will not be disrupted at all" Source Jondoeburner (talk) 21:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Source is english.khamenei.ir/). Thanks. That makes much more sense. Moscow Mule (talk) 00:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Türkiye sent Akıncı drone to support search and rescue efforts

I think this is an important topic that should be included in the article. Source Tahriqedicii (talk) 23:41, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's included Waleed (talk) 00:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Varzaqan helicopter crash?

As we can see, the year isn't needed here and I doubt any sources there use it. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, the crashes constantly indicate the year as well as location Waleed (talk) 04:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

how long till he's no longer President?

How long can he be missing until power is given to the next in the line of succession? 2602:306:BC74:6240:948:979E:186E:2296 (talk) 00:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As with who's next, when he "takes power" is decided by the Supreme Leader, whenever he wants. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Location found by the Akinci drone

Possible location at Tavil/Tawil per AJE live blog - "The official said the location is in an area called Tavil. Iran's Press TV also reported that rescue forces are heading towards the spot." The slopes are clearly steep - a gradient of something like 1 in 2, i.e. 27 degrees. Not yet usable, but there should be proper sources soon. Boud (talk) 01:39, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

should we move the article since crash site location updated?

should we move the page to something like "2024 Jolfa helicopter crash" since [1] reported a updated location? Haers6120 (talk) 02:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be ok with that, but it probably requires a move request, seeing as the previous move was contested. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 02:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
in the video shown here the coordinates are N 38 46 21 E 46 43 24 Schrauber5 (talk) 03:19, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to Cedarnews the site is N 38 47 10 E 46 42 56 which is 2km away Schrauber5 (talk) 04:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to this image from a Turkish drone finding a hotspot, the coords are 38° 46′ 04″ N, 46° 41′ 33″ E near the village of Tavil, East Azerbaijan. I have made it so the article displays the coordinates from Wikidata so there won't have to be edit conflicts. If anyone wants to adjust the coords, please do so on Wikidata. Abductive (reasoning) 09:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The videos from the Turkish drone do NOT match the videos of the actual crash site (terrain, actual crash location is NOT on a top of a ridge). Seems Bayraktar was searching in the wrong location - they likely mistook the camp fire of a freezing rescue team. Maybe they did not release the video with the correct hotspot - or maybe Bayraktar wasn't even involved in finding the crash site (despite Turkish claims). At least the current location from the Bayraktar hotspot (38° 46′ 04″ N, 46° 41′ 33″ E) is not correct. MrHRFloyd (talk) 11:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have adjusted the coords to 38°44′34″N 46°39′37″E, 2 km SW of Uzi. Make any change as you see fit on Wikidata here. Abductive (reasoning) 11:19, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Foreign reactions

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/reactions-crash-iranian-presidents-helicopter-2024-05-19/

dropping this here since I can't edit Readingpro256 talk to me contribs 02:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah we've already used this source Waleed (talk) 15:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No Survivors

CNN is reporting that "No survivors" were found at the crash site. They are citing both IRINN and Mehr News. https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/raisi-iran-president-helicopter-crash/h_84e1c9ad10338418fd5540d8f7723cc6

  • Brother you just added a new section instead of adding a topic, moreover I think that this should be added.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024

(Under "Crash" section) change awkwardly phrased "Giz Galasi event" to "inauguration of the complex", which would also connect better with the preceding "Background" section. Td 078 (talk) 03:27, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Text mentioning continuity with vice president has been deleted

There was a line but it has been deleted that Mokhber is now president for 6 month Baratiiman (talk) 03:58, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[2]https://www.shora-gc.ir/en/news/87/constitution-of-the-islamic-republic-of-iran-full-text
Article 131 stated he first deputy of the President, is obliged to arrange for a new President to be elected within a maximum period of fifty days not 6 month 78.39.140.179 (talk) 09:11, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Russia sent 47 people two planes and a chopper

https://www.khabaronline.ir/amp/1908840/ Baratiiman (talk) 04:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done Waleed (talk) 00:27, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 (2)

Well-wishes and offers of support came from Prime Minister of India Narendra Modi, Prime Minister of Pakistan Shehbaz Sharif, President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, and the foreign ministries of Afghanistan, China, Kuwait, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar.

Adding China to the list of foreign ministeries at the end of the International section. [1] EZJC (talk) 04:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please add Australia as well.
https://www.aap.com.au/news/pm-waits-for-news-on-crash-search-for-iranian-president/ Amoresmore (talk) 07:51, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Added Aussie reaction Waleed (talk) 16:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://aje.io/2sog0w?update=2912600

Main picture is wrong

On the picture is not a helicopter but a plane and it is a different accident - پیدا شدن لاشه هواپیمای سقوط کرده در مازندران (tinn.ir) 85.163.239.53 (talk) 07:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming you're referring to File:Ebrahim Raisi helicopter crash site 19 May 2024.jpg, it shows the tail and horizontal stabilisers of a Bell 212. MIDI (talk) 13:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's the correct photo, just taken from above the crash zone. The tail is the only part that survived the fire. Here is the whole crash from above showing the same tail piece:
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/first-visuals-from-iran-presidents-chopper-crash-site-no-survivors-5702595 Pat2dv (talk) 14:06, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.aap.com.au/news/pm-waits-for-news-on-crash-search-for-iranian-president/

Australia prime minister also commented on the search. Amoresmore (talk) 07:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done Waleed (talk) 16:32, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reuters list of reactions

https://www.reuters.com/world/reactions-death-irans-president-helicopter-crash-2024-05-20/

Includes EU, Japan, Sri Lanka, Egypt, etc. 2Links (talk) 08:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The current listing on wikipedia seems to suggest that only Muslim countries and India cared about the search and death, which is a very odd and skewed view of the real situation. I suggest it needs to be written in the order of deliverance, alphabetically or geographically. Amoresmore (talk) 08:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Although those were the first reported, section definitely needs expanding now that there are reactions from others. Prefer organizing geographically as in other articles. 2Links (talk) 08:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flag salad "Reactions" section

As many of you know, most editors despise list-formatted "Reactions" sections, especially the flag icons. These sections should be converted into prose—not a bulleted (flagged) list. Sourcing should not be primary, such as tweets, and should have encyclopedic value. A politician giving his/her condolences does not have much, if any, encyclopedic value, and each certainly does not need its own sentence or paragraph. Abductive (reasoning) 09:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even if we don't make a list, shouldn’t we write who from which state or just wich countries sent condolences? Zeeshan Y Tariq (talk) 09:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, little to add to what you've said. The flags add little more than prettiness (not a good enough rationale), and the quotes add nothing but a show of support, kind words, or sympathy (not a good enough rationale). I have no real objection to mentioning which countries/organisations/etc. that have made statements (provided it's prose AND isn't so many that it gets out of hand), but WP:QUOTEFARM and WP:LISTDD should guide us in this instance. MIDI (talk) 09:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the first paragraph needs to be removed as it is virtually all primary source too. Amoresmore (talk) 09:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Xxx2023 please respond here before making unilateral moves. Your actions are no longer opposed by a solo editor. Borgenland (talk) 09:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Flags are being used to inmprove visibilty, in which reader can easily find how each country reacted to the incident. A list is the best method to present several inputs so I do not see any issue in sorting the info in such manner. Xxx2023 (talk) 09:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But does every country's reaction follow WP:UNDUE guidelines though? Wikipedia is not a dumping ground for each country's reaction. Borgenland (talk) 09:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd give leeway for official mourning abroad. As for the flag soup, it is clear that some editors have failed to read WP:UNDUE, not to mention the tons of copyvio, commentary and WP:QUOTEFARMs that I have had to clean up. Borgenland (talk) 09:41, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are lots of articles which have a separate page regarding reaction to that certain event. Does this incident Chris Rock–Will Smith slapping incident deserve a so-called "encyclopedic" article! Let's see how most users would argue to figure out the final outcome. Xxx2023 (talk) 09:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The current paragraph without the flags gives undue weight to Muslim countries and India.
Why is India included considering its geopolitical relations are very minor? It's not even part of the Iranian axis.
Where is China? Why has the EU not been mentioned despite being involved according to other text? Amoresmore (talk) 09:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My only concern was that you would remove all content related to the sections. To be honest the latest version looks decent! Xxx2023 (talk) 09:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problems with these 'reaction' sections is that in every case where world leader is killed, or dies, at some point all 195 countries, and innumerable 'international organisations' will have something to say about it; I think it's better to wait for an independent source to make a 'reaction to the accident' article, rather than relying on primary sources. JeffUK 10:15, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the section should be removed and replaced with an aftermath section. Reactions are only required if they have a meaningful impact on humanity. Amoresmore (talk) 11:27, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please add to "REACTIONS" section - Polish President Andrzej Duda (https://x.com/AndrzejDuda/status/1792468887923028454). Thanks Paawlus (talk) 13:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've just closed the "#government reaction paragraph should be turned into a bulletpoint list" discussion below as a duplicate of this topic to ensure we centralise discussion. The gist there is that the section should be turned into a bulleted list because it's (too) big – I would suggest that this is a sign the section is too large rather than needing change of format. Listing every country or head of state who has said something is not of benefit to the reader (and goes against my comment above of "I have no real objection [provided that it] isn't so many that it gets out of hand"). WP:REACTIONS#Problems sums up what's going on here. MIDI (talk) 19:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Casualties

Per [[3]], I can only count eight people (5 passengers and 3 crew). Who was victim no. 9??? Borgenland (talk) Borgenland (talk) 10:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article adds 'A bodyguard' not listed on the Al Jazeera link. [4] - Raisa, Amir-Abdollahian, Ale-Hashem, Malek Rahmati, Raisi’s head of security, a bodyguard, 3 Flight crew. Makes 9, but I've changed it up a bit, so the lead sentence makes it clearer everyone died, then we list who was onboard. JeffUK 10:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
AP now reported it as 8. Borgenland (talk) 10:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Precise location (coords)

Our article states "The helicopter's exact location and condition have not been disclosed" and provides a citation. We also have coords in use for the crash site – either the coords fail WP:V, or the earlier quote is outdated. Which is it? MIDI (talk) 10:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That earlier quote was there more than 24 hours ago. In light of this, I think it should go. Borgenland (talk) 10:41, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The source is the image in this Turkish article. Abductive (reasoning) 10:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The morning crew at the BBC finally rubbed the sleep out of their eyes and found it. I have adjusted accordingly. Abductive (reasoning) 11:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Initial survivor

Ayatollah al-Hashem survived long enough to speak on the phone at least twice and update the authorities on his condition, before dying at some point before the responders arrived. Should this be reflected on the list of survivors as "0 (initially 1)" and the fatalities as 8 (initially 7)"? Varavour (talk) 15:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I mean I don't think so that this needs to be pointed in infobox, like any other incident, only the final number of fatalities is given even if some die of wounds later on. Waleed (talk) 15:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A better source would still be needed though, per WP:TASS. Borgenland (talk) 15:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this was a rumour that was later proved wrong. The scene of the accident leaves no doubt that pretty much everyone died on impact and then the helicopter burned out. If he would have survived long enough to make that call he would have probably given more correct information on the seriousness of the crash, and likely would had left the wreck before it burned out. It's also impossible that he would had heard ambulances coming because they weren't anywhere nearby by then. It took the rescuers more than 12 hours after the crash to reach the place.
Honestly, I think someone made that up to try to calm down the rumours about the accident. A lot of early info proved to be wrong when they found the wreck: this wasn't a "hard landing", it literally crashed against the side of the mountain and burst into flames. They were likely all dead within max 10-15 minutes after the crash. Anyone who didn't die during impact was burned to death only minutes later. Pat2dv (talk) 17:37, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 (3)

Would suggest the inclusion of alleged suspicion and accusation of Israel and America in to the crash.(sources: 1. https://www.business-standard.com/external-affairs-defence-security/news/why-president-ebrahim-raisi-s-death-comes-at-a-sensitive-time-for-iran-124052001331_1.html 2. https://www.livemint.com/news/world/ebrahim-raisi-assassinated-many-suspect-israels-role-behind-iran-presidents-death-officials-clarify-11716202227544.html 3. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/could-israel-be-behind-the-crash-of-iranian-president-ebrahim-raisis-helicopter/articleshow/110261625.cms 4. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/iran-president-raisi-helicopter-crash-like-a-netflix-thriller-raisis-death-revives-talk-of-mossads-free-run-in-iran-did-israel-kill-iran-president/articleshow/110268901.cms?from=mdr 5. https://vinnews.com/2024/05/20/israel-denies-involvement-in-raisis-death-iran-blames-us-for-preventing-spare-aviation-parts/)

IndianSainik (talk) 15:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli alleged involvement is mentioned in the reaction section and alleged American involvement in aftermath section Waleed (talk) 16:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No need to push speculative matters further than what is already mentioned. Borgenland (talk) 16:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was just mentioning it, all good and that's it. Thanks for the mention, though. IndianSainik (talk) 19:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah but what I had to do with that Waleed (talk) 00:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, sorry I didn't noticed that. Thank you for pointing out. IndianSainik (talk) 19:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

government reaction paragraph should be turned into a bulletpoint list

CLOSED
Editors are already discussing this at #Flag salad "Reactions" section; there's no reason to duplicate topics here. MIDI (talk) 18:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

it lists about two dozen people and honestly we should either cut it down or bulletpoint it NotQualified (talk) 17:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I agree it's getting too lengthy now. Sadustu Tau (talk) 18:44, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Age of the helicopter

The article says:

The helicopter involved, MSN 35071, registered as 6-9221, first flew around the late 1960s. The aircraft was said to be around 40 to 50 years old.

This makes no sense. The last year of the late 1960s was 1969, meaning that the helicopter was at least 2024 − 1969 = 55 years old. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 19:39, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reading the sources, I am fairly confident that the Reuters article means that the Bell 212 model helicopter was first developed in the late 1960s, but this specific helicopter it may be 40 to 50 years old.
I do think this section is misleading in its phrasing, as the Reuters article says "Experts said the few details available suggested it may be 40 to 50 years old.", which seems to be less certain than the phrase "The aircraft was said to be around 40 to 50 years old." I would support a complete rewriting of this section. Lunsel (talk) 19:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I concur with your interpretation of the source (https://aviation-safety.net/ appearing not to mention any dates). The previous wording implied two different ages of this specific unit, rather than an introductory date of the model and then the age of the specific airframe involved. MIDI (talk) 19:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll propose the following wording to see if there's a consensus:
The helicopter involved was a Bell 212 model, which was initially designed by Bell Helicopter in the late 1960s, and introduced in 1971. This specific helicopter, with MSN 35071 and registered as 6-9221, is currently believed to be 40-50 years old, given the current available information. Lunsel (talk) 20:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. But someone has already changed it. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 20:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you can add the bit about when the model was designed and introduced. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 20:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the "someone" who already changed it may have been me before I commented above :). Comments on Lunsel's proposed wording: "initially", "currently", and "given the current available information" needn't be included. Bell 212 should be linked. Reworded proposal:
The helicopter involved was a Bell 212, which was designed by Bell Helicopter in the late 1960s and introduced in 1971. The airframe had the serial 35071 and was registered as 6-9221, and is believed to be 40-50 years old.
MIDI (talk) 20:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great. I like this. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 21:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am okay with this, thank you! Lunsel (talk) 22:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is this now. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:08, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 (4)

Skyfrostt (talk) 20:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done – No specific request provided. MIDI (talk) 21:03, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed deaths discrepancy

The crash section cites Yahoo News saying 9 were killed in the crash, but the infobox cites AP News listing the number of deaths as 8. Whichever one is wrong should be altered, if that is known. I don't have permission. JorikThePooh (talk) 21:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the correct number is 9 as it includes a body guard but it is already being discussed in another section Waleed (talk) 00:33, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some videos of the wreckage

I've found these videos [5] [6] in the Mehr News Agency website but I'd like to confirm if they are available under a free license before uploading them. Any thoughts? Basque mapping (talk) 21:58, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 20 May 2024

Since we have confirmation of the deaths of the passengers and crew on board, this can be classified as an accident. Change the Infobox to say “Accident” from “Occurrence.” 2603:8000:CD01:B7F0:D80C:7B8B:A5D7:91B4 (talk) 00:24, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Thank you Kiwiz1338 (talk) 03:22, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Move

The following "Raisi was the second president of Iran to have died in office, following Mohammad-Ali Rajai, who was killed in a bombing in 1981." Is in aftermath, it should be in background. Not relevant here.37.252.94.207 (talk) 05:52, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:2024_Varzaqan_helicopter_crash&oldid=1224906500"