Talk:LeBron James

Stupid Layout

Why does this article mention every single season he has been in? Take a look at MJ's article. Does it list every single season since he was drafted? No. This article needs a major overhaul. I mean come on now. brian varble

Personal Life

It's "team's" not "teams" for the scoring record in against the Pistons.

Height and Weight

his height and weight are wrong according to his nba.com profile —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.166.156 (talk • contribs)

The NBA does not measure its players. James is 6-9, 260 according to himself. --Bender235 (talk) 22:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I would want some proof that the NBA does not measure its players. Not to mention that whatever Lebron says about himself should not even remotely be of contention. It is clear that he is nowhere near 250-260 lbs...just compare him to Karl Malone for instance. Rocky 21:12, 9 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rock8591 (talk • contribs)

I agree he's 6 ft 8, according to 99% of googled resources, including polls and official basketball websites (and not just NBA.com). He might be 6-9 with shoes on or if he feels like talking himself up (which is not uncommon among NBA players), but let's go with the definitive majority instead of a single (dare I say) misquoted, mistyped, misinformed or misspoken resource. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.182.105.118 (talk) 23:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of whether or not the NBA measures its players, it is clear that using a person's personal measurements for height and weight is a joke. Athletes have plenty of reason to overlist themselves, as a 6'10" for example would be a very ideal height for a power forward in the NBA while a 6'8" or even 6'9" may raise eyebrows to the person being "undersized." Rocky 21:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rock8591 (talk • contribs) Lebron James is 274lbs. cited ESPN Wednesday Dec. 10th While playing the 76ers Come on guys, he's not 6-7 for sure. The majority of sources (NBA, yahoo, ESPN, SI, MSN) as well as google results have him around 6-8 and between 240 and 250 pounds. He said that he's 6-9 with his shoes on, and he's 6-8 without. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.26.40 (talk) 17:55, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I watch a ton of Cavalier games, and it's been said about 345346 times that he is up to 274 pounds, which is gigantic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.133.180 (talk • contribs) 2008-12-28 (UTC)

High School Career

Anyone know who added this content? Or maybe have any references for it? None of it is cited, which can become troublesome for future editing. Zodiiak^{Dial Z} 21:09, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I can tell you for a fact the W-L stat for LeBron's freshman year is incorrect. The Fighting Irish were undefeated, finishing with a perfect 27-0 record. This information can be verified on the OHSAA website. Wikiwiseguy (talk) 03:49, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

2005-06 season

This section is bloated, I cut some of it but more needs to be cut. There's really no reason for one section to be that much larger than the other season sections. Tayquan ^holla _{My work} 03:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Update

Okay, I gave this article a thorough copy-edit (which was much needed) and expanded the lead. In general, any style guide will tell you it's always better to use less words whenever possible. Looks good. Tayquan ^holla _{My work} 04:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I expanded the lead it needed expansion, as it was two short paragraphs and didn't adequately summarize the article, perticularly the high school career section. Tayquan ^holla _{My work} 13:47, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Content that was removed was described in edit summaries, click the history tab. To summarize, there's no need to mention Minor achievements – Mr Ohio Basketball, 2nd place in MVP voting, and Bronze Medal. However, I think the playoff mentions added were valid since they exemplify his impact in the NBA. HS career is summarized by simply stating he was highly promoted in the national media while still in HS--the article then goes into detail about it, we don't need to add details in the lead. Zodiiak 18:49, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I would say it's incorrect to say that the high school section (which comprises a big portion of this article) is summarized by saying "he gained popularity in high school". Trevor GH5 00:42, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

One more thing then I'll butt out. If you don't like the expansion he made, write your own but it does need to be expanded. Trevor GH5 00:44, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:LEAD

"The lead is a summary of the article", this lead is too short—its the same length 50 Cent was when we brought it up for peer review and the first comment from the automated peer reviewer was to expand the lead. Also saying he was popular in high school does not summarize the lengthy high school section, the Olympics is not summarized, neither is the MVP race which is mentioned in length. See any recently passed sports FA this lead is too short:Michael Jordan, Ian Thorpe, Martin Brodeur, Dominik Hašek, and Bill Russell. Tayquan ^holla _{My work} 21:16, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Looking things over I agree with you Tayquan but both you and Zodiiak need to work together. If Zodiiak doesn't like the current lead (which I think is fine) then you should work together to see what you can do to expand it. It's clearly much shorter than the leads you linked to. Trevor GH5 00:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The lead length is fine; you should actually expand it slightly with a mention of the position he plays. There are prose problems, however. The shift to past tense in the second sentence, for instance. The last paragraph should not be a single sentence. Marskell 07:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I've always said that the lead should be expanded, check the history section to where I began revamping the article. I personally think there's too many minor details in the lead right now. Comparing this article to Jordan, Thorpe, and Brodeur is a bit of a stretch since James is only 22 years old. Those articles will obviously have a bigger lead because there's much more content and historical information to include. The lead at the Dwyane Wade article serves as a better example, since it is listed as a good article and has also been approved for version 0.7. Anyways, consensus seems to be in favor of the lead as it stands now, so I'll leave it at that. Zodiiak 23:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the this version of the lead seems more acceptable now? The removed parts are what I feel are the less significant aspects of his career. Chensiyuan 19:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Two paragraphs should be ideal for an article this length. Good examples to look at would be James' exact contemporaries, Dwyane Wade (who has achieved quite a fair bit as well) and, to a lesser extent, Chris Bosh, both of whom are rated good articles. Manderiko 20:31, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

06-07 season section getting bloated/unencyclopedic tone

I think that section needs to be trimmed and worked on. it contains loaded statements such as "lebron's best game" as well it goes it goes into more detail than is really necesary. It seems the clsoer this page gets to good status the further it sometimes falls backDuhon 20:40, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree but it seems my opinion carries no weight at this article. Approximately 350 edits done to improve the article were in complete vain. I'm through editing here. Zodiiak 23:29, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the whole thing about Last nights being Lebron's best game is important for the article. As it is, it's one of the greatest preformances ever in basketball. Again, I said one of, not the grestest. A lot in this article can be taken out, but I think important parts are his high school career because he never went to college so that's how we rate him before he became pro. He was a local star here in Cleveland before he even played one game pro. Trust me, tickets to his akron games were almost 100 dollars. I think he's one of the best players and last nights game has to be reconized as a achievement. He scored the last 30 points of the Cavs during that game last night. The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 13:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC) The Comment about the finals (James playing four SOLID games) seems somewhat misplaced? He shot below .400 had alot of turnovers and all his statistics dropped in the Finals. Any suggestions how to name it? Struggle? Dissapointed performance?

Darfur petition

Someone should mention James's refusal to sign Ira Newble's Darfur petition.

I disagree. This should be taken off. If we put that on Lebron's bio, shouldn't we put it on every player who didn't sign the petition's bio?MSauce 04:31, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes and no. We can put it on everyones bio, fine with me. But a star like James refusing it and being condemned by a very wide spectrum of the public should be mentioned.--Bangabalunga 05:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

To me, it seems important to mention it while it goes as big as yahoo.com editing the info, and LeBron James - especially as Team USA captain - been asked for a reaction and who indeed responded. PetiteSalade 08:56, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Why does it matter that he does not sign a petition? The media may have made some noise over it, but his refusal to sign was explained by the fact that he did not have enough information on the issue. QED, his refusal says nothing about him. Chensiyuan 09:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

No doubt; it's not the sort of thing I would include. Manderiko 20:57, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

"QED, his refusal says nothing about him." Do you always take people's motivations for what they do at their word? The petition strongly criticized the Chinese government; LeBron James has a very lucrative deal with Nike; Nike has very cushy relations with the Chinese government. This is the same line of speculation the media followed. I'm not saying James necessarily isn't telling the truth about his motivation, but to assume he must have been is, at best, misguided. Raggaga 02:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I never take criticism of a place emanating from someone who has never even been to that same place seriously. Chensiyuan 08:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Um, so you wouldn't criticize Nazi Germany without having been to Nazi Germany? And it doesn't really matter how you personally feel about it; other people (including The New York Times) have taken Newble's petition seriously, and what matters is whether the issue is notable by Wikipedia standards. Wikipedia is a haven for facts, not opinions. The media gave considerable coverage to James's refusal; of all the Cavaliers, only he and Damon Jones declined to sign it. James has his Nike deal, Jones has a deal with Li Ning, a Chinese company. Those are the facts. Raggaga 15:12, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Your analogy is thoroughly poor but you can go ahead and do whatever you wish. Chensiyuan 15:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Another fantastic frog in the well trying to outjump himself. Manderiko 15:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

How is my analogy "thoroughly poor"? You said, and I quote, "I never take criticism of a place emanating from someone who has never even been to that same place seriously." By that exact same logic, criticism of Nazi Germany "emanating" from someone who has never been to Nazi Germany (say, Winston Churchill or Charles de Gaulle) should not be taken seriously. If you want a more contemporary example, plenty of people outside of the United States criticize its foreign and domestic policies; though I'm an American, I don't ask to see their passports for proof that they entered the country before I consider their viewpoints.

There's no need to get into an argument over this because this is all moot, anyway. It doesn't matter what you or I or any one person "takes seriously"; what matters is notability. And I appreciate your acceptance of that, however grudging. Raggaga 15:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I trimmed most of it. Raggaga, this is a brief summary of his career, although it received some media attention it didn't received enough to go into as much detail as you're giving it. No one's talking about it anymore and it's pretty much a blip on the radar screen of his career, see WP:UNDUE and WP:RECENTISM. It deserves about one sentence, if you want to word it differently that's fine. Tayquan ^holla_{My work} 15:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Excellent point, Tayquan. I've fleshed it out just a little more from where you left it, only to give some context as to why he drew criticism for his refusal to sign the petition. All the references to the other Cavaliers signing the petition and Damon Jones's endorsement deal have been removed; it's now just two lines rather than the six or seven from before. I think that's a happy medium, right? Raggaga 18:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I removed the speculation, see my edit summary. Tayquan ^holla_{My work} 19:55, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Drafting

the article makes no mention of his drafting in the body, which i would have thought is rather significant. Chensiyuan 09:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

You're right. I'll add something in the next day or two. Tayquan ^holla _{My work} 03:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

It may also be a good idea to not use season-by-season accounts. This runs throughout the article, from high school to NBA. If you look at all the NBA GAs and FAs (listed on the project page), they all avoid the season-by-season headings. Chensiyuan 19:25, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

His birth place should appear next to his birth date right at the start.

Like any other biography.--ArnoldPettybone 13:10, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It's in the second sentence. That's not a bad place for it. It should not appear as (born December 30, 1984 in Akron, Ohio) if that's what you're suggesting. --OnoremDil 13:19, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

   Exactly. --ArnoldPettybone 21:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The LeBrons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHtoF-lMqaA

not only there is one of many commercials, but you can go to http://www.nike.com

James' Height

On wikipedia you have lebron james height as 6'9. but he is actually 6'8.

6ft9 260 lbs is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard, he's 6ft 7 240 lbs at best. ifyou dont believe hes smaller than 260 pounds just look at an nfl tight end, way bigger than lebron. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.15.149.209 (talk) 10:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, here's the source for you, too: ‘James said he was never afraid when he saw the fan coming. "I'm 6-9 and 260," James said. "I'm all right."’ It's his own words. --Bender235 (talk) 11:00, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

im not believing lebron is 6f9 250 unless i actually see him on some scales. if lebron james is 250 lbs then earl boykins is 6ft 180 lbs. i could tell you right now that im 7ft 250lbs and that doesnt mean that its true. ben wallace is about 6ft7 250 lbs but looks bigger than lebron —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.15.149.209 (talk) 09:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I looked to see if I could find a reliable source for the 6'9" height. I could not find one other than the one already provided, but did find some that say 6'8"

6’8” 250 lbs, [1][2]

6’8” 240 lbs, [3][4][5][6][7]

6’8” 245 lbs, [8]

6’8”, [9][10][11]

Jons63 (talk) 12:06, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

What source is more reliable than LeBron James' own words? He said "I'm 6-9 and 260". This is as clear as it gets. Does he have to spell it for you to realize it? --Bender235 (talk) 13:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Right...because nobody has ever lied about their height before </sarcasm> I don't really care how tall he actually is. Verifiability, not truth. James is a primary source. Wikipedia articles should rely on reliable, published secondary sources. --Onorem♠Dil 13:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I actually don't see a reason why James should lie about his height or weight. It's not like Joe Pesci saying he's 7 ft. tall. James actually is big, and whether the public believes he is 6-8 or 6-9 should make no difference to him. I think he's telling the truth. And further, it's not like it is totally unrealistic that someone grows an inch between his 18th and 22nd birthday. --13:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Anyone who relies on an athlete's own words to conclude his height and weight either has an IQ of less than 50 or is very very naive. Athletes have plenty of reasons to play themselves up. A 6'10 power forward may have ideal size, but even something like a 6'9 (psychologically speaking, the difference between 10 and 9) will raise eyebrows into a player possibly being undersized. Small things like that make a huge difference in contract negotiations. Lebron being 6'8 and 250 lbs gives the impression of a slightly bigger version of Joe Johnson or Paul Pierce, while a 6'9 and 260 will lead people to think (in a knee jerk reaction) that he is a power forward like Karl Malone having the skills of a small forward at the same time. You are right in saying that Lebron does not have the same reason for upgrading himself as Joe Pesci does. He has more reasons for upgrading himself than an actor (not athlete) like Joe Pesci EVER will have. Rocky 12:17, 9 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rock8591 (talk • contribs)

Unfortunately James' own words do not mean it's the most reliable information, particularly insofar as the policies of this encyclopedia are concerned. Perhaps rather than stating it in the body, you can state it in the footnote (as a form of "however") that James himself says he is 6'9. Chensiyuan (talk) 13:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

From WP:Sources, Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Lebron James is a primary source. All the sources above are third-party sources and at least some of them have a reputation for fact checking and accuracy. The Wikipedia policy prefers third-party sources over primary sources if available. So based on that, the BBC is a more reliable source according to the policy than Lebron James himself. Jons63 (talk) 13:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Any of you every studied history to know what the difference between primary and secondary sources is? I doubt it.

I find it curious to think of NBA.com, ESPN, or RealGM as "reliable, third-party published sources", because none of them ever measured or weighed LeBron James. The NBA weighed him once, at the 2003 NBA Predraft camp. He was 6-8 240 back then. That's it. Now LeBron James himself, not some biased fan or whoever, says he has grown to 6-9 and gained 20 pounds since high school. Why is this so hard to believe? --Bender235 (talk) 13:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Not hard to believe, just not verifiable and according to wikipedia policy Lebron James is not a reliable source. I do not question that he is 6'9" 260 lbs. I question the source and the verifiability of the numbers. Jons63 (talk) 13:36, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Of course he is a reliable source, even according to Wikipedia strange policy. Because it's not like somebody heard LeBron saying he was 6-9 and we're changing it based an that kind of rumor. James said it on National TV, which means TV is the secondary source if you want (and the NBA.com transcipt as well). This is what "secondary source" means. This is a secondary source. --Bender235 (talk) 13:43, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It is a secondary source that verifies James said he is 6'9". It is not a secondary source that verifies he is 6'9". --Onorem♠Dil 14:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. But for that matter, there is no secondary source at all that verifies that James currently is 6-8 either. There is just one that estimates his height at about 6-8. And after all, I trust James' own words more than some NBA.com online editor's wild guess. --Bender235 (talk) 14:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It looks like we are at an impass on this. We have an editor that has a strongly held opinion that it should read 6'9" 260 lbs and other editors have a conflicting opinion. Both sides feel their source is what should be used and disagree on the verifiability and reliability of the other's source. It doesn't look like either side will budge. Not sure where to go or how to resolve this content dispute. I have been arguing for the 6'8" based on how I interpret WP:Sources, but does it really make a difference if the article says 6'8" or 6'9"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jons63 (talk • contribs)

The main question is this: is there any reason not to trust LeBron James' own statement concerning his height and weight? --Bender235 (talk) 16:26, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, lets think here, Ben Wallace is officially 6'9". If LeBron was 6'9", he'd be just as tall as Ben, right? Whenever I watch the Cavs, Ben is about an inch taller than LeBron. That would make his height 6'8", right? Besides, almost every roster on the net has him at 6'8". I frankly don't care if the article says 6'8" or 6'9" because he's one of if not the most dominant players in the NBA right now anyway, one inch of height isn't gonna make a big difference. Burner0718 ^JibbaJabba! 16:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, that sounds like a compromise: we don't trust LeBron James when he says he's 6-9, but we do trust Burner0718 when he says "I saw James on TV lately, and I thought he's 6-8". Yeah, right. --Bender235 (talk) 17:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I asked it before and will ask it again, what difference does it make if his height is listed as 6'8" or 6'9" and his weight is listed as 240, 245, 250 or 260? Can anyone give a difference it will make? Jons63 (talk) 17:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I guess 6-9 would be closer to reality, since James says so. --Bender235 (talk) 18:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Dude, I've met the man numerous times, I'm 6'5", If I said I was 7'7", you'd have no choice to believe it would you? As long as NBA.com, ESPN.com and SI.com says he's 6'8", we should leave it at that. I know he's 6'8" cuz' I've met him. It's the same way with Kobe Bryant, some say he's 6'6" some say he's 6'7". Ben Wallace says he's 6'7", everyone has him at 6'9". When the rosters at NBA.com, ESPN.com or SI.com change, we'll change this article. Burner0718 ^JibbaJabba! 17:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

So you're one of those who actually believe the NBA measures its players annually?

Further, yes, if you'd told me you're 7-7 I'd believe you. Why shouldn't I? I don't think I know your height better than you do. --Bender235 (talk) 18:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

i can probably accept the 6ft 9 part but 260 lbs is the biggest bullshit ive heard. that makes him the same size as carlos boozer, and carlos boozers is built like a tank. according to nba heights and weights lebron james is 20 lbs heavier than ben wallace which is crazy. lebron james is big for his position i kno, but 260 lbs he is not. im 5ft 7, but i write on my myspace page and tell people that im 5ft 9, all men lie about their height to try impress people, lebron is no different —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.15.149.209 (talk) 20:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

At 5-7 you probably have more reason to lie about your height than James at 6-8, don't you think so? --Bender235 (talk) 10:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

• To Summarize this argument, it seems as if imore people have argued in favor of keeping the NBA.com official stats on LeBron James, rather than go by a quote he threw out during a post-game conference. Is this correct? Zodiiak (talk) 03:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm assuming as much. I think we should go with 6ft 8in, 240, but that's just me. Kimu 03:45, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Zodiiak, it is not correct. You (or somebody else) still have to explain why we should give NBA data priority over James' own data. For the umpteenth time: the NBA does NOT meassure its players, after Predraft Camp. We might use the NBA.com data in those cases we don't have any other verified information, but in James' case it couldn't be clearer. He didn't say "I'm taller than Bryant" or some other imprecise answer, he said "I'm 6-9, 260." Does he have to step on a weighing-machine in front of a camera before you believe him? --Bender235 (talk) 10:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Just use the nba source, but in the footnote, clarify that James states he is 6-9. Satisfies all parties. And Bender, you can keep asserting that the NBA does not measure its players and NBA is baloney, but why should anyone believe that? You are put to strict proof and will fail evidentially. You are building your case on a presupposition, we are merely citing a long-established and incontrovertible policy of this encyclopedia. Chensiyuan (talk) 11:53, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not saying the NBA is baloney. I'm just saying it's absurd to believe NBA.com knows better about some players' height and weight than the player himself, since they aren't meassuring them. That's it. --Bender235 (talk) 14:00, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't believe that this is still going on. Anyway, after the Pacers game on Monday, LeBron admitted that he was JOKING about the 6'9" comment.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/16486671.html

LeBron likes to joke around...so please lets just use the NBA numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GUHoyas95 (talk • contribs) 12:57, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Question for Bender: Now we have a source that says James said he is 6'7" and he says he was joking about the 6'9". Now what do you think we should use, the 6'7" that he now says he is, or the 6'8" that all the other sources say he is? Jons63 (talk) 13:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The source actually says he joked about being 6-7, and that “the 6-9, 260 figure is probably close to accurate.” --Bender235 (talk) 14:00, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

A recent issue of Vogue states the James is indeed 6'9". James claims to have grown another inch.http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3291984 --TheAznSensation (talk) 03:08, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

The point is: Neither ESPN nor AP meassured LeBron James. But they do trust his words. Why shouldn't Wikipedia, too? --Bender235 (talk) 10:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Photo of Lebron and Dwight Howard: http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1130/nba_a_jamehowa_580.jpg Howard is listed at 6-11 265. Lebron looks to be almost the same height and a little bigger actually. End of story. The idea is to be as accurate as possible. Aside from this discussion and it is obvious that he has gotten larger since his rookie year in terms of weight. The only question is height, and the photo doesnt lie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.178.99.170 (talk) 19:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

This is rediculous bringing up photographs to prove a point is considered orginal research. Something wikipedia diasavows. As of now the only offical listings for lebron james are the ones provided by the NBA. Is it hard to understand that just because an article subject says something about themselves deos not make it official for an article, in fact in most cases should be ignored especially concerning elements such as age or height. If LeBron were to state he is really 40 should we then change his birthdate? Duhon (talk) 05:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we should. Why shouldn't he know his own birthdate? --Bender235 (talk) 12:29, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

• Bottom line. It looks as if most wiki-editors who contribute enormous amounts of work to Wikiarticles here are in favor of trusting the NBA over something LeBron exaggerated. If LeBron stated he's the greatest player of all time, do when they put that up? Plenty of players, and people in general, overexagerate their height and weight. And yes, the NBA does update their stats. Last year LeBron was listed at 240, this year, 250. But, the bottom line looks to be that more people agree with abiding by his NBA stats, which makes sense. Zodiiak (talk) 17:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Being the greatest player of all time is nothing that can be "measured" in the same way we can measure someones height and weight. Did you realize that?

LeBron James has no reason to overexagerate his height. Not at 6-9. Maybe Chris Paul has a reason to make himself taller, but James clearly has not.

The NBA may update their players' weight data, but they do not measure them. --Bender235 (talk) 22:29, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Whatever an athlete says about himself in terms of height or weight is never accurate and should fall on deaf ears for that matter. Athletes lie about their height and weight as instinctively and unthinkingly as humans breathe. It is clear that he is nowhere near 250-260 lbs...just compare him to Karl Malone for instance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.250.158.164 (talk) 20:54, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Anything an athlete says about himself regarding his build, such as height, weight, and body fat percentage should be dismissed as false right off the bat, plain and simple. If you cannot see this, then you are beyond all hope Bender235; for some idiotic reason, you think that the NBA or a 3rd party source is not reliable yet the player himself is. LMAO. That is all. Rocky 21:17, 9 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rock8591 (talk • contribs)

Bender, you keep talking about sources, but then make a subjective comment about who would lie about their height...Where are your sources saying shorter people lie about their height more than taller people? I think you just are being very closed minded here. To me it seems taller people might lie about their height more because they will not be challenged by people who are shorter and thus have no basis for establishing the truth. Additionally he plays in the NBA, and thus has reason enough to lie about his height since he is shorter than many people in his profession. Where height and weight are such an important feature to his profession, the reasons for adding additionally pounds and inches are obvious. Furthermore, in an interview where he clearly was trying to establish his shear size over an individual...a tendency to increase one's own size would be most evident in such a circumstance. Please stop this now. JuBangas (talk) 13:02, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Well summarized by all means. I don't really care whether he is 6'9 260 or 6'8 245, but to say that James as a part of his profession would never lie about his height is an incredible stretch; however, even that perhaps is reasonable conclusion than for one to actually think that a person or athlete's own statement about his body size is actually reliable. Rocky 19:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rock8591 (talk • contribs)

Just a quick note to all relying on the argument of comparing James' weight to Malone(or any other player) by visual means... You have absolutely no basis to make that statement. If you think you are some carnival wizard at guessing height and weight, then stick to playing games at the fair, but when it comes to scientific realities such as bone and muscle density, there is absolutely no way to accurately asses James' weight by "comparing" him to another player. None. Height can be assessed solely in an upright, back to back or measured comparison, and weight with scales. My only intention here is to maintain a sound level of reasoning.--Globa11s33 (talk) 23:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Saturday Night Live

I heard on either Pardon the Interuption ot the Whos Now discussion, that he was going to host SNL if anyone can confirm this with a date that would be nice. 24.111.164.146 04:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Just read on the SNL page that he will be hosting on September 29, 2007. 206.176.107.150 14:03, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Someone took the July announcement that he would host this past weekend. If he did in fact host, something should probably be added to the article if a good source can be found.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 22:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah he definitely hosted... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.176.107.150 (talk) 14:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Did Lebron even CONSIDER playing in college, and if so, for whom?

Did Lebron even consider playing in college or did he pretty much know from the getgo he was destined to go straight to the NBA? Of course, considering what he got just for his signing bonus I don't think he really needs a scholarship should he later choose to go to college when he's done playing basketball. ;)76.177.160.69 08:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

i doubt he ever SERIOUSLY considered college, but if he had gone he would have most likely gone to Akron with his fellow St. V&M teammates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ngoogs (talk • contribs) 15:14, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I remember that James made public that he considered University of Akron and Ohio State. 72.23.147.104 (talk) 21:59, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd say that makes sense seeing as how he was born/raised in Ohio and chose to stay in Cleveland even though he obviously could've made more money with another team.76.177.160.69 (talk) 02:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

LeBron considered Akron and Ohio State. Unfortunately, we can't add info unless it's properly cited. Burner0718 ^JibbaJabba! 03:18, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Jockbio source

The jockbio article should come in pretty handy for expanding this article. The jockbio articles have been cited in other NBA good and featured articles. Chensiyuan (talk) 13:21, 19 December 2007 (UTC) He could not have made anymore money than from cavs cause under NBA rules they get to offer him more until. so makes sense for him to stay —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.88.212.32 (talk) 19:25, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Expecting twins

I can't find information anywhere corroborating the claim that LeBron and his girlfriend are expecting twin girls in the spring. Where did that information come from? It's not supported by a ref or anything. Shouldn't it be taken out? 65.27.146.37 (talk) 15:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Ridiculous detail turning this into a fan page

Statements such as these:

"He set a franchise record for double-doubles in a playoff season with eight and became the first Cavalier and the first non-guard in NBA history to have at least seven assists in eight consecutive playoff games.[4]"

bloat Wikipedia articles and are unncessary detail. These are not basic, rudimentary and important achievements. These are little sidenotes, the likes of which should be included in a list of accomplishments rather than a main article, if they are to be included anywhere at all. This is supposed to be an encyclopedic entry and a biography, not a NBA stats page like at NBA.com. Take a look at the Michael Jordan article for a gold standard to abide by. After all, it's an FA. If we were to include all of these types of details on the Jordan article, it would be five times the length. But as is, it's the perfect length. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Give me more information (talk • contribs) 02:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Merger

This thread is not what you think. I suggest that we merge the High school career section into 1 section instead of 4 sub-sections. RC-0722 ^communicator/_kills 22:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

a

Also he is a guard not a forward —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.37.119.254 (talk) 01:49, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

He's listed as a small forward on the Cavs official roster. Burner0718 ^JibbaJabba! 19:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

James height, II

Guys, I'm getting tired of this. User:Zodiiak is again trying to revert my edits despite it is just what LeBron James said about his own height and weight: Said James, "I'm 6-9 260." It doesn't get any clearer. Yet, Zodiiak is still pointing on James' height and weight data on NBA.com, although the NBA does not measure it's players, a fact he hasn't realized in months. When is this going to stop? --Bender235 (talk) 17:34, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I asked to reach consensus, and although the majority of random ip addresses and users on Wikipedia continue to point out that we should go by what the official records are, as sorted by multiple sources, you continue to ignore those. Who said the NBA doesn't measure it's players? Where does it say that? How do you know? Let's just do an easy vote. If you agree with 6'8 type 1, if you agree with 6'9 type 2. That's as simple as it can be. We'll leave voting opened for a week, and at the end, whatever has the most is fine. That's all I have asked for in the past month. Is this fair? Zodiiak (talk) 17:42, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

We don't vote on WP; we attempt to reach a consensus through constructive conversations. RC-0722 ^247.5/1 17:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

If you read above, you'll see we have tried to do this for the past month or so and it has failed because this user continues to revert the original content. According to WP if there is a disagreement in the edit you bring it to the talk page before making the edits. A rule he has ignored and he has also ignored consensus above.Zodiiak (talk) 17:47, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Then I shall put in a request for full protection so we can discuss this civily. RC-0722 ^247.5/1 17:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

This is just plain wrong. Yes, we discussed this. However, Zodiiak wasn't able to name a single argument why we should trust NBA data, besides that it is "official" and that every other sports website copies it. But he never answered the fact that the NBA doesn't measure its player annually. They estimate weight changes, that's it. Just as they estimate height changes, although that doesn't happen very often — e.g. Kobe Bryant was listed 6-5 when he was drafted, and 6-7 in 2002, but is now listed at 6-6 for a couple of years. These are all estimations (except for the Draft meassurement). Same thing with Tim Duncan, as he was listed 7-0 in 2002, but now at 6-11. User:Zodiiak has yet to realize this fact. That's the only problem here. --Bender235 (talk) 21:23, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

A poll on James' height? Why not having a poll on adding "he's the best player in the world" on Kobe Bryant's article, and let his fans decide? That's ridiculous.

It's a question of which information you trust more: James' own words, or official NBA data. But you have to realize the fact that James can measure himself everyday, while the NBA only measured him at the 2003 NBA Pre-Draft camp. So do we leave 2003 data on Wikipedia, or do we update it? --Bender235 (talk) 17:53, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

How do you know the nba only measures/weighs him at the 2003 draft camp? Last year the nba had LeBron James at 240, this year 250. If they update his weight, you're telling me they will not update his height? And how do we know LeBron James is not exaggerating his height/weight? Plenty of people do this everyday. Also, isn't the infobox on Wiki designed to reflect a player's current statistics, as reported by the NBA? I mean, isn't that the most reliable source in this instance? I think, if anything, the alleged 6'9, 260lb issue should be cited within the article and not as it's main source. See how it was done at the Charles Barkley page, who was listed by the nba for years at 6'6, despite being closer to 6'4. Anyways, I'm putting in a request for mediation on this, because i'm tired of arguing points that everyone has already stated. Zodiiak (talk) 18:03, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

It's better to trust the official NBA data than to trust word of mouth. We can't tell if James was telling the truth until he actually gets measured by the NBA. —LOL (talk) 18:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

But this is never going to happen. The NBA does not measure its players. Never has and never will. Except for the Pre-Draft camp, at which James was measured in 2003. But he was barely 18 at that time. It's not beyond imagination that he has grown another inch. And what reason should he have to overexaggerate his size? A 5-10 point guard has a reason — before the Draft — to overexaggerate his size and say he's 6 feet tall. But James does not. --Bender235 (talk) 21:10, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

First, please prove that the NBA does not measure its players. Second, we cannot presume that he's telling the truth just because you can't think of a motive. Third, even if we use his motives to determine the validity of his statement, I'm sure there's a possibility that he's intentionally overstating his physical statistics in order to make himself look stronger than he actually is. If we say that James is 6'9" because of what he said, we might as well say that Patrick Ewing is 6'9" instead of 7'. —LOL (talk) 22:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Uhm, how do you want to verify James' statement? How am I supposed to prove that he said the truth? May I ask him to swear an oath? Do we send this to the Supreme Court? This is ridiculous. He said "I'm 6-9, 260". Does he have to hammer it into your head?

Oh, yes: The NBA doesn't measure players --Bender235 (talk) 23:13, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Now, you're starting to understand why James' statement should not be taken as the truth. Using his words as proof that he's 6'9" is just as ridiculous as sending this to the Supreme Court. NBA.com is more trustworthy because there is no conflict of interest, whereas James can say anything about himself. —LOL (talk) 23:31, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure, for NBA.com there's no conflict of interest. Same goes for every other media under the sun, and even for you and me. But is there even the slighest posibility that you would know James' height exactly? No, because you've never measured him. Just as NBA.com. Which means they don't know his height either. They estimate it. --Bender235 (talk) 09:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

The point is not whether or not NBA.com knows exactly his height; it is that James' statement—regardless of whether or not he knows his exact height—is not acceptable as proof, as I've explained above. Thus, the best source to use is NBA.com. —LOL (talk) 19:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I am somewhat in disbelief that an editor feels this passionate about a dispute over 1 inch and 10 pounds. Do we change it if James announced he's going on a hunger strike? What if he said he's 7 feet and 190 pounds; do we go by that?

The article quoted by Bender does say that the NBA doesn't measure players. But do you think the players' respective teams don't keep a close tab on the height and weight of their multi-million-dollar investments? Like, for example, requiring them to take annual physicals, which includes a height and weight measurement? Google around and you'll find some articles mentioning the player annual physicals in training camp. You can even find some photos of the Dallas Mavericks getting their height/weight measurements. in 2005. The article cited mentions that the NBA relies on teams for their numbers - "NBA spokesman Tim Frank said the league counts on its teams to give accurate measurements of their players..." Bender may have a point in saying that the NBA number may be fudgin' things a little, but then again, James is probably doing the same thing. (If anything, the article mentioned indicates they're both probably wrong.) As many readers pointed out, there's no way to truly know, unless Wikipedians start going to the locker rooms and breaking out the tape measures themselves. So we do the best with what we have, and the consensus seems to be that the best we have is the NBA's numbers. BrownHornet21 (talk) 18:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

• Part of the problem, as I see it, is that it's difficult to cite sources for information added to the infobox in this article. I think if we had a mechanism for citing sources in this infobox, some of this might be diffused. To that end, I've left a message at Template talk:Infobox NBA Player. -- JeffBillman (talk) 17:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand why we're even discussing this. Why wouldn't you just use the official listed height at NBA.com? It may not be the "true" height, but since when do we trust article subjects for objective information about themselves? Listed heights may be inaccurate, but they are the ones that the media agree to use, and more importantly, there's consistency that comes with getting all player data comes from a single official source. Remember that in Wikipedia, you're not seeking the "truth", but verifiable facts. Most of the time, the "truth" and "facts" are one and the same, but as far as physical attributes of NBA players is concerned, you want official facts, rather than the "truth", which isn't reliable anyway - they're usually guesses, i.e. comparing two players (and chances are, you're still using the other player's listed height as benchmark), or observed by single journalists and not backed up by other sources. --Mosmof (talk) 23:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. Agreed. Zodiiak (talk) 04:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. But don't forget that James 6-9 height is verifiable since we can link to his statement. Calling James' performance in Game 5 of the 2007 ECF "one of the greatest moments in postseason history" is also just based on somebody's statement, in that case Marv Alberts'. But it is verifiable, just as James height is. --Bender235 (talk) 09:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Not exactly - I think you misunderstand Wikipedia's idea of verifiability. What's verifiable here isn't that his height is 6'9" or that his Game 5 against the Pistons is one of the greatest performances of all time. Neither is a verified fact, since the former is based completely on the claim of the article subject himself (was he wearing socks? was the ruler properly calibrated? did anyone make sure he wasn't standing on his toes?), and the latter is never, ever verifiable because it's not a fact. What we can verify is that James thinks his height is 6'9", and that Marv considers LBJ's Game 5 to be one of the best ever. As far as basketball world is concerned, LeBron James is whatever he is listed at. It helps to think of NBA player heights like yardage in football - we accept that they're not the truth, but they are what we agree to use. --Mosmof (talk) 14:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem using the official listed height at NBA.com. But we should still state that's where we're getting the info, in the template. We should not presume that the reader will assume that's where the info comes... that's a lot of assumptions to make. -- JeffBillman (talk) 15:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

For consideration: "The only thing is, I laugh because LeBron James is 6-9, 260 pounds. I don't care how big they are, they're not bigger than that," assistant coach Mike D'Antoni said. ESPN ––Bender235 (talk) 00:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion

3O is meant for one-on-one disputes, and this appears to be beyond that already, but I'll chime in. I would way list as 6'8" or 6'9"(ref), and put in a ref tag a note of the two sources. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 20:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Great idea... except the infobox template as presently in use breaks when ref tags are added to height and weight. As I mentioned, I'm trying to resolve this issue at Template talk:Infobox NBA Player. -- JeffBillman (talk) 21:28, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd say we should insert 6-8 250 (or whatever NBA.com currently estimates) in the infobox, plus a footnote that James thinks he is 6-9, 260. --Bender235 (talk) 21:50, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

We could replace

| height_ft = 6
| height_in = 8

with

| height = {{ft in to m|ft=6|in=8|precision=2|abbr=yes}}<ref>Explanation</ref>

But does that mean we'll have to do the same for Patrick Ewing (6'9") and Jason Collins (6'8")? —LOL (talk) 00:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Ewing? Yes. But Collins? No. Because that's a journalists estimation. --Bender235 (talk) 11:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Hilarious. This is the same argument going here, but now you're going the other way. Collins said, ""In sneakers, with my orthotics, ankle braces and two pairs of socks, I'm a good 6-111/2." Zodiiak (talk) 14:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, he says he's 6-11 in shoes. All official NBA player heights are in shoes. --Bender235 (talk) 22:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Relying on an athlete's own words about his height is NONSENSE by all means. Rocky 08:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rock8591 (talk • contribs)

Lebron is 274lbs. Cited Wednesday December 10th on ESPN when the Cavs were playing the 76ers. it is offical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ohiostate427 (talk • contribs) 03:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a link for that claim? Is it in an official report or just some trivia that an employee said? His profile still says 250. —LOL ^T/_C 05:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Knicks

Can we talk about the rumors of him possibly joining the Knicks after the 2010 season? We talk about him possibly joining the Olympiacos so I believe that we should. Metfan722 (talk)

POV Complaint

it's obvious some boston fan got on here and put that LeBron is most famous for his flop against paul pierce with less than a minute left. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhurst1 (talk • contribs) 18:16, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Layout

• First off, I'd suggest registering on Wikipedia. Secondly, that's what separate Wikipedia articles would be for. --Reezy (talk) 07:06, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
• First off, I suggest if you are going to register you do your job. Someone just trashed this page, but thankfully I was here to fix it. Reezy..wtf..LMAO!!!!! I really don't have a problem with the layout. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.12.39.140 (talk) 02:20, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Can someone who is registered delete this paragraph? "Lebron James is also the evil bastard who insulted China's Culture by starring in a hateful Nike Ad that featured skewered and inaccurate caricatures of Kung Fu master, Immortal Maidens and Dragons, all figures sacred to Chinese Culture represented as horrific monsters to be humiliatingly defeated by him just to promote mere basketball shoes. The insulting ad was thankfully withdrawn from broadcast after righteous anger and demands for apology from the Chinese People" Cause I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.135.171.97 (talk) 23:26, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Position

I think this is misleading: "James is listed as a small forward, but is often classified as a point forward due to his ability to run the offense like a point guard" He isn't "often classified" as a point forward. He might have been called that once or twice, but in order to be classified as such it would have to exist. He's a versatile small forward. It might be useful to change it to something like: "Although he is listed as a small forward, James often takes on the roles associated with other positions. He frequently runs the offense as a point guard does. He also defends smaller and quicker shooting guards as well as bigger power forwards and even centers." BeholdMan —Preceding unsigned comment added by BeholdMan (talk • contribs) 08:30, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Endorsements

I believe that LeBron has a deal with State Farm in addition to the companies already listed. He's appeared in several commercials for them recently. Also, Sprite and Glaceau are both owned by Coca-Cola now; could it be said that he has a deal with Coca-Cola? —Preceding unsigned comment added by StanHater (talk • contribs) 03:11, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Lebron's height and weight

Lebron James as of 2009 is 6'9 with shoes on and weight 274 pounds —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dquaye101 (talk • contribs) 01:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

And the reliable source is...? —LOL ^T/_C 03:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

50+ point games

Should someone mention either of Lebron's 50+ point games, his career high 8 threes, or his 19 points in 2 minutes and 52 seconds.

Magic Johnson Interview

To all those fools who for the last year + have been trying to list Lebron as 6'9...It's established...He Said Tonight That He Is 6'8 and 250+ lbs.