Talk:Okra

Excision decision

I'd work on this more except it's time to go out and have a few. In the meanwhile I thought I'd leave a note of what I excised:

"People who have tried okra tend to either like it or hate it. The haters usually cite the "slimy" mouthfeel. Those of us who like okra savor the texture, the delightful taste, comparable to - but not at all the same as - green pepper."

Sentence one: Yes, in my experience that's true.

sentence three: comparable to green peppers? In what way? I must have had more vegetables in my time than you; okra is in no way similar to green peppers aside from being green and turning a bit soft and slimy if you cook it for far too long (which, IMHO is also the problem with how squash, spinach, and collards are often cooked). Koyaanis Qatsi

I think you're right, KF. I wasn't paying as close attention as I should have when modifying the article. -- Zoe

Did you mod that part? I never would have guessed; your other writing is clear and easy to understand. Anyway, I'm not sure what the original author intended, and I don't trust myself to keep editing it tonight. I'll look at it in the morning. Best, Koyaanis Qatsi

Actually, I took out the most egregious of the personal data listed here, but just sort of glossed over that other stuff. -- Zoe

Gumbo

Who calls Okra "Gumbo"? Sure, it's a featured ingredient in gumbo, but I have never heard such. (I live in the south and grew up on both.) Streyeder

I've removed this term. I've never heard it used that way either, and the first 20 pages of Google image search didn't have any pictures of okra when I searched for 'gumbo'. In addition, if it is added back, it shouldn't be in bold unless there is a disambig at gumbo. -SCEhardT 13:50, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Okra can be called Gumbo, it ought to be added back

Okra is called Gumbo guibo and guimyombo in some parts of Africa. "Gumbo" would be a written version of phonetical pronunciation. In the Gullah language spoken in South Carolina and Georgia, Gumbo means Okra. Gumbo and Okra are two words originating from African languages referring to the same plant. 67.171.65.167 05:27, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Poisonous

I couldn't find any reference to Okra being poisonous. Perhaps the person who wrote that was confusing it with another plant?

As Paracelsus said, all things are poisonous, only the dossage makes the difference. Okra, I've heard from several sources (I'll see if I can make it official), is the most toxic plant regularly consumed by humans. That doesn't make it specifically poisonous, you're not going to die eating an Okra or anything, but it is an interesting fact and a useful antidote to the claims that "all natural" foods are somehow tested by centuries of experience. They really aren't, and there's no telling what surprises are going to show up when our food plants are actually tested. --Suttkus 12:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

historical uses of this plant

Are the pods of the okra the only parts of the plant that are put to commercial use? What kind of root or tuber does it produce?

The local grocery story offers packages of frozen okra pods that have been cut into segments, but it looks like it is impossible to buy the complete pods, or the stems or the leaves, for that matter.

How many parts of the okra are edible?

Is it poisonous to eat the leaves, or the roots?

Does it produce a tap root like the carrot does? Or is it more like a horse radish root? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.177.27.21 (talk • contribs) .

Whole pods are often available in grocery stores in Houston, TX - I assume the Portland area would be the same but you might need to wait for warmer weather. You could buy seeds and grow some yourself come spring :-) -SCEhardT 13:50, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Okra does not do well in cooler climates. It is one of the last crops planted in early summer in the deep south. Ground temperature must be over 75 or the seeds will rot. I have my doubts about cascade okra without greenhouse or hotbox supplementation. It is best boiled, batter fried, or in gumbo dishes. I am unaware of any attepmts to eat parts other than the pods and seeds. Whole pods are available in most areas where okra can be grown. I have never heard of any part of the okra being poisionous but in light of the fact that rhododendron, hemlock, oak nuts, and potatoes contain poisons, it is best to air on the side of caution. Okra is not a root drop and has no exceptional root or tuber system. ( are you confusing it with kudzu, which has legumous sacs?) It may be possible to make some cooking enhancements to the vegetable, but it is nutritious to all and tasty to most who eat it in the aforementioned forms. The original African okra strains produce very large pods before becoming woody and are more slimy than the popular hybrids, like clemson spineless okra. The original varities take more time to come to production, making them a near impossibility in short-season scenarios. Georgia Bob rdr4@alltel.net

Is Okra usually available in salted dishes? If the seeds in the pods are allowed to ripen, can they be popped like popcorn, or roasted like sesame? I've seen candied confections with ground sesame seeds, so I'd think that something similar should be possible with okra. As for the growing season in the foothills to the Cascade mountains in Oregon, it's so short it significantly limits the production of tomatoes. Last frost at the 1100 feet above sea level is somewhere around May 15, and first frost is somewhere around mid-to-early October. So that probably rules out raising okra in this part of the world, unless the okra can be hybridized with some other cold-loving species of the mallow family to produce something frost resistant.

Somebody has already added this information to the article, but even before that, searching Google for "okra greens" or "okra leaves" would have revealed the answer. Or you could have checked "what links here" to see a link from List of plants with edible leaves.

Eat your greens and be healthy. ♥ Okragreens 22:41, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Fried okra, done correctly (as I will elucidate on in a moment) is quite good. It is crunchy, has a taste entirely it's own and goes well with other foods. Too many psuedo-southern restaurants serve fried okra that has been battered. Done that way, it's nothing more than boiled okra with a breading shell around it. That is not the correct way to cook it. Okra pods, about the size of an adults middle finger at harvest (cut the stem with a knife to harvest)are cut into 1/4" transverse slices. They can then be dropped in a quart food storage bag containing 1/2 cup ( or any other amount you wish) of a corn meal, seasoned with salt, and the bag zipped closed and shaken vigorously to make sure the corn meal comes into contact with all sides of the sliced okra. The slime from the interior of the okra slices causes the corn meal/salt mixture to aadhere to the slices. Remove the okra from the bag and fry in a large diameter pan in enough pre-heated peanut oil to cover the slices when laid flat. Fry until golden brown (about 5 minutes). Quickly remove from pan and place on a paper towel covered plate to allow excess oil to drain. Salt to taste, if needed (very subjective on the amount of salt needed) and eat immediately. If left to get cold, slices become limp. Crisp tastes better. This recipe, or actually, cooking method came from my Grandmother, Mamie Stephens Williams, Social Circle, Georgia, circa 1930's. Jody E. Huneycutt, Ellijay, GA. My source is personal experience and 60 years of eating okra cooked this way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.44.194.37 (talk) 07:54, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Kidney Stones

I've heard that okra can be used to painlessly flush out certain types of kidney stones. Three fingers cut into strips and left in 2 quarts of water for several hours. Then squeeze the juice into the 2 quarts of water. Drink it and it will turn some types of kidney stones to sludge, apparently! Isn't it also know as a kidney vetch? I might be totally wrong about this but that's what I've heard. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.255.36.5 (talk • contribs) .

Callaloo

Callaloo is an important staple in the Caribbean, and according to Wikipedia's current entry on its preparation, Callaloo is almost always made with okra. Okra is also used in another Caribbean staple Coo Coo. Due to the importance of these dishes in Caribbean cuisine, they should not be omitted from the article on Okra. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.109.6 (talk • contribs)

Pronunciation

What is the proper pronunciation of Okra? -Tombrend 02:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

People of Igbo descent pronounce it "uh-KROH" but there are other derivate forms, such as "uh-KRAH", (note that "okra" is an Igbo word). I have always heard it as the former though. See answers.com for Western soundbite.

 Don't know about Igbo, but in the southeastern U.S., it's pronounced O-kra, oddly enough, just as it's spelled.  How about that?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.44.194.37 (talk) 08:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC) 

merging and history

I have moved Abelmoschus esculentus here as the most common name. However, apparently two separate articles existed and the content at Okra was merged to Abelmoschus esculentus. When I moved the page here I had to combine the histories of the two pages. Certain revisions may thus appear as if an edit war is occurring, when it is simply alternate revisions of the two articles, when they existed separately. - BanyanTree 02:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Relevance to Christ

The lack of a word for okra in the ancient languages of India suggests that it arrived there after the birth of Christ.

Is this time comparison appropriate, or would it be better to refer to the Common Era/Before Common Era?

excessive languages

I have excised sentences that simply state the name of okra is different languages. The paragraph, in its original incarnation is directly correlated to the origin and distribution paragraph that immediately follows it. The point of the paragraph became increasingly muddled as users, apparently not seeing the section as a whole, treated it as an entry point for listing the names in languages they knew. A list of names in various languages is accessible through the interwiki links in the left hand column of the article. - BanyanTree 06:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Origin

The material I have seen suggests a South Asian rather than an Ethiopian origin for Okra. Lavateraguy (talk) 14:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The citation at the end of that paragraph to Texas A&M University covers the Ethiopian origin claim. It's certainly possible that it's wrong, but you would need to provide citations to credible sources claiming a South Asian origin to include it in the article. - BanyanTree 22:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

"There are two hypotheses concerning the geographical origin of A. esculentus. Some authors, arguing that one putative ancestor (A. tuberculatus) is native to Uttar Pradesh (north India), suggest that the species originated from this geographic area. Others, on the basis of ancient cultivation in East Africa and the presence of the other putative ancestor (A. ficulneus), suggest that the area of domestication is north Egypt or Ethiopia, but no definitive proof is available today." (Okra, Hamon and van Sloten, pp 350-357 in Smartt & Simmons, Evolution of Crop Plants (1995))

"All species and forms distinguished by VAN BORSSUM WAALKES (1966) are present in South East Asia, which he considers the centre of distribution. The three cultivated species are now almost cosmopolitan, whereas the wild species (including A. tuberculatus) are confined to Asia and Australia, with the exception of A . ficulneus, which is also present in tropical Africa . The Asiatic origin of the genus is hardly contested, but there are several theories on the origin of the cultigen A . esculentus, which variably consider India (MASTERS, 1875), Ethiopia (DE CANDOLLE, 1883; VAVILOV, 1951) and West Africa (CHEVALIER, 1940; MURDOCK, 1959) as the centre of origin. Cytogenetical observations suggest that A. esculentus is an amphidiploid having a genome in common with A. tuberculatus, a wild species from India. The origin of the complementary genome has not yet been elucidated." (Euphytica 31 241-252 (1982))

There's also a 72 chromosome cytotype of okra which would be an alternative candidate to A. ficulneus as a parent of 130 chromosome okra. Lavateraguy (talk) 23:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Why not actually edit the article and include these sources, rather than posting on the talk page? - BanyanTree 23:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. According to a source I have found (a paper presented by Dr Zemede Asfaw of Addis Ababa University), Okra's name in Amharic is Bamia, which is cognate with the Arabic bāmyah. So if Okra originated in the Ethiopian highlands, then Amharic -> Arabic -> Middle East, Greece, Iran, etc. If, on the other hand, Okra originated in South Asia, then [appropriate source] -> Arabic -> Amharic. (Research into the history of Ethiopian foodstuffs is still in its beginnings.) -- llywrch (talk) 19:30, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

With regards to the proposed Nigerian origin of okra, the study cited for this was published before the separate status of Abelmoschus caillei was recognised. A study including accessions of both species would show greater diversity in West Africa, without necessarily providing evidence for a West African origin. (The paper is paywalled, so I can't evaluate it.) Lavateraguy (talk) 15:26, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Hardcopies are also available at a number of libraries, depending on where you are:

http://www.worldcat.org/title/botanical-gazette/oclc/5667172

In the mean time, here are a few quotes that I think fall within fair use:

This study involved 296 okra (Abelmoschus esculentus [L.] Moench) accessions. The 81 accessions of Nigerian origin included 70 from the southern states of Nigeria and 11 from the Institute for Agricultural Research, Zaria, Nigeria. The remaining 215 accessions from 14 countries were obtained from the Southern Regional Plant Introduction Station, United States Department of Agriculture, Georgia; Division of Plant Introduction of the Indian Agri- cultural Research Institute, New Delhi; Kagawa University, Japan; and Instituto Agronomico Seqao de Olericultura, Sao Paulo, Brazil.

Reviewing the origin debate:

The origin of okra is controversial. Bates (1968) considered okra to be of Asiatic origin primarily on the basis that the related wild species of the genus are all native to southern and southeastern Asia. DeCandolle (1886) suggested an undoubtedly African origin on the basis of records indicating the existence of wild plants in the Nile valley and in Ethiopia. Records also showed that okra was cultivated prior to A.D. 1216 in Egvpt. Bunting and Kuckuck (1970) reported wild okra was gathered by the partly nomadic Arab tribes in the Blue Nile region of Sudan. Harlan (1971) listed okra as one of the crops domesticated in West Africa.

Then, after producing a minimum-spanning-tree with ten groups:

An examination of the country of origin of each accession and the group to which it belonged revealed that, while the introduced accessions clustered together to form groups I-VII with no particular correlation with their sources of origin, all of the locally collected accessions assembled rather neatly into three well-defined groups (VIII- X).

(where locally means Nigerian, I believe.) All three excerpts above are from H. R. Chheda and C. A. Fatokun, Numerical Analysis of Variation Patterns in Okra (Abelmoschus esculentus [L.] Moench), Botanical Gazette, Vol. 143, No. 2 (Jun., 1982), pp. 253-261, (c) 1982 The University of Chicago Press.

Fanyavizuri (talk) 16:09, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Sans context, that last quotation appears to argue against a West African origin. Assuming that at least one of the groups represents Abelmoschus caillei then Nigerian accessions fall into at most 2 or 9 groups. Lavateraguy (talk) 19:54, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Point taken; after further reading of more recent papers, it seems that neither Asian nor African studies have recently been willing to stake a solid claim on the origin of okra; perhaps paraphrasing the following quote would give a more accurate summary of the current state of research:

The centre of origin of okra is uncertain, but centre [sic] of diversity exits [sic] in West Africa, India and South East Asia

from Sawadogo, Ouedraogo, Balma, Ouedraogo, Gowda, Botanga and Timko, The use of cross species SSR primers to study genetic diversity of okra from Burkina Faso, African Journal of Biotechnology, Vol. 8, No. 11 (Jun., 2009), pp. 2476-2482, (c) 2009 Academic Journals. Fanyavizuri (talk) 19:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd want to see a less secondary source for a South East Asian centre of diversity. For the genus Abelmoschus as a whole this is the case, by while Okra is grown in South East Asia, and they have their own varieties, I didn't get the impression that this area was anymore a centre of diversity than the southeastern United States (which has circa 100 varieties).

I've held off editing the section about origins because I would have to commit original research (synthesis) to produce put something together. Lavateraguy (talk) 14:46, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

All good points. I like the revision you recently did to the section; would you mind if I throw in a bunch of citations for the discussion you have written? Fanyavizuri (talk) 21:17, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Go ahead.

With regards to the claims that it is native to Egypt and Ethiopia, Boulos's Flora of Egypt doesn't mention it. (It does mention Hibiscus sabdariffa as an escape from cultivation, so it would seem that okra isn't established in the wild in Egypt even as a naturalised plant.) My biogeography pages don't have it wild anywhere in north east Africa, but I only have through sources for Somalia. It is naturalised in some countries in southern Africa. Lavateraguy (talk) 22:22, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Of course naturalised can mean as little as casual, and it's not always easy to tell how the word is being used. Lavateraguy (talk) 00:51, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

this site claims a Sanskrit name for okra. There's no guarantee that the name is truly ancient (compare the vocabulary of classical and medieval Latin), but one would expect a recent Sanskrit name to be nearer to bhindi. Lavateraguy (talk) 15:15, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Taste?

As this plant doesn't grow in temperate regions and it doesn't seem to be commonly imported here, I've never encountered okra or its derived dishes. What I'm missing in this article is a description of what it tastes like, for example translated to other vegetables or herbs. Am I right in assuming it's quite distinct? -- MiG (talk) 13:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

No actually. It doesn't really taste like much of anything; perhaps it could be compared to cucumber in being clean and crisp in taste. I mainly notice it because of the crunch it adds to food - because of the large, almost hollow-feeling seeds - as well as the mucilaginous qualities that thicken dishes. - BanyanTree 01:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm I reckon it has a spicy aspect to it. Much milder than a chilli but definitely something there. 59.167.58.54 (talk) 02:05, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

it has a slight but distinctive taste. Some people compare it to the taste of soap. Maproom (talk) 15:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Slimy

Congratulations, Wikipedia, on your ability to write an article on Okra that does not even once use the word "slimy". I wonder if your article on wasabi fails to mention "spicy hotness"? 141.151.23.70 (talk) 22:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

okra seed preparation, preservation etc. for home gardening

I am inviting tips for care to be taken for collection and preservation of okra seeds when one tries to prepare them from the fruit for individual home gardening. I shall appreciate the guidance - HSParekh

It's very simple. Let the pod dry, either on the plant on after it's been cut off. Cut out the seeds, seal in an airtight container and wait until spring. For planting, wait until soil is at least 65 degrees F to plant. Take a file and scruff a smal area on each seed before planting. Plant about 3/4" deep. Fertilize heavily, water heavily and look out for Japanese beetles in late June/early July. (The fertilizer and water requirements aren't really necessary, but do result in faster growth and more pods) Harvest when about the size of your middle finger, cook according to the fired okra recipe above and enjoy. Jody Huneycutt

Nutritional Information

The nutritional information seems a little vague to me; it just says "Okra" not "cooked okra" or "raw Okra", just Okra. I am wondering how someone would go about fixing that? 173.48.18.128 (talk) 13:30, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I added the template with USDA info. If you want to see the info for okra under various forms of preparation, check out http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/. - BanyanTree 04:08, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Bhindi

I don't know how to produce a citation for the British-Indian use of the name "bhindi". But if you go into almost any of the many Indian restaurants in the British Isles, you will find "bhindi" on the menu; and if you order it, you will get okra. See for instance http://www.jamalsoxford.com/menu/vegetarian_sides/. Maproom (talk) 15:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Bast Fiber

Okra is included on the list of plants from which bast fibers are obtained, but this is not included in the "uses" section of the Okra article. Does anyone have any information on the use of okra plants for fibers? I'll see if I can find something on it, but I was hoping someone might have the relevant article on hand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.92.137.72 (talk) 14:27, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Vegetable Sponge

Okra pods allowed to ripen get quite large, two feet long or more. They are tough and woody when allowed to grow this large and inedible but put out in the sun and allowed to "rot" produce a vegetable sponge similar to a loofah. I can't find a reference to link to about this but it is folk knowledge in Arkansas and I have seen it actually done. Without a reference though, it really can't be added to the article. Anyone else seen this in print or on the web anywhere? Halfelven (talk) 05:11, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Home cultivation?

Are there any particular climates where this plant can be grown?

Which climates are most suitable for adding to a home garden?

Does it require hot weather?

What problems are gardeners likely to face if they planted this in their garden?

Are there any plants that don't mix with Okra?

A color map of which areas in the United States are most suitable for growing Okra.

The main article would be improved if a section addressed the matter of home gardening.