Talk:Autism spectrum

"for example, the vaccine hypotheses have been disproven"

Exactly how, according to this editor, have the vaccine hypotheses have been disproven?

I do not believe that such a claim could be scientifically justified. I am going to change the language to reflect this. If you revert the change, please provide full justification of the claim that the vaccine hypotheses have been disproven. ---Dagme (talk) 10:02, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

The lead doesn't need to be cited, but the statement to which it corresponds in the body does. Autism#Causes - last paragraph. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢) 10:57, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Article quality and order

I would love to work on the articles quality: structure, sources, general language. I suggest that a "controversy" section is needed to place theories such as vaccination and Round up attributed causation. Some references need adjustment to the new criteria established by the DSM V. It would also be good to list the set of tests that can be used by age and type for diagnosis. Chibs007 (talk) 18:22, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

"Controversy" sections are not recommended. We discuss the fact that vaccines do not cause autism in the causes section. The DSM5 is discussed. However please keep in mind that while this book is important it is not the only important source. As this page is getting long a subpage on diagnosis of autism and ASD may be a good idea. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:04, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying that "controversy" sections are not recommended. Noticed someone already fixed the reference to vaccines in the first paragraph and added a link to a complete controversy page. DSMV's changes from DSMIV are not obvious in the current page (completelly understand about it being one source but in many countries it is the most important one). I agree with that a subpage could be a good idea. The article seems more organized than the last time I read it. Chibs007 (talk) 16:23, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Lead is typically kept to 4 paragraphs per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Elements_of_the_lead Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:09, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

There is already a page for autism controversies- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_in_autism gr3524a talk

Low birth weight and preterm birth

Is there a reason that low birth weight and/or preterm birth are not noted in the article as possible causes of autism? This information might have been in this article before, but was removed due to poor sourcing and/or insufficient evidence. There are WP:MEDRS-compliant sources that list low birth weight and/or preterm birth as possible causes of autism. For example, the following sources:

• This 2012 Autism Spectrum Disorders: Practical Overview For Pediatricians, An Issue of Pediatric Clinics source from Elsevier Health Sciences, page 87. While that source, including that page, emphasizes autism spectrum disorder (ASD: Autism spectrum#Classification) more so than what is considered "classic autism," it also states, "Other studies have shown similar associations between low birth weight and preterm delivery and the later development of autism."

• This 2013 Rethinking Autism: Variation and Complexity 2013 source, from Academic Press, page 249, states, "Prenatal risk factors for autism include infant hypoxia during delivery, cesarean section delivery, lower birth weight at full term delivery, and low Apgar scores at birth (Hultman et al., 2002; Larsson et al., 2005)."

• And, as for older research, this 2013 Neurobiological Issues in Autism Current Issues in Autism source from Springer Science & Business Media is a reprint of a 1987 source. On page 186, it states, "For many years it was generally believed that most low-birth weight infants either were born prematurely or were abnormal. However, there have been many recent reports of low incidents of handicaps (10% or less) among very-low-birth-weight survivors cared for with methods designed to prevent handicaps. Nevertheless, the relationship between low birth weight and autism has been investigated . Two of these studies (Deykin & MacMahon, 1980; Finegan & Quarrington, 1979) observed a similarly low incidence of low birth weight in both the autistic and the sibling group (Table 1)."

On the other hand, this 2009 Child Neuropsychology: Assessment and Interventions for Neurodevelopmental Disorders, 2nd Edition source, from Springer Science & Business Media, page 253, states, "Low birth weight (defined as less than 2,5000 g) was not associated with an increased risk of autism." And this 2011 Textbook of Autism Spectrum Disorders source, from the American Psychiatric Pub, pages 242-243, states, "However, study results suggest that low birth weight per se is not likely associated with increased risk of autism. Although low birth weight was examined in six epidemiological studies (Eaton et al. 2001; Glasson et al. 2004; Hultman et al. 2002; Larsson et al. 2005; Maimburg and Vaeth 2006; Schendel and Bhasin 2008), only two studies (Maimburg and Vaeth 2006; Schendel and Bhasin 2008) found it to be associated with increased risk of autism after other potential risk factors were controlled for. Schendel and Bhasin (2008) suggested a stronger association in females." Flyer22 (talk) 10:19, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

No one has any thoughts on this? About whether or not we should note that a few studies indicate that low birth weight and/or preterm birth are possible causes of autism, but that these causes are not considered "high risk" for autism, and/or that the research on these matters is not strong? Given that medical and news sites commonly list or report premature babies and/or low-birth-weight babies being at a higher risk of autism, as seen here and here, I feel that we should note something in this article about these aspects. Flyer22 (talk) 19:58, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

ack! not "causing", please. Jytdog (talk) 22:05, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

You mean you'd prefer we don't use that word for this material or for similar material? If so, I'm fine with us not using it since I think I know what you mean with regard to "causes." So do you think we should mention anything in this article about these two topics? After all, the Causes section currently includes poorly supported claims/theories (by "poorly supported," I mean the evidence, not the sources). The low birth weight and preterm birth aspects are more supported than a number of those claims/theories. Flyer22 (talk) 13:29, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Education

I would like to go more in depth discussing the education of children with autism and possibly create a new section within this article. I would argue that it is an incredibly important topic as it is critical to the development of a child with autism. There is also very little in depth information that is discussed on Wikipedia that is specific to the effectiveness of the education system for autistic children, the policies that affect their education, as well as how the teaching methods have progressed over time; however, there is a large amount of peer reviewed articles discussing these matters. Jmarrs94 (talk) 01:34, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Jmarrs94, yes, per WP:MEDMOS#Sections, this article could use a good Society and culture section. It could start with a WP:Summary style addition of the Sociological and cultural aspects of autism article. Flyer22 (talk) 02:22, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22, I apologize for my late response. So would you suggest that I add the "Society and Culture" section with a short summary of the Sociological and cultural aspects of autism article, and then a discussion on the education portion I will be doing? Jmarrs94 (talk) 02:41, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Jmarrs94, no need to apologize or to WP:Ping me to this talk page since it's on my WP:Watchlist. But, yes, adding a "Society and culture" section with an appropriate-sized summary of the Sociological and cultural aspects of autism article, which can consist of four or more paragraphs if needed, and having your education material go there in that section, is a good idea. Flyer22 (talk) 02:52, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Here is a link to my proposal for the contributions I plan to make https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I11ffeI830ETBC-0DfhHQ6kUpxFliT07QTNc2bQc_7k/edit?usp=sharing if you would like to read over it. I do not have much on the summary of the sociological and cultural aspects of autism, however, I outline what I plan to add for the information on education. Later tonight, I plan on posting a more detailed description of what I plan to contribute. Jmarrs94 (talk) 00:26, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

In my initial contribution to the autism article, I will create a new section called “Society and Culture.” Within this section, I will first discuss a brief summary of the “sociological and cultural aspects of autism” article and then a short discussion on the importance of education for autistics. Then I will go into a subsection called “Education” and within this I will discuss the disadvantages, current methods, and Policy.

For the sociological and cultural aspects of autism summary, I will use much of the information and resources in the original article to discuss how the inability to properly communicate is detrimental to the lives of autistics, the differences in gender, the autism rights movement, and education. For the differences in gender, I plan to discuss how women face the issues of autism differently than men. In the discussion on autism rights movement, I plan to give a brief overview of the ideas associated with this, such as the attempt to designate autism as a difference instead of a disease . For the intro into education, I will discuss the factors that interfere with an autistic’s ability to receive a proper education and how this can affect their livelihood .

To begin the education subsection, I will discuss the disadvantages of the special education system. I will discuss how many autistic children are less active in classrooms, the lack of inclusion of autistic children, the lack of special education teachers, and the lack of resources to properly address the needs of all the autistic children . When discussing current methods, I will focus first on general strategies such as priming, prompt delivery, picture schedules, peer tutoring, and cooperative learning . After this, I will discuss more formalized methods such as LEAP, TEACHH, and NMS and discuss their effectiveness . I would also like to show how special education for autistics has evolved over the years to allow for more inclusivity . To end the education section, I will discuss policy, both in the US as well as other countries. For the US, I will focus on the No Child Left Behind Act, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, and the Education for All Handicapped Children Act. For other countries, I will first discuss Mexico and the education law passed in 1993 that called for inclusion of those with disabilities . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmarrs94 (talk • contribs) 05:08, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Flyer22 and Jmarrs94, I agree that a society and culture section would generally be a good idea for this article. However, this proposal relates specifically to education. Society and culture are much broader categories, and not specifically about treatment of autism, of which education is one key critical component. I therefore don't think that the education material should be put into a society and cultural section. To the extent that education is critical to the treatment of autism, it should have its own section.DStrassmann (talk) 13:13, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

DStrassmann, I feel that the education material should be part of the Society and culture section since it is an aspect of society and culture; it could even be a subsection of that section if needed. But I await other opinions on this matter. Flyer22 (talk) 00:09, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

DStrassmann asked me to comment here, so I have a few thoughts. I can understand Flyer22's argument for placing education under society and culture, given that is how one might generally place them in a taxonomy. Were this an article about a country I could easily be convinced education falls under society and culture, but I think an article about a particular subject should be organized with respect to that subject. In this case there are distinct connections between Autism and society, culture and education. Education is deeply linked with treatment, not as a subset of our cultural response to the disorder alone. We could break up the work on education and include some elements in society and culture, but the most of the proposed addition would be better suited in an education section. Adam (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:09, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

For the record: Jmarrs94 added education material to the article. Doc James cut the material and moved it to the Autism therapies article, as seen here and here. He left the education material that is already there in the article, and gave it an Education subheading. DStrassmann and Adam (Wiki Ed), I agree that the content that is currently in the Education subsection of the article belongs there as part of the Management section. I wasn't thinking about the management aspect of autism (not even after DStrassmann stated "treatment of autism, of which education is one key critical component") when I suggested that the education material be a part of a Society and culture section. Seeing the material now, however, has definitely made me see what you two mean about the setup. But some of the content, especially the Policies material, that Jmarrs94 added is more of a society and culture matter. Again, that material is now in the Autism therapies article, when it would perhaps be better placed in the Sociological and cultural aspects of autism article. Furthermore, because of the aforementioned education material now being in the Autism therapies article, that article currently has two education sections with subsections; so it definitely needs better organization, especially to reduce redundancy. Flyer22 (talk) 22:55, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes happy to have the policy material move to the main article. My concern with the policy material is that it was so United States centric. It needs to be made global in nature.

Additional issue is that the refs need formating. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:42, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you all for the feedback, it has been very useful. In response, I plan to create the "society and culture" section as discussed above in the autism article. In this I will give a summary of the sociological and cultural aspects of autism article. I plan to also discuss the importance of education not only as a management/therapy technique but also as a central capability that aids in the development and success of any person. Along with this, I will discuss how autism has one of the lowest rates of postsecondary school enrollment and the effects this has on autistics. In regards to policy, I do agree that the original section I had written on that was too US centric, thus, I was planning on adding policies from other countries as well as from international organization such as the UN. I also plan to take my "current methods" subsection and incorporate it into the autism therapies article. I will also format the references in order to be consistent with the rest of the article. Jmarrs94 (talk) 18:56, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

This article is to be an overview. It is already too US centric IMO. I have moved a large portion of the educational discussion to the subpage here

Also per our MOS the ref goes right after the punctuation. No space needed first. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:02, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

References

Scope

This article claims to be about "classic" autism (Kanner-type autism) but its content belies this. Either it should be merged with autism spectrum or the content not strictly referring to "classic" autism needs to go. I am not sure if this is feasible, however, and the distinction between "classic" autism, Asperger's and other autism spectrum disorders has been removed in the DSM-5 (2013), anyway, so maybe a merger makes more sense, although specialised articles on "classic" autism, Asperger's, PDD-NOS, CDD, Rett's etc. could be kept. It is also noteworthy that sub-articles using the term "autism" generally refer to the spectrum, and this is – it appears to me – increasingly the prevailing mode of thought; the difficulty of the distinction may be illustrated by how Temple Grandin's diagnosis has shifted from "classic" autism to "high-functioning" autism and (according to her own website) Asperger's (HFA and Asperger's are sometimes differentiated and sometimes treated as the same). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:13, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Dietary interventions

I added information that reflects the current evidences of the gluten free diet in treating the symptoms of autism, after being discussed here and here, and included in gluten free diet.

Best regards. --BallenaBlanca (talk) 10:27, 8 December 2015 (UTC)