Talk:Gezi Park protests

NPOV issues: PLEASE PAY ATTENTION!

If I remembered how to put an NPOV tag on this article I would. In the meantime, it's obviously written to inflame readers' emotions and help the protesters. The intro states "attacked by police" and cites Al Jazeera. How about language like "broken up by... ...with X number of injured, a situation described by witnesses and police sources as..." If you really want Wikipedia and this page to be taken seriously, then stick to NPOV language. I'm sure many Turkish citizens' grievances are legitimate, but this page is not the vehicle for revolution, it's just a neutral document for what's going on. Feel free to link to websites that carry your message more freely.Pär Larsson (talk) 12:54, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm also removing "fair-minded Turks" in the infobox. Sounds too biased. Gnaaye (talk) 13:29, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I added CHP, ÖDP and TKP as sides to the conflict, and added sources to back my claim up. fyi Gnaaye (talk) 13:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Currently the English section of the protests are collaboratively being developed by those whose native languages are Turkish and speaks English and by those whose native languages are English. So even in this passage you can see many inadequate word selection -- particularly verbs -- and low-level relative clause efforts. Many Turkish people, who speak English in a variety of levels, usually take the very first verb they see from dictionaries. They immediately want to translate the sentence in their minds to English and do not pay attention on proper sentence structures while they are editing on wikipedia (and not only for wiki). It is true that there is a huge effect of emotions and yes it must not be in that way. For now one of the suggestions is: Native English speakers may intend to review the entire text and re-edit in more adequate way. Not to be misunderstood, this is not a duty for only native English speakers. Collaborating is the core in wikipedia world. --Toksoz (talk) 14:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

This article in its current form has no use and it is indicative of the inclusionist dominated Wikipedia we have today. There's an element on English Wiki that wants the credit and kudos for getting in on the action first and being about to write 'history in the making'. It should be written about after the protests have died down from a neutral observer. not written about in an attempt to control the flow and direction of these protests, and attempt to write history from a particular non-neutral perspective.

There's also the problem of all 'sources' being pro-Protest, and absolutely none being anti-Protest, which is why is shouldn't be written up now. Those opposing the protest are not writing articles and blogs about it in English.Oxr033 (talk) 15:36, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

All the citations I, and many other contributors, to this article have added are from major news providers that have reporters on the ground, not from blogs, and consist of Turkish- and English-language sources. It is important to document the unfolding of these news stories.eliotbates (talk) 17:06, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

NEUTRAL LANGUAGE REQUIRED URGENTLY! For example under the title of "2 June"; "...the extent of police brutality started to...", "...cleaning stopped compulsory...", "...violence on almost every single person, even on people who just walked with flags including women..." and many more. --Toksoz (talk) 20:14, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes I changed it a bit. We need a good source from Izmir right now.NeoRetro (talk) 20:58, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Issues with Title

Gezi Park is too specific

Protests have been held not only in Istanbul's Gezi Park, but also in Ankara and in several Turkish communities in Europe [1]. --Երևանցի ^talk 00:47, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

The protests have obviously spread to other locations in Turkey such Izmir and Ankara[2]. The current article title is misleading. Mohamed CJ (talk) 08:04, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Is there a proposed alternative name? The turkish wikipedia article has the same name:http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Taksim_Gezi_Park%C4%B1_protestolar%C4%B1 Rajah (talk) 10:01, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

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"2013 Taksim Gezi Park protests" title seems proper. Yes, it is true that the protests have spread to many cities in Turkey but currently the sparking point is still on the 'Taksim Gezi Park'. The other cities have begun to protest to support the main protesters in Istanbul from their own locations not necessarily to move and participate directly in Istanbul.

News are pouring gradually. And wikipedia users must follow the current events protecting their own objectivity and wiki's policies.

However if this event expands to many more locations and evolves from the environmental perspectives to another ones (i.e. political, ideological, anti-government motives), then the title can be changed.

One simple example: Think that World War 1 started today. We cannot know and make any assumption that after "the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria on 1 June 2013" World War 1 started because simply, we cannot know what happens afterwards. Gradually we will learn the events and finally we will change the title as 'World War 1'.

Regards, --Toksoz (talk) 10:45, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

2013 Taksim Gezi Park protests → Taksim Gezi Park protests – No need for year; nothing to disambiguate from. Mohamed CJ(talk) 04:43, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose - As stated above, this is not just about the park anymore, but about much broader issues, and is now nation-wide. FunkMonk (talk) 19:42, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose – Ditto. – Herzen (talk) 20:09, 2 June 2013 (UTC)5+
• Oppose - Ditto. I'm sure this will eventually need a new name, but the current one is the best for now.Capscap (talk) 21:51, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• No sources seem to refer to these protests as anything similar to "2013 Taksim Gezi Park protests". They simply call them Turkish protests, which makes sense, since this is about much broader issues than just a park. A name such as 2013 Turkish protests" or some such would make more sense. FunkMonk (talk) 16:33, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Multiple issues

The article has multiple issues, the worst of which being lack of citations for vital claims, and an obvious pro-protest POV. It has to be well-supported with citations, written from a neutral point of view, and not make arguments, such as the background section beginning with the claim of Turkey's lack of freedoms, which makes sense only if one assumes the article's writers want the reader to agree with their political conclusions. The best place to start is with citing the material that needs supporting. Then the article can be checked for neutral language. Writing an article poorly helps no one's cause. μηδείς (talk) 02:25, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

• You can use these file which is taken by me.

File:Erdal Beşikçioğlu in Kuğulu Park (May 31, 2013).jpg

File:Tunalı Hilmi Street (May 31, 2013).jpg

File:Tunalı Hilmi Street (31 May 2013).jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Istiklal_caddesi_gezi_parki_protestosu.JPG Haruneskar (talk) 00:46, 5 June 2013 (UTC) Thank you.--Reality 05:21, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

The article is much improved now. Please help the protesters by nominating the article for ITN section on the main page. Candymoan (talk) 07:30, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Some information needs to be moved from the lead to the timeline. The background section needs to be for issues explicitly linked by reliable sources to the protests, it can't simply be a spiel about bad things in Turkey. Generally speaking, the purpose of this article is for informing people about the event, but not promoting it. As such, information in the article, particularly the timeline section, needs to explictly focus on citable facts, and avoid POV adjectives and commentary. LukeSurl ^{t c} 09:22, 1 June 2013 (UTC-)

While it possible that Turkey is using agent orange in the demonstrations, and other editors have been putting up links to "media reports," none of the media sources has yet confirmed this (CNN was emphatic about this), and it more probable that what was observed was expired tear gas. Agent orange is a defoliation agent, not a crowd-control tool.eliotbates (talk) 00:32, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

"Sources" will all naturally be pro-protest, because those anti-protest will stay silentOxr033 (talk) 15:30, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Main Page - ITN

Petitioning for inclusion of the article for In The News section of the Main Page. Please support. Candymoan (talk) 10:17, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Link to the petition: Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#Turkish_protests --Rajah (talk) 10:20, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

While this is likely to be posted soon, it's important to note that ITN/C is not a petition. Mohamed CJ (talk) 14:51, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

See also section

This section includes an article of Istanbul bombing. What is the link between these two events? Egeymi (talk) 15:47, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

2010 Taksim blast link was placed on the section to tell the important events occurred in Taksim and its round. There is not any parallel between the two but to inform people about the significance of Taksim (and particularly 'the Taksim square') in the eurasian history; not only in the Turkish, Ottoman, Seljuq, Byzantine, etc. history. --Toksoz (talk) 17:08, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for explanation. Egeymi (talk) 19:37, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

This is no ordinary protest, this is an uprising!

You got that right. Not only in Istanbul, but almost in every single city and municipality in Turkey, people are fighting, uprising for their humanitarian rights against this fundementalist-fascist dictatoriat! Please, change the title as an uprising! Love from turkey, solidarity! We're winning! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.107.217.208 (talk) 22:16, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

There are barely any reliable secondary sources that use the phrase "uprising". "Protests", at this time, would be the most appropriate term. -- LuK3 (Talk) 22:21, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

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Due to the high tension of the events, currently it is quite normal to understand why those who say 'We are winning!'

Wikipedia is not the place where leans towards the winning side, the losing side, the moderate side or the chameleon side. Wikipedia users must pay attention on their own neutrality and wiki's policies all the time. These two motives are prime and the driving force behind the entire society to make them [ourselves] completely free and unspoilt. --Toksoz (talk) 22:37, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a how-to. μηδείς (talk) 23:08, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree, this is certainly civil war that we are seeing and not protests.--Collingwood26 (talk) 11:12, 3 June 2013 (UTC) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-03/australian-man-describes-taksim-as-war-zone/4728664 Stick with protest for now Alhanuty (talk) 04:13, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Not Agent Orange

the agent orange thing is a rumor, and it's sourced here to CNN, when in fact it was on CNN "ireport," which is unverified first-hand reporting, and the page has now been taken down.

As the Wikipedia page to which this links makes clear, Agent Orange is a defoliant (used to kill plants, not control people) and not orange in color, is not a gas, has no use in crowd control, and does not produce the symptoms experienced by the protestors, who have been hit with a variety of forms of tear gas. Since Agent Orange has a particular and ugly history, and there are actually no verified sources of its use here (verification would actually require sophisticated chemical testing--the rumor appears to be based on some tweets and blog postings and the orange color of one of the tear gas varieties used by Turkish police), I'd prefer this claim be removed. Wichitalineman (talk) 02:06, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed-- I've rewritten to clarify that turkish riot control chemical nicknamed "Agent Orange" is not the US military's defoliant. --HectorMoffet (talk) 05:51, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

That CNN page has been taken down because it was "found to be in violation of the iReport Community Guidelines and Terms of Use", fyi. Gnaaye (talk) 10:14, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Also can someone take down that caption under the picture that says blood in the streets? That was red dye from water cannons that police use to "mark" protestors for later arrests. 66.65.62.138 (talk) 03:44, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Issues regarding injuries and casualties

Turkish Doctors' Association? Source of "6 lost eyes" quote?

Where is the Turkish Doctors' Association website please? I cannot find anything on www.ttb.org.tr re the 6 lost eyes quote from the Guardian. There is no name in the Guardian for who gave the figure. If you cannot edit this talk page feel free to tell me on my own talk page. I will also try and find out whether this is true via my own links with Turkish doctors but I doubt my sources will be good enough. Thanks. Jzlcdh (talk) 13:31, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Ah quote is from Reuters. But they have not named the spokesperson. Any have any more info on this? Jzlcdh (talk) 13:55, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Cannot find info on this point on Turkish Wikipedia. Jzlcdh (talk) 15:00, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

As far as I can see it is not on http://www.ttb.org.tr/index.php/tumhaberler/ - so I am removing it. Jzlcdh (talk) 17:49, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Who reported that there were deaths?

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=20804 says "According to reports, more than a thousand protesters have been injured and at least two have died." But in what source were deaths actually reported? Unless the source can be found and it is reliable I suggest this info should be removed as unreliable. Jzlcdh (talk) 16:04, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Removed - please give the names of 2 dead in reliable source before re-adding. Jzlcdh (talk) 18:04, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Deaths

I reverted removal of death information as it is sourced. The claim that the deaths are not named makes no sense. Follow reliable sources. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk)18:17, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. Very strange question... NeoRetro (talk) 18:20, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello Sun Creator. Of course Amnesty International is a reliable source and I have great respect for them. However they themselves are merely quoting other report(s) and as far as I can tell they have not told us who or what those sources are. Therefore we cannot judge their reliability. They have not in fact said whether they consider the report(s) to be correct or not. Given the need to try to avoid inflaming the situation and provoking any more violence against people on either side I believe Wikipedia ought to be reasonably sure of itself before reporting the deaths of two people. Therefore I believe this statement should be removed for now and when and if more information becomes available it could be re-added. I hope you will agree that this is not a trivial matter (as many of my other Wikipedia edits are!) and should be carefully considered. Would anyone else like to comment on this? Jzlcdh (talk) 18:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I see 3 deaths are now stated in the infobox and a picture has been added (partial so it is not obvious whether the person is wounded or dead). If next of kin have been informed could the name of the person in the picture be given and the place and time? Jzlcdh (talk) 18:49, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Now in the infobox the same picture is being claimed as a death in Istanbul and Ankara! Jzlcdh (talk) 19:11, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Unless reliable sources dispute Amnesty's claims, we have no reason to remove it. FunkMonk (talk) 19:41, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Turkish newspapers like Posta and Yeni Asır confirmed that the dead of Moroccan-Turkish girl and also the protester that got hit by a civil police car is confirmed dead. You can check the paper sites from internet. Of course, there won't be any official speech from government saying "Yes we killed them". Photos are the true proofs. And all the police violence is true, telling this as a man just hit home in Izmir. Thanks. Berkaysnklf (talk) 2 June, 2013, 22:17 (UTC)

I cannot find confirmation of the claimed killing of Lavna Allani on Posta and Yeni Asır websites. But my Turkish is not very good. Perhaps someone with better Turkish can put the link on this talk page. Are they reliable sources? Until the death(s) are confirmed by a reliable source (such as mainstream foreign media or a foreign embassy as she is mentioned as a foreigner) I am removing the deaths info in the infobox as unreliable. Jzlcdh (talk) 06:08, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I searched the sites; the only story on Posta (which is confirmed on stories on Radikal) is that she is in critical condition. There is no mention of her on Yeni Asır. An unconfirmed post on Ekşi Sözlük on 2 June mentioned that she's undergoing a 2nd operation.eliotbates (talk) 15:26, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Amnesty is reliable, so you cannot do that. FunkMonk (talk) 11:15, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I see one death has now been confirmed. But I do not think we should be showing unconfirmed deaths in the infobox without good sources. I am replacing the Turkish language source for the confirmed death with an English language one and removing the unconfirmed figure. I agree Amnesty is reliable and I am not removing their quote in the body of the article. However they are quoting an unknown source which may not be reliable. Jzlcdh (talk) 18:31, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

There is an infographic which states at the bottom: "Death count: Officially, 12 (unofficial more than 30). The graphic includes two photos which could depict dead persons:

http://postimg.org/image/7s9j8s16z/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.135.8.230 (talk) 22:24, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

International reactions

In addition to the "Official" and "Unofficial" sections, I think there should be an additional section, possibly called "Worldwide protests" in order to not fill up the "Unofficial" section. The bulletpoints on protests themselves have outnumbered the bullets on other reactions. Ajitirj (talk) 17:30, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed--Abbatai 20:41, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. It was available on the Taksim Gezi Park protests before its moved. Its deleted somehow. --Movietech 21:12, 2 June 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Movietech (talk • contribs)

Primary sources as references (youtube, tumblr, imgur, etc.)

Hi folks, great job at this article so far. Please be mindful not to link to self-published primary source youtube videos which may not meet our reliable sources guideline or copyright policy. Youtube videos from random uploaders (non-official channels without a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy) are not reliable sources for an encyclopedia article. Further, it's essential that we do not have any doubts that the video uploader is the copyright holder of the video. We cannot link to copyright-infringing reposts on youtube or other sites.

For example, a random, non-official Twitter post should not be linked as evidence unless a reliable secondary sources points to it.

A youtube video uploaded by a protester should not be linked as a reliable source unless that video is linked in an article by a reliable secondary source.

Images from the ground in Turkey cannot be used as reliable sources unless they are accompanied by an authoritative statement by a reliable secondary source such as a newspaper or journalist or expert website. Images can be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, however, if they meet copyright guidelines--yet they can only be used to illustrate the article not to verify claims.

For more information, please use.

• Self-published sources
• Youtube

Keep up the great work. Ocaasi ^{t | c} 20:35, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Since there is a shocking blackout on the Turkish press, youtube and tumblr and imgur etc. are the sole source of news nowadays here unfortunately. Not that I claim that it meets the reliable sources policy or anything though. Azirlazarus (talk) 21:02, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying the issue... The current problem is not being able to find any secondary sources for the events taking place. The videos I'd included had very clear implications - a group of 12 policemen beating a lone woman on the streets does not need verification. This uprising is very real, the police brutality is one of the triggers and mainstream media is blacking out on us.

I understand the underlying concern, but at the same time the self-published sources are the only source in midst of this mess. Candymoan (talk) 21:06, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

WP:RS is a guideline in service of our core policy WP:Verifiability. It's possible to generate a consensus for including as facts things depicted a self-published source, but it would have to be a very exceptional set of circumstances to generate that kind of consensus. So, there might be exceptions, but I haven't seen need of one yet in my WP career. --HectorMoffet (talk) 07:19, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Not Agreeing With Arab Spring

"Part of Impact of the Arab Spring"? Is it? --Akinranbu (talk) 17:10, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

• I see no connection between this even ad the so-called Arab Spring. --Երևանցի ^talk 00:47, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

• Absolutely not! The Prime Minister is elected, so no relation to the Arab Spring!--Movietech 21:08, 2 June 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added byMovietech (talk • contribs)

• I'm still not agreeing with seeing this democracy act that got started to protect nature and which's goal is "protect nature and seed democracy" as a part of Arab Spring. And I'm sure people here, won't agree with it too. Berkaysnklf (talk) 2 June, 2013, 22:21 (UTC)

• Being a part of Arab Spring is one thing and being a part of IMPACT of the Arab Spring is another. This movement is clearly influenced by the idea of successful removal of dictators in Arab World and occupy movement which was also influenced by Arab Spring. I think that the tag of Impact of the Arab Spring should be kept. Azirlazarus (talk) 21:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• That's ridiculous. There are no sources to support this, and I can find you plenty that would support the opposite. Is every revolt part of the Arab spring now?NeoRetro (talk) 21:39, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• For now, it seems appropriate. User:Azirlazarus has mentioned above. Again, please look at carefully that it is written as "Impact of the Arab Spring". The protests in Turkey does not have strong motives from the Arab Spring but "impact" word is fine. Moreover, please also check "Occupy Movement". The events are happening in the U.S., in many European countries and etc. And it is very clear that the O.M. protesters inherited mostly "the methods", "the solidarity spirit" and suchlike from the Arab Spring; not imitating the involved countries' [of the Arab Spring] cultures, ways of life and forms of government. --Toksoz (talk) 21:48, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Well I think the Iranian uprising of 09 is a more suitable comparison. For all it's worth, Iran is a democracy and some of the issues and tactics are the same. NeoRetro (talk) 21:52, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Toksoz is right. No need to be an Arabphobic though. #occupygezi is influenced by the occupy movement and occupy movement is influenced by the Arab Soring. Simple as that. Azirlazarus (talk) 21:56, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• I agree that the Impact of Arab Spring tag is appropriate. For sources, see some of the 121,000 google results for "turkish spring" that make this connection. [[3]] Capscap (talk) 21:59, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Turkey is not an Arab state, so even if it was influenced by events there, the term cannot apply. FunkMonk (talk) 22:10, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• When we delve into the issue, it is quite possible that we can reach till the legacy of Spartacus. It is not that big issue accepting the "impact" of the Arab Spring. We are not going to be Arab, when we keep the title under the "impact" word. Please check again: There is a "sequence" function in history; not necessarily imitating to one another. "Spartacus' fight", "The American Revolution", "The French Revolution", "The Soviet Revolution", "Founding the Republic of Turkey from the residuals of the Ottoman Empire", "Under Gandhi's leaderhip; The Salt March", "The Nazis", "The Chinese Revolution", "The Cuban Revolution", "Martin Luther King, Jr.'s speech in 1963", "The Vietnamese Revolution, "The Iranian Revolution", "The Dissolution of the Soviet Union", "1999 Seattle WTO protests", "The Orange Revolution", "The Arab Spring", "The Occupy Movement" and "The Taksim Gezi Park protests" have common "the spirit of solidarity". As it is seen; the cultures, the languages, the forms of government are far different but there is a "sequence" over "solidarity". --Toksoz (talk) 22:19, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, "impacted by" makes sense, "part of" does not. FunkMonk (talk) 22:21, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• The protests are not the part of the Arab Spring; the protests are influenced by the Arab Spring's methods and solidarity. Therefore, it was written as "The protests are the impact of the Arab Spring". --Toksoz (talk) 22:26, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• The so-called Arab Spring started in Tunisia against an obvious dictator. As long as I know, the AKP was voted majority into the Meclis by the Turks and I don't recall much criticism about the elections. Not every protest since 2011 should be considered as part of the impact of the Arab Spring. I would like to hear your comments on how this protests are related to the Arab Spring, other than being a series of mass demonstrations against the government. --Երևանցի ^talk 22:53, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• The explanation is mentioned above. There is not a direct correlation between the Taksim Gezi Park protests and the Arab Spring. The one and only connection is about the two: The methods and solidarity. --Toksoz (talk) 23:16, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Actually, this started as an environmentalist act and still continues like that on first place. Every morning people, got out with thrash bins and clean the streets that got polluted on battles. And thousands check this page every day. The claiming Arab Spring or Impact of Arab Spring can make people get this movement wrong. We don't have to write there anything. At least now. So can it just be removed ? I'm telling this as a protester who's out every day until night. We don't have to write there anything, at least for now. Berkaysnklf (talk) 3 June, 2013, 00:29 (UTC)

• The connection/impact of these protests with Arab spring is pure conjuncture and original research at its finest. Even claiming these protests are a continuation of the Republic protests of 2007 would be original research but that has a higher likely-hood. Said 2007 pro-secular protests predate the arab spring. -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 00:02, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

• In some of the foreign protests (Oxford, London) diasporic Turks have been waving signs that say "Turkish Spring" and the like, but I haven't seen anything of this from inside Turkey. eliotbates (talk) 00:16, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

• Sure, "Anadolu Spring" is a term I have also seen but not through reliable sources. Personally I like "Anatolian Summer" more. :p -- A Certain White Cat ^chi? 00:18, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

• In addition to my post above, I found this news: [4] A small protest in northern Tehran with people demanding release of Mousavi and 'down with the dictator'. Turkish-Iranian culture is very connected, this protest isn't part of the Arab spring. It's about liberalising the Perso-Turkish culture. Mousavi is an ethnic Azeri, and he's not even running in the election. Those protesters have definitely made the candidacy of their leader impossible. Still they felt this was the right time, with the upcoming elections and all.NeoRetro (talk) 01:14, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

• ONE MORE TIME: It is true that there is NOT direct connection between the Taksim Gezi Park protests and the Arab Spring. As explained above, there is a "sequence" function in history. That's why; the one and only connection between the two events may be: The methods and the spirit of solidarity. --Toksoz (talk) 08:40, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

• LOL. I don't know if you know this... but the Arab "spring" was probably also influenced by the Iranian revolt. I don't think there are many Turks that want some sort of Arab revolution... And if you are talking about a sequence, the Iranian uprising was obviously before the Arab spring. NeoRetro (talk) 09:22, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, I am aware. Please read the passage above starting as "When we delve into the issue,...". There is not only "The Iranian Revolution" but also "The Soviet Revolution" and many more. And the "sequence" function in history works in the Taksim Gezi Park protests, too.

Lastly, 1. The Republic of Turkey is NOT an Arab country and never will be. The "sequence" points in this event are "the methods" and "the spirit of solidarity" motives between the two.

2. The U.S., the European continent, etc.; the majority of protests [The Occupy movement, the protests against austerity measures and suchlike] in this geographies inherited firstly "the methods" and "the spirit of solidarity" from the Arab Spring. But please pay attention: Neither the U.S. nor the European continent said [and will never say] that they aimed an Arab revolution or a Christian revolution or a Communist revolution in their cultures and governments. Being a part of the Arab Spring and being influenced by the Arab Spring are far different points.

3. Anonymous identifies itself as an international online activist group. This organization supported the Arab Spring in the past and now supporting the Taksim Gezi Park protests. Anonymous is also aware that there is NOT direct relations between the two events but the similar motives and these are [again] "the methods" and "the spirit of solidarity". --Toksoz (talk) 12:46, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Sides in casualty

Why is the casualty listed in the protester side of the infobox, as if the casualty did not belong to Turkey? The divisions in the conflict are currently not clear and I think it would be a good idea to list the casualties without dividing them by side.VR _talk 20:42, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

New York Times ad

Headsup: all 3 drafts of a planned full-page letter in the New York Times include a link to this Wikipedia article: [5]. An incentive to make the page better, perhaps! Podiaebba (talk) 01:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

This is a joke, right? Atatürk? Another authoritarion leader, but just with a bit sauce of westernization, is being used to define us?

I'm so pissed off! I am a Gezi protestor and a leading figure on the ground since the beginning. I've been hit by gas cannisters and got wounded several times. I've done all I could on twitter (organizing people and everything) and made massive contributions to this page, just for standing against an authoritarian leader and for simply freedom! And now I see what? A bunch of elitist, coup d'etat sympathizers (who shout "We are the soldiers of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk," which is a really disturbing slogan to hear for many Gezi Protestors), those who are Republic Protests participators advertising our resistance in a tone of Kemalism on western media!

I feel like all I and my friends have been defending for days with our sweat and blood was for nothing. Shame on those who bismerch us! Azirlazarus (talk) 19:45, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Atatürk is the symbol of secularist Turkey; mentioning him doesn't necessarily mean some extremist Kemalism. There are plenty of different voices there, and trying to represent them all in a single message is always going to be hard. But anyway, this isn't an issue for Wikipedia; if you want to promote an alternative message, you'll have to find other ways to do it. Good luck! Podiaebba (talk) 19:54, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

We (me and my protestor acquaintances) just wish that it wasn't a Kemalist propaganda paper, It doesn't represent the liberal identity of the movement. Most of those who see the wikipedia link of this page on the ad will also see our reservation here. I ask them to ignore that ad, thank you. Azirlazarus (talk) 20:16, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Needs

This article needs better organization. Ffor example the reactons part should go together (with interntional) not a subsection of th e date and it needs consolidating of the 1 sentence paragraphs. Pre precedent, media reactions are secondary to political ones.

Also need to add erdogan terming the protest as extremist and backed by foreigners (possibly with the investigation he suggested). And update today for the 200k+ civil servants striking.(Lihaas (talk) 07:38, 4 June 2013 (UTC)).

Naming sections

Right now we have:

• 2.1 28 May
• 2.2 29 May
• 2.3 30 May
• 2.4 31 May
• 2.5 1 June
• 2.6 2 June
• 2.7 3 June

This seems hard to read. How about putting the month first to separate the numbers? (Heroeswithmetaphors) talk 15:43, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

It appears like this because you are logged in, and have the "auto number headings" preference set. Logged out users won't see the section numbering. Per WP:MOS all dates in an article should have the same format, so the section headings should (usually) not be put as month day, without changing the rest of the article. It would probably be better to get rid of the date section headings completely, and use prose for the dates.Martin451 (talk) 20:29, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree. I think we should eliminate the section headings, use prose, and focus on the notable events rather than a minute-by-minute play-by-play. I previously proposed moving the timeline to a separate article, but that was shot down. Capscap (talk) 00:53, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

New picture at top of article

I'm not sure exactly how NPOV rules apply to pictures, but the new picture at the top seems pretty POV to me. It would be one thing if it were just an actual photo of the protests like the old one.. but having a propaganda poster at the top of the article just feels inappropriate to me. Capscap (talk) 23:45, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. There are probably copyright issues with such internet-sourced composites too. Podiaebba (talk) 23:53, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if the sports clubs poster is non-NPOV, but I agree the gas-masked whirling sufi is a better image for the top-- a whirling sufi is distinctly Turkish and the gas-mask references the tear gas used on protestors. I'll restore that image to top. Someone else already beat me to it. --HectorMoffet (talk) 23:53, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Looks like Martin451 beat us to the punch [6]- Thanks, Martin! Capscap (talk) 23:56, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree the sports picture had POV issues for the first picture, and put the sufi one back in.Martin451 (talk) 23:57, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Final sentence of the lead...

... ends with: "that the government will ensure full participation of locals to local constructions and developments forth." I can't fix this as I can't even tell what is meant by this sentence. That local people will participate in local construction projects from now on? In the sense that they will be construction workers, or that the community will be involved in construction decisions? Please clarify. siafu (talk) 00:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

The sentence does not seem to be directly backed up by the cite, but I am guessing that he means local people will be consulted on future developments. Not (as I read the sentence) locals will be forced to help construction, or locals will be given priority in jobs.Martin451 (talk) 00:20, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I've removed that unclear and unsupported part of the sentence. If anyone has a link for future construction-related development, feel free to add it along with a citation. Cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 02:08, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Supporting Political Organisations

While it was a "civil" protest at the beginning, later on, some organisations took control of the protests. Tha major and most influential ones were:

• Republican People's Party
• Workers' Party
• Turkey Youth Union
• Communist Party of Turkey

I think this fact should be noted.--144.122.104.211 (talk) 02:29, 5 June 2013 (UTC)