Talk:Sudanese civil war (2023–present)
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Map update
the map needs to be updated to show the Wad Madani offensive
i would do it but im lazy Lukt64 (talk) 00:16, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- I haven't seen any major updates from Sudan War Monitor in Gezira state, including the counteroffensive to retake Wad Madani. I think the current map is still fine. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 14:56, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- I would second what JohnAdams1800 stated. Has there been any significant changes which would justify updating the map showing significant changes in the offensive? Jurisdicta (talk) 01:59, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- I don't believe so. There is reportedly an RSF offensive in Al-Fashir (El Fasher) in North Darfur, but I haven't read of any major changes in territorial control. The SAF has gained control of Omdurman, but has not taken back control of Gezira state or the capital city of Khartoum. Similarly, the RSF has not appeared to take significant amounts of territory in recent months. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 14:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- I would second what JohnAdams1800 stated. Has there been any significant changes which would justify updating the map showing significant changes in the offensive? Jurisdicta (talk) 01:59, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Requested move 18 May 2024
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) —Compassionate727 (T·C) 21:27, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
War in Sudan (2023–present) → Sudanese civil war (2023–present) – The conflict is a civil war and this has become the most common name used, sources are such as Sky News: [1] (It’s in the title.) BBC News: [2] “… of the year-long Sudanese civil war” Independent: [3] “… during a year-long civil war“ CNN: [4] “Sudan has been gripped by civil war since April 2023”. 78.170.144.248 (talk) 14:04, 18 May 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). 78.170.144.248 (talk) 15:25, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- I agree! MasterOpel 21:29, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Plus, the article states, "A civil war between two rival factions of the military government of Sudan, the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) under Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, and the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces (RSF) under the Janjaweed leader, Hemedti, began during Ramadan on 15 April 2023." MasterOpel 21:31, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- The Article names the war as a civil war numerous times, and I believe the rename is an accurate description of the war, and it also shares the perspective that the article seems to have. 67.60.68.232 (talk) 22:21, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Plus, the article states, "A civil war between two rival factions of the military government of Sudan, the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) under Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, and the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces (RSF) under the Janjaweed leader, Hemedti, began during Ramadan on 15 April 2023." MasterOpel 21:31, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
- Modified support for Third Sudanese Civil War (2023-present), as Sudanese Civil War is a disambiguation page that already mentions the First Sudanese Civil War and Second Sudanese Civil War. This armed conflict is a civil war, but it's the third major one in a country that has been repeatedly characterized by internal conflict. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 21:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- The first and second civil wars are actually named that in multiple reliable sources, so no need for the word “Third” if it’s not mentioned in sources. We can move the dab page to Sudanese Civil Wars or Sudanese Civil War (disambiguation) FuzzyMagma (talk) 22:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- This is truly a third sudanese civil war. However, we need to use the most common name when referring to wikipedia’s policies, no source seems to give this conflict the historical name “third sudanese civil war”. Therefore it wouldn’t be valid to move it to that, rather we should move it to Sudanese civil war (2023–present). 78.170.144.248 (talk) 05:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- good call FuzzyMagma (talk) 19:18, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Strong support: There is no doubt it's a civil war and the current title isn't all that encompassing about the reality Waleed (talk) 07:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support as now multiple sources are calling it a civil war. Lukt64 (talk) 18:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support but would hold off on placing numerologies pending an actual source that describes it. Borgenland (talk) 05:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support
The war has been going on for a year now, and many sources are now calling it a civil war. [1] [2] [3] [4]
BigRed606 (talk) 08:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not opposed if it lends clarity, but worth noting that the sources given above use civil war as a description, rather than as a specific name for this event. CMD (talk) 15:00, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support. "War in X" is typically used here for interstate wars (see War in Afghanistan (2001-2021), War in Donbas, and War in Somalia (2006-2009)). War in Darfur and War in the Vendée are the only pages that seem to deal with civil wars (although War in Abkhazia (1992-1993) could be argued to also be one). At any rate, "War in X" makes more sense when describing the geographical location of the war. Ships & Space(Edits) 00:51, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support. War in [country] is barely used on Wikipedia, and it is rarely used to refer to a civil war. "Civil War" is far more common. Game2Winter (talk) 19:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support per sources provided above. I would note that most major sources referred to this event as the "war in Sudan" (or some variation, see this discussion) in the months following its outbreak, so it doesn't really matter what Wikipedia named different wars in that instance. Also, oppose Third Sudanese Civil War until proof is provided that sources are calling it such. Yeoutie (talk) 00:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support, though also open to Third Sudanese Civil War Might I ask what the standard is for whether you count something from scratch or number it? Growing up I read it usually had to do with whether or not one directly lead to another, like how the First Balkans War caused the Second One. That's how historians who named things would do it. So this would absolutely count as Third.
I really hope it isn't what the Media specifically is using because the bulk of them suck at getting details right when it comes to African conflicts.
- ^ Hansler, Stephanie Busari, Sarah Dean, Jennifer (2024-04-15). "Sudan on brink of collapse and starvation as country marks one year of civil war". CNN. Retrieved 2024-05-19.
{{cite web}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) - ^ "Four Priorities for Sudan a Year into the Civil War". United States Institute of Peace. Retrieved 2024-05-19.
- ^ "Sudan civil war: 200 settlements hit by fires since start of conflict as scorched earth tactics intensify". Sky News. Retrieved 2024-05-19.
- ^ Nashed, Mat. "Sudan war could lead to more ethnic killings in volatile Darfur region". Al Jazeera. Retrieved 2024-05-19.
- Note: WikiProject International relations has been notified of this discussion. FuzzyMagma (talk) 15:24, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
Analysis
Now that it has been flagged, is that one-man section really worth keeping in the article? There are lots of more concise analysis scattered throughout the article. The current section in question just sounds like borderline personal essay. Borgenland (talk) 17:43, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Not unless other analyses can be found. What's currently there says a whole lot of nothing. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 17:14, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Name issue
The Name is not proper for a Wikipedia article, it should be capitalized, example: Sudanese Civil War (2023-present. Other examples South Sudanese Civil War. Should I request a move to fix it? BigRed606 (talk) 21:08, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- It uses sentence case because it's a descriptive title, not a proper name. Sources haven't settled on a proper name for this war yet. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 22:26, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Requested move 26 May 2024
![]() | It has been proposed in this section that Sudanese civil war (2023–present) be renamed and moved to Third Sudanese Civil War. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}} . Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
Sudanese civil war (2023–present) → Third Sudanese Civil War – This is the third civil war since independence. It should be titled that way to maintain consistency. Interstellarity (talk) 21:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Are there appropriate sources to support this claim? Previous attempts have been shot down as WP:OR. Borgenland (talk) 21:49, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. We don't use made up Wikipedia names for things, and I also find the numbering rather problematic as it can be hard to define what's a civil was and what isn't. Present title is recognizable and good. — Amakuru (talk) 22:23, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Yet again, we dont make up random names on wikipedia. Lukt64 (talk) 00:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Sudan has been in conflict for so long, it is hard to tell which one we're up to (if we're adding the Darfur and South Kordofan conflicts, we'd be up to the fifth one, but even then you could theoretically lump that into its own 'Third' conflict). Shadowboxer2005 (talk) 03:41, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
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