Talk:Gerald Ford

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09/01/04 - 12/26/2006 (pre-death) 12/27/06 - 12/31/06 01/01/07 - 03/31/07

Article length

Please note - I checked it, and the readable prose in this article is only 48K - not 102K - see Wikipedia:Article size#What is and is not included as "readable prose". That's a little longer than the guidelines suggest, but my opinion is that it's within reason and I think it can stand as it is. Since the subject is deceased, there shouldn't be large amounts of material added to the article, so it isn't likely to get any bigger. Tvoz |talk 23:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Sports section

I'm a big sports fan, but I wonder if a disproportionate amount of attention is given to GF's athletic career. It seems to me that the sports section has more detail than, say, important aspects of his foreign policy. I think this is an excellent article overall, but I wonder if the attention to sports doesn't border on the unencyclopedic. Any thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Benzocane (talk • contribs) 03:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

Pro-life?

I removed the following:

At the same time, Ford was pro-life regarding abortion, and he opposed the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade.[ref]Ford, Gerald. Letter to the Archbishop of Cincinnati, published online by The American Presidency Project. Santa Barbara, CA: University of California (1976-09-10).[/ref]

First of all, the source does not say "pro-life" anywhere. It is original research to claim that Ford is "pro-life" based on the cited source. In fact, the way it reads is that he is trying to soften the fact that he would allow states to permit abortion, if they decided that on their own (and it wasn't on-demand). Next, we have multiple interviews were Ford explicitly identifies as being "pro-choice". All of this leads me to believe that the sentence I removed is simply inaccurate. Perhaps it is important to state somewhere his stance on this notable issue. What do others think, and does anyone have good sources about this from some of the better biographies on the man?-Andrew c 23:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Ford's views (like those of many others) have apparently changed over time. Near the end of his presidential term (in 1976), he stated opposition to Roe v. Wade, opposition to abortion on demand, and support for a constitutional amendment to overturn Roe. He said that that had been his consistent position for years:

"I have consistently opposed the 1973 decision of the Supreme Court. As President, I am sworn to uphold the laws of the land and I intend to carry out this responsibility. In my personal view, however, this court decision was unwise. I said then and I repeat today--abortion on demand is wrong. Since 1973 I have viewed as the most practical means of rectifying the situation created by the Court's action a Constitutional amendment that would restore to each State the authority to enact abortion statutes which fit the concerns and views of its own citizens. This approach is entirely in keeping with the system of Federalism devised by the founders of our Nation. As Minority Leader of the House of Representatives, I co-sponsored an amendment which would restore this authority to the States, and I have consistently supported that position since that time."

Ford, Gerald. Letter to the Archbishop of Cincinnati, published online by The American Presidency Project. Santa Barbara, CA: University of California (1976-09-10). Andrew c mentions some interviews from decades after he left office. In July of 1998, he said:

"Betty and I are pro-choice, but we can work with people who are pro-life on the broader issues involving Republican philosophy."

And, in August of 2000, he said:

"But the fact that George Bush welcomes people like myself and Betty who are pro-choice is indicative that he's building the tent that will give us a victory."

There's no reason to doubt the veracity of any of these three statements. They indicate a changing view over time. It is important to state somewhere his stance on this notable issue. And regarding the word "pro-life", perhaps the best thing would be to simply quote Ford in order to avoid pointless controversies about nomenclature.Ferrylodge 23:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

So, shall I edit the article accordingly, or not?Ferrylodge 00:01, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree that we shouldn't g et into nomenclature discussions. I hope you don't mind that I edited the article accordingly first ;) I also wrote the following, but couldn't find a place to fit it. Ford would later come under criticism for a 1975 60 Minutes interview his wife Betty gave during his presidency where she stated that Roe v. Wade was a "great, great decision."[ref]Greene, John Edward (1995). The presidency of Gerald R. Ford. Lawrence: University Press of Kansas. pp. p. 33. ISBN 0-7006-0639-4. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)[/ref] In interviews given later in his lifetime, Ford identified as pro-choice.[ref]"The Best of Interviews With Gerald Ford". Larry King Live Weekend. CNN. 2001-02-03. Retrieved 2007-06-12.[/ref] I wanted to put it in the foot note, but it's strange to have foot notes inside footnotes. We could just create a section about his views on abortion. The reason I chose to include the content in the section I did is because his biggest political action in this regard occurred while he was Minority Leader.-Andrew c 00:35, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I think it ought to be mentioned that Ford maintained his position on a constitutional amendment throughout his presidency. For example, see the Presidential Campaign Debate Between Gerald R. Ford and Jimmy Carter, October 22, 1976:

"THE PRESIDENT. I support the Republican platform, which calls for the constitutional amendment that would outlaw abortions. I favor the particular constitutional amendment that would turn over to the States the individual right of the voters in those States the chance to make a decision by public referendum. I call that the peoples' amendment. I think if you really believe that the people of a State ought to make a decision on a matter of this kind, that we ought to have a federal constitutional amendment that would permit each one of the 50 States to make the choice."

This was his administration's policy from beginning to end.Ferrylodge 00:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Well since this topic spans his life, perhaps choosing one section for its inclusion is not appropriate. I'd propose the following paragraph:

After the 1973 Supreme Court case, Roe v. Wade, Ford, as House Minority Leader, co-sponsored an unsuccessful constitutional amendment which would have returned authority to the states to determine the legality of abortion. Ford would later come under criticism for a 1975 60 Minutes interview his wife Betty gave during his presidency where she stated that Roe v. Wade was a "great, great decision." Ford maintained the Republican Party platform on abortion throughout his presidency, favoring "a federal constitutional amendment that would permit each one of the 50 States to make the choice." In interviews given later in his lifetime, Ford identified as pro-choice.

The only issue is this article is written chronologically, and it seems strange to break up these 4 sentences into 3 different sections of the article. I would really like to hear from the editors who worked on getting this article FA status to see how they feel about integrating this material into the article. I'd suggest holding off on further editing for a day or so to give the regular editors a chance to discuss.-Andrew c 00:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Most of this relates to his presidency, and that's where I'd put this paragraph:

As president, Ford's position on abortion was that he supported "a federal constitutional amendment that would permit each one of the 50 States to make the choice." This had also been his position as House Minority Leader, in response to the 1973 Supreme Court case, Roe v. Wade, which he opposed. Ford came under criticism for a 60 Minutes interview his wife Betty gave in 1975, in which she stated that Roe v. Wade was a "great, great decision." In later life, Ford would identify as pro-choice.

The 1976 debate, the 60 Minutes Interview, and the letter to the archbishop all occurred during his presidency, so that's where this paragraph should go, IMHO.Ferrylodge 01:23, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

New Approval Rating Graph

I made that graph, maybe you would like to put it on the page.

--Jean-Francois Landry 17:10, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gerald Rudolff Ford

The biography for the stepfather of Gerald Rudolff Ford who raised Ford and for whom Ford legally changed his own name has been nominated for deletion. You can enter your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gerald Rudolff Ford. Americasroof 05:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

First Paragraph ??? What the...?

What kind of joke? The opening says that Ford died 8 years before becoming president. And, that Nixon left office for sugar production. 68.180.38.41 00:03, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Death: "Last Rites"?

The Death section says that his son, an Evangelical minister, performed last rites. The source cited also says this. Why would an Evangelical minister perform a Roman Catholic sacrament for his non-Catholic father? Surely the author of the cited source (and/or the source that the author used) was not very clear on the use of that term, and used the term to represent something that is not "last rites." —Preceding unsigned comment added by HolyT (talk • contribs) 00:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Cabinet

Recommend converting the cabinet table to use {{Infobox U.S. Cabinet}}. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 21:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Michigan Template

Would it be a problem replacing the retired number template with {{Michigan Wolverines Football}}--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 20:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that if you're going to have two separate templates, the current one is more appropriate to have here. Is there a reason to maintain the retired numbers navigation box separately, since the same info is in the larger navigation box? MisfitToys (talk) 01:51, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Please cite

Could you cite where you found that "Gerald R. Ford was born Leslie Lynch King, Jr. on July 14, 1913, at 12:43 a.m. CST, at 3202 Woolworth Avenue in Omaha, Nebraska"? --Ivan Isaak (talk) 18:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Slight issue with statistics citation

The quote "In fact, the Gallup poll the day before the election showed Ford held a statistically insignificant 1-point advantage over Carter.[87]" is somewhat misleading, and unnecessary. Without statistical significance, the lead isn't really notable at all, especially with the likely size of the sample. In any case, it's an extraneous piece of trivia that is not needed, especially with the material proceeding that line. I don't want to change it, though; I'm mostly a reader of Wikipedia, and this is a well-done article. Thanks. 66.82.162.17 (talk) 10:14, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Corporate Career

There is no mention of Ford's corporate career. According to the theyrule.net he was on the board of directors of Citicorp for example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.162.155.13 (talk) 06:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Bit more on, you know, his PRESIDENCY?!

At the moment the section on his presidency is a few (extremely negative) sentences and a link to the article on his tenure in the White House. Surely more space should be devoted to this in his own page. After all, most people would think of him as Former President Gerald Ford. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.71.250.228 (talk) 12:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

There's a full article on it: Presidency of Gerald Ford. I agree the section here should be lengthened a bit, though. Feel free to do so! I hope this helps. -- lucasbfr ^{ho ho ho} 13:20, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

If you compare this article to the other one that is FA, Ronald Reagan, you will see that RR has a much more substantial "Presidency" section. RR's might even be a bit too much, but surely we could use a better summary that what currently stands. What worried me is that we might have to provide something that is very similar-sounding to the paragraph in the lead section. Striking the right balance is this case is a general problem. I added a note to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject U.S. Presidents#How to deal with a separate "Presidency" article.--Spellage (talk) 06:47, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Duplication

I noticed that the Gerald_Ford#1976 presidential election is duplicated at the end of Presidency of Gerald Ford#1976 presidential election. I think that we should have only one such section and the other should be non-existent or a brief summary. Even though this is an FA, I have removed the duplication from this article and added a sentence to the "Presidency" section. It is unfortunate that, for reasons of article size, we need to delegate this big piece and yet we have no choice but to provide a full and balanced paragraph about his presidency in the lead section.--Spellage (talk) 05:39, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I moved that section to the "Presidency" page. I also note that the current "Presidency" section is rather weak for an FA. What should we do here? One possibility is to move the ample "Presidency" paragraph from the lead down to that section, but then readers would find the lead unsatisfactory. I am sure that most other President articles after Ford face the same dilemma. What to do?--Spellage (talk) 06:27, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Smoking?

I've heard Ford was the last president who smoked in the White House, at least on a regular basis. Is this true? I've also heard smoking isn't allowed at the White House. When did the rule start? Is it only a rule for certain areas? Technically the 2nd floor is a private residence, so people could smoke there if they were allowed by the tennant, right? --98.232.180.37 (talk) 06:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)