Talk:Uruguay

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translation of the official name

• I am not sure whether the name "República Oriental del Uruguay" would better be translated at "Republic Oriental of the [River] Uruguay" or "Republic East of the [River] Uruguay" rather than "Oriental [Eastern] Republic of Uruguay". Both translations are possible, but "Republic East of the Uruguay" catches the meaning better but maybe a native speaker could verify this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wmeyenberg (talk • contribs) 2016-07-19T04:08:41‎
  • I suppose you could make the argument that the "eastern" refers to being east of the Uruguay River, since that part of the name dates back to the name given to the province within the Viceroyalty of Rio de la Plata, "Eastern Bank of the Uruguay [River]" (Banda Oriental del Uruguay). However, I think the sense of simply "eastern province" (within the United Provinces of Río de La Plata) and later "eastern republic" (as an independent country) makes more sense. In any case, it's not really up to us to determine the best translation; we have to go with what the sources say, and in this case, that's either "Oriental Republic of Uruguay" or "Eastern Republic of Uruguay". Cheers, -- Irn (talk) 15:28, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
  • "Oriental" does seem to be a very unusual English translation. "wiktionary:oriental" lists the English usage of "oriental" to mean "eastern" as obsolete, and the English translation of the Spanish usage of "oriental" as being "eastern" and not "oriental." I would suggest changing the translation to the "Eastern Republic of the Uruguay" (which apparently already has a Wikipedia redirect page), or secondarily as the "Republic East of the Uruguay." The only official Uruguayan pages I could find in English using the full name is the President's website, but the translation provided is unfortunately just an automated one from Google Translate. Nicole Sharp (talk) 22:38, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

poll

@Wmeyenberg: @Irn: @Philmonte101: I crossposted this discussion to "wiktionary:talk:Uruguay#official name" and "wiktionary:Wiktionary:Translation requests#Spanish to English." In the absence of any written citations, I think it would be helpful to create a poll of what people think the English translation should be listed as here on Wikipedia and on Wiktionary. Nicole Sharp (talk) 00:51, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

• Eastern Republic of the Uruguay

  (Support.) Nicole Sharp (talk) 00:51, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

• Eastern Republic of Uruguay

• Oriental Republic of the Uruguay

• Oriental Republic of Uruguay

• Republic East of the Uruguay

• Republic East of Uruguay

• Republic Oriental of the Uruguay

• Republic Oriental of Uruguay

citations

I finally found some citations. Per the Wikipedia page, the USA CIA World Factbook and Britannica.com list the translation as the "Oriental Republic of Uruguay." However, the United Nations lists the translation as the "Eastern Republic of Uruguay." I personally would go with the international usage of the United Nations instead of the (confusingly-translated) USA publications (Britannica has actually been a USA, not British, publication since 1901). However, notably, both omit the definite article in their translations, which I think is also confusing, since Uruguay in the title refers to the river and not land. Nicole Sharp (talk) 01:19, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the effort you've put in to this! However, if you look at the etymology section of the article, I think you'll see that your concerns have already been addressed. Cheers, -- Irn (talk) 15:03, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Perception of crime

I've reverted this again. Now let's discuss. Nowhere does it say that “high crime and lack of security” are problems; you're misrepresenting the article. (And this is not a a reliable source; it's an opinion piece.) The source about the actual poll tells us very little. It says that crime/insecurity is perceived to be a bigger problem than corruption, poverty, etc. This could be read to say that poverty, corruption, etc. aren't problems in Uruguay. In other words, this sort of a study isn't very useful. And finally, none of this belongs in the lead. The lead is supposed to summarize the most important parts of the article, not introduce new information not found elsewhere in the article. -- Irn (talk) 16:36, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

See WP:Lead fixation. This should be included in some subsection. Or, better yet, in the missing article Crime in Uruguay. Cambalachero (talk) 16:36, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Languages

Greetings to all Editors I was raised in Colonia Valdense city. Y am much aware of the languages spoken in Southern Uruguay. Also the Origins of the piligrims. I do my best to cite sources. IS there anything else I must do in order to comply to Wikipedia polcy? I am new, so any help will be appreciated. Taesulkim (talk) 00:41, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia content must cite reliable sources that allow our readers to independently verify the content. "Trust me, I know what I'm writing about" would be considered original research and is not acceptable on Wikipedia. Please do not restore the content unless you can provide a reliable source such as a textbook on Uruguayan linguistics that confirms the content. See WP:Referencing for beginners on how to easily cite your sources. Huon (talk) 11:27, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Huon

University of Iowa // Theses and Dissertations From the Alps to Appalachia: the evolution of the Waldensians http://ir.uiowa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5828&context=etd

Text Book Globalization and Diversity , Geography of a Changing World: Biology, Biology, Edition 3 https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=1SHm_Sd5uboC&rdid=book-1SHm_Sd5uboC&rdot=1&source=gbs_vpt_read&pcampaignid=books_booksearch_viewport

https://books.google.com.uy/books?id=1SHm_Sd5uboC&pg=PT76&lpg=PT76&dq=%22patois%22+%22uruguay%22&source=bl&ots=6zv1ir8_X6&sig=cdWfYvQGtEDSsNMx8fJ_sKZe-8w&hl=es&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22patois%22%20%22uruguay%22&f=false

Although Wikipedia is not official info, read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldensian_Church_and_Cemetery_of_Stone_Prairie

Here you have a page from the Goberment (State Board) in Uruguay http://www.juntacolonia.gub.uy/index.php/56-legislacion/nomenclator/1189-puente-el-tumpi-colonia-valdense

I quote: El puente era llamado “El Tumpí”, que en su original “patois” –herencia europea que trajeron los colonos valdenses- significa “lagunón” o “pozo”, dado que ese tramo del arroyo era propicio, por su profundidad, para aprender a nadar o recrearse. This a Public tendering for companies to restore a Bridge. They mention the name of the Bridge "El Tumpi" and points the original was in "Patois" an European heritage brough by the Waldensian settlers with the meaning "lagoon" or "water well", Since this section of the stream was conducive, because of its depth, to learn to swim or recreate.

Also in the mayor Newspaper in Uruguay (Diario el Pais" http://viajes.elpais.com.uy/2016/07/20/no-se-pierdan-el-piamonte-uruguayo/ It mention the Preaching in the State of Colonia, been initiated in Patois. Taesulkim (talk) 16:49, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Huon Another Book by the University of the Republic (Uruguay) Udelar http://dedicaciontotal.udelar.edu.uy/adjuntos/produccion/742_academicas__academicaarchivo.pdf Etnicidad y Lenguaje Translated Ethnicity and Language By Graciela Barrios, University of the Republic (Uruguay) Facultad de Humanidades y Ciencias de la Educación Departamento de Publicaciones - 2008

I quote: Para los valdenses residentes en Colonia Valdense, por ejemplo, el patois sigue funcionando como LEtn, aunque ya casi no lo utilicen. Si bien actualmente la lengua de comunicación habitual en esta comunidad es el español, los valdenses están convencidos de que el patois es una de las características más específicas del grupo5, la lengua que hablaron y mantuvieron efectivamente sus ancestros a lo largo de los siglos.

Translation: For Waldensians living in Colonia Valdense, for example, patois continues to function as LEtn, although they are almost no longer used. Although currently the usual language of communication in this community is Spanish, the Waldensians are convinced that [patois] is one of the most specific characteristics of the group5, the language spoken and effectively maintained by their ancestors throughout the ages.

I Quote: Los valdenses arribados al Uruguay en la última postguerra, además del patois y el francés tenían nociones de italiano, adquirido a través de la escuela. En otros casos, el repertorio de LMigs puede restringirse a una sola variedad, como ocurre con los italianos que llegaron en el siglo XIX al Uruguay, quienes al contar con escasa o nula escolarización, manejaban originariamente sólo su dialecto regional

Translation: The Waldensians arrived in Uruguay in the last postwar period, in addition to the patois and the French had notions of Italian, acquired through the school. In other cases, the repertoire of LMigs can be restricted to a single variety, as in the case of Italians who arrived in Uruguay in the 19th century, who had little or no schooling and originally only used their regional dialect

I Quote Los primeros colonos Piemontese eran bilingües de patois 12 (su LMat) y francés, lengua de la cultura, muy vinculada a la religión y a la educación, que estaba muy extendida entre ellos.

Translation: The first settlers Piemontese were bilingual of patois 12 (their LMat) and French, language of culture, closely linked to religion and education, which was widespread among them.

I Quote El uso del francés y del patois subsistió durante siglos en el entorno italiano, y por cuatro generaciones en el contexto migratorio uruguayo.

Translation: The use of French and patois continued for centuries in the Italian environment, and for four generations in the Uruguayan migratory context.

Taesulkim (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

The first few sources seem to be the results of a Google search and are not particularly helpful because they don't discuss the subject at hand. From the Alps to Appalachia: the evolution of the Waldensians mentions Uruguay in passing, but does not say anything about languages spoken there. Globalization and Diversity mentions Uruguay and patois on the same page - in unrelated entries. The book mentions that some other language is spoken in Uruguay before changing subjects and discussing patois in a non-Uruguay context. Etnicidad y Lenguaje, on the other hand, is a reliable source that explicitly discusses the use of Patois in Uruguay by the Waldensians. While this does seem a comparatively minor language that should not make up half our coverage of languages in Uruguay (Spanish, Portuguese, English and French are all likely to be far more relevant; see also WP:UNDUE), it is appropriate for a very short note. Huon (talk) 20:33, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Dear Huon Thanks for your review. Remember I am New and I try to put the information the best I can. Please help me to improve the Article if you please. I can be of assitance if you need any translation from Spanish. Thanks in advance. Taesulkim (talk) 00:32, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I've reverted most of your edition because it makes a number of claims I don't see supported by the text, and its length runs into WP:UNDUE issues. The one source we have doesn't say that the patois is a mix of French and Italian, but rather says nothing about the origins of the patois and only mentions French and Italian as other languages spoken. The text doesn't say that the language is dead, but rather that its use is very limited. And the text doesn't mention the Biblioteca Valdense at all. The other stuff about the Waldensians didn't seem appropriate for the section.

I guess, I'm not totally clear on what it is you want added here. That the Waldensians in Colonia Valdense speak a form of patois? That's all I could really salvage from the source, and that's what I left in. -- Irn (talk) 16:37, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

NPOV?

The last two paragraphs of the lead section seem a little too laudatory to me. Is it worth flagging that up or am I overanalysing? Commissaress (talk) 16:53, 14 March 2017 (UTC)