Talk:Cleft lip and cleft palate

Template:WikiProject Genetics

Syndromes causing Cleft Lip

Can someone please add DiGeorge (VCFS) Syndrome to the list? Thanks.

Percentage of babies born with cleft lip

The first section in the article states that about 1 in 700 babies is born with a cleft lip/palate. A few sentences later, the article states that one in 600 to 800 babies is born with a cleft lip/palate. One of these two redundant sentences needs to be removed, depending on whether researchers have agreed that the figure is about 1 in 700, or whether it's still in dispute. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.117.85.104 (talk) 02:14, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

• Hi, as to the inconsistencies in the above stats, here is the link to the most current stats I could find for the U.S. from a reliable source: http://www.nidcr.nih.gov/DataStatistics/FindDataByTopic/CraniofacialBirthDefects/PrevalenceCleft+LipCleftPalate.htm

I could find current stats for the province of Alberta, Canada - but I do not think these specific details add value to understanding the prevalence of the condition ... let me know what the editors of this article think.--4tiggy (talk) 18:42, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Error in pre surgical devices?

I beleive there is an error in the section Pre-Surgical Devices for Cleft Lip Treatment. It states "Nasoalveolar molding followed by surgery can reduce long-term nasal symmetry among patients with complete unilateral cleft lip cleft palate patients compared to surgery alone, according to a retrospective cohort study.[13]" From the following information ("significant improvement," etc.), it seems that nasoalveolar moding would INCREASE long-term nasal symmetry (or, alternatively, reduce long-term nasal asymmetry). I am not an expert though and I don't feel like researching it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.101.160.35 (talk) 13:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

I think you are correct, the referenced article also states the long-term symmetry is improved and not reduced. I changed the wiki article accordingly. Felsir (talk) 12:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Backwards infringement

An earlier version of this article has been substantially reproduced under claim of full copyright at http://hubpages.com/hub/about_cleft_palate. The individual who created that article, "Spuds", has (according to his profile) been a member for three years as of this writing. Therefor he could not have created that article before 2007, and a review of the condition of the article in December 2006, here, makes apparent that the content was here first. Any significant contributors of that content may complain to the webhost if they object to the use of this content out of license. See http://hubpages.com/help/user_agreement, section 16. Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks has some suggestions for how to approach websites about non-compliance, if editors wish to pursue this. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:17, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

hairlip and cleft palate

It's unclear to me from this article what a "hairlip" is in a technical sense and how it differs from a cleft palate, which is what I came here to learn. The proper term is "harelip" and is a derrogatory term that began as a reference to the lip looking similar to that of a rabbit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.117.32.71 (talk) 15:42, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

"hairlip" is a degenerative term to describe a cleft lip. A cleft lip is a gap in the (upper)lip tissue, while cleft palate is a gap in the roof of the mouth. So- "hairlip" is a gap in the lip tissue. The difference is the location of the gap. Felsir (talk) 12:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

As a parent of a child born with a cleft lip and palate I find the tern 'harelip' to refer to the pulling of the lip towards the nose as a result of difficult or old surgery techniques resulting in a hare or rabbit lip nick. Corrective surgery has improved and currently many cleft lip corrections do no result in this pull. This term is very offensive in medically incorrect.

From my brief search, it appears that hairlip and cleft lip refer to the same condition. Hairlip and hair lip also redirect here. So I changed the unsourced sentence It has sometimes colloquially been equated with the phrase harelip, but this is used incorrectly, as that term refers to the pulling of the lip towards the nose. to An older term is harelip, based on the similarity to the cleft in the lip of a hare. (The source is here but didn't add it as I don't thinks it's a "reliable source.") If there is evidence for them being different conditions, please correct, with source(s). Thanks. --Chriswaterguy talk 13:30, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

references flag

THis article was flagged as needing better citations in 2009. Looking at it now, it seems like the flag might be unwarranted? Could some one specify the offending items here so that we can address them? Benjamin Good (talk) 16:29, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

It looks like there are several places where someone marked citations needed. I propose adding the following articles as references for the microform cleft section: Chou E, Ko EW, Chen PK, Yu JC, Chang SC (2009) "Microform or incomplete medican cleft lip: strategy and management". Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery. 124 (6): 437e-438e. Kim EK, Khang SK, Lee TJ, Kim TG (2010). "Clinical features of the microform cleft lip and the ultrastructural characteristics of the orbicularis oris muscle". Cleft Palate Craniofac. J. 47 (3): 297-302. Yuzuriha S, Mulliken JB (2008) "Minor-form, microform, and mini-microform cleft lip: anatomical features, operative techniques, and revisions". Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery. 122 (5): 1485-1493). I will look for other appropriate citations. CleftCGC (talk) 21:11, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Joaquin Phoenix

Should be in the section of notable people with Cleft lip and palate. Ros Pratch101.161.25.79 (talk) 05:27, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

He doesn't have a cleft lip and palate, he has something called a microcleft. Totorotroll (talk) 14:21, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Thoughts on lead: article box indicates that article may be too technical and could use suggestions to improve readability

In the lead section, I wonder if a few minor syntax edits would make this article lead more readable. For example: "are variations of a type of clefting congenital deformity caused by abnormal facial development during gestation" ... could read ... "are congenital deformities caused during gestation"; "A cleft is a fissure or opening—a gap. It is the non-fusion of the body's natural structures that form before birth." ... could read ... A cleft is a fissure or opening of the body's anatomical structures that fails to fuse or join before birth."--4tiggy (talk) 19:00, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

SmileTrain

I don't think it mentioned anything about SmileTrain, the world's most revolutionary company. also, I guess that could be mentioned in a Wiki page link, and link to the official site under external link, and I Think you should PLEASE REOVE THE FREAKING GRAPHIC PICTURES!!!!! --John Smith 16:16, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Disagree. The images are important to show what cleft lip and palate is.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:05, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Factual accuracy regarding cleft lip/palate late term abortions in the UK

The section "Controversy" reads:

"British clergywoman Joanna Jepson, who suffered from a congenital jaw deformity herself (not a cleft lip or palate as is sometimes reported), has started legal action to stop the practice in the United Kingdom[55][56] (although in the United Kingdom, such an abortion would not be permitted under the 1967 Abortion Act, because a cleft lip and palate is not considered a serious handicap)."

This is incorrect. Actually Joanna Jepson lost her case which involved the abortion of a 28 weeks fetus for cleft; the Crown Prosecution decided to not prosecute the two doctors who authorized the abortion arguing that they believed in good faith that the child would suffer of a "serius handicap" (abortions after 24 weeks in the UK are allowed if the child would have a "serious handicap").[1]

The current guidelines from the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) state that "a strict definition [of what constitutes a serious handicap] is impractical"; they address the cleft issue and state that is up to the doctors to decide on a case by case basis if the abortion is warranted. [2]Skydeepblue (talk) 09:03, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Subjective, uncited comments

The section "environment" reads: Other environmental factors that have been studied include: seasonal causes (such as pesticide exposure); maternal diet and vitamin intake; retinoids — which are members of the vitamin A family; anticonvulsant drugs; alcohol; cigarette use; nitrate compounds; organic solvents; parental exposure to lead; and illegal drugs (cocaine, crack cocaine, heroin, etc.).

Being under the heading 'Causes/environmental' this implies there is a link between these factors and cleft palate/lip but no studies are cited or their results; the whole paragraph is as bogus as mentioning all the factors that have not been studied; indeed if it is to be kept then such a paragraph should also be added. And the 'illegal drugs' point; does this include all drugs classified by any government as illegal? Or just the ones mentioned and 'etc' whatever that means? Adamgpope (talk) 22:19, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 November 2012

We would like to add a paragraph about the nose deformities in cleft lip/palate patients. We have written about the nasal deformities in uni- and bilateral clefts and we described the procedures which can recover the nose. We have used reliable sources, which include literature from the Plastic Surgery department.

Should we copy the hole text in here or could we add it ourselves in some way, if it's accepted? We don't exactly know how this works..

This is the text we would like to add: [Edited by User:Nathan Johnson to remove the large amount of text and replace with a link to user's sandbox.]

Text available at User:Danielleaniska/sandbox

Danielleaniska (talk) 13:49, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Since this page is semi-protected, please paste the requested text below and re-activate this edit request when you do so. An auto-confirmed user will check to see whether or not the edit is appropriate. Please note that any text added to this article must conform to the policies on verifiability and neutral point-of-view. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:17, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Whatever its merits or failings, the proposed text strikes me as overly technical and overly long. Rivertorch (talk) 07:46, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm marking this request as answered again, not because there isn't good material to add in the request, but because there is too much information and it's overly technical nature. Before this gets added, it will need to be significantly reduced and simplified. Thank you for your good work on this. If you need help on what needs to be done to your sandbox to make it suitable for this article, and nobody chimes in on this page, please contact me on my User talk page and I'll try to find someone suitably knowledgeable about medicine that would be willing to help. Thanks. :) -Nathan Johnson (talk) 00:28, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 April 2013

Hi I am an ENT surgeon in Oxford. There are some errors on this page "Individuals with cleft also face many middle ear infections which can eventually lead to total hearing loss". Better to say "Individuals with cleft may also face middle ear infections which can also lead to mild to moderate hearing loss"

Children will not develop "total hearing loss" unless they also have a malformed cochlea. Parents may be worried by the incorrect information.

Moodydoody (talk) 16:41, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Partly done: I have made the wording a bit more ambiguous than your proposal as you have provided no source for your proposal, and the article as previously worded was also unsourced. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 17:28, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 April 2013

98.251.189.68 (talk) 21:48, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

In Growth and Development class ( 2013 ) we learned that Cleft lip and palate's developmental defect is "Malformation or Disruption", not deformation as mentioned in Wikipedia opening paragraph ( deformation is when abnormal form, shape, or position of part of the body is caused by mechanical forces; disruption is when morphological defect from extrinsic interference with an originally normal development process; malformation is when morphological defect from intrinsically abnormal developmental process occurs ).

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. I don't doubt that what you're saying is medically correct. However, the word "deformity" appears throughout this article, not just in the lede. Without a reliable source cited to make the changes (and the medical expertise to understand what I'm reading), I'm not going to make the change you request. Might I suggest that you register an account and edit Wikipedia for awhile, and you would be able to make edits to articles such as this on your own? --ElHef (Meep?) 05:08, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit Request on 20 October 2013

You may add the following terminology: Cheilopalatoschisis = cleft lip and palate; Cheilognathopalatoschisis = cleft lip and jaw and palate;

The incidence statistic is wrong

The article wrongly states that the 1 in 700 children are born with a cleft lip and palate. The actual statistics are:

Cleft Lip and Palate Incidence

1:1000 Caucasians 1:700 Orientals 1:2500 Black Africans 1:100 Some Native Americans

Source: see Mossey PA et al., Lancet 2009; Dixon MJ et al., Nat Rev Genet 2011

[I am a medical school student] — Preceding unsigned comment added by OR21 (talk • contribs) 17:40, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Have updated the lead. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:30, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2015

The "Other Animals" section doesn't make sense in this article. This article is obviously about humans affected. There should be a separate article to talk about this specific condition for animals. (It is also a common offense for people who have this condition being associated with animals.) Few other human conditions have an "Other animals" section -with pictures- included in their article. This article is often read by people who know someone affected (and want to know more about something not easy to talk openly), and the "Other Animal" section is written at the end, like a conclusion. It definitely doesn't make sense,especially the way it is presented, and with dogs pictures with a ... "harelip". Evandres (talk) 22:11, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Though if nobody responds in a couple ideas, go ahead and leave a message on my talk page and I'll take a look at it myself. Kharkiv07^Talk 01:48, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Addition to the "Works of fiction" section

Shame that the article is protected... this is definitely a dilution of wikipedia's original ethos.

Anyhow, I suggest to those who can edit the article this addition to the "Works of fiction" section:

>> The science fiction novel Dark Eden [3] depicts a society with an extremely high rate of cleft palate, due to inbreeding. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RidiculouslyThrowawayAccount (talk • contribs) 01:11, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

User:RidiculouslyThrowawayAccount were does that source mention the condition? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:33, 11 July 2015 (UTC)