Talk:Concerns and controversies at the 2008 Summer Olympics/Archive 2

Gender verification

There are reports in the Western news media that gender verification will be in effect in Beijing. According to the article gender verification in sports, it has "been officially stopped by the International Olympic Committee in 1999". Wonder if someone can verify this. --Voidvector (talk) 15:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

IOC: Beijing Briefing Kit

Beijing Briefing Kit, 3 August 2007, Volume 4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by DL5MDA (talk • contribs) 22:18, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

NYT article on NBC tape delay backlash

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/sports/olympics/09nbc.html?hp

Good article on NBC's futile efforts to censor (online) footage of the opening ceremonies within the US. --Madchester (talk) 04:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

NBC West Coast Primetime Delay Very sad —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.122.28.117 (talk) 03:47, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

If you're on a satellite dish, you should be able to get east coast... 70.55.86.69 (talk) 11:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Added my contribution. Edit as you see fit. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 05:56, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Concerns or controversies?

Let's just say it like it is: these are controversies. Having the article named "Concerns..." is weak. Barrylb (talk) 08:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Poor crowd turn out is not controversial. BillyTFried (talk) 19:54, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

China faking the ages of its athletes is.Rhinowing (talk) 01:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Several of the controversies in the article describe events (rampant forced disappearances, persecution, apartheid, forcible transfer of population) that may qualify as crimes against humanity in accordance with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. "Concerns" does indeed sound less partisan, but may not be appropriate anymore.   — C M B J   22:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

You have actually mentioned the primary reason why "concerns" is used. As per WP:NPOV, wikipedia is not a partisan advocate of any one viewpoint, and is less-partisan terms are certainly appropriate.--Huaiwei (talk) 11:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

It is undeniable that some events that have happened before the Games (for example the torch relay) and during the Games have been controversial. Therefore, naming the article "Controversies over the 2008 Summer Olympics" rather than "Concerns..." seems to be a more accurate, neutral name because "concerns" does not accurately represent the level of controversy that these events have generated. -Paul1337 (talk) 15:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Spelling consisting

Madchester- It doesn't matter what spelling IOC uses. (See Manual of Style, which refers only to a strong connection to a particular region.) Moreover, China uses American spelling (with logical puntuation -- just like Wikipedia!) on their Olympic Web site, though that, too, is irrelevant. Let's follow WP policy here! The article started out with American spelling; let's keep it that way. (And let's keep it consistent!) Thanks. PeterH2 (talk) 07:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, I believe in China its common to use American spellings, only in Hong Kong and other colonies will you find more British influence to be common. .:davumaya:. 10:13, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, Wikipedia's MOS indicates that we actually have no preference towards one variant of English over another.

Second, the best solution is to substitute those words with multiple spellings with ones that are common across all variants of English. i.e., criticize/criticise to denounce, organize/organise to form, index, etc. Also when you're taking quotations from a source, you should still be reproducing it word for word, even if its based on a different spelling variant. I've made the appropriate fixes using the appropriate synonyms, except for one word ("politicising"), which was directly quoted from the BBC article.

The reason I referred to the IOC standard, is because we use the organization as the main reference for Olympic articles. I remember moderating over an edit war at Talk:2006_Winter_Olympics_medal_count with multiple editors trying to promote their different counting systems, instead of following the one established by the IOC. --Madchester (talk) 19:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Ticket scalpers

here, I wodner if this should be included or wait to see what develops. Katana Geldar 07:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

2008 Kunming bus bombings

Should these bombings be mentioned? I'm not sure if they are, but I can't tell. Spencer^T♦C 21:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

yes because they are fundamentally a threat to the Games posed by the terroists (or whatever they call themselves). Maybe there should be a new section named safety; as this is not an isolated event, there has been a few potential threats made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingramhk (talk • contribs) 16:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

The begining singer

I read while look on the drudge report that the girl who "sang" the song was not singing it, instead she was chossen because the girl that was choosen for her voice had buck teath. Should this be mentioned, and no I can not find the site where it was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Not G. Ivingname (talk • contribs) 15:48, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I remember I saw it on a news report. They said she wasn't cute/pretty enough (I knew something didn't look right). 12.74.209.109 (talk) 02:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Age of Chinese Gymastics

Though there is nothing offical about this, and might not be apporpriate, but is widely thought that the chinese olimpic team is underaged, though on there pasports it says they are 16, but even the person covering the games says they looked to young, If anyone can find something offical to comfirm or denie this, that would be great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Not G. Ivingname (talk • contribs) 16:03, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

A section on this topic has been added to the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerns_over_the_2008_Summer_Olympics#Possibly_Underage_Gymnasts BillyTFried (talk) 19:42, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

The IOC is not investigating the age, even though their is monting evidence? I heard they were, though I did not read it personally though. is there anyone who can look for evidence of this?--Not G. Ivingname (talk) 21:55, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Why are concerns over one event appearing in this article, when they should appear in the respective event page? This is not an issue which concerns the entire games, and if anything, doping is of far greater concern across all sports.--Huaiwei (talk) 11:29, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Empty Olympic seats cause concern

By Michael Bristow BBC News, Beijing

Chinese officials have admitted that they are concerned about the lack of spectators at some Olympic events.

They have hired volunteers, dressed in yellow shirts, to fill up empty venues and improve the atmosphere inside.

But Wang Wei, a senior official with the Beijing organising committee (Bocog), said other Olympics had experienced similar problems.

The comments came after spectators and journalists noticed that certain venues were far from full, even though all events are sold out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7555509.stm

BillyTFried (talk) 19:51, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Foreigners taken away by Beijing police for instigating "Tibet independence"

BEIJING, Aug. 13 (Xinhua) - Seven Americans and one Japanese national were taken away by Beijing police on Wednesday noon for fomenting "Tibet independence" at a park, police said. At around 12:20, the eight people were gathering at the China Ethnic Culture Park in the northern part of urban Beijing, waving flags symbolizing "Tibet independence" and shouting slogans supporting "Tibet independence". Police also said the eight entered China on tourist visas. The Beijing police was considering cutting their stay period in China and asking them to leave China. Editor: Bi Mingxin

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/13/content_9268286.htm

BillyTFried (talk) 20:44, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Protests still unwelcome in Beijing

China has set aside three parks during the Olympics, to allow people to demonstrate. But, as the BBC's Michael Bristow finds out, the parks are empty and those who apply for permission to protest are even finding themselves arrested.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7559217.stm

BillyTFried (talk) 01:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

77 Olympic protest requests, 0 approved, Applicants Arrested

BEIJING - Chinese authorities have not approved any of the 77 applications they received from people who wanted to hold protests during the Beijing Olympics, state media reported Monday. In July, China said protests would be allowed in three parks far from games venues. Tuesday is the last day anyone could apply for permission to protest during the games. "This is not realistic," Wang said. "We think that you do not really understand China's reality. China has its own version and way of exercising our democracy." There have been no demonstrations in the designated areas since the games started, though small unregulated protests have occurred in other parts of the city. Most of them have been conducted by foreigners who were swiftly deported after unfurling "Free Tibet" banners. Also Monday, a dozen people applied for permits to protest about being forcibly evicted from their homes to make way for redevelopment projects. As they gathered, plainclothes security officers videotaped them and took their photographs, a common method for Chinese authorities to keep track of dissenting voices and one that intimidates many Chinese. "I have lived all over since I became homeless, including tunnels, warehouses, on the street, and the houses of friends and relatives," Yang Shuangjun, 37, who lost his home in 2006, told AP reporters who were present. "What they have done to us is unlawful and unfair." Another petitioner, Sun Liwei, said she also has slept on the streets and relied on the kindness of friends since being kicked out of her home in 2005. "My heart aches," said Sun, a 52-year-old former teacher, her eyes filling with tears. "I have always believed in my government, even though I have lost everything. My possessions, my home, and my job were taken away from me. I don't feel like a citizen anymore."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080818/ap_on_re_as/oly_china_protests

BillyTFried (talk) 16:34, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Ara Abrahamian (Wrestler throws medal in protest)

here are two Reuters articles about the Swedish Wrestler, Ara Abrahamian, throwing his bronze medal on the mat and quiting the sport.
"Anger as Swedish wrestler loses on 'bad call"
"Swede throws down medal, faces probe" Dreammaker182 17:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

just added this Rhinowing (talk) 01:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Issues With the Olympic Village's Religous Center

Possible new section: there are allegations that many athletes from various nations and religions are increasingly dissatisfied with the Religious Center. The complaints include that it’s hard to find, too small to house its worshippers, lacks competent religious clergy, who cannot speak or perform religious ceremonies in any other language outside their native Chinese. Athletes are apparently so angry that they repeatedly go to the center so that their multiple complaints get logged again and again to reinforce how bad it really is. Some people are arguing it’s just another example of Chinese control over religion, and what was previously taken for granted at other Olympics. Here’s a link to a Washington Post article on the subject. Some Olympians Dissatisfied With Religious Center

Also, shouldn’t the fact that Bela Karolyi was banned from the Gymnastics stadium a be added to the said section? I think its very pertitent that the most vocal critic of the Chinese Gymnastics Age Scandal wasn’t allowed access. Zidel333 (talk) 17:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

rower's bus crash?

Shouldn't the bus crash involving the Australian doctor and the athletes bus putting a bunch of Chinese in a van into critical condition be somewhere? 70.51.11.210 (talk) 14:01, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Gold medal controversy

Would this be the proper place for the debate over the Liukin / Hexin results in the uneven bars competition? (no, i don't mean "Can we debate it, here, on the topic page....") it's being reported on some of the 24-hour networks, seems kinda newsworthy. if ya don't know what i'm talking about: [1]

look over it yourself, see if it merits a reference on this page.

24.3.14.157 (talk) 12:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I would say that it probably doesn't merit a mention. The ruling was based on an established set of laws by the IOC. The only reason it was confusing was because this situation probably hasn't come up since the rules were implemented, and that IOC gymnastics rules differ from FIG rules. In fact, Nastia doesn't seem terribly bothered by the decision. Now, the women's vault competition, on the other hand, might deserve inclusion, if it gets any further attention. --SesanaP (talk) 16:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Can someone add a section about the f***ing (Yes I know the nicey nice rules so don't tell me) horrible judging (something simple like Judging Errors), since it appears the judges are A) being payed off or B) are incompetent dips***s who couldn't judge a minor league baseball game.--67.140.56.121 (talk) 16:18, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Americans are understandably concerned over the results of the women's uneven bars competition, but so far I don't see evidence that it rises to the level of the other issues in the concerns article. Ultimately, we have to be encyclopaedic. If the controversy persists, we could include it, but I suspect that at least half of the material in this article will be cut, and probably much more over time.

For the record, the criticisms of the uneven bars competition are that 1) the Australian judge's scoring appeared to ignore several deductions from He Kexin's routine, while making several deductions from Nastia Liukin not made by other judges. Also, 2) the tie-breaking system was confusing to the viewing public. There is also the women's vaults, where the bronze medalist Cheng Fei fell during one of her routines, but nevertheless outscored Alicia Sacramone. Sacramone did not make any major errors, though her starting difficulties were also lower than Cheng's. Nevertheless, the decision remains controversial in the United States.

I don't see a problem with including the content, but honestly in a few months the real work of cutting away the extraneous material will begin. Any or none of these stories could survive, depending on media attention. Wellspring (talk) 22:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

While it's true that this maybe more of a matter of confusion over the judging, there are all kinds of "confusion" over legal rulings (especially criminal sentences and perceived leniency/severity), and those are usually considered worth noting. 24.3.14.157 (talk) 00:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

The Chinese were incontrol of the event I noticed after looking at the recording of it again, it was mentioned by the reporter. Just to be noted, they also said that the American girl had a better porfomince as well, just going by what they said...--Not G. Ivingname (talk) 01:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)