Jump to content

Talk:Augusto Roa Bastos

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Nathanlusignan (talk | contribs) at 19:25, 8 April 2008 (→‎GA Ready!: Round 6). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

The {{GAN}} template should be substituted at the top of the article talk page.

Template:MuMaMa

References

I'm sticking this list of references here, in case they come in handy as we revise the page. But wikipedia shouldn't be just a collection of bibliographies. NB that not one of these (or the English-language works) are cited in the article itself.

Spanish

  • Augusto Roa Bastos : hijo de la dualidad y maestro de la delegación de la escritura / Eric Courthès., 2003
  • El estilo de la tierra : Augusto Roa Bastos / Armando Almada Roche., 1998
  • Historia ficticia y ficción histórica : Paraguay en la obra de Augusto Roa Bastos / Brent J Carbajal., 1996
  • La narrativa breve de Augusto Roa Bastos / Carmen Luna Sellés., 1993
  • De la narrativa de Augusto Roa Bastos y de otros temas de literatura paraguaya / Enrique Marini Palmieri., 1991
  • Augusto Roa Bastos / Paco Tovar., 1990
  • Las Voces del karaí : estudios sobre Augusto Roa Bastos / Fernando Burgos., 1988
  • Desconfianza e insolencia : estudio sobre la obra de Augusto Roa Bastos / Silvia Pappe., 1987
  • Augusto Roa Bastos y la producción cultural americana / Saúl Sosnowski., 1986
  • Augusto Roa Bastos : Semana de Autor / Rubén Bareiro Saguier., 1986
  • Significado y coherencia del universo narrativo de Augusto Roa Bastos / Gladys Vila Barnés., 1984
  • Roa Bastos, precursor del post-boom / Juan Manuel Marcos., 1983
  • La cuentística de Augusto Roa Bastos / Adelfo L Aldana., 1975

--jbmurray (talk|contribs) 23:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also this reference, sitting there doing nother:

--jbmurray (talk|contribs) 23:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

This article still badly needs referencing. I'm cutting and pasting over more suggested texts from the main page: they should be referenced in the article itself.

  • Voices from the fuente viva : the effect of orality in twentieth-century Spanish American narrative / Amy Nauss Millay., 2005
  • Augusto Roa Bastos's I the Supreme : a dialogic perspective / Helene Carol Weldt-Basson., 1993
  • Fictional history and historical fiction: Paraguay in the Works of Augusto Roa Bastos / Brent James Carbajal., 1993
  • Narrative voices in Yo el Supremo by Augusto Roa Bastos / Carolyn Anne Morrissey., 1988
  • Augusto Roa Bastos (Twayne's World Author Series) / David William Foster., 1978
  • Myth and reality in Hijo de Hombre : a novel by Augusto Roa Bastos / David R Gifford., 1974
  • The myth of Paraguay in the fiction of Augusto Roa Bastos / David William Foster., 1969

--jbmurray (talk|contribs) 23:16, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

B-class rating

Let me start by explaining the rating system. Wikipedia has two ´´official´´ article ratings, Good Article and Featured Article. the other ratings: Stub, Start, B-class and A-class are Wikiproject specific ratings and are used to help participants keep track of overall article development. There is no formal process for applying these ratings and they’re largely subjective, although some broad guidelines exists, see here. By reading that you can get an idea of why I did not up rate this article to B-class, basically it needs to be expanded. The article is missing core sections such as: A description of his major works (the article is too brief on its cover of this aspect), The biography section needs to be expanded and if possible divided in subsections (see: Miguel Ángel Asturias). The last paragraph of the Bio could be used as the beginning of a legacy section. In short the Biography section as it is covers a very large span of time (almost 60 years) in only four paragraphs. I'm sure those 60 years are worth more than that in terms of content. That about sums it up for a B rating, you'll notice that I made no mention of stylistic or orthographical improvements as these are not really necessary for B-class but you’ll have to look into it for a future Good article nomination. Good luck :) Acer (talk) 11:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and least you forget, Sources! Sources! Sources! :) Acer (talk) 21:24, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Sources

This article still desperately needs reliable sources. And NB that the Encyclopedia Britannica webpage that is now cited five times doesn't cut it as a reliable source. See above for suggestions. Keep at it! --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 08:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions

You've done a great job of sourcing what is in the article now, but I'll second the motion for more reliable sources. As you dig into sources you'll find a lot of useful information that is not already here. Other suggestions for improvements:

  • The Chronology section needs to be removed. All of the information in that section should be incorporated into the prose of the article.
  • The Writing Style and Major Works section needs to be cited and expanded. Ideally, these would be two different sections, but that will depend on how much information you can find.
  • There ought to be a section on Recognition. This would detail significant criticism of his works as a whole and describe any awards he's won in more detail.
  • Is there any information on how he died?

If you need any ideas on how to structure the article, check the list of Featured Articles for literature and theater. When you think you've add in about all the content you can, then post here and one of us on the FA-Team will do an MOS-check for you. Good luck, and, if you have any questions, please just aks. Karanacs (talk) 14:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Juan Manuel Marcos reference

Can we double check the details for the Juan Manuel Marcos reference? We need a date, for one. And I can't find a journal called simply "Latin American Writers." Many thanks, and it's good to see some sources being added here! But we do need to get the details down. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 23:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I sorted this out: it's not a journal, it's a book. I managed to track down the necessary details: editor, publisher, place of publication etc. But it would save time if you guys were able to put that information in yourselves! This is important. (Not just in wikipedia, of course.) --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 10:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, there is a date in the code there; I added it again, to a different field. But another problem: I note that the inline reference and the full reference don't match up. The former gives a citation to page 16; the latter gives the article page range as 1209-1213 (i.e. lacking a page 16). These need to match up. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 23:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But this remains a problem. According to the bibliographic info, there can't be a page 16. I'll erase that, and replace it with question marks for now. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 10:08, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent!

You guys are motoring! Excellent! Keep it up. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 22:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lists

Is there a bias against lists in Wikipedia? Jbmurray you have taken apart my list under "honors and recognition" and someone else suggested eliminating the biography chronology.I come at this from the perspective of the reader. Having the ability to find condensed information on the major accomplishments or life events of Augusto Roa Bastos would be very useful no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nathanlusignan (talk • contribs) 17:51, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are really two types of "articles" at Wikipedia:regular articles and stand alone lists. Regular articles are primarily in prose, and a limited use of lists is permitted (for example, a Bibliography section that lists works by the subject, and sometimes awards or discographies). A lot of times, this information is broken out into stand-alone lists, especially if the list gets quite long. For example, see Timeline of Jane Austen or Elton John discography. There is actually a separate process to make a stand-alone list be a Featured List. More information is at Wikipedia:LISTS. Karanacs (talk) 18:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd add the following. I've seen that wikipedia reviewers tend not to like information that is presented in list form within an article. And I agree with them. Because the point (in the process as a whole) is to take information and present it in a coherent manner. Lists are just a series of bullet points, presented without context or explanation. The point is to present and allow people to understand the major life events (or whatever) of Roa Bastos. So you'll see, I didn't break up your list of awards: I turned it into prose, eliminating what was relatively insignificant, and helping readers to make sense of the rest, showing what weight to give each fact, etc, their precise significance, etc. (NB I'm not saying that bit of prose is perfect; but it's a start, and it should give you a sense of how you should proceed.) This is what the article should be doing as a whole: compiling information, and helping readers to make sense of it. Lists only compile. D'ya see?

Uprated to B-class congrats!

Ok, I just uprated this. You guys did a good job so far expanding the article but theres still much to do for GA. The most pressing issue is that this article is still lacking content, the Hijo de hombre and Style sections need to be expanded, the Themes sections needs to be written. Seconding previous comments, the Chronology section really doesnt belong, all the information that is present in it should be included in the prose of the article. After all thats done we can start worrying about copy-editing. PS: Its good to see that you've added references, keep them coming :) Acer (talk) 20:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Another source

I just came across this book, which should be useful:

  • The dictator’s dictation : the politics of novels and novelists / Robert Boyers. New York : Columbia University Press, c2005. KOERNER LIBRARY stacks. Call Number: PN3503 .B655 2005

It has a chapter on (or by?) Roa Bastos. You could share it with the Supreme people, too. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 10:07, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and now I made a whole page of sources that I got from the MLA Bibliography. Hope this helps! Also share and share alike with the people over on I, the Supreme. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 11:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Time line section

The time line section needs to be axed. Make sure all the relevant info is included in the article narrative and then delete that section. Timelines should not be included in biographical articles unless they are moved to separate list-type articles. Kaldari (talk) 21:34, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA nom

There are two {{fact}} tags still present. These need to be addressed. On the whole, this article is advanced enough to risk a GA nom. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 21:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Good article nomination on hold

This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of April 5, 2008, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Article is well-written for the most part, could use a little bit of copy-editing. The lead/intro of the article needs to be expanded (Read the first two paragraphs of WP:LEAD for more on that.)
2. Factually accurate?: 2 {{fact}} tags are present in the article and this is an immediate cause for failing the WP:GAN, but shouldn't be too hard to fix that relatively quickly. The first sentence in the Legacy subsection seems to be WP:OR, and you might want to do another read-through of the rest of the article to watch out for that. The presence of ??? in the References subsection is also a bit odd, this should be addressed and fixed.
3. Broad in coverage?: A few of the article's subsections are a bit small - specifically Early life: 1917-1932, France: 1976-1989, Return to Paraguay and the Cervantes Prize: 1989-2006, The engaged writer and the condition of human suffering, and in particular, I feel that the last subsection, Legacy, should be expanded a bit more.
4. Neutral point of view?: Article is neutrally worded and conforms to NPOV. Pass.
5. Article stability? As part of an ongoing active project the article has recently gone through significant changes - but I see no ongoing edit-wars to speak of, and both edit-summaries and discussion on the article's talk page seems quite civil. Pass.
6. Images?: Only one image used in the article, depicting the article's subject, in the infobox. This image is fair-use - and though this is not an article on a living person - I wonder if it might be possible somehow to obtain a free-use image of this individual? If this is seen as not possible, no biggie, but it would be nice if someone tried to get a free-use image.


Great work overall, the article has most certainly come a long ways in the last few months. Please post a message to my talk page when you feel the above comments have been addressed.

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be reviewed again. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work so far. Cirt (talk) 07:29, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Material removed

Finally, Roa Bastos also received some belated recognition in Paraguay itself, as in 1990 he won the country's Condecoración de la Orden Nacional del Mérito.[citation needed]

I removed the above, since the citation request has not been met. I have searched for a citation, but though the internet is full of this, none of the ready sources meet the reliability requirement. The nearest I can find to a book source is this: Augusto Roa Bastos recibe la Orden Nacional del Mérito otorgada por servicios extraordinarios a la patria. Is this the same thing? The hit is only a snippet, but you could look in Augusto Roa Bastos: écriture et oralité, by Carla Fernandes, if you have it in your library. qp10qp (talk) 16:25, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also removed, pending a citation:

he spent the prize money on educational and literary projects in Paraguay.[citation needed]

Once again, I looked for a good source but could not find one online. The nearest information was in the Guardian obituary, where it said that he supported Paraguayan writers. Perhaps the Bach article says something about it, since it references something similar further on.

Moving these statements out should not damage the article too much and will help meet the GA reviewer's requirements. If citations can be found, please return the material to the article, of course. qp10qp (talk) 16:54, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cut Britannica refs

I've replaced the Britannica refs. Unfortunately, I can't get the Barnard ref to "jump" to the bibliography (never used Harvard in this way before). Hopefully someone can fix that. qp10qp (talk) 01:08, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alias gardelito

I've changed the listed date of this screenplay from 1963 to 1961. Though there are other dates around, 1961 is given by Barnard and Rist, who are filmographers. IMdB, though not reliable overall to be used as a reference, is usually good for dates and agrees. qp10qp (talk) 01:08, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA Ready!

Hey there! I've done my best to meet the GA criteria describe above, and I think this article deserves GA status.

  • 1. Well written? Copy edits completed for whole page and introduction expanded significantly.
  • 2. Factually accurate?: dealt with all inconsistencies and question marks.
  • 3. Broad in coverage?: expanded the following subsections: Early life: 1917-1932,
  France: 1976-1989, Return to Paraguay and the    Cervantes Prize: 1989-2006, 
  The engaged writer and the condition of human suffering, and Legacy.
  • 4. Neutral point of view?: Already a pass.
  • 5. Article stability? Already a pass.
  • 6. Images?: Good not find any more legal images. Can anyone help with this?

Cheers, nathanlusignan (talk)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Augusto_Roa_Bastos&oldid=204279842"