User talk:Davidruben

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September 2004 – December 2005 January 2006 – April 2006 April 2006 – August 2006 September 2006 – December 2006 December 2006 – February 2007 February 2007 – September 2007 September 2007 – January 2008 January 2008 – April 2008

Drugbox automatically adding pregnancy category scheme

Hi there David. Una Smith recently posted at the Drugbox talk page suggesting that a category scheme to classify drugs by pregnancy category be created. I think it's an excellent idea, and was wondering whether you could rig the template so that articles are automatically added to cats according to the value of | pregnancy_AU =  and | pregnancy_US = , sort of like articles with no structure image are added to Category:Drug pages needing a structure drawing. Do you think it's feasible? Best, Fvasconcellos (t·c) 16:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Speen: to have a pneumococcal vaccination or not

I had my spleen removed at the age 14 through an accident. I am now 50 yeras old and have had 2 pneumococcal vaccinations over the past 10 years (one every five years) as my current GP advised this. However, I am fit and healthy and would like to know if there are any long term effects of (a) not having a spleen and (b) not having pneumococcal vaccinations, as opinions appear to differ amongst GPs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.242.168 (talk) 14:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Can't go giving specific medical advice here at Wikipedia. Look at Asplenia article and its links to official guidelines. As for duration of risk, a 1997 paper A study of 42 episodes of overwhelming post-splenectomy infection: Is current guidance for asplenic individuals being followed? observed "Patients of all ages were affected with OPSI occurring up to 59 years after splenectomy. A mortality rate of 45% was seen. Pneumococcal infection caused at least 37 of 42 episodes, but only 12 patients had received pneumococcal vaccine. " and "Much more needs to be done to ensure that asplenic patients are warned of the risks of infection, and given at least pneumococcal vaccine. The role of antibiotics for either continual prophylaxis or as a reserve supply for self-prescription at appropriate times also needs greater discussion."

I can only really then point you in the direction of some UK (given I'm British) Department of Health and Trust-produced infomation sheets:

• Splenectomy: Information for patients and patient card (Department of Health webpage to download factsheet)
• GUIDELINES FOR MANAGEMENT OF ASPLENIC PATIENTS (PDF - one hospital trust's guidelines)
• Are there guidelines for penicillin prophylaxis in asplenic patients? (NHS for Wales FAQ 2001 which discusses antibiotics and vaccinations)

Take care, David Ruben ^Talk 14:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Ban

Hi David, Just wondering, banning users from specific articles : does that usually work well? Is it common practice to use it?

Ciao, JacobH (talk) 15:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

As a community project, it is for general editors to indicate when another editor is being disruptive to the collaborative effort. As such (sensible) consensus on a talk page should guide other editors, and acting against that is therefore de facto disruptive and is well covered by policies on disruption WP:Block and WP:3RR which notes even one revert may be disruptive and warrant a block. The situation here is certainly not the commonly encountered disruption - he is articulate, knowledgeable in specialised areas and able reference, wikimarkup etc. Indeed 3RR itself is not (as far as I am aware) ever directly approached now. WP:COI is really the issue here, and where edits are self-promoting or cannot be respected as having impartial NPOV, then an editor continuing to so edit is disruptive. WP:AGF of course requires there to be dialogue and where this fails to achieve a satisfactory outcome then warning of being blocked. The community instruction to desist from further article editing is what is meant by a community ban (confusingly WP:Banned links to Wikipedia:Community sanction noticeboard which has since been closed down in favour of the one area of WP:AN/I - rightly as it acted often with undue haste in blocking). So following WP:COI/N discussion and the talk page, I have merely made an assessment (as a admin) of community consensus/decision and so notified GB (wikipedia is not a democracy and GB must work within this). The view at WP:COI/N is for progressive blocks if COI not heeded.

Does it usually work - no idea, but it seems the right approach (vs. just seeming to block as a punishment - which is not permitted). Will it work here ? - no idea but it is GB last chance to stop ignoring the views of other editors and respect consensus building.

Is it common practice ? - I suspect not, and most admins at this point would conclude he is already sufficiently familiar with policies and had enough previous warnings to just step in and have blocked him for a few days. I'm trying to be nice here, but as I said really up to GB to take stock.

PS remember do not aggravate the situation here yourself, as baiting is unfair, risks subsequent action having a broader sweep and include you in collateral actions, or risk being seen as mitigation. Lets give GB some space to reflect and decide how he wishes to work within the English Wikipedia guideline & policies and with its community of editors... David Ruben ^Talk 17:18, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

This is all very well, but show me where I acted against consensus on Vereniging Basisinkomen, or anywhere else for that matter. Guido den Broeder (talk) 20:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not familiar either with the procedures on the English wikipedia, I'll need my space as well. Thanks for your extensive reaction, I'm more or less interested in the procedures because we've got similar problems on the Dutch wikipedia as well (in general). The discussion of blocking, progressive blocks and edit wars is a never ending story. Any alternatives, suchs as banning users from certain articles, may be worth evaluating for the Dutch wikipedia. Regards, JacobH (talk) 11:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The possibility of banning users from certain articles or areas exists on nl:Wikipedia and has been applied on various occasions, sometimes as an agreement between users. Guido den Broeder (talk) 11:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Request for arbitration

This is to inform you that I have filed a request for arbitration on your ruling, see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Request_to_lift_article_ban. Guido den Broeder (talk) 16:48, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Robotje

David, could you explain to user:Robotje that the talk page of Vereniging Basisinkomen is not the place to discuss perceived events on nl:Wikipedia? Thanks, Guido den Broeder (talk) 15:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

 Done - talk page clearly not place to discuss an editor’s invoking of administrative action in another Wikipedia (see also WP:VPP#Interwiki allowable evidence of user behaviour - somewhat against what I expected, misdemenas elsewhere may be more freely noted where appropriate) David Ruben ^Talk 23:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Guido den Broeder and Dutch Wikipedians

Hi David. I see from the above, COI/N, and the arbitration page that you are now attempting to resolve the issues around Guido den Broeder. My concern here is that some editors seem to have followed him from the Dutch Wikipedia with the express intent of removing the stuff he adds here. I think they have now realised that was not the best approach, and are now trying to work within the en-wiki community instead, but could you possibly give your opinion on that? I've been trying to handle things at Talk:Melody Amber chess tournament and that seems OK now. It is difficult to balance between working with people who want to edit on areas they are most interested in and knowledgeable about, and those who might be veering towards a COI. Sometimes it is better to work with them than ban them from articles. Carcharoth (talk) 07:58, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

• Hi David, I see your post. It occurred to me there is some things you may not be aware of. Please check this user. User:LucianoHdk and contributions Special:Contributions/LucianoHdk especially this and then Vereniging Basisinkomen Afd. It appears possible to me this is a user from the Dutch Wiki come to English wiki, not in a constructive way but more to antagonise Guido. SunCreator (talk) 22:41, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

You mentioned, and then were uncertain, about the WP:VPP#Interwiki allowable evidence of user behaviour thread. I had assumed cross mention was taboo if not frowned upon, but seemingly not, however I have acted on behalf of GDB that discussion of his actions re RFARs on Dutch Wikipedia are certainly inappropriate in an article talk-space. However, LucianoHdk made one talk page comment re COI adding links to ones own material and removed that once. Single AfD pointing out that Dutch Wikipedia does not include the organisation is hardly in itself antagonistic - and whilst interesting it was a weak argument that a topic is not-notable - Dutch Wikipedia may just have a gapping hole waiting to be filled ! Of course if Dutch wikipedia had had their own AfD and decided that the group was not notable, then I think it would be quite hard to justify why a foreign (aka Englkish) wikipdia finds the topic notable when only sources are in Dutch and the organisation has failed to raise itself above the horizon for Dutch editors. Now were LucianoHdk clearly identifyable as an editor at Dutch Wikipedia who has been incivil to GDB, or previoulsy cautioned not to wikistalk there, then presence/actions here in English Wikipedia would warrent at least an AGF warning. Difficult, not least because I don't speak Dutch and can't go investigating through Dutch Wikipedia :-) Having other uninvolved editor watch over these articles should help moderate the various parties and prevent edit warring - so thank you :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:31, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't speak Dutch either, which is saving me some time, as otherwise I might go and investigate what is going on the Dutch wiki. If this Vereniging Basisinkomen article was deleted on the Dutch wiki my initial thought would be that it was falsely deleted, i.e that the AFD was overrun with individuals intent on removing it for non valid wiki reasons. However, I guess as you said that didn't happen and I can't deeply investigate either. On the English wiki the activities of some who choose delete in the Afd look suspicious. User talk:GijsvdL(note talk page is all about GDB and his topics), User talk:Migdejong(few contributions and only one AFD the Vereniging Basisinkomen Afd plus comments on Chronic fatigue syndrome another one of GDB few topics of interest - those two topics have nothing in common except GDB), and the already cited Special:Contributions/LucianoHdk. SunCreator (talk) 00:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, GDB has edited Vereniging Basisinkomen today. I've unwatched the page 'cause frankly I don't care about it. I don't know what's extant or going on about potential COI issues. I still think that as treasurer, he shouldn't be editing the page. WLU (talk) 22:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

It's a change of 'guaranteed minimum income' to 'basic income' which is proposed on the talk page without any objections. I shall keep the page on my watchlist for a while. SunCreator (talk) 23:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Please note that user:Fram has removed the external link to the Vereniging Basisinkomen from both Guaranteed minimum income and Basic income, claiming that the site has no English content (which is untrue), while leaving another, fully non-English site be. Guido den Broeder (talk) 07:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Does NOT appear any English content on the homepage, so can understand why it's been removed. Where is the English content found on the site please? SunCreator (talk) 13:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Specifically, at Studie/FRISBI, the basic income simulator which is unique material and entirely in English. Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Where specifically please, with URL? All I found was this mainly in dutch. SunCreator (talk) 19:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Click on the download link. :-) Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but if you are expecting anyone to download anything and count that as English then you are mistaken. SunCreator (talk) 19:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

You've lost me here. Guido den Broeder (talk) 20:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

You have been saying that this has English content and therefore it's removal as not being English was incorrect but if the best you can come up with is a download and not web content then I agree with user:Fram that it's not English and should at best be said that it's an other language site or otherwise removed from the links. SunCreator (talk) 22:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, going with the flow: language indicated. Only listed on Basic income; external links on Guaranteed minimum income have been reduced to a single one. Guido den Broeder (talk) 00:08, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

(undent)Non-english sources are allowable. Non-english external links are not a good idea. BI and GMI should both have the BIEN websites, which is international and has English content, but a link to a site that is in dutch and only relevant to one country (and is tenuously notable and relevant anyway - the AFD outcome was no consensus, not keep) is not a good option. Fram's removal was a very good idea and the link should be removed from all pages except the VBI. WLU (talk) 15:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The content of the Nieuwsbrief is often enough non-local. Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

RE: Template:Drugs for obstructive airway diseases

Hello. Could you please edit Template:Drugs for obstructive airway diseases, because I do not know which group of beta₂-adrenergic agonists which indacaterol should belong. Do you know where it should belong? :-) Carlo Banez (talk) 12:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

 Done Easy enough to look up at PubMed- ultra LABA David Ruben ^Talk 22:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

AN/I review

As the review got archived after several admins critisized your approach, I assume that the article ban is off. Guido den Broeder (talk) 07:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Guido den Broeder

Hello, some discussions and actions you were involved in are used as evidence in the RfC/U I started. Fram (talk) 12:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Robotje

David, could you take a look at this edit by user:Robotje, who seems intent on continuing to harass me? [1] Note that by removing the source, he violates my attribution rights. Guido den Broeder (talk) 15:50, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

A heads-up, GDB has put up an unblock request and seems to think that you have indicated somewhere one of his reverts was for vandalism, not over content. I don't know if you want to disabuse him of this notion or not, but you should probably know about it. WLU (talk) 10:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Mentoring @ Dutch Wikipedia

In respons to your question asked on Oscars talkpage, the answer is yes that Guido is being mentored on the Dutch Wikipedia. This mentoring (in Dutch) can be found here, while a summary of the decisions made by the mentor can be found here. Mentoring Guido was instated after this decision by the Dutch Arbitration Committee. Regards Silver Spoon 05:39, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I am no longer active on nl:Wikipedia. Guido den Broeder (talk) 08:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

double mentoring: why not

i am guido's mentor at nl.wikipedia since sep'07. he has in fact been trying his best time and again to avoid being mentored in different ways, his current attempt being a request for a permanent ban which he supposes whould cancel the mentoring. you said that mentoring on 2 projects wouldn't make sense, but i fail to see see why: would you perhaps suppose he be mentored by one person on 2 projects? since guido now states he is "no longer active on nl:Wikipedia" (see just above here) (check his contribs on nl), again: why not? good luck and all the best, oscar 08:43, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Clarification: User:Oscar believes that a 'mentor' can decide to keep that position against the wishes of the user, apparently even after an account has been closed(!), and regardless of abundant criticism from other users. Here, as well as on nl:Wikipedia, I find that unacceptable. Guido den Broeder (talk) 09:08, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the idea is that one mentors the person, not the account... Tdevries (talk) 09:54, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Policies across projects can vary, so mentoring by the same person on two wikis isn't necessarily the best idea; I think an admin mentor would be best due to the implied knowledge of policies and ability to negotiate disagreements. WLU (talk) 14:57, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

@Tdevries: I think the "mentor" is as guilty of COI as Guido. The only difference is that the person behind the account of the "mentor" may not be named. You speak Dutch, search nl:Wikipedia:Relevantie for which group of teachers at tertiary education are deemed relevant per se and find out which account added that clause (as a hint: you protected the subpage with that selfpromotion). Erik Warmelink (talk) 00:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry can't read Dutch at all (although can guess at a lot of the words which can be similar to English). Babel Fish (website) translation just moved over from Altavista to Yahoo and temporarily seems unable handle that page :-( David Ruben ^Talk 00:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

In short (and I have to be short, unless I get blocked by "accident" by oscar again, or by his friends from IRC because I violated oscars privacy), oscars profession in real life is the only teaching job which makes the holder of that job "relevant" for nl.wikipedia. Oscar added that clause, Tdevries protected the page. Oscar & friends managed to drive Guido from nl.wiki (in my opinion because anyone with a cum laude for his/her thesis is a threat to the pokemon, soccer and television crowd). That was not enough, so the mob started vandalising Melody Amber chess tournament on en.wiki, because some of the tournement books were written by Guido (and someone on wikipedia who has written books and a thesis instead of making a fancy signature is awfully threatening to their self-esteem). Well, that's not short at all. I guess I will spend less time on nl.wiki. Erik Warmelink (talk) 01:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Erik Warmelink seems to suggest that I protected the relevance-page on nl.wiki because of the addition of Oscar to "support" Oscar in his "self promotion". The edithistory of the page clearly shows otherwise, the only reason I protected the page was because of an ongoing editwar. No more, no less. Furthermore, I am quite surprised to find a comment on one of my actions on nl.wikipedia on the talkpage of someone else on a different project. If you (Erik) have comments about my actions as a sysop @ nl.wikipedia, please use my talkpage on that particular project and/or the administrators notice board overthere and/or the arbcom overthere in case you might find the reaction to your comment/question/request (which you never made before, anywhere, in this case!) unsatisfactionary.

The only reason for my small comment here about "the user, not the account" was that Guido seems to have the opinion that the mentorate only applies to a certain account he is using and does not apply if he uses another account. This seems a bit strange to me, it is more likely that a mentorate (and not Guido's in particular) applies to the person, whatever account he is using. And it would not be unlogical and/or impossible IMHO to extend a mentorate to other Wikimedia projects aswell. But if a mentorate is needed here,, on this project, is entirely the decission of the en.wikipedia community or "the powers that be" overhere. Tdevries (talk) 18:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I have only one account at each Wikipedia. Please don't try to think for me, thanks. Guido den Broeder (talk) 21:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Aphthous ulcers

Hi David,

I ended up re-writing the treatment section, thus, which deleted your reference to UK treatment options. I basically removed everything that didn't have a source, unfortunately that included the text you inserted here. My WP:PROVEIT approach tends to be a bit scorched earth, I think most of the information is still there in a more general form. I'll be adding a bit of text back, but after that edit I think I'm done; feel free to re-insert. I ended up with an edit conflict and over-wrote (worst collaborator ever!), I don't know if you prefer my more generic version, or your more specific one. Please feel free to expand if you'd like. WLU (talk) 17:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm done, earth is scorched, feel free to replace. WLU (talk) 17:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

No problem, good tidy up. Readded topical steroids and local anaesthetics with refs provided after the "spur" of your WP:PROVEIT :-) I've copied your posting and a fuller reply than this to Talk:Aphthous ulcer David Ruben ^Talk 03:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hyperemesis gravidarum

Well, now, I'd think the need for continuing IV hydration and feeding would depend on whether you were really treating HG or bulimia, among other things. A pregnant woman who is sticking her fingers down her throat isn't exactly going to tell the world she's doing that, or necessarily even be in a mental state to understand that the vomiting is self-manufactured. See PMID 14996962 for such a case study. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the article link - interesting case and a reminder to think more widely than the initial apparently "obvious" diagnosis, especially in pregnancy. However that case report would seem to be an example of why a patient should not be sent home with a PICC line for home treatment - she would have malnourished herself/baby to a critical state if she had not remained on the ward and her bulimia observed... hopefully suitable sources can be found for those fact-tags :-)David Ruben ^Talk 18:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

If you go to full nutrition by PICC line, you can't really vomit up all the food and water, because it was never in your stomach to begin with. A PICC line at home therefore seems like a reasonable stopgap measure when you are worried about malnutrition, even if it does nothing to address the underlying problem. It would certainly be better than doing nothing for the patient who refuses to remain in hospital. In a few cases, it might even be "curative": Consider self-induced vomiting prompted by subjective dysphagia, and the potentially beneficial effect of eliminating the need to swallow anything at all.

But I fully agree that it would be best to discover and treat the specific problem. (Now back to the grindstone...) WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Beetstra

David, could you pay some attention to the posts of user:Beetstra who is presently targeting me both here [2] and on meta [3], insinuating that I am the same person as some Scandinavian account? Thanks, Guido den Broeder (talk) 12:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, GDB, please discuss the points/edits, and not the editor... I see though you've (subsequetly) had a perfectly sensible discussion on wikimedia and Beetstra has released some of the links (if I understand correctly).

re COI/N, comments on past links and COI reached a pause on RfC, and I agree probably same now approapriate for COI/N (unless there should be any future concerns). "If a week is a long time in politics, what is a month?" and so edits by early April now of far less importance than future contributions :-) David Ruben ^Talk 18:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh dear

Thanks for expanding on my brief comment here. I wasn't sure I trusted myself to say anything more involved as it would have contained an unprodcutive degree of sarcasm and incivility. But that's what being part of the "medical mafia" does to you. :) MastCell ^Talk 19:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

User: Daharja re sodium valproate edit

Hi David,

I'm new to this talk business so please forgive any incorrect usage of the forum.

I believe that the section "safety in pregnancy" is warranted on the sodium valproate wiki page. Wikipedia is designed to provide not just medical info, but info pertinent to all issues regarding to the subject in question - in this case, sodium valproate.

I also speak from experience that wikipedia is often one of the only places that a layperson can go to get information easily that may not come directly from the medical fraternity. Although it does contain biases and inconsistencies, it's generall a good and corerct source. I use wikipedia for a whole range of subjects, and find it is generally correct.

It could be the case that the information on the sodium valproate case could alert a woman to risks associated with being on the drug during pregnancy. The standard information given from neurologists (at least in Australia, where I hail from), is that there are no known risks associated with autism. This is the information that is given to all women contemplating pregnancy, and was the information given to me. I now have an autistic son. Had I known that risks were associated with this drug (risks that are now confirmed by the Australian Epilepsy Pregnancy Database, but still not told to women considering pregnancy and that are not listed in the inserts on the drug packaging), I would not have used epilim during pregnancy.

There is the possibility that something as simple as Wikipedia could make a difference to a woman's choice of anti-convulsant medication. A woman may trust her heurologist when he says epilim is fine, but just check the net to be sure. Providing the info that there is a class action involving the drug on the wiki page about the drug is relevant, and belongs there. It may just prevent another autism case as well.

Thus I believe that to remove the information is to remove valuable, relevant and appropriate information. I have therefore reinstated the information regarding the class action.

Regards,

Daharja

Thanks, although I disagree. I've copied your posting and added a full reply to Talk:Sodium valproate#News about action taken against this drug in UK (I try and follow WP:1RR). David Ruben ^Talk 03:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi David,

Thanks,

Cheers,

Daharja. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daharja (talk • contribs) 04:05, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

More here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Whilst I would agree that the comment at Autism#Causes about affect of many (?all) teratogens having effect in 1st 12 weeks is a suitable catch-all, given that this possible cause is a tiny minority compared to the overall number of cases of autism, I am tempted to suggest some mention of a few illustrative example worst-offending as not being unfair. A big however though, teratogen is linked in that sentance and Teratogen#Teratogenic agents lists out a very large number of agents (medications and otherwise) and it would need a reliable secondary source to suggest what might be the most improtant of these (autism article would seem to suggest this not known) - so adding just valproic acid might not be best example and undue weight to so suggest. Therefore I'ld agree leave it as it now is :-) David Ruben ^Talk 14:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Repeat case

Could you please look at this: [4] . This user was very generous with these links before: User_talk:68.35.21.191. These links are not bad, leave them or remove? --VanBurenen (talk) 10:20, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for heads up - there is generosity of linking and then again outright persisting spamming which is disruptive to article building (on basis WP:NOT#NOTLINK for external links). Linking to homepage for a clinic is spamming. Janet Travell is mentioned in the article and citations suitably given. That some clinic (MyoRehab in link www.aims-llc.org/ claims to be a national institute, whilst in www.myorehab.net/articles/article-archive.htm states "a treatment center") mentions her as basis for their technique, does not make the home page an expansion on the topic of trigger points itself. Finally given the same IP's past repeated horrendous spamming of the link across multiple articles, addition of the same link back into this article is the action of a single-purpose or COI IP and seems grounds to revert and reblock. If the IP were to discuss their edit, rather than soley add external links to wikipedia, then a dialogue might be started. Similarly if another editor wishes to reinsert the links then review of the link under WP:EL (which I feel they fail) might be had. David Ruben ^Talk 00:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I've requested the urls be blocked by User talk:XLinkBot/RevertList. David Ruben ^Talk 01:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

And they are back again [5]. I reverted this time. --VanBurenen (talk) 17:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - as sockpuppet or at least meatpuppet (which counts as same thing), I've indef blocked them too and I'll seek perminant block of web addresses as multiple new and old sockpuppet accounts being used for this.David Ruben ^Talk 01:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

 Done Both web links now blocked from wikipedia David Ruben ^Talk 03:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Anti-diabetic drug references

Hi there. Arcadian removed two references that weren't tied to the text, but they were actually there to support the article's general content (i.e. no specific statement). You're absolutely right about the section formatting—I didn't notice the nested headings. I'll go reformat them per Wikipedia:CS#Maintaining a "References" section in addition to "Notes" :) Thanks for the message, Fvasconcellos (t·c) 18:28, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Spam-blacklisting

I've moved it to MediaWiki:Spam-blacklisting fyi. cheers--Hu12 (talk) 10:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Image:DH thymus.jpg listed for deletion

David- I've removed the images with the watermarks. I agree they clouded the image from the view I wanted to share on Wiki. I will repost the images without the watermark, but probably not on as many pages. Sorry for the mistake. --LearnAnatomy (talk) 06:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Wow, many thanks for so swift and positive response, IfD proposal withdrawn :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Guido den Broeder

There's no reason to protect that talk page simply because he cleared all messages once. Please unprotect it. -- Ned Scott 03:36, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for request that single clearing once is insufficient reason to protect, I'm persuaded by you & your request and I shall unprotect and trust to his leaving the sanction notices for the remaining 5+ days of his block. David Ruben ^Talk 03:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and I hope he uses good judgment and leaves them there as well. I'll try to keep an eye on it. -- Ned Scott 04:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I did not know that such a rule existed. It's not on the template; where can I find it? Guido den Broeder (talk) 23:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Users are of course free to archive old material from their talk pages, or remove sanction notices which nolonger apply; as you have now done :-) However, as I understand it, noticies should generally remain in place for the duration of a block. David Ruben ^Talk 01:07, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Please do not enforce on others your own made-up rules and interpretations, this is quite disruptive. Guido den Broeder (talk) 07:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Guido, please remain civil and assume good faith. This is not some made-up rule, but part of Wikipedia:User Page#Removal of comments, warnings, namely "Important exceptions may include declined unblock requests (while blocks are still in effect) or confirmed sockpuppetry notices. In this case it may be legitimate to keep a user from gaming the system. Such templates are intended not only to communicate with the user in question, but to display important information about blocks and sockpuppetry." (to be clear: in this case, it's about a block, there is no sockpuppetry involved). It is understandable that you were not aware of this, but you should not accuse people of making up rules when they are in fact acting according to our guidelines and common practice. You may notice that Ned Scott above agrees that the notices should stay, but that he only disagrees with the talk page protection, which shoulonly have been done after due explanation and repeated removal of the block notice and unblock requests. Fram (talk) 07:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I did not remove 'a declined unblock request', thanks. You also left out the key part of this guideline section: Users should note that restoring talk page warnings is not a listed exception to the three-revert rule. Guido den Broeder (talk) 08:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Guido, you did remove multiple declined unblock requests [6], after which David Ruben protected your talk page, and Ned Scott started this section. Furthermore, David restored these declined unblock requests once, so your "key part" about the three revert rule is completely irrelevant. Please stop this wikilawyering and stay with the facts. Fram (talk) 09:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I did not remove 'multiple declined unblock requests' either, thanks. What I removed was the block notice PLUS closed unblock requests (and not an open unblock request, what David insinuated in his revert summary), which cannot possibly lead to the 'gaming the system' that this guideline section is looking to prevent. Will you please stop these accusations? Guido den Broeder (talk) 09:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

You removed three declined unblock requests at once. Three = multiple... Each of these had in bold "Do not remove this unblock request while you are blocked." The edit summary by David stated "rvb - generally block/sanction notices should remain at least until they expire, afterwhich free to remove. Proceedural issue was your edit warring, ie you being disruptive, block reviewed by 3 admins". There is no insinuation there that you removed an open unblock request. What are you actually trying to achieve by denying these things? Fram (talk) 09:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

A template is not a guideline, see Template_talk:Unblock#Removing_a_request. Guido den Broeder (talk) 10:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Of course a template is not a guideline, a template is a tool. But this template (the unblock request) is the template that is specified in the Wikipedia:Appealing a block policy. Since you just can't stop wikilawyering and are wasting my time, I'll probably no longer participate in this useless discussion. I urge you to seriously reconsider your way of editing and discussing here. Fram (talk) 10:30, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you very much for your message. I will defi stay here and be a part of wikiproject medicine. regards Studentmed (talk) 01:21, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The LGBTProject and its relation to HIVAIDS

A debate is going here which could use input from editors from outside our project. Thankyou. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 12:17, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

MAlvis

David, could you have a look at the work of MAlvis (talk · contribs) and my comments on his talkpage? I feel I am about to lose my cool with this editor. Time and time again I have had to ask him not to WP:WEIGHT and WP:SOAPBOX on issues of cholesterol and atherosclerosis, but I feel the response is not quite what I was hoping for. JFW | T@lk 09:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm having similar issues with Pdeitiker (talk · contribs), mainly on Talk:Coeliac disease. Again, your opinion would be appreciated. JFW | T@lk 21:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

BL

Hi david, hope you don't mind, but I jumped in on a request you were handling, MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist#aboutmyarea.co.uk.2Fkt20, and declined it. After looking through the requestors contribs, I blocked the account as an advert-only account, and felt continuing the debate for the links inclusion would be moot, as the acount could no loger reply.--Hu12 (talk) 12:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

No problem - had only looked at the site not the requestor - a useful learning point :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:00, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

pmc= in cite journal

Thanks for adding that pmc= support to Template:Cite journal. I made a suggestion for further improvement in Template talk:Cite journal #Suggestion for improvement for new pmc= parameter; can you please follow up there if you have the time? Eubulides (talk) 21:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Entirely agree - if but can get some consensus to do this, I'll happily code :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

My talkpage

Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors, which you did not on User talk:Guido den Broeder. Assume that they are here to improve rather than harm Wikipedia. Do not frivolously accuse other users from making threats and insinuate bad faith and that they will act badly in the future. Guido den Broeder (talk) 07:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Issuing a warning is not a threat and your reciprocal tagging seems "inflexible demeanor". Yor article talk page message was, IMHO, inappropriate particularly as it was on the same article for which you had been edit warring and blocked. I therefore issued an advisory warning and what was meant as a helpful suggestion as to how best to now proceed in contributing to the article (given that you feel there are still issues to be addressed) - you are free to take or leave advice as your see fit, but per policy previously highlighted to yourself, further edit warring risks "escalating blocks, and decreasing latitude for uncooperative behavior". David Ruben ^Talk 18:03, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I have not been editwarring, thanks. Not in all my time on Wikipedia. Guido den Broeder (talk) 18:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

(Sigh) Untrue - as per Blocklog for "Guido den Broeder" you have edit warred twice with resulting upheld blocks:

• 2 May for 48hours, x1 unblock request declined [7]
• 30 May for 7 days, 3 requests for unblock declined and final admin stating "...your contributions to various Wikipedia articles have been of a disruptive nature... two instances of edit warring and inappropriate, non-constructive reverting ... I uphold the original block here: it is apparent that it is justified, to prevent further disruption" [8]

Hence twice edit warring blocked with 4 different other admins reviewing. David Ruben ^Talk 19:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Said admin had no response when I asked for evidence, thanks. It's easy to claim that someone is editwarring, etc., but claiming so does not make it true. Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:50, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Dave, you want me to remove the warning template? I think it's frivolous. WLU (talk) 20:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer & comment, but elimination of template would remove the context of the subsequent thread postings. As I think this thread is current, best leave all of it here for now - it'll get archived eventually. Feel free to comment at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Guido den Broeder David Ruben ^Talk 20:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I've given up commenting there - it's a complete waste of time to talk to GDB and he's already ramping up escalating blocks. The arguments have generally settled on agreement from most editors that his edits and understanding of policies, guidelines and mores and GDB has consistently rejected any suggestions and failed to change his behaviour. He'll be blocked for his actions, not because of the RFC and I've said everything I need/want to say there already. WLU (talk) 20:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

And yet, you keep adding these disrespectful comments everywhere. Do you really think this is helping the situation? Guido den Broeder (talk) 21:32, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to make me eat my words You are most welcome to prove me wrong, something which would be of benefit to yourself and wikipedia. WLU (talk) 02:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Task force recruitment

Hi David! I know you are a member of many WikiProjects and watch all sorts of medicine articles... but thought I'd see if you were interested in one more. I've proposed a task force to provide a place to discuss the articles on methods of birth control. If you're interested, please add your name to the proposal: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Task forces#Reproductive medicine. Lyrl^Talk _C 00:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

NHS edits

We've briefly conversed on email before, and sorry to poke you again, but it would be good if I could see my version of the NHS page from so long ago as soon as possible, as I'm away for a substantial period of time sporadically over the next few weeks. Thanks, RHB - Talk 22:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)