Talk:Tobacco

Information on legality of tobacco use worldwide?

Is tobacco legal to own everywhere? I mean, aside from the bans on smoking in specific locations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.210.192.121 (talk) 04:29, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Nepal (or was it Bhutan?) os the only country in the world where tobacco itself is now illegal. Til Eulenspiegel 05:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Unclear and Unreferenced paragraphs

"Many children have health problems because they are exposed to smoke which their parents produce and inhaling many dangerous substances and poisons like smokers. So we decide to invent a law for resolving this problem. This law consists to forbid to the parents to smoke in presence of them children or babies. The consequence if we don’t respect this law is to pay fines of 300$ the first time and it raises for 300$ at every time. The arguments for and against this law: For: - Smoke exposure causes acute lower respiratory infections such as bronchitis and pneumonia in infants and young children. - Smoke exposure causes respiratory symptoms among school-aged children. - Babies who are exposed to smoke after birth are more likely to die from sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) than babies who are not exposed to cigarette smoke.

Against: -Many parents think that is their responsibility to decide what is good for their children not the one of the government -Some parents think that the smoke isn’t dangerous for their children"

What law is this? Where from? These two paragraphs seem like they're pure speculation/opinion. Actually, I'm deleting them from the health effects section, if someone has a good reason to put the information back in--properly cited--they can do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.210.192.121 (talk) 04:26, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

older entries

The last paragraph is super akward. Someone should go in and correct the syntax and diction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.149.141.168 (talk) 03:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Will other contributors please examine the statements that checkmate15 has reinserted:

"The use of smokeless tobacco in lieu of smoked tobacco does not appear to significantly reduce the risk of developing cancers" and "Significantly shorter life expectancies have also been associated with tobacco usage" (rather than "tobacco smoking")

and read the links checkmate15 re-inserted to support those statements, and the links checkmate15 removed?

Me fix, It good now. Gzuckier 19:05, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

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It appears that the user with the IP of 66.228.197.234 may have a non NPOV with regards to Tobacco in general and especially smokeless tobacco. I suggest an eye be kept out for edits by this user as they may be damaging to the overall integrity of the article. -- checkmate15

We should discuss Nicotine found in other plants such as Eggplant. --Mrtobacco 21:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

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I agree. Why would someone invent a smokeless cigarette? It must be a plot to prevent cancer. But why not just keep it a secret and become the worst killer in history?

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Need to figure out where/when to start breaking out different pages. For instance, "snuff" in the first paragraph has a ? referal to a yet unwritten page, but there's a nice section on snuff in the text of the page. -- saracarl

I agree. You'll also notice that there's an extensive writeup on different types of pipe tobaccos on the smoking pipe page linked from the article.

However, until this article gets fleshed out a bit more, I vote that we don't reorganize it.

-Ben Brumfield

my opinion is that it probably all wants to get consolidated here. (i made "snuff" a redirect to here). i started "cigar" and "cigarette", but i think eventually those want to redirect here as well. --user:RAE

I've reorganized the headers a little bit. I like italics for subheadings, but don't much care for the bullet points. Any other opinions? -Ben Brumfield

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I'm interested to know why RAE added the line about dipping looseleaf? As far as I'm aware, there's very little significant difference between dipping and chewing looseleaf.

-Ben Brumfield

i've never chewed, only dipped, so i'm speaking of that whereof i know not - pls fix if wrong --user:RAE

So in chewing, you take a three-finger pinch and tuck it betwen your cheek and gum. Typically you have to ball it up with your tongue a bit if it gets unruly, or take it out and chomp on it a couple of times to soften it up. Then tuck it back into place and enjoy.

I always associate dipping with tucking something away and not doing anything else with it than that. If that definition is good, isn't looseleaf chewed? --Ben

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Is there any step by step information on how to make chewing tobacco available anywhere on the web? If so.. perhaps such detailed information may be helpful on this tobacco page or a new page for "chewing tobacco".

It would also be useful for me personally as I've searched and searched and while I can find plenty of info on the web about preparing tobacco for smoking, there's nothing step by step and informative on preparing chewing tobacco from the tobacco plant. Book references and web links to information appreciated. Please post here. I've grown my own tobacco before but other than it looking nice I've never known how to turn it into chewing tobacco. I enjoy chewing Copenhagen Snuff but it's getting too expensive at $5.00 or more a can to continue buying when I can just make chewing tobacco for myself (if I knew how that is). I look forward to and appreciate all replies to this message! Thanks for reading and the work on this Tobacco section on Wikipedia. I love tobacco. :) --Demonslave 11:02, May 22, 2004 (UTC)

Have you tried snus? I get it from [1] for about $2.70 per can - and that's shipped from Sweden. Yes, there's about $5.00 shipping, but buy 5 cans and the pain is reduced. Plus, studies are showing it to have dramatically less deleterious health effects than the American stuff. I switched from cigarettes to snus about a month ago, and I'm never going back. --NightMonkey 22:30, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)

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Oh, I found this interesting audio file about snus and its use in Sweden: http://www.theworld.org/content/04073.wma

But I didn't add a link to it on the Tobacco page, just thought I should mention it here for all interested. --Demonslave 11:26, May 22, 2004 (UTC)

Hey, why not put it over in snus? ;) --NightMonkey 22:30, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)

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Re: The CDC quote "For some people, it can be as addictive as heroin or cocaine." Since this quote is attributed, it does not have to be NPOV. I think it should be put back in the article. Rhobite 03:39, Jul 9, 2004 (UTC)

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I don't deny that the quote, itself, is accurate, nor incorrectly attributed. I question its inclusion due to the inflammatory nature of the quotation. For every person you can find that would match the quote, one could find someone who doesn't. I can understand the quote for what is meant, but my observations that many others can't get the real meaning and just get stuck on the negative connection.

Hmm... is it inflamatory, or the truth? Why should a statement, if true, be removed? Perhaps it should be placed in a "contreversy" section? If there is a negative connection, that, in and of itself, should not preclude inclusion, just as a positive connection does not. This article isn't an advertisement for Tobacco. I agree with Rhobite, and think it should be re-added. --NightMonkey 22:30, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)

Although I understand the hesitant attitude of making this a advertisment for tobacco, I think that adding such information on tobacco's addictive nature can be better versed without overdoing it on the negative side. Just as this shouldn't be an ad for tobacco, it shouldn't turn into an anti-tobacco article either. We should list potential side effects with plain "addiciton" being one...but also list reasons why people choose to use it such as "flavor, to moisten dry mouth, releave stress, ect...NOT "peer pressure, to act older, ect.."

As a dipper of moist smokeless tobacco myself(Kodiak), and the occasional user of loose leaf(Red Man), I have never heard of loose leaf being "dipped". Usually when someone is referring to dip,dipping, or dipping tobacco they are reffering to moist smokeless tobacco. When talking about loose leaf its commonly called chew or chewing tobacco. Techincally you don't "chew" on moist smokeless tobacco its generally far to finely cut or ground to actually chew.

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As far as the addictive properties of tobacco are concerned, the chart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:20drugs.gif) from the Lancet may be helpful. It would appear that, in general, tobacco is less addictive than cocaine or heroin, but is more addictive than methadone.

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Tobacco Kiln vs. Tobacco Barn

An anonymous user changed the word "barn" to "kiln" in the curing section for fire-cured tobacco. Google returns 48K hits for "tobacco barn" vs. around 700 for "tobacco kiln", but it turns out that this is the Australian term for a flue-cured tobacco barn. See [2] for an example. Ben 03:55, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Snuff edit

I made a major edit of the snuff section before I had registered. The "European Snuff" section is mine.

My medical references to snuff & hay fever are direct personal experience and confirmation that I received from my Ear, Nose & Throat specialist (who told me that he actually suggests snuff to some of his patients!)

BTW: I have a snuff page on my site: HowdyDave - Snuff --Dave ©¿©¬ 03:32, 2005 Apr 20 (UTC)

Catagory changes - hallucinogen?

I'm really not an expert on tobacco, so I could be wrong, but I don't think it is a hallucinogen is it? --Benna 00:31, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

At high doses it is, just put in some info about that and can provide references if necessary, although it will take me a day or two to find. eating a handful of rustica is much different than smoking a cigarette. I've been organizing some of these categories and placed tobacco in both herbal & fungal stimulants as well as herbal & fungal hallucinogens; as those are subcategories of herbal & fungal drugs/medicines, its already in that category by default. If you are still unhappy with this please get in touch on my talk page, as i'm sure we can figure something out. --Heah 00:46, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK, thats fine then, as long as its stressed that its in really high doses that is has that effect. --Benna 02:55, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Tobacco is not a hallucinogen at all, therefore, I have removed it from the categories entheogen and hallucinogen. --76.214.104.171 (talk) 05:46, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Toxicitiy inconsistencies

The article's second paragraph claims that there's a lethal dose of nicotine contained in as little as three cigarettes; however, the article later claims that shamans would consume tobacco in excessive quantities to achieve entheogenic effects. How did they manage to do so without dying?

thought i just posted this, but guess i just closed the window without saving it . . . apparently there is a drawback to tabbed browsing. Anyways. What's also interesting is that generally they use Nicotiana rustica for entheogenic purposes, which contains up to twenty times as much nicotine as north american varieties, according to some studies- meaning there's enough nicotine to kill you in much less than a quarter of a cigarette.

My short answer would be tolerance- an apprentice using tobacco will start his or her training very young, 8 or 9 years old, starting with a VERY small amount of tobacco. They do this every day for years, minutely increasing the dose along the way; it can often take a decade or more for such an apprenticeship to be completed. by the time you have worked up to significantly entheogenic amounts, your body has adjusted to the toxicity. Tolerance to the toxicity of nicotine seems to build easily; notice that one cigarette will often make a non-smoker sick while others can chain smoke 5 packs a day. As would be expected, the entheogenic use of tobacco isn't as common as it once was in the rainforest given the length of time it takes to be able to use it and the ever increasing age of those who did learn when they were young.

I would also hazard a guess that tobacco is entheogenic in lower quantities than assumed, but we are using for very different purposes and in very different surroundings. If i smoke too many cigarettes late at night and yawn, due to the combination of the nicotine and a head rush i very breifly find myself in a state similar to that of many dissociatives. --Heah 21:47, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Good point, additionally there are many Internet rumors claiming Al Quaida planned to make skin contact poisons using cigarettes. This is silly and clearly disinformation aimed to frighten the public. Al Quaida has much more powerful weapons and smoking is killing us quickly anyway. Don't fall for the Internet myth about skin contact poisons, it's hokum because you can't absorbe it that quickly through the skin in the concentrations they are purporting.

World Bank analysis

Not sure how this would fit into the article, but it's interesting. This is from a World Bank report (see www.drug-policy.org/documents/ illicit_drugs_convention_reform ):

While interventions to reduce demand for tobacco are likely to succeed, measures to reduce its supply are less promising. This is because, if one supplier is shut down, an alternative supplier gains an incentive to enter the market. The extreme measure of prohibiting tobacco is unwarranted on economic grounds aswell as unrealistic and likely to fail. Crop substitution is often proposed as a means to reduce the tobacco supply, but there is scarcely any evidence that it reduces consumption, since the incentives to farmers to grow tobacco are currently much greater than for most other crops....

True, perhaps, but policy & facts are N necessarily congruent. The same applies to MJ & cocaine, & the drug warriors continue to support crop sub, burn, & ban, despite 30yrs' failure... Trekphiler 02:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Genus or Species?

Nicotiana tabacum or Nicotiana? Not a good solution like it is now. --Saperaud 14:40, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree, this is only one species but it does not represent the whole genus.AnnaP 00:01, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Origin of the word "tobacco"

What is the source of the Y-shaped pipe explanation presented in the opening paragraph? The life of Christopher Columbus (1891), page 93 reads, "These mosquetes, as we should call them, they call tobacos." Here the author is referring to cigars: dried tobacco leaves wrapped in a tobacco leaf and smoked, as encountered on November 3 or November 4, 1492 by an expeditionary party dispatched by Christopher Columbus. It would seem that "they" were not the Spaniards, but rather the inhabitants of a village some "12 leagues" inland from the Cuban coast, in which case "tobacos" would be a local term, not an originally Spanish one. I don't understand what the book's author, Edward Everett Hale, meant by "mosquetes", which, as far as I can tell, simply means "muskets" (the weapon) in Spanish (obsolete slang for cigars?). Hale was a writer, not a scholar. At any rate, this article needs better grounding for a statement about the origin of the word, tobacco. Myron 12:59, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 8th ed. (1860), which obviously antedate's Hale's publication, reads, "The word tobacco has been the subject of much inquiry, and is not very satisfactorily accounted for. Some derive it from Tabago or Tabacco, one of the lesser Antilles; others from Tabasco, an island in the bay of Campeachy; others, again, from the circumstance that the herb is wrapped up for use in a dry leaf, which forms a sheath or envelope, and that this kind of sheath is always called tabacos by the Caribbeans." In light of this, the claim that the word is Spanish, while not disproven, is certainly insufficiently supported to warrant inclusion in the Wikipedia article. Myron 13:10, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 9th ed. (1888) states that, "The term tobacco appears not to have been a commonly used original name for the plant, and it has come to us from a peculiar instrument used for inhaling its smoke by the inhabitants of Hispaniola (San Domingo). The instrument, described by Oviedo (Historia de las Indias Occidentales, Salamanca, 1535), consisted of a small hollow wooden tube shaped like a Y, the two points of which being inserted in the nose of the smoker, the other end was held into the smoke of burning tobacco, and thus the fumes were inhaled. This apparatus the natives called 'tabaco'...." Myron 13:39, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Shisha

I would like to see some information on shisha. I know only that it is a kind of tobacco commonly smoked in hookahs, and I think the Egyptians originally made it by washing the tobacco to reduce the nicotine. Modern shisha has about 25% of the nicotine of cigarettes, and comes in various flavors. Any info appreciated. --NormalAsylum (t) 23:51, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Nicotiana genus

this article needs some serious reworking if this one is supposed to be a describtion of the nicotiana genus. as it is right now, it looks like a nice information page about all different kind of tobacco products and related information how to grow it etc... e.g. there is no word about the approx number of species within this genus, which is today known to be 67. this just as a simple example. another thing is that i am missing completely any information about the ecology of certain nicotiana species, why is it that some of them are pioneer plants, what is the tight ecological niche these plants fit in??

if i am searching for nicotiana, i get redirected to this page. maybe there should be a separate page about nicotiana genus?!

I favor your suggestion that nicotiana get a second page, about biology. "Tobacco" is a little to specific a term, and has so many cultural and industrial references that even if we were to add info on the biology of nicotiana, it would probably get drowned out. -Ben 12:26, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

this article starts with "Tobacco (Nicotiana spp., L.) refers to a genus of broad-leafed plants of the nightshade family indigenous to North and South America or to the dried and cured leaves." but this is not entirely right. first: Nicotiana attenuata for instance has lanceolate leaves. second: of course the most plants of the Nicotiana genus are present on the american continent: America (48 species) and Australia (18 species), but one is also growing in southern Melanesia and one in Namibia. -- Hendriks 10:12, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

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A smokeless cigarette?! I agree. Why would someone invent a smokeless cigarette? It must be a plot to prevent cancer. But why not just keep it a secret and become the worst killer in history?

Ubiespam

Has anyone else noticed this seemingly innocuous insertion of references to "the Ubie" and smokeless cigarettes in the tobacco and cigarette articles? It just smells fishy is all, that it would recieve such consistent placement. I think that someone might have an agenda. 130.85.248.110

Yes. It is most annoying. Couldn't someone run a bot to watch these pages for ubie-insertions? Zanaq 15:08, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Europe

History section omits intro date to Eur. Contrary to common belief, it was Sp Dr, Francisco Fernandez, in 1558, N Walter Raleigh. (I just wish I could quote a source...) Trekphiler 02:58, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Prescription

Just came across another factoid: tobacco in Br was available only thru apothecaries. (I just wish I could quote a source...) Trekphiler 22:59, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Harvesting and African Americans

I heard, but cannot confirm (that's why I listed it here rather in the article) that tobacco has a toxic liquid in it (like milkweed, I think) that burns people when they first touch it, but after awhile they develop an immunity to it. However, for some reason, African Americans have a natural immunity and thus were very attractive as slaves a few hundred years ago in the American southeast. Can anyone confirm this?--HereToHelp (talk) 01:04, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

There are two potential bases for this story. Green Tobacco Sickness is a problem for any laborer handling tobacco with their bare hands. It is caused by absorption of nicotine through the skin from contact with the gum of the plant leaves or juice of the plant. The greater nicotine tolerance a worker has (either from tobacco consumption or regular field work), the less susceptible they are to GTS.

The racial aspect of this story is probably a reference to the conventional wisdom of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries that people of African descent were better suited to the climate of the South. Any basis for this in fact may have been transported Africans' greater immunities to tropical diseases due to prior exposure in Africa -- immunities not acquired by transported Europeans. Seems like the story is conflating the real phenomenon of GTS with the racial legend. -Ben 16:01, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

products

Why is the cigarette not listed at the products? Gerrit ^CUTEDH 19:53, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Bibliography contents

The entry "Principles of Flue-Cured Tobacco Production" refers to a book that is out of print. At any rate, its purview seems too specialized for an article on tobacco in general. Actually, many of the items in the Bibliography section are quite specialized and probably don't deserve mention here. I hope people familiar with the tobacco literature will suggest which entries should be removed and which books merit inclusion. Myron 12:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Is a bibliography section supposed to suggest further reading, or to cite sources actually used? If the latter, the section as listed probably should stand. -Ben 21:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

The bibliography section should include references actually used. Furthermore its section heading should be "References" as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings)#Standard headings and ordering and inferred by Wikipedia:Cite sources#How to cite sources.

Being out of print does not mean that it is neither verifiable nor accessible. The book mentioned above does not seem to be too specialised for this article, particularly if it was actually used as a reference. Need to check with the editor who added the reference as to what they used from the book.--A Y Arktos 23:00, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Sowing

Most tobacco farmers no longer use this form of sowing, they use what is called a float bed, where the plants (along with dirt and fertilizer) are planted on styrofoam trays (which are laid out like grids) that are then floated in a pool of water inside a makeshift green house. I think a sentace should be alloted for this technique. Enigma 07:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Tobacco history: did the eastern hemisphere just smoke opium pre columbus?

Before tobacco was brought back to the old world, what were people smoking? --Fxer 22:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Nothing at all, in Western Europe. Early accounts of tobacco use commented on how strange "drinking smoke" was. I'm sure the reception was different in areas where opium or hashish was smoked, however. -Ben 01:38, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Addictiveness

Why is there no mention of the highly addictive nature of this substance?

An eeeeeeevil conspiracy! Seriously, there are a few references within the article, but the subject is covered more extensively under articles on the health effects of smoking.

This article is obviously extremely biased in favor of tobacco consumption. The letters ADDICT, including addiction and addictive, are only found once in the article with ctrl-F. There is no talk of the withdrawal symptoms experienced by those trying to stop tobacco use. If this is not rectified, I will add these subjects in myself, and I will include a myriad of references. And I make sure that it makes tobacco look bad.

Tobacco In Canada

I think it might be worth mentioning the Tobacco industry as it is in South Western Ontario. Primarily within the regions of Norfolk County, Oxford County and Haldimand County. There is no mention of this in the article at all.

US-centric article

This article is quite US-centric. You wouldn't know, for instance, from the History section, that there have been and are significant centres of tobacco cultivation outside of the USA. Can someone provide some balanced coverage for tobacco cultivation elsewhere?--Iacobus 23:40, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

bad reference

the final sentence of the introduction section indicates: in contrast, use of steam-cured chewing tobacco (snus), avoids the carcinogenicity by not generating nitrosamines, but the negative effects of the nicotine on the cardiovascular system and pancreas are not ameliorated.[4] this reference (an abstract) makes no statements about nicotine's effects on the pancreas, and it suggests that there are no significant differences re: the effects of nicotine (snus) on atherioscleroris when compared to non-users, only a higher risk in high BP. hence, there is non-factual and overgeneralized information provided in the statement. 128.147.38.10 20:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Whole First paragraph - delete it?

I'm new to this but it definitly isn't what I'd call Encyclopedia quality, personal pronouns and all. FelixNZ 23:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Looking at his talk page, he's banned - have deleted the paragraph from this article and the tobacco smoking article FelixNZ

Genus Nicotiana and Nicotiana tabacum split-off

I think "Tobacco" as plant species (Nicotiana tabacum) and plant genus (Nicotiana L.) should be split off and distinguished from "Tobacco" the processed plant product (the focus of this article). Does anyone think so? If there are no objections, I will perform the split in a few days. Sjschen 17:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand why this article doesn't say which specific species are used in producing tobacco for the tobacco industry. Badagnani 11:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Removed spam link

Link to Stogie Fresh website removed as spam.

--Flapjackboy 22:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Schedule I Drug?

This site states that tobacco is federally classified as a Schedule I drug in the U.S.

http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/drug_guide/Tobacco —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.107.77.164 (talk) 09:49, 28 January 2007 (UTC).

Tobacco is exempted from the Controlled Substances Act.--Wxyrty 22:31, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

References

The references should be unified for clarity and consistence; the eternal links used as reference should be moved accordingly.Canaima 22:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Eggplant

There is no discussion on the quantity of Nicotine in Eggplant, which would be poingant to the article. --Mrtobacco 21:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

This article isn't solely about nicotine -- it's about tobacco. Adding information about eggplant in your context would be like adding information about "pudding" to the article about "cake" just because both have sugar in them. Sugarbat 05:04, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Tobacco Culture

Why is there no mention of tobacco and cigar culture? Tobacco consumption is largely a social indulgence akin to alcohol. The lack of mention of this (especially in the introduction) with the focus on the negative effects of tobacco on the body make it read with a political bias.

Shouldn't there be a warning?

Tobacco contains Harmine, a powerful monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs)

monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs)+tyramine =cheese syndrome

monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs)+ tryptophan=hyperserotonemia

Tyramine =foods that went through fermentation or decay. Foods containing considerable amounts of tyramine include fish, chocolate, alcoholic beverages, and fermented foods such as cheese, soy sauce and soy bean condiments, sauerkraut, processed meat, and red wine.

Tryptophan =chocolate, oats, bananas, dried dates, milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, red meat, eggs, fish, poultry, sesame, chickpeas, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds,spirulina and peanuts. It is found in turkey at a level typical of poultry in general.

List of foods containing tyramine

hum...since there are a lot of smokers, shouldn't there be a warning somewhere since these two syndromes are potentially lethal!!! --Wxyrty 21:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Before starting on a warning, it would be prudent to investigate whether the amount of harmala alkaloids ingested in the various forms of tobacco use is anywhere near enough to provoke these cross-reactions. If you don't do this, then it would tantamount to warning people to not eat almonds (and lots of other foods too) because they naturally contain harmless amounts of cyanide. Frotz 08:36, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Exposure to lower levels of cyanide over a long period (e.g., after use of cassava roots as a primary food source in tropical Africa) results in increased blood cyanide levels. These may result in weakness of the fingers and toes, difficulty walking, dimness of vision, deafness, and decreased thyroid gland function, but chemicals other than cyanide may contribute to these effects. Skin contact with cyanide can produce irritation and sores.

It is not known whether cyanides can directly cause birth defects in people. Birth defects were seen in rats that ate diets of cassava roots. Effects on the reproductive system were seen in rats and mice that drank water containing sodium cyanide.

Of course, the lethal amount of cross-reactions should be researched and stated. However, Smokers are exposed to tobacco all the time and these foods that contain Tyramine and/or Tryptophan seem very comman so I think there should be a warning just for that, since the accumulated effect through out a day could be very damaging and if an individual were unfortunated enough to consume the lethal amount, he/she would die --Wxyrty 14:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

After looking at the list of foods again, I could not think of a single meal that I had that did not contain at least one of these foods: fish, chocolate, alcoholic beverages, and fermented foods such as cheese, soy sauce and soy bean condiments, sauerkraut, processed meat, red wine, oats, bananas, dried dates, milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, red meat, eggs, poultry, sesame, chickpeas, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds,spirulina, peanuts and turkey. This is very troubling, since the cross-reaction between these foods and tobacco is so deadly. At least there should be a warning because there is no shortage of ,tyramine, and tryptophan in foods and once Harmal is introduced into the body, the lethal combinations could occur for tobacco consumers.

The most worrisome aspect of these cross-reactions is that unlike cancer and other chronic illness which would take a long time to die from and where treatments are possible. These cross-reactions happen too quickly. If one were not informed of these cross-reactions and seek help immediately, then it would mean death for that unfortunated person, because treatments would become impossible or rather too late for them to have any effect.

Cheese syndrome

when the MAO enzymes are inhibited, tyramine concentrations can rapidly increase and become toxic. Tyramine mimics dopamine and norepinephrine structure and toxicity includes hypertensive crisis and possibly heart failure.

Hyperserotonemia

Symptom onset is usually rapid, often occurring within minutes after self-poisoning or a change in medication. Severe symptoms include severe hypertension and tachycardia that may lead to shock. Severe case often have agitated delirium as well as muscular rigidity and high muscular tension. Temperature may rise to above 41.1°C (105.98° F) in life-threatening cases. Other abnormalities include metabolic acidosis, rhabdomyolysis, seizures, renal failure, and disseminated intravascular coagulation.

Later, someone could list the lethal amount and how long it takes the body to breakdown Harmine,tyramine, and tryptophan so to avoid lethal combinations of these substances in the body.

I suggest a warning be listed for now, then a list of the lethal amount later.--Wxyrty 20:42, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, I'd like to know just how much harmala is present per gram of leaf, both fresh and cured and some figure on how much harmala is actually ingested. I think it's clear that it's nowhere near the level of Syrian Rue Frotz 07:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

sorry, it is Harmine not Harmala and tobacco is rich in Harmine, I will try to find out the lethal amount but in the mean time, shouldn't there be a warning? Also, I found something very interesting.

http://www.eff.org/Net_culture/Ritual/Drugs/legal_herbs.encyclopedia

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/smokmaoa.htm http://www.biopsychiatry.com/smokemao.htm

http://www.anthonygregory.com/parkinsonssmoking.htm http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol13N3/tobacco.html

--Wxyrty 18:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I said "harmala" because it's tobacco contains several members of the harmala family of alkaloids. Harmine is only one of them. There is no media storm about hypertensive crises in people smoking and eating cheese at the same time, for example, so no warning should be added yet. Frotz 19:32, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I guess we have to wait for someone to die from these conditions before any serious measure could be taken to inform others. After all, this is the great American principle: if it is not broke why fix it? There is no assurance that other would listen. It is the others fault for not knowing that these interactions between these sustances are deadly. We knew in advance that even if the others were informed that the contineous consumption of these substances togather would harm them, they would continue to do it. There is no point, because it is our belief that others would just ignore us, and our belief is always right. So we must wait until one of them to die from these condtions then we will held our heads up high, for we knew something that they didn't, then say to the rest of them with pity, maybe even a few drop of tears: See, we knew this would happen, but we knew it was useless to tell you. Isn't that so? They will listen then and that is how we do things around here. People couldn't possibly learn before experiencing pain, like rats in a lab, because the media said so.--Wxyrty 01:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how recently you've looked at a pack of cigarettes (for example) lately, but at least in the U.S. every cigarette package (and, I think, every other container of all other kinds of tobacco -- smoking, chewing, sniffing, etc.?) already has a big old warning on it about how cigarettes contain carbon monoxide, and anyone (at least in the U.S.) who's old enough to legally buy and use such products, probably already is fully aware that smoking not just can, but does, cause cancer (physiological location dependent on form of tobacco used, and a person's predisposition to cancer types). My point is that if people choose not to heed the warnings that are printed right on packages of tobacco products, they're likely not going to be concerned about the relatively obscure dangers you list, above, if they were added to a wikipedia article. I think you'd be better served not worrying that people are going to die from not knowing about the risk of harmine poisoning associated with the use of tobacco products. Sugarbat 05:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Please don't go over the top here guys

yes Tobacco is dangerous but that Hamine comment is really over the top. There is no doubt that tobacco is carcinogenous (bad spelling I know) especially when burned. Nicotine is a toxin, sure but who at this point does not know this when they choose to start smoking. It's dangerous - just like Alcohol, Tylenol, Ibuprofen, Caffeine etc.. PERSONAL CHOICE MY FRIENDS....I've been smoking for 40+ years! --Mrtobacco 02:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Is the "intercourse PA" comments a joke or serious? Most Tobacco does not come from PA as PA only accounts for less then 5% of US Tobacco grown. I get the joke but is it appropriate?

--Mrtobacco 17:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I think you're reading too much into it. Frotz 01:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

There has been so much anti-tobacco slander on the page I think I might be hyper sensitive. I've had to undo so much junk over the while --Mrtobacco 02:39, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I understand. Perhaps if we remove the name of the village from the caption. Frotz 04:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

---

Unregistered User here:

Tobacco contains a minor quantity of harman, not harmine! They are both reversible monoamine oxidase inhibitors and they both have a beta-carboline ring structure. Harmine is a strongly active MAO inhibitor by any route of administration in vivo, yet harman has only shown to be strongly active in in vitro studies. In vivo harman doesn't share pharmacological similarities with harmine. Harman has been found in many plants although usually not a contributor to the action for which they are known.

Here is an interesting abstract on the subject : Role of acetaldehyde in tobacco smoke addiction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.201.15.159 (talk) 06:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Clarification in the Third Paragraph

The first paragraph mentions different ways to use tobacco, and then the third paragraph starts with: "Long term tobacco use carries significant risks of developing various cancers as well as strokes, and severe cardiovascular and respiratory diseases." This just says "tobacco use," however the reference sited is specifically for smoking. Cancer should be a no-brainer for most people, but it's unclear as to whether or not all of these problems are caused by all tobacco use, given the reference.

there should be a category linking all 2,000+ chemicals in tobacco smoke

there should be a category linking all 2,000 + chemicals in cigarette smoke.

How is that any more informative than listing all 2000+ chemicals in apples? Frotz 03:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

This page is NOT ABOUT CIGARETTE SMOKING - IT IS ABOUT THE PLANT TOBACCO! --Mrtobacco 00:27, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, technically this is an article about the processed agricultural product derived from Nicotiana. But I agree, this whole "list all the chemicals in cigarettes/tobacco" fanaticism does get a bit tiring. Sjschen 04:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

put it under one of the tobbaco use pages if your so damn militant about it --24.2.50.22 09:11, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

History?

tobbaco is a very important plant so wheres the history the plant is almost as important if not more important historicly than some of the other plants like sugar the number of spices europeans were looking for in the 16th century cotton salt its way up on the list of historicly significant resources so where is the history

Cancer? Anyone read something NOT put out by big medicine?

No independent, neutral study done outside the united states (including those sponsored by the WHO) has linked anything related to tobacco, the plant, with cancer. So far; every such NEUTRAL study only links chemicals added to tobacco to causing cancer, not the plant itself. When the general public, in the US and abroad, accept the facts; we can get past Big Chem and Big Med and address, and solve, the problem with tobacco: chemical additives. For over 5000 years people have smoked, chewed, and ingested tobacco with no record of anything remotely close to cancer being recorded. Then suddenly, in the late 1800s, early 1900s things changed drastically. Interesting coincidence that that is about the same time people started adding other things to the tobacco, first nutmeg (causes cancer), then Cobalt-Nitrate (causes cancer) then dozens, hundreds of other chemicals (many causing cancer.) Any statement generally along the lines of 'tobacco... causes cancer' is categorically, undeniably false. Any statement that it does shows either, at best, ignorance, and at worse intentional falsehood. Lostinlodos 13:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

This being said, you cannot argue that smoking tobacco does cause cancer today, and yes it most likley is because what they're adding to it now. That still should be in this article, at least a section if not a major article.

See, what I believe needs to be done here is an additional article block (including the above referenced complete history) showing the timeline of tobacco, the plant, as a whole. I do not deny that many cigarettes, various chewing and ingestion tobacco's today do, in their entirety, cause cancer. It's the various statements that continually get added in, often by unregistered and new users, stating 'tobacco causes cancer' that is the issue here. That's a false statement. And much more attention needs to be drawn to the facts of the intention; chemicals added to tobacco cause cancer, despite what the Surgeon General of the US states, the fact of the matter is that "no additives" DOES "make a safer", if not safe (debatable), cigarette. That needs to be addressed. Lostinlodos (talk) 15:24, 20 November 2007 (UTC)