Talk:Nick Kyrgios

Ethnicity and nationality of his parents

There have been a lot of edit changed to the description of Kyrgios' mother, specifically about whether to call her "Malaysian" or "half-Malasyan". For his father, both "Greek" and "Greek-Australian" have been used. So it might be worth a discussion to sort it out a bit.

First, there is a difference between describing the ethnicity of his parents and their nationality. They are both Australian citizens who were born in other countries before coming to Australia. So their original nationalities are Malaysian and Greek, but their current nationality is just Australian.

Second, if the intention is to describe his mother's ethnicity, not her nationality, then "Malaysian" won't do the job. Malaysia is a country composed of a variety of different ethnic groups, none of which are called "Malaysian". So to refer to his mother's ethnicity a source would be needed that specifies which Malaysian ethnic group she belongs to. I have not seen any source that does that, so unless someone can find one that specifies, we cannot include any claim about her ethnicity at all.

Third, with regard to his father's ethnicity, "Greek" both describes a nationality and an ethnicity. One might think that "Greek-Australian" also describes an ethnicity, but that seems more a description of a person born and raised in Australia to ethnically Greek parents, not a Greek person who then moves to Australia.

In the absence of better sourcing for any other claims people might want to include, it does seem clear from sources that Kyrgios' father was born in Greece and his mother was born in Malaysia (Kuala Lumpur, to be more specific). So I would suggest that the description of them in the article should say "Greek born" and "Malaysian born". These are indisputable facts that indicate their national origin and tell us about as much as we can verify about their ethnicity. 99.192.83.52 (talk) 12:13, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

i completely disagree. about his greek ethnic component there should be zero objection. this is a fact that he has greek ethnicity. his father is ethnic greek and he seems proud of a greek ethnic identity - not that his father was only born in greece.
the reference for his mum in the article says that his own manager calls her half-malaysian. if the manager says this then this should be enough for us because who would know the family more intimately? maybe she has another country of origin that no one has bothered to mention. i would speculate she has some indian in her just based upon her darker complexion which is atypical for say a malay. but this is beyond what we currently know so we shouldn't speculate. also you say that malaysian isn't an ethnicity, well that's irrelevant. How many times do you hear someone described as half australian & half indian? is australian an ethnicity? is indian an ethnicity? is american an ethnicity? is african-american an ethnicity? the list goes on & on. yet these are still acceptably used & that should be no different for half malaysian.
in conclusion, we should stick with the most up to date info we have that is backed by reference ie. greek & half-malaysian.58.111.196.44 (talk) 14:34, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

First, to call his father "Greek born" is not something I would expect people to take as a denial of his ethnicity, but as a confirmation of it. Secondly, Kyrgios's manager did call Kyrgios's mother "half-Malaysian", but that description cannot possibly be true. You cannot be "half" anything by nationality. So the only way what he said could begin to make sense is if he was intending to say something about her ethnicity, but Malaysian is not an ethnicity. So clearly he does not know what he is talking about because he said something that cannot possibly be true of any person. 99.192.79.113 (talk) 14:50, 5 July 2014 (UTC) (=99.192.83.52)

OK, so we are clear about a greek father then? Good.
About his mum i think you are just a little ignorant of modern malaysian identity issues. when someone says malaysian to describe someone in modern malaysia then it is always referring to ethnic malays. the reason is because any other malaysian is always referred to as chinese-malaysian, indian-malaysian etc. modern malaysia promotes the view that only the indigenous malays or those of muslim identity are truly malaysian. the rest are seen as historical imports and so are not seen as true malaysian, hence the prefix. back to nick's mum: her name, her look, and the name of her daughter and nick's middle name clearly indicate a malay identity. i would prefer to add this, however, no reference says this so i will only add the best reference on the issue ie. half-malaysian. as i said earlier. i also strongly believe she has an indian component in her because her look just isn't pure malay. i would speculate she has tamil in her, just because there are many tamils in malaysia and nick's wiki article has a tamil version as well. so perhaps someone knows something we don't! but i wouldn't bother with speculation.58.111.196.44 (talk) 00:13, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

when someone says malaysian to describe someone in modern malaysia then it is always referring to ethnic malays. Not true. When someone is talking about the country of Malaysia and identifying someone as a citizen off that country the word "Malaysian" is used. That is what the word means. Malaysian exports are products exported from the country of Malaysia, not just products made by Malays. People are Malaysian if they are citizens of Malaysia, even if they are not Malay.

back to nick's mum: her name, her look, and the name of her daughter and nick's middle name clearly indicate a malay identity. That's all original research. Find any reliable source that says she is Malay and that can be included. Without such a source, we can include no statement of any kind about her ethnicity.

the best reference on the issue ie. half-malaysian. You put a lot of stock in what a manager who might have no expertise on ethnicities said one time in an off-the-cuff comment to a reporter. There are many many sources that say she is Malaysian and only one that says half-Malaysian. That plus the fact that being half-Malaysian is impossible is reason enough not to include it. Just because some people are sloppy in their language does not mean Wikipedia should be as well. 99.192.65.39 (talk) 00:35, 6 July 2014 (UTC) (=99.192.83.52)

well you have just reinforced your ignorance. i completely agree that malaysian exports don't imply they are made only by malays. but please do not compare oranges and apples. we are talking about malaysian as an ethnic/national identity. we are not talking about products. find me one chinese malaysian who is only ever referred to as malaysian? Can you do the same for an indian-malaysian? when used singularly, malaysian equates to malay, as i already explained in some detail.
my speculation about her looks etc weren't meant to be anything more than an illustration of my point. please don't focus on an issue i myself have given no weight.
sloppy language?! how is that sloppy?! rather that shows the greater knowledge of his manager simply because half is adding greater detail than just malaysian. his manager makes it clear in the reference that nick is of greek and half-malaysian identity. that is as specific as we currently have. unless you have something that says his manager is wrong or uneducated or you know nick more intimately then i don't see why it should be removed. your opinion that half-malaysian is impossible is just wrong: just as someone can be half-american and half-italian etc., so can someone be half-malaysian and half something else.58.111.196.44 (talk) 01:51, 6 July 2014 (UTC)