Talk:Nick Kyrgios

Ethnicity and nationality of his parents

There have been a lot of edit changed to the description of Kyrgios' mother, specifically about whether to call her "Malaysian" or "half-Malasyan". For his father, both "Greek" and "Greek-Australian" have been used. So it might be worth a discussion to sort it out a bit.

First, there is a difference between describing the ethnicity of his parents and their nationality. They are both Australian citizens who were born in other countries before coming to Australia. So their original nationalities are Malaysian and Greek, but their current nationality is just Australian.

Second, if the intention is to describe his mother's ethnicity, not her nationality, then "Malaysian" won't do the job. Malaysia is a country composed of a variety of different ethnic groups, none of which are called "Malaysian". So to refer to his mother's ethnicity a source would be needed that specifies which Malaysian ethnic group she belongs to. I have not seen any source that does that, so unless someone can find one that specifies, we cannot include any claim about her ethnicity at all.

Third, with regard to his father's ethnicity, "Greek" both describes a nationality and an ethnicity. One might think that "Greek-Australian" also describes an ethnicity, but that seems more a description of a person born and raised in Australia to ethnically Greek parents, not a Greek person who then moves to Australia.

In the absence of better sourcing for any other claims people might want to include, it does seem clear from sources that Kyrgios' father was born in Greece and his mother was born in Malaysia (Kuala Lumpur, to be more specific). So I would suggest that the description of them in the article should say "Greek born" and "Malaysian born". These are indisputable facts that indicate their national origin and tell us about as much as we can verify about their ethnicity. 99.192.83.52 (talk) 12:13, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

i completely disagree. about his greek ethnic component there should be zero objection. this is a fact that he has greek ethnicity. his father is ethnic greek and he seems proud of a greek ethnic identity - not that his father was only born in greece.
the reference for his mum in the article says that his own manager calls her half-malaysian. if the manager says this then this should be enough for us because who would know the family more intimately? maybe she has another country of origin that no one has bothered to mention. i would speculate she has some indian in her just based upon her darker complexion which is atypical for say a malay. but this is beyond what we currently know so we shouldn't speculate. also you say that malaysian isn't an ethnicity, well that's irrelevant. How many times do you hear someone described as half australian & half indian? is australian an ethnicity? is indian an ethnicity? is american an ethnicity? is african-american an ethnicity? the list goes on & on. yet these are still acceptably used & that should be no different for half malaysian.
in conclusion, we should stick with the most up to date info we have that is backed by reference ie. greek & half-malaysian.58.111.196.44 (talk) 14:34, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

First, to call his father "Greek born" is not something I would expect people to take as a denial of his ethnicity, but as a confirmation of it. Secondly, Kyrgios's manager did call Kyrgios's mother "half-Malaysian", but that description cannot possibly be true. You cannot be "half" anything by nationality. So the only way what he said could begin to make sense is if he was intending to say something about her ethnicity, but Malaysian is not an ethnicity. So clearly he does not know what he is talking about because he said something that cannot possibly be true of any person. 99.192.79.113 (talk) 14:50, 5 July 2014 (UTC) (=99.192.83.52)

OK, so we are clear about a greek father then? Good.
About his mum i think you are just a little ignorant of modern malaysian identity issues. when someone says malaysian to describe someone in modern malaysia then it is always referring to ethnic malays. the reason is because any other malaysian is always referred to as chinese-malaysian, indian-malaysian etc. modern malaysia promotes the view that only the indigenous malays or those of muslim identity are truly malaysian. the rest are seen as historical imports and so are not seen as true malaysian, hence the prefix. back to nick's mum: her name, her look, and the name of her daughter and nick's middle name clearly indicate a malay identity. i would prefer to add this, however, no reference says this so i will only add the best reference on the issue ie. half-malaysian. as i said earlier. i also strongly believe she has an indian component in her because her look just isn't pure malay. i would speculate she has tamil in her, just because there are many tamils in malaysia and nick's wiki article has a tamil version as well. so perhaps someone knows something we don't! but i wouldn't bother with speculation.58.111.196.44 (talk) 00:13, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

when someone says malaysian to describe someone in modern malaysia then it is always referring to ethnic malays. Not true. When someone is talking about the country of Malaysia and identifying someone as a citizen off that country the word "Malaysian" is used. That is what the word means. Malaysian exports are products exported from the country of Malaysia, not just products made by Malays. People are Malaysian if they are citizens of Malaysia, even if they are not Malay.

back to nick's mum: her name, her look, and the name of her daughter and nick's middle name clearly indicate a malay identity. That's all original research. Find any reliable source that says she is Malay and that can be included. Without such a source, we can include no statement of any kind about her ethnicity.

the best reference on the issue ie. half-malaysian. You put a lot of stock in what a manager who might have no expertise on ethnicities said one time in an off-the-cuff comment to a reporter. There are many many sources that say she is Malaysian and only one that says half-Malaysian. That plus the fact that being half-Malaysian is impossible is reason enough not to include it. Just because some people are sloppy in their language does not mean Wikipedia should be as well. 99.192.65.39 (talk) 00:35, 6 July 2014 (UTC) (=99.192.83.52)

well you have just reinforced your ignorance. i completely agree that malaysian exports don't imply they are made only by malays. but please do not compare oranges and apples. we are talking about malaysian as an ethnic/national identity. we are not talking about products. find me one chinese malaysian who is only ever referred to as malaysian? Can you do the same for an indian-malaysian? when used singularly, malaysian equates to malay, as i already explained in some detail.
my speculation about her looks etc weren't meant to be anything more than an illustration of my point. please don't focus on an issue i myself have given no weight.
sloppy language?! how is that sloppy?! rather that shows the greater knowledge of his manager simply because half is adding greater detail than just malaysian. his manager makes it clear in the reference that nick is of greek and half-malaysian identity. that is as specific as we currently have. unless you have something that says his manager is wrong or uneducated or you know nick more intimately then i don't see why it should be removed. your opinion that half-malaysian is impossible is just wrong: just as someone can be half-american and half-italian etc., so can someone be half-malaysian and half something else.58.111.196.44 (talk) 01:51, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Malaysia is a country, not an ethnicity. So any Malaysian person regardless of their ethnicity traveling outside of Malaysia and asked what their nationality is, the answer is "Malaysian", not "Chinese-Malaysian" or "Indian-Malaysian". I previously referred to the use of "Malaysian" when what a person means is "Malay" as sloppy, but now it seems clear it is sot sloppy, it's just racist. To refuse to use the word "Malaysian" without a qualifier like "Chinese" or "Indian" when talking about citizenship of a person who is not Malay is just plain racist. Wikipedia should neither endorse nor perpetuate racism. All Malaysian citizens, regardless of their ethnicity, are all "Malaysian". The Malaysian Olympic team all march as one nationality under one flag and with one word to describe them all: Malaysian.

To that point, I now have to wonder if the racism is not just your problem. I decided to try to meet your challenge to find a Chinese-Malaysian who is only referred to as Malaysian. I found Lee Chong Wei, one of the best badminton players in the world. In one article I found (from the BBC) he is referred to as " the most successful Malaysian Olympian ever".[1] The word "Chinese" does not appear in the article at all. In another article (from India) we are told, "Lin Dan of China became the first man to retain the Olympic badminton singles title after beating Malaysian archrival Lee Chong Wei."[2]. Even in an article about him playing a Chinese man, no mention is made that Lee is "Chinese" in any sense. He is just called "Malaysian". So it seems the world media is not as racist as you think they might be. They do not always discount a person's nationality because of their ethnicity.

"your opinion that half-malaysian is impossible is just wrong: just as someone can be half-american and half-italian etc." Someone is only ever referred to as "half American" if what is meant is that one parent is American and the other parent is not. So by that description, since Kyrgios's father was born in Greece and mother born in Malaysia, Kyrgios is half-Greek, half-Malaysian. This is a different sort of claim than one about his nationality, which is 100% Australian, as he was born and raised there. To say his mother is half-Malaysian would be to say that one of her parents was not Malaysian, but from some other country. But at the same time, as someone born and raised in Malaysia, she is 100% Malaysian by nationality. So the most sense that can be made of the manager's comment is that he was indicating that one of Kyrgios' maternal gradparents was not born in Malaysia. But even if true, his mother was born there so she is, like all other people who are citizens by birth, 100% Malaysian. To refuse to acknowledge that she is 100% Malaysian because you suspect she is ethnically part Indian is racist. Wikipedia should not endorse that. 99.192.67.219 (talk) 12:45, 6 July 2014 (UTC) (=99.192.83.52)

ADDENDUM: Since you seem to want to put so much weight on an off-the-cuff comment made by Kyrgios's manager, I thought it might be worth noting what a more official source says. According to his official website, "Nick was born to parents George who is Greek and mother Norlaila who is from Malaysia". Nothing is said about her being "half" anything. And from an interview of Kyrgios on the official Wimbledon page he says, "My mom is Malaysian." Nothing is said about her being "half" anything. Since all media reports that mention his mother say "Malaysian" and not "half-Malaysian" and since Kyrgios himself said "My mom is Malaysian", not "half-Malaysian" I would say that clearly trumps the manager's comment. 99.192.67.219 (talk) 13:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC) (=99.192.83.52)

could you please reply more succinctly because it becomes very arduous to follow and respond to your points when they are so long.
1st i am quite insulted that you accuse me of being a racist. did i ever state that i was in support of the malay seeing themselves as the only true residents of malaysia? no. i was merely stating a reality that exists on the ground. so please don't make insulting insinuations.
this argument seems to be quite circular, so i just have a simple question: why did nick's manager state half for? you say that everyone else describes him as just plain malaysian, so why this different, seemingly unnecessary, description? put simply, his manager wouldn't use such a word if it wasn't true. & since this is the most detailed description of his identity that we currently have, i don't see why it should be removed until it is categorically proven false ie. until nick, his family, or manager come out and say that his mum is only of malaysian descent - not half-malaysian.58.106.231.241 (talk) 06:42, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

(1) If reading four paragraphs is too much for you to manage, maybe you should not be trying to edit Wikipedia pages. When there are many points to cover, sometimes it takes some space to be clear and precise. Like this reply, for example.

(2) You have misread what I wrote. I did not accuse you of being racist. I suggested that you were doing exactly what you said you were doing in your most recent comment on this page, namely, you were suggesting that racism about the use of the word "Malaysian" is common and suggesting that Wikipedia should use the racist way it is used. I also pointed out through the sources I offered that you have overestimated the degree of that racism in the media. It is quite common for people who are not Malay to be referred to simply as "Malaysian" without a qualifier like "Chinese" or "Indian". But regardless, Wikipedia should not perpetuate racism where it exists. We need not (and do not) only use "Malaysian" for people who are Malay.

(3) About Kyrgios's manager, it is odd that you will not accept Kyrgios's own words over his. He said, "My mom is Malaysian." Surely he would know better than his manager. As for explaining the manager's comment, there are many possibilities. As you agree, he is the only person who has ever said "half", so it could just have been him misspeaking. After all, Kyrgios is often referred to as "half-Greek, half-Malaysian" [NB: It is never "one quarter-Malaysian"], so maybe in speaking off the cuff he tripped up over the fact that Kyrgios is half-Malaysian and said it of his mother. Or maybe she is half-Malaysian in the sense I explained above about being half-American, which does not preclude her also being 100% Malaysian in terms of her own birth citizenship. At the very least, these explanations for his comment do not have the problem yours does, which is, in effect, to accuse the manager of being racist for not counting Kyrgios's mother as fully Malaysian because of her ethnicity. WP:BLP would not approve of that.

(4) But the bottom line is this: 99% of all sources say that his mother is Malaysian, not half-Malaysian. This includes his own official webpage and words he spoke himself in an interview. He also is often called "half-Malaysian" and never been called "one quarter-Malaysian", so even sources that like to parse his identity grant his mother is 100% Malaysian. In the face of all that overwhelming evidence you still seem to need to insist that his mother be referred to as "half-Malaysian" based on one source that contradicts the 99% of others. That seems very peculiar. It is beyond doubt that she is Malaysian, so why not have the page say that? Surely WP:BLP, especially WP:NPF, would counsel us to stick with what is indisputable about her: She was born in Malaysia and as such counts as being "Malaysian". 99.192.93.56 (talk) 13:06, 7 July 2014 (UTC) (=99.192.83.52)

you should try and keep your arguments succinct as much as possible because not all contributors are employed by wikipedia: time is precious and you should make the site easy for others to get involved in.
your 3 point is irrelevant because it is all your own speculation. the manager could be right, the manager could be wrong. until someone says he is wrong and that nick's mum is strictly malaysian then we shouldn't question his words. in fact, i could similarly speculate that those who mention only malaysian simply do so for conveniences sake, or perhaps they are embarrassed of the other identity etc.
the reason i am sticking on this is purely because i am after the most specific and accurate detail possible on the subject. after all this is what nick deserves, seeing as he is now under global attention and a rising star.58.106.231.241 (talk) 01:21, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

So why is Nick dark-skinned? Is it the Greek or the Malaysian? What’s the other “half” in his mother: Anglo?120.16.153.99 (talk) 02:40, 27 April 2018 (UTC)MBG I’d like a comment on his temperament too, if you think it falls within the scope of Wiki. Is it related to his ethnicity - or heritage?120.16.153.99 (talk) 09:48, 27 April 2018 (UTC)MBG

Q is he really 9'7" ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.2.12.71 (talk) 13:27, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Controversies

The on-court behavior of Kyrgios has received a fair amount of press, so likely something about that can go in the article. But the following was added to the lead without any references. This sort of material must be sourced, per WP:BLP. Also, the lead is supposed to be a summary of the article, but there was nothing in the article about Fraser. Here's the content that was added to the lead:

He has been involved in on- and off-court controversies, most notably involving Dawn Fraser.

I'm posting it here for discussion. Perhaps we can draft something here about his behavior before putting it in the article. TimidGuy (talk) 10:20, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

He's been up to his old tricks at Wimbledon this year: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/28/nick-kyrgios-fine-wimbledon-spitting-paul-jubb --Ef80 (talk) 14:45, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I think it is time we re-think this section. All the fines and controversies are already mentioned further up. Every other player has received fines and been involved in controversies. None of their Wiki entries list their fines. I removed it a few days ago but it was reinstated as I am a new volunteer and it was suspected that I was a 'vandal'. I'm not! But most of these occurred many years ago, the sources are pre-2020 and Australia has moved on. If Kyrgios is retiring next year we should remove them. A good summarising source of the conflict between the two sides of his career is in the cover article by Matthew Futterman in the New York Times. Nick Kyrgios is coming for Tennis. 15 January 2023.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/15/sports/tennis/nick-kyrgios-australian-open.html

It is very important that we use the latest studies of Kyrgios. Put the controversies in context.

SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 15:12, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Records

I wanted to put forward a suggestion that the “records” section isn’t really necessary, the only entry is a supposed record that isn’t even a standalone, or even shared with one other player, fourteen others have also achieved his “record”, so I would argue that a whole section dedicated to a single record that is actually shared by a considerable chunk of other players isn’t actually necessary, and feel that it should be deleted. Records sections I feel should be dedicated to notable achievements such as numbers of wins, titles, consecutive years winning titles , etc, not for beating the world number 1 as a teenager because that’s not particularly uncommon.Thetradge (talk) 15:50, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

The section was created many years ago when Nick was a young promising talent and some people thought the list would grow. It's now quite obvious that this prediction was too optimistic. I agree that dedicating a whole section to a single "record" shared with many players is excessive. I wouldn't mind removing it.—J. M. (talk) 20:27, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Allegations of assault

Does anyone else feel uneasy about alleged criminal activity being posted on a Wikipedia bio? I am thinking of the Canberra assault allegations. By the way, I am certainly no fan of Kyrgios, but like anyone else he is entitled to be assumed innocent until proven guilty. 110.142.232.71 (talk) 01:03, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

100% agree, but this is wiki...so don't get your hopes up 76.181.201.214 (talk) 07:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

What's in the article is accurate and well sourced. It's inevitable that such news about a public figure such as Kyrgios will appear in the news and in our article. We do not suggest that he is guilty. HiLo48 (talk) 08:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Fair enough. And I yes I understand the situation that there is a reliable source for the allegation being made and the pending court appearance. However I just wonder how reporting allegations fits with the aim of an encyclopedia (Wikipedia) to report facts. Possibly what might help would be a Wikipedia policy which stipulates that only proven allegations should be included in an article. Dunno. 110.142.232.71 (talk) 09:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Why are you thanking someone for responding to you in a condescending manner? lol 76.181.201.214 (talk) 06:43, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

I just read your entry here and am interested in the fact that your are 'no fan of Kyrgios'. I was accused of conflict of interest because I wanted to put a more positive slant on some of the entries for balance, in line with entries for other controversial players. Do you think that only volunteers who dislike Kyrgios are allowed to write on his page? Now that he is about to retire, I really believe that we should remove the old fines and controversies - many going back eight years - and concentrate on the present and future contributions. This will help reduce the repetitions and bias that is current. But if we can only put material in that is negative, there is not much I can do to contribute. Any comment on this please? Most of this year's long studies discuss both negative and positive aspects, listing Kyrgios's controversies as well as his emerging contributions to the sport through the players associations. SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 14:04, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Price money

The amount of US $ 39.905.710 in Kyrgios records can’t be right. 49.180.229.55 (talk) 03:04, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Mental health

Please,somebody take Nick and try and fight the Demons within. How Obvious Is it he needs Professional Help and Guidance with his own life. RU OK 124.169.92.195 (talk) 10:54, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

He has apparently been very open about these issues with a recent long form article in Men's Health published in UK. There are also instances and references of his joint venture with Naomi Osaka and the PTPA regarding his role in sport and mental health issues. I am finding it difficult as a new volunteer to put new material in. Would like some advice as to how to go about this. SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 12:41, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

There are a number of good links which you seem not to have been told about. Men's Health is an important magazine which did a cover story/interview with Nick Kyrgios. Here is the link: https://www.menshealth.com/uk/mental-strength/a44369343/nick-kyrgios-alastair-campbell/ July edition.

The BEST description of the background to Kyrgios's mental health issues is in The Times January 14 2023

Volatile? I think I'm pretty level-headed by Laura Pullman.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nick-kyrgios-interview-2023-585t3690d It's also a cover story.

It details all his controversies as well.

ALSO The importance of the Professional Players Tennis Players Association is championed by Novak Djokovic who started it. https://ptpaplayers.com/

Nick joined PTPA in July 2023 to further the cause of mental health of players. Link:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/sports/tennis/nick-kyrgios-draws-inspiration-from-nba-says-tennis-needs-more-team-environment-101689162423523.html

The first major article on Kyrgios's mental health issues was published in the Sydney Morning Herald by Chris Dutton in November 2018 after a tough year on tour Link:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/nick-kyrgios-opens-up-about-mental-health-foundation-and-injuries-20181103-p50dsa.html

If there's anything I can do to help update or write/summarise please adviseSueoftheAntipodes (talk) 14:40, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Is "Men's Health published in UK" an online journal? Can you provide a link to it? If you can, and it's seen as a reliable source, we can use it to add content to the article.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:07, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Nick Kyrgios section: Reputation. "This section has multiple issues - please help improve it or discuss

Hi. The section on Reputation is 2240 words long. It is extremely confused, contains emotive and judgemental language unsuitable to a Wiki entry, duplicates and omits important details and emphasises issues that occurred earlier in Kyrgios's career. Much of the worst instances occurred before 2019. They are scarcely relvant but are still being held against him because of your entry. I have 21 years experience as a careers and education journalist, editor and writer as well as understanding tennis and being a supporter of all young players, including Australians. We need to fix up this section. Please can I help. Also, I would like to suggest a new section, Kyrgios in popular culture and media influence. This is because in recent years a number of in-depth studies have been carried out by career sports analysts in magazines like Racquet, GQ, Esquire and New Yorker as well as Weekend Magazine which shed new light on what has influenced Kyrgios. The effect of racism is finally emerging and we can instance the many infamous cartoons which no other country would have been allowed to publish, which exaggerate his features as a person of colour. His role in the Break Point series should be highlighted including his many quotes - also its effect on him and other players. Kyrgios was assessed as the third highest sports influencer in Australia this year despite not playing. His role in starting important conversations which lead to change in sport cannot be underestimated. There are many basic facts which are quite wrong or omitted. The writers have continually stressed negatives while omitting positives. His major role in the 2017 Davis Cup tie against the USA is not there. This sort of omission while repeating behavioural issues is unbalanced. Can I help restore the balance in line with the other current players who have also been disqualified from tournaments? These include Zverev, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Paire, Fognini, Djokovic and Ymer. None of their entries mention fines, disqualifications or behavioural issues. All have glowing reports of their abilities as great players. At present, Nick's entry is unreadable. It is unwieldy and appears to be written with agendas of negativity. I am sure this is not true as you are all volunteers of good intent. However, so many young tennis players are now having to take time off - or leave the sport entirely - because of serious depression and distress due to media, social media and professional pressure that there is no necessity to over emphasise poor behaviour in a rapidly changing sport. This year, without Kyrgios, has seen the worst behaviour on tour ever as noted by many professional commentators. Please advise how I can best edit or provide copy for a greater improvement. Kind regards. SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 16:11, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Restoration of a deletion

Hi, I am new to this editing process and need your advice. I recently deleted a section as requested by the editor inviting volunteers to improve it or discuss. However the deletion was restored. All of the references are over four years old and take no account of more recent events and occurrences on this topic. Please advise. SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 11:39, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Nick Kyrgios:Personal life: basketball

Personal life: basketball. You should add a reference and description of the interview about Kyrgios which was published in Racquet Magazine, a major top end magazine for tennis 'buffs'. Racquet 16. Cover story. Big Nick Energy by Giri Nathan spring 2021 Describes his year away from the sport during Covid lockdown and how he views the sport. It's very long but good reference. https://racquetmag.com/2021/06/25/big-nick-energy/SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 14:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Nick Kyrgios: Effects of Racism on his Tennis

Kyrgios has not used the 'racism' card but in a few long form interviews in 2023 it has become evident that racism has played a big part in his career. He was the subject of the cover article in Esquire Australia, June 2023.https://www.esquire.com.au/sports/nick-kyrgios-interview-on-tennis-career/ in which he was interviewed about his thoughts on his entire career. The last page covers racism in Australian sport in general. Other important articles are the infamous cartoons by Mark Knight, Serena Williams and Kyrgios, published by Newscorp https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6153383/Cartoonist-Mark-Knight-hits-slammed-racist-cartoon-Serena-Williams.html However there are positive cartoons in Australia such as the Guardian First Dog on the Moon January 2021 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/12/nick-kyrgios-australias-sweetheart-and-the-peoples-prince It is very important the Wikipedia entry reflects the most recent analyses of Kyrgios. At present your references are often very old references from writers in tabloids and gosspip online. SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 18:09, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

We certainly can't use any Daily Mail content, see WP:DAILYMAIL also see WP:NOTNEWS, we don't need the most recent analyses of Kyrgios. Theroadislong (talk) 17:46, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Agree about the Daily Mail. Does this mean we are not allowed to write any entries on Racism in Sport? And are we not allowed to use any articles from 2023? I find this rather confusing. You have a section called, Public Perceptions, but this can only be written by 'opinion pieces' which are not allowed. In the second paragraph of the entry you use a NY Times opinion piece about racquet smashing and you seem happy about that. What do we use if we are not allowed to read anything from this year?SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 18:53, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

There is no restriction on using sources from this year, but we need to be mindful of WP:NOTNEWS, while news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion and Wikipedia is not written in news style. Theroadislong (talk) 19:03, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. That's very helpful. Have just read it. It was the racist cartoon in the Daily Mail which the rest of the world thought was so shocking that first made me look Kyrgios up on WP. There is also an explanation of WP:NOTGOSSIP and WP:NOTDIARY. Perhaps we could look at reducing some of the huge lists of matches, wins, losses, fines, withdrawals, injuries...in the light of the NOTDIARY guidelines. Did you read my initial post about the fines? ATP no longer imposes fines in that way and no longer publishes them. It would be best if this section is erased because no other player still has their fines listed despite being much more serious in many cases. I understand about news now.SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 19:23, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Removal/editing of 'controversies' section.

I would like to suggest again that we remove this section. I have checked the Wikipedia entries for Novak Djokovic, Stefanos Tsitipas, Daniel Medvedev, Andrey Rublev and Sascha Bublik. ALL of these high profile players have received significant fines and been involved in complex controversies with referees and other players during 2022 and 2023. None have any entries on their Wikipedia pages concerning these issues. There is no reason to single Nick Kyrgios out as if he was more disrespectful than other players. Please can other volunteers reply to this request. The section leader has asked for out help to reduce or edit it.SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 21:26, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Such sections are rarely helpful. Criticisms should be associated with the times and parts of his life when they occured. But what's a section leader? HiLo48 (talk) 22:15, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant 'header'. There is a box above the 'Reputation' heading which says the section is too long and the language is not suitable for an encyclopedia and of interest only to a narrow audience. This comment is correct. Novak was fined $9000 at Wimbledon this year for smashing a racquet against a net post. He smashed two racquets with his foot last week. Why isn't this on his WP page? Stefanos has had repeated arguments and smashed racquets and fines - why no mention? Rublev has had some terrible incidents as has Rune and Medvedev who 'fingered' the crowd last week. Why have these not been mentioned on their WP entries? I do not think ANY of this is relevant to ANY of the achievements of these players including Kyrgios. Every player blows up during stressful moments. As to the Perception of his character...whose perception? This is totally subjective as to which journalist you select to quote!! I would very much like to eliminate all such subjective matter. If the volunteers wish to keep Kyrgios's fines from 2016 then keep them in his 2016 entry. He has spent a lot of time in podcasts this year explaining how all this happened and why so that other players can learn from his mistakes. I am a tennis fan in general and believe we should be representing the sport fairly for all players and future players. Can we get any other volunteers in this discussion?SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 23:00, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Influence of racism

I would like to suggest that we include a section on racism on Kyrgios's career as it has been a part of the conversation over the last two years beginning with Wimbledon 2022 and the Murray match in Stuttgart where he lost his temper after being called a black monkey and Murray called it ugly. He has also made some positive comments recently saying he looks forward to the time when racism is not part of any conversation as he has a very broad friendship group. It is very important that this is said also. I have collected a number of references to make a short section if other people agree it could be useful.SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 12:11, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

A good idea, but perhaps challenging. Being Australian, Kyrgios will have done a lot of mixing with people who would be described elsewhere, particularly in the US, as being of different races. Australian aren't given official racial labels. Nobody is asked to state their race on the census. From whose perspective will you describe the racism? HiLo48 (talk) 23:59, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes challenging.The Piers Morgan Uncensored interview and you tube was seen by many millions and highlighted in all sorts of media. Last week. Kyrgios discussed his friendship group and hopes for the future. The Esquire study (above) included a general study in light of the many sports in Oz now implementing strict anti-racism rules. His observations in Racquet #14 are positive about the future of tennis. His post after the Stuttgart loss was indicative of the effect a tiny minority of vocal hecklers has on the play of all players of colour. The infamous Mark Knight cartoons are disgusting and have hurt his family deeply. The Guardian cartoons are affectionate. The Kyrgios family suffers from 'migrantism' (before Chinese or Africans were admitted and before most white Australians had ever met an aboriginal person.) Almost any other sport would embrace Kyrgios. Just not tennis. I would approach it carefully, from the point of view of the sport, using Kyrgios's experiences as examples of past and hope for the future with his quotes and references from and to the articles. Very much a brief report. What do you think? Have a look at Richard Cooke: Talent to Burn in The Monthly, essay number 5.March 2018. First time I realised it was a 'thing'. Just think we should give readers a few leads.SueoftheAntipodes (talk) 14:53, 7 December 2023 (UTC)