Talk:Transistor

Confusing

I have found this article very unorganized and confusing. While explaining that Transistors are electronic switches, and that are several types, in addition to the fact that they assemble into logic gates, etc., nowhere is there a simple encyclopedic description of what a transistor actually is in terms of physical functionality.

There are claims that it underlies the basis of modern electronics, but no elaboration as to how. As such I find the article overall very unhelpful from a novice/informational standpoint. Commissar Mo (talk) 10:30, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

History

Talks related to Transistor history and its etymology were moved to talk:Transistor history fixed apostrophe abuse --CanOfWorms (talk) 14:51, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Archiving

Discusion about valve sound, cost of transistor in $ and many outdated talks archived. talk:Transistor/archive#1

Understanding concepts

Substantial gain

Someone asked in the article "what doees substantial gain mean"? I believe the answer is that it means gain that is greater than 1 by an amount sufficient to convince the experimenters that they are observing actual active amplification. It can be voltage ratio or a current ratio or a power ratio, but in general gain is the ratio of output to input, and you don't get gain greater than 1 from electronic components that are passive, or not active. Dicklyon 21:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the word "substantial" should be removed then. It's ambiguous and understandably leaves the reader wondering, "how substantial"? -- mattb @ 2006-11-12T21:29Z

What you put in its place to indicate "enough gain that we were sure it was working"? Dicklyon 21:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

How about "above-unity gain"? A number of things would work better than "substantial". -- mattb @ 2006-11-12T21:37Z

Or you might want to quote John B. Johnson who used the term "substantial" in decribing his experiment on making a Lilienfeld device. See the section on field effect transistor. Dicklyon 21:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Whatever, if you really want to keep the word I won't make any fuss. I personally believe it is not the best word to use here because it can connotate a large quantity rather than simply meaning considerable/significant/not trivial (though these, too sometimes have the "large" connotation) depending on how the reader takes it. However, I'm not currently on a mission to rewrite this article (my current mission is Computer if you want to take a look), so I'm not too interested in diction debates. :) -- mattb @ 2006-11-12T21:58Z

Bipolar Name

Currently the BJT para says that they are so called because they use both majority and minority carriers. Minority carriers are unwanted leakage (ref Amos). Majority carriers (holes & electrons) are the bits you want. This is what is said about the name from some place on the interweb: "because the controlled current must go through two types of semiconductor material: P and N." I think this is right. - CPES 22:13, 27 April 2006 (UTC) (80.177.169.33)

I don't really understand what you say here. In a bipolar transistor, conduction is done using both type of carriers, electron and holes. Which is minority and which is majority only depends on the type of semiconductor material. I can't see any relation to the leakage current. Have I missed something? - CyrilB 18:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

It's too simplified. Actually, see, Bipolar_junction_transistor#Basics_of_transistor_operation, or how it's explained in Russian Wikipedia: Bipolar transistor:

In active mode, voltage is applied to transistor so, that its emitter junction is shifted in forward direction (is open) and collector junction is shifted in reverse direction. For clear explanation, let's consider NPN transistor; all the reasonings are valid for the case of PNP transistor with substituting the word "electrons" for "holes" (and conversely) and also reversing signs of all voltages. In NPN transistor, electrons, the majority carriers in emitter, pass through open emitter-base junction in the region of base. Part of this electrons recombinates with majority carriers in base (holes), part of electrons diffuses back into emitter. However, due to the base is made very thin and (very?) low doped, the main part of electrons, injected from emitter diffuses into region of collector. Strong electric field of reversly shifted collector junction captures electrons (note that they are minority carriers in the base, so the junction is open for them) and carries them in collector. So, collector current practically equals emitter current, except for small loss for recombination in the base, which produces base current (I_e=I_b+I_c). Coefficient α, relating emitter current and collector current (I_c=α I_e) is called "transfer coefficient of emitter current"(????!). The value of coefficient α equals 0.9 — 0.999; the more the coefficient the better the transistor. This coefficient poorly depends on voltages at collector-base and at base-emitter. So in the wide range of operating voltages collector current is directly proportional to base current, the coefficient of this proportionality being equal to β=α/(1-α)=(10-1000). Thus, changing low current of base the considerably larger collector current may be managed.

ellol 22:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Semi-Conductor vs. Conductor

On an atomic level, the difference between a conductor and a semi-conductor is in the number of electrons. Every atom has several orbitals, or paths that an electron follows, going around the nucleus of the atom. Each orbital has a certain maximum capacity of electrons that can follow that path. When an orbital that can only hold five electrons has four electrons and an electric charge gives it two more, it will try to pass one of them on to the next orbital or the next atom. A conductor atom has all of its orbitals full, making it pass on charges easily and without the loss of any electrons. A semi-conductor does not have all of its orbitals full which means that unless a certain minimum charge is sent through it, it will not pass the electrons to the next atom.

My alternative simplification would be that...

On an atomic level, the difference between insulator, semi-conductor and conductor is the energy required to promote an electron into the conduction band. In conductors, no energy is required, each atom is already contributng at least one electron to a "sea" of electrons which slosh about freely in the material. In insulators, a very high energy is required, typically the material has all electrons strongly bound to the atoms and unavailable to move. In semi-conductors, the band gap of the material is such that thermal energy is sufficient that some electrons become available for conduction. The inclusion of impurities or doping with atoms with a different valency provides sites which donate extra electrons or holes (a lack of an electron where one would be expected) to modify the conductivity of the material.

NeilUK 09:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Band gap

"The band gap is highly temperature dependent, decreasing with increasing temperature." part erased: the energy gap is always the same. What changes with temperature is the probability to cross the gap. User: 129.13.186.1

The above correction is from tran history and makes a very good point. I have read that the band gap varies with temperature. It also says this on Wiki band gap, so this needs to be sorted. I have changed the "Semiconductor material" sub section to cover this aspect. CPES 12:38, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The band gap varies with temperature, but very little, and this is an almost insignificant contributor to changing conductivity. As stated above, the most significant factor is the ability of the carriers to cross the gap. Phil Holmes 15:34, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Proportional current?

Im worried about the phrase 'allows a proportional current to flow'. In fact the current is not proportional to the voltage in a BJT but prop to the exp of the voltage. So this lead para needs rewording. Any suggestions?--Light current 01:09, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I rewrote that sentence. Snafflekid 05:28, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

The basic problem, which is currently not emphasised, is that BJTs and FETs operate in different ways. You push some current into the base of a BJT and more current flows thru the E/C terminals. On the other hand you put a voltage between the source and gate of a FET and it conducts a proportional current between the source and drain. In both cases this current flows regardless of the e/c or s/d voltage (provided that the e/c or s/d voltages are above saturation). Simple as that. CPES 02:05, 24 April 2006 (UTC) (80.177.169.33)

Not exactly. BJT transconductance (ratio of C-E current to B-E voltage) is exponential, whereas FET transconductance is parabolic. Neither one is really proporional in input voltage. Sure, BJT collector current is more or less proportional to base current (beta), but it's highly variable based on temperature, current, and even individual device. BJT circuits are usually not designed based on a specific value of beta, you can't depend on it. One a specific die, two devices will have the same beta, but it's hard to control. Conversely BJT circuits are designed based on transconductance, which you can depend on. FETs are a real problem, their transconductance can vary by a factor of two or more for a given device. Take a look at the specs for the venerable MPF102. IDss and Vgs(off) vary widely. As for pushing a current into G-S of an FET, you can use your imagination ;-) Madhu 22:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Transistor biasing-The most basic question

Why is the base-emitter junction of the transistor forword biased and the collector-base junction reverse biased?Why not the other way round?

If the BJT is used in the forward active mode (which is almost always the case) the collector voltage is higher than the base voltage and the base voltage is higher than the emitter voltage. For an N-P-N you get the condition you mentioned. If the collector is pulled low enough it will become forward biased also, this is called saturation. Snafflekid 17:22, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

If you biased the B-E and C-B junctions as mentioned by the original (anonymous) poster, the collector and emitter terminals would be reversed (more or less). This does work, but not very well. In normal configuration, if the B-E junction is not forward biased, no current will flow into the base and no transistor action will result. Transistor action is not necessarily intuitive, that's part of the reason why BJT discovery was more experimental than theoretical. FETs are more intuitive, but fabrication was harder in the early days. Madhu 23:46, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, in an npn BJT, the emitter is usually heavily doped n-type compared to the collector. This is to optimize the forward-active operation of the BJT. So, for a non-optimized BJT (which are rare), your question would be valid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.225.195.234 (talk) 03:29, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Needs Simpler Explanations

Not everyone who comes to this article is as technically informed as the authors. It's important that this and other technical and scientific articles include basic information and explanations for the less informed. After all, that's what they're here for---to get informed. Tmangray 08:10, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Exactly what is unclear? Is the lead paragraph OK? If not, try to fix it. If something later is unclear, then please point it out or try to fix it. The complexity is bound to increase beyond what nontechnical readers can handle at some point, but if you point out at what point it needs simplification, perhaps it can be improved. And of course we will all agree, I think, that it is inevitable than in an article on a technical topic "Not everyone who comes to this article is as technically informed as the authors." That doesn't mean we're not sympathetic to the problem. Dicklyon 08:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

The intro looks fine to me. — Omegatron 06:19, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought so, too. But then I looked again, with an eye to whether you and I are more part of the problem than of the solution. Perhaps so. So I attempted a simplification, at least by moving a few of the less "simple" concepts to a second paragraph. See what you think; hopefully I didn't lose anything. Dicklyon 07:05, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

The OP's concern is a lot easier to voice than to solve. I've tried for a while to think of a one-liner that simply and adequately explains what a transistor is and/or does. I don't really think there is such a thing. Transistors can be simple devices, but the principles that govern their operation are not readily accessible to the lay man (high school level electromagnetics are a minimum requirement, basic quantum mechanics and solid-state physics are preferable). Complicating things further is the fact that devices which work in very different ways (say, a BJT and a FET) are all lumped into the category of "transistor". The lead of this article as it currently stands is decent, but I'm not too sure if I like the whole "small signal controlling larger signal" general assertion. I think that this is usually true from an application point of view, but I can think of counterexamples (e.g. follower stages in amplifiers). It's on the right track, but I think it could be improved some. I'll look back through some of my semiconductor physics textbooks to see if they offer any decent terse "definition" of a transistor (I'm doubtful). -- mattb @ 2006-12-25T22:12Z

No such luck... All of my texts avoid actually defining a transistor and just start talking about how they work. I looked at a copy of Britannica, and it adopts a purely functional definition of the transistor. Rather than attempting to explain at the outset "what transistors do", it starts with "what they are used for". I think this might be a very good approach. Pursuant to this methodology, I think an adaptation of the first sentence in the second paragraph might be good. Let's try to think of the most general categories of application transistors can be used for... Off the top of my head, I'm coming up with signal amplification and control (switching, voltage regulating). I'm a little hesitant about including oscillators so explicitly, since an oscillator is much more a certain circuit topology than a device. I realize that this is somewhat an artificial distinction that could just as well be applied to any use of a transistor, but I think it's much easier to make the argument that a transistor can, on its own, behave as an amplifier or a switch than an oscillator. Anyway, let me know what you think. -- mattb @ 2006-12-25T22:34Z

I think the concept of a small signal controlling a larger one is fundamental, and it certainly does apply to a follower, which is a current amplifier. Plenty of good simple definitions are available to draw on if we need more inspiration: [1]. Dicklyon 02:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a controlled valve. — Omegatron 07:43, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a solid-state alternative to a controlled valve (using the British meaning of valve). Dicklyon 16:16, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

You could go that route, but I don't think it's a particularly useful comparison for introductory purposes. Someone who doesn't have a good grasp of transistors will not likely understand valves (tubes) well enough to benefit from the one-liner. If we're talking about the hydraulic analogy of circuits, yick... Let's not go there, please. I'm still not entirely sold on the "small signal controlling larger signal" statement. I certainly see the logic behind saying that, but I'm not convinced that it's the best way of summarizing transistor operation. I don't think it neatly covers the switching role of transistors, and I still think it's awkward to apply it to unity or sub-unity amp stages. I feel that a terse statement to the effect that "transistors are semiconductor devices used for electrical signal amplification and control" would be a nice way to cover all the bases. If you folks really want to stick with the small signal/large signal explanation, however, I guess that's okay too. -- mattb @ 2006-12-27T21:12Z

The opening is still vague and obtuse. Given that transistors replaced vacuum tubes, is it fair to say that they perform the same function? If so, perhaps you can use some of the narrative from the vacuum tube description, which is clearer to me: "In electronics, a vacuum tube, electron tube (inside North America), thermionic valve, or just valve (elsewhere, especially in Britain), is a device used to amplify, switch, otherwise modify, or create an electrical signal by controlling the movement of electrons..." 144.226.230.36 (talk) 21:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Clear lay presentation

This article seems poorly organized. Above all, there is no early, clear description of the basic mechanism by which, for example, NPN and PNP transistors work, suitable for a lay person. This is not complicated to sketch out (one could just choose one of the types for simplicity's sake) and would make the article much more accessible. Hgilbert (talk) 12:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Physical layout of a transistor on IC

Please note also that all of bipolar PNP and NPN and JFET do not have graphics or scheme displaying physical layout of the transistor. I can try to do something according to that what is in my University textbook, but I will not do it w/o consulting others.

A simple, basic layout, even 3D, cannot hurt the matter anyway. -- Mtodorov 69 13:42, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Images & Symbols

Does anyone have a copyright free picture(s) of transistors we could use at the top of the page to replace the rather grey looking one.?--Light current 17:25, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Here are some more: commons:Category:Transistors — Omegatron 18:02, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Replace lead pic with better one. This is still not a very good pic and we need a better one if we are to submit article as a featured article.--Light current 18:28, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I added one I just took. --agr 20:43, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Thats better!--Light current 20:58, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

A picture of the 'chip' inside the transistor would be nice too.

I just did a Google Search. There r bout 67,000 images. But not sure how many r copy right free. I found this [2] much better. Most of the images can be used on wikipedia. --Electron Kid 02:34, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Can we get some close-up pictures, like on [3]? We could ask manufacturers, as they did. — Omegatron 22:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess we could, though I have my doubts about the utility of such things... Most optical photographs of functional transistors (including the ones you linked, I think) are just going to show the top metal layers or contacts. SEM photographs might be slightly more interesting. -- mattb @ 2006-11-09T00:07Z

P.S. - I can take plenty of optical microphotos of various forms of transistors... Getting an SEM image might be more difficult, though. -- mattb @ 2006-11-09T00:10Z

Most optical photographs of functional transistors (including the ones you linked, I think) are just going to show the top metal layers or contacts.

So what? Most people can never see even that. — Omegatron 16:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Pictures

Currently there are two images of thru hole trans, both essentially showing the same thing. The original image (with tape measure) is best, because it shows a progressive size range and indicates scale. Suggest image presently in intro be removed and "tape measure" tran image be moved to intro. An image of surface mount trans would compliment the thru hole image: there once was one but it seems to have got lost in the major revision of tran page. (nice to see the better tran symbols image has been reinstated: but still no IGFET symbols in it) - CPES 20:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC) (80.177.169.33)

Any chance someone could check norm to put correct symbils into page. Quick check of other language versions showed pretty much every use different symbols.

Types

This section is becoming more a laundry list than an informative and useful bit of prose. I don't see much utility in enumerating every major variation of transistor. I think it ought to be trimmed way down and just cover the three basic classes; FET, bipolar, and experimental. -- mattb @ 2006-10-20T03:06Z

Good point. KIS is always best. CPES 23:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I think that a distinction needs to be made here between distinctly different operating types (as in bipolar, FET, UJT, etc.) and differences in manufacturing processes, which have had very little relevance to me as a _user_ of the parts over the years. At least split the list of types into two areas maybe? --Rtellason (talk) 06:56, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Photo transistors

Now that the weird "photo fet" has been pointed out, we really need a section on photo-transistors to explain a bit about how these things work, and why the "photo fet" is a sort of bastard stepchild of a photo-transistor (OK, maybe not in those terms). Here's one explanation. Saying the light makes the FET conduct is bit too misleading, in my opinion. Dicklyon 15:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Here's another that explains the photo-fet as a combination photo-diode and fet. Dicklyon 16:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Gracious that second book looks pretty old... The wording makes it seem like it was written before the interaction of photons with semiconductors was well understood. Anyway, as I've seen the term used, "phototransistor" can include a lot of fairly different devices. The only real constant is that there's some sort of quantum interaction between photons and EHPs going on in a semiconductor. Beyond that you could be using a heterojunction system, a MOS system, a traditional bipolar system, etc. That's the reason I objected to the phrasing of the added text; it suggested to me that phototransistors all use photon-related RG current in exactly the same way, which isn't true. -- mattb @ 2006-10-30T16:16Z

Yeah, 1989; ancient history; oops, no, I made a light-sensing NMOS chip in 1980; Chamberlain did in 1968; of course, the photosensitive parts were the isolation diodes, not the transistors. My point is that in the photo-fet, the light doesn't make the transistor conduct, or not in a way analogous to the inherent transistor action on photocurrent that you get in a BJT. A few words to explain the two, and their difference, could be useful. Dicklyon 16:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Reason for reversion

The following two paras were reverted out of the tran page with the edit comment below:

Photo BJT

"Bipolar transistors can be made to conduct by light (photons) as well as current. Devices designed for this purpose have a transparent window in the package and are called phototransistors."

Photo FET

"Like bipolar transistors, FETs can be made to conduct by light (photons) as well as voltage. Devices designed for this purpose have a transparent window in the package and are called phototransistors."

Edit Comment

"phototransistors don't "conduct" photons (or voltage, for that matter); the photons cause RG current... Plus the effect isn't limited to bipolar transistors"

I can't understand the edit comment (putting aside the photo FET issue for the moment). Neither paragraph states that phototransistors "conduct" photons or voltage and neither paragraph says that the effect is limited to bipolar transistors... or am I missing something? CPES 02:56, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I didn't notice the "by" in there when I reverted. My bad. Anyway, see Dick's comments one section above. -- mattb @ 2006-10-31T03:04Z

Oh, I see. Its been driving me mad trying to figure it out. Thanks CPES 03:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Revised wording: photo BJT and photo FET

Well put (I think it is important to cover opto aspects) CPES 10:42, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard "Photo BJT". Let's don't use it without a good source. Dicklyon 21:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Photo BJT in this case is just used to differentiate between photo aspects of BJT and photo aspects of FET(photo transistor could be interpreted to cover both BJT and FET). I meant that it is important to cover the opto aspects on the tran page for both BJTs and FETs, rather than say nothing, and that the revised wording is all that is needed. I was not suggesting that any new information on opto be added to the tran page. CPES 08:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Opto FETs

I seem to remember that optically activated FETs are available. If so, this should be mentioned in the appropriate paragraph.--Light current 02:06, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if discreet opto-FETs are available, but they're certainly available when packaged with an LED as an optical isolator.

Atlant 12:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes thats what I meant. Thanks for confirming--Light current 23:31, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Discrete photo fet at: http://www.linearsystems.com/datasheets/LS627.pdf I think there are a load for hs fibre rx too. But most are in optocouplers as said. Here is some description stuff: http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/data/semicond/phototransistor/photo_transistor.php - CPES 23:36, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

SETs

Single-electron transistors are not mentioned at all in the article and neither have a page of their own. Could someone fix this? --Khokkanen 20:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I added a mention to this article. We have an article on the SET. --Heron 22:05, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Single molecule transistors

See http://www.photonics.com/content/news/2006/September/1/84283.aspx

Multiple emitter

Perhaps a section should be added on multiple emitter transistors, an important topic in electronics.

Ordinary Person 22:24, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Stuff here and there and re-arrangement needed

Two types of transistors? I believe we do have a gazillion types of transistors these days. Perhaps we should accurately say, "in the beginning, there are two basic types of transistors, BJT and FET".

Looks like this article need some re-arranging. The types were described above (Semiconductor type, power ratings, etc), and then towards the bottom, we see BJT, FET, etc. They can probably live happily in one section. I am translating this page into wiki:id, I'm lucky as no one will protest the way I'm arranging the sections, heheheh... Kortsleting 03:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

No makers list please

Matt, good job deleting the spam-magnet list of makers. I was tempted, but not as bold. Dicklyon 05:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the word of support... I had the evil idea of adding my own lab to the list if someone re-added it. (just kidding) -- mattb @ 2006-11-30T05:42Z

Math/TeX changes

I changed a couple equations regarding the collector/emitter and gain/drain/source proportions. First, for example, "I_ce" seems more appropriate than "Ice". Secondly, the proportional equation is a bit easier to write in TeX (and looks better ;p), so, yeah. -Matt 16:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Testing

please add how to determine whether an unknown transistor is a PNP or NPN type with just the aid of an Ohmmeter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.213.87.23 (talk) 04:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

You have to first know which lead of your ohmmeter is positive, and you have to know that your ohmmeter has a decent open-circuit voltage, such as applied by a 1.5-volt cell. If you have an NPN, you'll get a low resistance reading from base to collector or emitter when you put the positive lead on the base, and high resistance the other way around. Reverse for a PNP. But that only belongs in the article if you find a reliable source for it. So pick one. Dicklyon 05:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Page size

The page is getting big. I suggest we put the more technical BJT and FET stuff (equations, models) on the respective device pages. - mako 07:32, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I had the same thought. This page gets bloated regularly. Snafflekid 15:44, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I moved the BJT stuff off to the BJT page. I'm not familiar with the equation in the FET section, though; where does it belong? - mako 05:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

"There is no need for haste." See Wikipedia:Article size. — Omegatron 01:50, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

32kB is just a suggestion. However, transistor has a very big field to cover. Snafflekid 02:04, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

This page is minuscule compared to the actual complexity in the art of transistor making and integration.

A huge subject to the point that A page with 32K as sugested would have no text at all but an intro and sub section to other pages.--Transisto (talk) 01:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Cost in $

Subject deemed of little importance, moved to talk:transistor/archive#1

Transisto (talk) 07:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

ChrisnHouston's edits

Chris, I have problems with a bunch of your recent edits. The new lead paragraph introduces an unsourced analogy, unnecessarily introduces FET-only terminology, confusingly uses the word valve which has another meaning in electronics, and proposes a modified theory of transistor naming. Your linearity comments are way off base, since linearity is a property of a circuit, not of a transistor. The harmonic distortion statement is unsourced. You may have some good ideas here, so try again, more carefullly, with sources; for now, reverting all. Dicklyon (talk) 04:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

That analogy was added as a simplified way to understand the device. Analogies are never perfect, or they wouldn't be analogies. The source/drain/valve terminology refers to the faucet. And vacuum tubes, transistors and faucets all share a common function of acting as valves. Water was engineered long before electrons were, and much of the terminology was adopted through such analogies. My effort was toward making the article far more easy to understand for anyone wanting to learn about the transistor. You see potential in those efforts and instead of building upon it, your chosen course of action is to tear it down. Curious. And I'm sure you're well aware that amplification and switching are properties of circuits too (and not transistors in themselves alone). If you were consistent in your approach to Wikipedia here, you would have deleted a lot more than just my contributions, especially seeing how there are only five references on the entire page presenting many dozens of statements. An alternative Wikipedia strategy is one of incremental building, where if some bricks are seen to be crooked, you can tweak them straight and keep on constructing instead of knocking a whole wall down. ...something you might want to consider next time you feel the desire to use anti-vandalism tools in response to contributers you see to have constructive intent. ChrisnHouston (talk) 10:55, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Ridiculous google link.

Here's some quotes from what shows up on my browser window when I go to the google reference link. If your 6th grade (American) teacher would flunk your paper for using that source, it really should not be used as a reliable source anywhere, because it's not.

• In the first place it's certainly _not_ SPAM, and in the second it's infinitely more on topic than the "Jihad needs scientists" thread.
• In the third place, what makes you think Beaty's an idiot?
• Please don't post this type of garbage spam on the SED and SEB newsboards.
  • It's your choice for posting on the others if you wish to let the world know
• FOOT APPLY DIRECTLY IN MOUTH
• FOOT APPLY DIRECTLY IN MOUTH
• FOOT APPLY DIRECTLY IN MOUTH

Now, what in this is a reference for this article on transistors? Please answer this question before you repost this nonsense. This is not to be harsh to you, but to make you see what I see with your "reference:" garbage. This is what other readers of this article will see: this garbage I quote above. They won't necessarily see free access to a copyrighted IEEE article.

--69.225.10.208 (talk) 06:54, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

He explained the point before: somewhere in that thread is a long quoted excerpt from the Arns paper. But that's not a sufficient reason to cite a discussion forum. If anyone wants a copy of the Arns paper for verification or so they can pick a good quote, let me know and I can send you one. Dicklyon (talk) 08:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Nand chip transistor count

There was no mention of transistors on the referenced site. It was used as a reference for this sentence: "For example a microSDHC flash memory the size of a fingernail can contain more than 50 billion transistors."

Smithg86 (talk) 00:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

not a good references but... more on the subject

this chip has 2 bit per cell (MLC) or 12*8/2 = 48bln T (minimum)

(fun fact) boasts a whopping 50 billion transistors. Harari mused that if you took that many ants and sat them in a line, they’d circle the earth twice! [4] and newer 32GB [5]

Ps: edited flash memory capacity with Sandisk pressroom links --Transisto (talk) 12:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Introduction attractiveness

What would increase general public interest and awareness ?

( Trăn-zǐs'tər )

• Visual : This cute picture introduce the notion of 3 contacts over the "famous" transistor symbol.

• Chip Density : A "fun fact" like "fingernail (12BG microSDHC) = 50bln T" ...NAND... "50bln = ~ 2 x earth circumference / ants length" (ref: Dr. Eli Harari Sandisk's Founder)

• Global ubiquity : Quick reference of global T count witch is above 2? bln T per capita

Paper transistor

This statement was just added by a user with just an IP address: "As of July of 2008, a Portuguese research team of Universidade Nova de Lisboa has successfully created the first paper transistor, which is expected to revolutionize the high expenses connected to that industry". There is a citation to the BBC in the Portuguese language. I don't understand Portuguese, but it seems to say something about a publication in Electron Device Letters. Can someone who speaks Portuguese (or who reads every issue of Electron Device Letters) provide a citation to that publication, or figure out some information that would help in searching, such as the issue, author name or article title? --Gerry Ashton (talk) 18:37, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Accurate but certainly too new to be in history section... High Performance Flexible Hybrid Field Effect Transistors based on Cellulose Fiber-Paper will be published next September in IEEE Electron Device Letters. A page should be made for it and then added to "transistor types" section.--Transisto (talk) 05:17, 30 July 2008 (UTC)