Talk:Henrikh Mkhitaryan

First mention

Shouldn't the first mention of Mkhitaryan's full name include his middle name/patronymic (Hamleti) rather than his nickname? I propose changing it to something like this:

• Henrikh Hamleti Mkhitaryan (Armenian: Հենրիխ Համլետի Մխիթարյան, born 21 January 1989), nicknamed "Heno," is an Armenian football player...

This would adhere to the Manual of Style for biographical articles. Jackal 19:14, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

That might be better! --Երևանցի ^talk 16:33, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Please take a look at Kakha Kaladze. Note that its a GA. I think the current format is acceptable for athletes. --Երևանցի ^talk 18:29, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

But in Kaladze's case, the nickname appears to be more common than his given name–so much so that it is the name used in the actual article title. That isn't the case with Mkhitaryan. Jackal 05:20, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

I guess you're right. Let's see what other users say. You can go ahead put it the way you find right. --Երևանցի ^talk 05:25, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Stop adding DFL Super-Cup 2013 to his Honours

He was not part of the squad for the game and officially he was not part of the team which won the trophy, that's why he was not presented a medal either. He will win enough trophies with Dortmund, no need to attribute him trophies which he is officially not a part of. 2.222.214.148 (talk) 23:55, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Look at this image [1] See him? It doesn't matter if he played or not. He is part of the team. Take Pepe Reina. He didn't play a game in 2008 and 2012 Euros and the 2010 World Cup he still won those competitions with Spain. Who is irrational? --Երևանցի ^talk 00:16, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

He's at the image, but it doesn't mean anything on an official level. Officially he was not part of the squad and he was not on the list of the medal receivers.

You prove my point! Reina didn't play games but was considered one of the winners, but don't forget he was a member of the squad. On that game, Mkhitaryan was not a member of the squad. If he would be listed as a substitute but wouldn't play at all, he still would be considered one of the winners. But because unlike Reina, he was not even in the squad he didn't win this trophy. 2.222.214.148 (talk) 07:44, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

To make it more clear. Look at the squads on 2013 DFL-Supercup, do you see Mkhitaryan? Neither do I! From the other hand, look at 2010 FIFA World Cup squads#Spain. Do you see Reina in? Exactly! That's why Reina did get a medal and was part of the winning team. 2.222.214.148 (talk) 07:49, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Look at Borussia Dortmund's squad as of 10 July 2013. You see Mkhitaryan's name? Exactly! --Երևանցի ^talk 13:41, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes but that squad is the squad for the championship, and probably cup and champions league. You don't create one squad which applies to all tournaments, you have to send the squad to each tournament separately, and if one player is in the premier league squad but not in the champions league squad, he will not be considered a winner of the champions league if they win it. Mkhitaryan is in the squad for the championship, but he was not in the squad for the 2013 DFL-Supercup, so he is not counted as part of the squad which won the championship. 2.222.214.148 (talk) 17:48, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

NPOV dispute - Personal Life

Using correct Politcal Terms Nagorno Karabakh is not "Artsakh" by international standards it is de-facto independent and de-jure part of Azerbaijan so without mentioning this the disinformation is being spread as if the above mentioned semi-entity is an independent government. Also the part of occupation should be mentioned as already 4 UN resolutions mention it as occupied territory! I have no idea how a neutrality of article is achieved when a clearly only one side of the party is represented? Agulani (talk) 06:34, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

You shouldn't wikilnk Nagorno-Karabakh twice in one sentence. Moreover Nagorno-Karabakh is merely a geographic region, and that is why Wikipedia has a separate article titled Nagorno-Karabakh Republic.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:14, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Done and noted for future, i believe now the part presents a neutral point of view and should be ok with both sides. Thanks for the help Agulani (talk) 22:18, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps I was being unclear. I recommend deleting the words "which is a de facto independent and de jure part of Azerbaijan Republic". I do not see why those words are useful here; those words refer to Nagorno Karabakh which is merely a geographic region, whereas those words might have been useful if they were referring to the political entity Nagorno Karabakh Republic. So, I suggest removing the words I have quoted. Another reason to remove them is because they are not suggested by the cited source, and we need to avoid WP:SYNTH. The sources do not say that Mkhitaryan was visiting an independent and de jure part of Azerbaijan.Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Anythingyouwant. It appears that you're trying to make a WP:POINT. Wikipedia is not a place to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Nagorno-Karabakh is a term used both by Armenians and Azeris, there's no reason to bring the political status into question here. Étienne Dolet (talk) 00:58, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Well i believe then we have reached a consensus to use instead of "Artsakh", Nagorno Karabagh as it is more neutral point here. If this is fine with all the parties i will go ahead and adjust as we agreed here. Also i will use this discussion and arbitration rule in the future. Thanks again for the help Agulani (talk) 07:54, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Albanian origin

Mkhitaryan is not of Albanian Origin. There is no mention anywhere, besides this one article. It is obviously a typo as there is no mention of Albanian anywhere else in the article. Here is a list of Albanian_Footballer_of_the_Year winners and another list of footballer of the year winners. Ninetoyadome (talk) 23:54, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

How many times do I have to tell you, there are two awards for the best Albanian footballer: of Superleague and of Albanian origin. The winners of the second award are Lorik Cana who won it during his time at PSG and Marseille, Bogdani at Verona, Shaqiri at Bayern and Mkhitaryan at Donetsk. The awards you found: Albanian_Footballer_of_the_Year is about the best footballer of the superleague wich means they play in Albania and you can see the players and their teams for yourself, they play in the Albanian league (which means it's a diffrent award from the one Mkhitaryan won). footballer of the year is unreliable: It does not show the full list (the years 2000,2001,2002,2005,2006,2007 and before 1999 are not shown), Daniel Xhafaj, Armando Vajushi and Orges Shehi never won the award but only minor award in the Albanian league like best player of the month.PapadopulousStanis (talk) 06:54, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Then show reliable sources for your claims. Also long as you cannot provide a reliable source for this "award of Albanian origin" you talk about, I don't believe it. I also think that there is a high probability that this "Albanian" award mentioned in the article is just a typo and was meant to be "Armenian". --Jaellee (talk) 08:50, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

That might be but the source is reliable.PapadopulousStanis (talk) 08:56, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

If Mkhitaryan had won any kind of Albanian footballer of the Year award I'm sure it would have been mentioned on an Albanian Sports site and you could provide a link. There are sources show that other players won that award during Mkhitaryan's time in the Ukraine. Even if these sources do not show all the winners, they show that there is something wrong with the article at worldfootballweekly.com. So there is at least one provable error in this article. This strongly decreases the reliability.

There is no mention of any other type of Albanian Footballer of the Year award. The Albanian Wikipedia only mentions the Albanian Footballer of the Year award and you haven't provided any proof so far that such an award exists. I don't believe anything just because you said so. --Jaellee (talk) 11:25, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't really care what you think, I care what's real. If you wan't proof about another. Award look at Cana's Awards at his page he won it during his time at Psg Marseille and Bogdani who won it during his time at Verona. And see the Albanian footballer page all winners play in Albanian league, the other list you found was a mix you can see it yourself. PapadopulousStanis (talk) 13:51, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I have sources that show that the statement from worldfootballweekly.com that Mkhitaryan won the Albanian Footballer of the Year during his time in the Ukraine is wrong, so the reliability of this article is highly questionable. Even if he won such an award it would not prove that he is of Albanian origin. Either you provide reliable sources for his Albanian origins or this has to be removed from Mkhitaryan's article per WP:BLP. --Jaellee (talk) 14:29, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Why don't you show us the "sources" you have. PapadopulousStanis (talk) 14:35, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Because they are not reliable or say that he never won such an award. It's your job to provide sources, see WP:PROVEIT. --Jaellee (talk) 14:38, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

You said you had sources, I wan't to see the sources you have cause worldfootballweekly is reliable. PapadopulousStanis (talk) 15:09, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

worldfootballweekly.com says (emphasis mine): "Armenia’s brightest son won the Ukrainian double on three consecutive occasions during his time at the Donbass Arena, the Albanian Player of the Year award twice, the Ukrainian Premier League Player of the Year award and, most recently, the 2012/13 Ukrainian Premier League Golden Boot, scoring twenty five goals."

Mkhitaryan played between 2009 and 2013 in the Ukraine. In 2009 and 2010 Elis Bakaj won the Albanian Footballer of the Year award [2], in 2011 Armando Vajushi [3] and in 2012 Orges Shehi [4]. The worldfootballweekly.com article was published on 10 August 2013, so we don't have to consider the 2013 award because the election for the award was in December 2013 (also in 2013 Daniel Xhafa won [5]) and the 2014 award (won by Alban Hoxha [6]). So the sentence quoted above from worldfootballweekly.com is at least wrong in one point which makes it unreliable.

As Mkhitaryan won the Armenian Footballer of the Year award in 2009 and four years in a row from 2011 to 2014 (see the sources in that article) the mentioning of "Albanian" is most probably a typo and "Armenian" was intended.

And even if he had won an Albanian award this would not mean that he is of Albanian origin. There is no source that would prove that, after all foreign players in the Albanian Superliga can be nominated for the award, for example Pero Pejić [7].

As there is only one source, and that one doesn't say he is of Albanian origin - and there's the issue of whether he played in a league which qualified foreigners to get the awared, I'm inclined to see this as a BLP violation but suggest it be taken to BLPN or RSN. Doug Weller (talk) 15:42, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

The award is about footballers of Albanian origin, Cana, Bogdani and Shaqiri also won it playing for other leagues, country (in case of Shaqiri and Mkhitaryan) but of Albanian origin. And there is another award for the best player of Albanian superleague also called Albanian Footballer of the Year award and in our case you and other editors are getting confused. PapadopulousStanis (talk) 16:20, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Again, like others have stated, this is the only page that says he has won the Albanian Footballer of the Year award. No where else in the article does it talk about him having Albanian origin. How can we add that he is of Albanian Origin when there is only one article that says it, and it is most likely a typo as there is no mention of it anywhere else in the article? Ninetoyadome (talk) 16:44, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Here is an article about him on UEFA when he won Player of the year while at Shakhtar, no mention of Albania. His [8]biography makes no mention of him winning the Albanian of the year award. There is not a single article, besides that article and it was only one sentence, that states he is of Albanian origin. If there is then show it. Ninetoyadome (talk) 16:56, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Ok I agree with you. PapadopulousStanis (talk) 17:07, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Notes on recent edit war

• This page falls under Wikipedia's discretionary sanctions system. Editors are explicitly expected to refrain from edit warring and gain consensus for any changes.
• BLP's require good quality sources that clearly support the material being added. If the material is contentious, multiple sources are required.

--NeilN ^{talk to me} 14:22, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2015

46.70.178.78 (talk) 10:20, 23 August 2015 (UTC)