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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 98.181.62.167 (talk) at 19:34, 6 July 2012 (→‎Michael Jackson: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Hotel California

H.California should be on list, if you count all shipments/sales (according to RIAA,CRIA,BPI,SNEP,ARIA...) it has sold nearly 22 million copies...

16,000,000 ... USA (16xPlatinum, 2001)
1,800,000 ... UK (6xPlatinum, 2006)
1,000,000 ... Canada (Diamond, 1988)
1,300,000 ... France (Diamond, 1993)
560,000 ... Australia (8xPlatinum, 1996)
500,000 ... Germany (Platinum, 1986)
400,000 ... Spain (4xPlatinum, 2001)
275,000 ... Netherlands (1)
135,000 ... New Zealand (9xPlatinum)
30,000 ... Finland
25,000 ... Austria (Gold, 1991)


"The Beatles"
The Beatles have sold more albums than any other aritst, but the list omits albums such as 'The White Album' which sold over 30 million and 'Abbey Road' which sold over 20 million. And do not forget other multi-million selling Beatles albums such as 'The Red Album' and 'The Blue Album'. This chart does not make senses. For example, we all know that 'Thriller' did not sell 110. Certified sales are less than 50 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.30.187 (talk) 11:06, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hotel California 's certifications from the first four countries alone add up to 20 million in sales. However, if you check the list of best-selling music artists, you will see that 110.8 million out of the 127.5 million records the band has sold were sold in the U.S., meaning that they probably weren't incredibly famous elsewhere.
It's no wonder then, that there appears to be no source (or very difficult-to-find sources) that claim 20 million+ in worldwide sales. Sorry. Mauri96 (talk) 03:04, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I added a certification table for the album and also added it to my list of albums-on-this-list that are ready to have there certification included in the table (see here for more details about including certs on the list). You can find my work here.--Mαuri’96 “...over the Borderline” 04:49, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reuters: BAD has sold 45 million copies!

""Bad" won two Grammy awards and sold more than 45 million copies around the world..."

Other sources:

Older sources:

--BadMuroZ (talk) 13:13, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If we look to the official certifications of the album, as summarized in the album's article (Bad (album)), than it's clear that the 45 million figure is inflative and even impossible. The 45 million is maybe inclusive the sale of the singles?

Most of the above mentioned sources are unreliable, only the Reuters source can be determined as 'reliable', but also Reuters can make errors. All the sources are very recent, so it seems that an error was included in the first publication and that a lot of (unreliable) magazines have taken over the unrealistic figure.Christo jones (talk) 22:32, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Certifications

Country Certification
Australia 6x Platinum[1]
Austria 4x Platinum[2]
Canada 7x Platinum[3]
Europe 1x Platinum[4]
Finland Gold[5]
France Diamond[6]
Germany 4x Platinum[7]
Hong Kong Platinum[8]
Mexico Platinum + Gold[9]
Netherlands 6x Platinum[10]
New Zealand 9x Platinum[11]
Spain 3x Platinum[12]
Sweden 2x Platinum[13]
Switzerland 5x Platinum[14]
United Kingdom 13x Platinum[15]
United States 8x Platinum[16]

Sales

Region Sales
Brazil 1,500,000[17]
China 250,000+[18]
France 1,289,400+[19]
Japan 1,000,000[20]
Mexico 450,000+[21]
Netherlands 500,000+[22]
Spain 400,000+[23]
UK 3,959,000[24]
US 10,000,000[25]

|}

Just because the certifications do not add up to the estimated sales, as far as we know, does not mean it doesnt not merit inclusion in this article. If certifications were the sole criteria for inclusion in this article the list will be turned upside down and inside out easily. If you were to take the time to select any album (Go ahead I checked) on the list you will clearly see that most of the albums certifications do not exactly add up to the estimated amount. Some by a great distant. Yahoo Music/reuters is used a few times on this list as a reliable source. So there is no reason for it to be included for BAD. I have a recommendation for you Christo and Mauri, the same raw basic recommendation I gave to the List of best selling music artists a few years back that was built upon by Harout72 and others, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists/Archive_10#Certified_Sales_and_Estimated_sales maybe it will be more satisying to have certified units column for some of the greater sellers of the list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists .It worked out great for Harout72 on that page and so I believe it can be the same for you mauri or whoever. The Almighty King (talk) 09:43, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone just change it to 45 million copies its kinda obvious that it has sold that much... plus it will sell more with the Pepsi campaign and Bad 25 release this summer... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.87.203 (talk) 03:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Estimated and Certified are two different parallel lines though some try to link the two.Their conclusion will almost ways be different. But if we're joining them, then go to all of MJ's pages and put your original research as his worldwide estimated album sales. Then go to every artist page of the last 65 YEARS, (Elvis,Beatles,James Brown, Rolling Stones, U2) scroll down to all the albums that they have put out, and just disregard the estimated sales of their albums and put the certifications as their worldwide estimated album sales. A pointless effort. An accepted reliable source like Yahoo Reuters is still acceptable regardless of what some may see as inflated. Most albums certification DO NOT, (parrot mode) DO NOT add up to their estimated amount but it is what it is as Wikipedia allows for reliable sources to be the backbone of all articles of their web pages despite what some may believe as exaggerated, or recycled misinformation. Reuters is reliable until a later article of the same page can prove to it to be otherwise. And if you can, can you stop attacking Thriller every chance you get? This is an online encyclopedic webpage and not a blog spot. CaThe Almighty King (talk) 07:51, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe we need to work with ranges in this list. Less than a week ago, there was one source saying that "Bad" sold 45 million copies. Before the moment that this source was published, all the sources were talking about 30 million copies. We should be very careful to include (almost without thinking) such an extremely inflative figure, only because one source introduced a false figure. Just as for Thriller, I think it's better to work with a range (30-45 million).Christo jones (talk) 12:40, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with including ranges is that before long many fans will see it as an outlet to post more and more inflated sales figures.
On a related topic, I agree with The Almighty King that adding a certified sales column would be beneficial to the article. I have personally already looked for gold and platinum awards and inserted certification tables for albums like Grease, Can't Slow Down and Private Dancer.--Mauri96 (talk) 16:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good to me Christo jones. If anybody can make this page the same level as list of best selling music artist its definitely you Mauri96 :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Almighty King (talk • contribs) 02:34, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, but I must admit, I'm not nearly as good (or experienced) an editor as Harout72, the user responsible for making the list of best-selling artists as good as it is today.
In any case, adding a certified sales column for every single album (for that is what I plan to do) will take quite a while, especially considering I'm not going to let Wikipedia interfere with my schoolwork anymore. I am in the last year of the IB Diploma, after all.--Mauri96 (talk) 21:34, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If anyone wants to get started in my absence, here is a list of some albums that I confirm have certifications--Mauri96 (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've gotten started on the certifications column. I've done The Immaculate Collection as a test and this is what it's going to look like. What I essentially did was go through the history of the list of best-selling music artists and copy the code word-for-word. Because of this, we've lost the centering and color, which, if anyone knows how to insert back in, can be recovered.--Mαuri’96 “...over the Borderline” 22:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why ONLY Michael Jackson's album sales displayed in range figure ?

Michael Jackson's album figures are always shown in range display : Thriller between 65-110 millions, Bad between 30-45 millions ??? Why can't we do the same with the rest of list !! I get the feeling that when it comes to Michael Jackson there is this Corporatism against him. Either we put the last figure available or we apply the same "range system" to the whole list for each album. That does not fit with wikipedia standard. (Readerweb (talk) 20:41, 2 July 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Why does wikipedia hate creed ??

THEY HAVE SOLD OVER FIFTY MILLION ALBUMS WORLDWIDE AND THIER ALBUM HUMAN CLAY HAS SOLD OVER THIRTY MILLION RECORDS WORLD WIDE PLEASE INCLUDE THEM PLEEAASSEEE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.11.0 (talk) 12:02, 7 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any WP:RS for that? Actually, even if you DO have WP:RS they may not get included if the editors don't like them.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.116.62 (talk) 12:05, 7 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, that "editors don't like them" is a thing of the past. If you give us a calm, logical argument for an album you want to be added, we'll definitely consider it and most likely add it. Just take a look at this discussion.
Human Clay 's certifications in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Germany, plus actual sales of 11,579,000 in the US total a mere 12,684,000 copies. Thirty million therefore seems a bit of a stretch, but if you can find an WP:RS, rest assured we'll consider it.--Mauri96 (talk) 17:10, 7 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NONSENSE according to many sources and even wikipedia creed human clay sells seven mil in NZ+five mil in aus + six mil in canada +eleven in USA and Gold in ger even wikipedia says tht the sales are over thirty mil so i not thirty mil it should certainly be included in the twenty to twenty nine mil category. another thing is tht see thier discography and cont they should evn be included on list of best selling artists — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.23.10 (talk) 12:27, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Seven million in New Zealand? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.116.62 (talk) 14:56, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're confusing platinum certifications with sales and shipments. The only country in the world where 1x Platinum=1,000,000 copies is the United States. I strongly suggest you check international award levels and then THIS chart.
The best-selling album of all time in the US, Thriller, has a 29x Platinum certification for 29 million copies shipped.
Tell me, if the United States population is 313 million and its ALL-TIME biggest-selling album shipped only ONE copy for every NINE people, how could Human Clay sell seven million copies in New Zealand, a country with a population of 4.4 million??--Mauri96 (talk) 22:43, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ok sorry — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.63.14.166 (talk) 06:45, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

MILLENNIUM 40 MIL

Backstreet Boys Millennium has sold 40 million copies. It was listed as that for years until someone came up with an unreliable source for 30 mil. IT HAS SOLD 40 MILLION. GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.220.231.60 (talk) 01:14, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Original isn't always better. Especially when "original" is accused of inflating and exaggerating sales.
You might want to check this table (remember, European awards include sales from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and the UK).
This discussion might help, too.
We have certification requirements for a reason, you know.--Mauri96 (talk) 00:25, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

TLC Album.

maurie.... hi.... TLC CrazySexyCool.... sold over 22 million... please include on the list... is deserved.. http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/26/11411928-tlc-reuniting-for-a-tour-with-virtual-lisa-left-eye-lopes?lite. 182.3.93.79 (talk) 12:53, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 25 June 2012

Once again..... the TLC Album... crazysexycool, have claim to have sold 22 million copies. according from this sources.... http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/26/11411928-tlc-reuniting-for-a-tour-with-virtual-lisa-left-eye-lopes?lite... please include

182.9.155.171 (talk) 14:55, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Callanecc (talk) 02:39, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 25 June 2012

Britney Spears's ...Baby one more time Album.

there is two different sources which claims the sales of Britney debut to sold...

30 million... http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,409286,00.html

and 27 million... http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2012-05-14/aqrZugk.m5R4.html

but i think the sources from Bloomberg is the better sources, because is recently, unlike the sources from Guardian which is 12 years ago...

thank you mauries...

182.9.155.171 (talk) 15:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Partly done: I went with the Bloomberg reference for two reasons: one as requester stated it was the latest; and two, as well it was the lower number. Callanecc (talk) 02:43, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Elton John... Elton John's Greatest Hits

In the last three years, in this list...Madonna's The Immaculate Collection have claim to sold 30 million copies, and has been stated as the best selling compilation by a solo artist by many sources...

and now Elton John's Greatest Hits have claim 32 million by custom channelItalic text, more than Madonna Immaculate... which makes the title of the best selling compilation by a solo artist went on to Elton John...

is this reliabel?.... i have try to find a reliable sources for 32 million claim of Elton John... but it seem's Custom Channel is the ONLY ONE sources...

again, is this reliable...

This list is very prestigious... so please, if that claim not reliable... please remove.... gracias... 39.214.9.71 (talk) 11:41, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 28 June 2012

first of all, thank you for your quick response to include TLC album and re-new Britney debut sources claim.... but i still uncomfortable with george michael's faith album.... the sources not conected with the internet... i have better sources, and i think... is better one..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1351178/Its-high-time-restore-Faith-George-Michael.html

what do you think sir?..

 Done– First off I am not a sir. Second of all, thank you for the source for Faith.--Mαuri’96 “...over the Borderline” 16:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

182.9.137.113 (talk) 13:54, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 28 June 2012

and again for Iron Butterfly.... how about this sources ? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-15/iron-butterfly-seeks-royalty-payments-40-years-after-in-a-gadda-da-vida-.html..

gracias...


hello Cyberpower (or whatever your name as editor in wikipedia).

if you use your Brain, rather than your anger... you will be understand what i have mention on the earlier request....

please see the sources of Iron Butterfly sources on the list, it seem's for me (remind me if i'm wrong) not connected to the site, same condition like the sources of george michael's sources... making look NOT reliable...

so, i give this sources... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-15/iron-butterfly-seeks-royalty-payments-40-years-after-in-a-gadda-da-vida-.html..

and again, IF YOU LOOK INSIDE, it was stated on the article, that In a gadda da vida... sold 30 million according from the Band website, so if this sources reliable, so i think it will be better to change the old sources of that album... which is seem's NOT properly...

so, i need YOUR CONSIDER as editor...

and the most important to you...Cyberpower... like you said that MANY different people will read/look this talk page.... please use some respect... I really shock with your H E L L word... especially because from the first talk, i use a good word without any H3LL or F#CK word...

it is so embarrassing, you call yourself an editor... if you can't put some respect in your word.... i know, i'm just a reader... but please, reader is also a human.... same like you i guess.... i have heart and could be hurt...

gracias...

39.212.188.109 (talk) 02:07, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

182.9.137.113 (talk) 13:59, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.—cyberpower ChatOnline 23:30, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 29 June 2012

hi... mauri... sorry for calling you sir... and sorry because there's so many edit request from me about this list.... honestly, i really like this list... and i hope the list will always up-dated..

and for the Bodyguard soundtrack... its claim 44 million.... but i have found 45 million claim from this sources... is this reliable ?.. gracias..

http://www.huliq.com/10282/whitney-houston-should-be-left-rest-peace-while-death-not-suspicious

39.213.149.121 (talk) 05:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: Your seems to be reliable but spams the hell out of me. Could you consider providing a different sites? Please also note that different people review edit requests so be please be sure you are specific in your requests so every editor can understand it.—cyberpower ChatOnline 23:34, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ok.... continue..

i'm apologize to put some H 3 L L to you... just suggest, if you don't like my edit request... then DO NOT EVER, reply or comment on my request... let another editor's answering or... just deleted from this talk.... but do not say another H 3 L L word on behalf of me...

and... i have found a sources from BET (Black Entertainment Television) for 45-m claim of The Bodyguard soundtrack....

http://www.bet.com/news/music/2012/01/26/adele-s-21-sets-new-records.html

maurie... what do you think?... is this acceptable... thank u...

39.212.188.109 (talk) 05:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This source seems reliable for the 45 million claim. Given that Whitney just passed away and has sold 5 million in certified sales alone between before and after, updating the figure makes sense.--Mαuri’96 “...over the Borderline” 01:30, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Color

I propose a change to the colors so color blind users can distinguish the colors easily.

Colors

Studio Albums

Greatest Hits & Compilations

Soundtracks

Sample table with the new color scheme:

Artist Album Released Genre Sales (millions) Source
Michael Jackson Thriller 1982 Pop / Rock / R&B 65-110 [26][27]
Pink Floyd The Dark Side of the Moon 1973 Progressive rock 50 [28]
AC/DC Back in Black 1980 Hard rock / Heavy metal 49 [29]
Michael Jackson Bad 1987 Pop / Rock 30-45 [30][31][32][33][34][35]
Whitney Houston / Various artists The Bodyguard 1992 Soundtrack 44 [36]
Meat Loaf Bat Out of Hell 1977 Hard rock 43 [37]
Eagles Their Greatest Hits (1971–1975) 1976 Rock 42 [38]
Various artists Dirty Dancing 1987 Soundtrack 42 [39]
Bee Gees / Various artists Saturday Night Fever 1977 Soundtrack 40 [40]
Fleetwood Mac Rumours 1977 Rock 40 [41]
Shania Twain Come On Over 1997 Country / Pop 40 [42]

Actually only the Greatest Hits & Compilations color needs to be changed because while the previous color scheme works fine for people with protanopia and deuteranopia, people with tritanopia see both blue and green as greenish color so it was almost indistinguishable. Yellow appears pinkish to people with tritanopia so it will be easy for them to distinguish yellow from blue (pinkish and greenish). People with protanopia and deuteranopia also have no problem distinguishing yellow from blue, however, I shifted the color for Studio Albums a little bit to give more contrast so people with tritanopia could distinguish that from the Soundtracks greyish color more easily.--Krystaleen 15:10, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Sure, great idea. You sure know what you're talking about. If it improves the usability of this page, I'm all for it.--Mαuri’96 “...over the Borderline” 19:29, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Great, I'm gonna start making changes.--Krystaleen 03:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 June 2012

Maurie... or any editors.... sorry, if i'm re-writing request for the Bodyguard soundtrack 45m-claim.... because this sources i think very reliable, because it is use for Mariah Carey's Daydream claim.... BET... thank you

http://www.bet.com/news/music/2012/01/26/adele-s-21-sets-new-records.html

39.212.188.109 (talk) 05:47, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. The source appears reliable, but I don't know what you're using it to support. What addition or change do you want to make to the article? Please be precise. Rivertorch (talk) 06:10, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sales

Why is it here, Madonna's Ray of Light album is said to have sold 20 million copies but on her discography page it is said to have only sold 16 million? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperCell3000 (talk • contribs) 06:14, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by "that". If you're talking about Ray of Light, I kept it because, as you mention, there are lower claims than 20 million. The album's certifications support those sales and almost the 20 million, too.
Remember, the requirements say that:
albums released "between 1990-2000 are required to have their lowest available claimed figures supported by 50-70%".
This means that albums released in 1998 need their sales claim to be supported by ~54% in certifications. Since Ray of Light 's gold and platinum awards add up to 12.505 million (7 million in Europe, 4 million in the US, 0.70 in Canada, 0.25 million in Mexico, 0.25 million in Brazil, 0.21 in Australia, 0.02+ million in Hong Kong, 0.015 New Zealand and 0.06 million in Argentina) I kept the album.--Mαuri’96 “...over the Borderline” 18:56, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

May i?...

yes, it seem's still confusing for Ray of Light sales claim.... The Guardian proudly claim the 16m-claim... but several highly reliable sources also bravely claim the 20m sales such as... BBC, VH1, The Independent, The National, and Vogue...

and even Maurie already said about the requirement certification for album that release between 1990-2000... and Ray of Light acceptable to be include on this exclusive club...

There's a lot of Madonna hater.... let their vandalims the album article... but don't ever touching this list... thank u.. 182.3.129.168 (talk) 05:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well why not change the sales figures on her discography page to 20 million? I think it's only fair to have her sales be the same everywhere on Wikipedia. I dont think it makes sense to have different sales all over the website. It is confusing (SuperCell3000 (talk) 01:36, 4 July 2012 (UTC))[reply]

The Beatles

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band is not a compilation/greatest hits album. It is a studio album that was eventually used as a soundtrack. Meanwhile, their album "1" is a greatest hits album. (SuperCell3000 (talk) 08:48, 4 July 2012 (UTC))[reply]

I think what he means is that they should be colored as such which they are not. (98.181.62.167 (talk) 21:50, 4 July 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Michael Jackson

Why is it that Michael Jackson's albums are the only albums to show ranges? The fact that certifications are not always 100% accurate should allow everyone's ranges to be shown. Better would be no ranges shown because it seems that Wikipedia has been glorifying Michael for a long time now (98.181.62.167 (talk) 19:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC))[reply]

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