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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Manul (talk | contribs) at 21:05, 19 May 2017 (→‎Responses to arbitrators). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Use this section to request clarification or amendment of a closed Arbitration Committee case or decision.

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Request name Motions  Case Posted
Clarification request: Arbitration motions regarding extended confirmed protection Motion none 15 May 2017
Clarification request: Transcendental Meditation movement none (orig. case) 18 May 2017
Clarification request: Discretionary sanctions (2014) none none 19 May 2017
Motion name Date posted
Historical elections 21 July 2024

Requests for clarification and amendment

Clarification request: Arbitration motions regarding extended confirmed protection

Initiated by BU Rob13 at 03:57, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Case or decision affected
Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard/Archive_11#Arbitration_motions_regarding_extended_confirmed_protection

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:


Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request


Statement by BU Rob13

Way back when extended-confirmed protection (ECP) was first created, the Committee developed a motion about how extendedconfirmed as a user right interacts with discretionary sanctions and other specific remedies. Among this motion was a prohibition on individual administrators removing "extendedconfirmed" either as a discretionary sanction or to avoid an arbitration enforcement procedure. At the time, this prevented 100% of unilateral removals of the "extendedconfirmed" flag, as ECP was only allowed in areas defined by the Committee.

Since then, the community has developed its own protection policy for applying ECP, but no policy is in place about adding or removing the "extendedconfirmed" flag. I had assumed the original motion prevented administrators from unilaterally removing the flag, since even removals unrelated to sanctioned areas would have unintended consequences on an editor's ability to edit those areas. Xaosflux pointed out to me that this isn't necessarily the case. I'd like to clarify this. Did the Committee intend for this motion to prevent administrators from unilaterally removing the extendedconfirmed flag in all cases? If no, are such removals acceptable in the absence of any community policy to the contrary / do they fall under admin discretion? ~ Rob13Talk 03:57, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Newyorkbrad: The original motion by the Committee is linked above as the case/decision affected by this ARCA. The original RfC to allow admins to apply ECP to combat disruption occurred here. ~ Rob13Talk 01:18, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Opabinia regalis: I'll preface this question by saying I'm undecided on this issue, so this is rhetorical, not my viewpoint. Vigilant Admin revokes Disruptive Editor's extendedconfirmed flag because they disruptively edited through ECP (e.g. edit-warring through ECP, etc). Disruptive Editor happens to participate in the Israeli-Palestinean conflict topic area in a constructive manner. Almost all IP conflict pages are under ECP solely because of the ArbCom motion requiring that all editors in that topic area have 500 edits and 30 days on-site. What happens now? Disruptive Editor is functionally topic banned from the IP conflict topic area under the existing ArbCom remedy and its current method of implementation. The only possible method to address this would be to remove ECP from any articles Disruptive Editor wants to edit in the IP conflict topic area and handle enforcement via blocks, but that is inconsistent with the current guidance at WP:ARBPIA3#500/30.

    Basically, I see this as under ArbCom's purview because it either turns an existing ArbCom remedy into a de facto topic ban on certain editors or affects enforcement of the remedy. ~ Rob13Talk 01:18, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • If the Committee doesn't see this as within its scope, I'm perfectly fine with that, but we still need to know what happens in the situation I outlined above. Does an editor whose extendedconfirmed flag was removed for reasons unrelated to arb enforcement become pseudo-topic banned from the IP conflict topic area, for instance, under current ArbCom remedies? If the answer is yes, that's fine, but it needs to be clear. ~ Rob13Talk 05:04, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alright, Opabinia regalis. If that's the answer, I'm fine with that. It probably means WP:ARBPIA3#500/30 can/should be re-written to ban editors without the extendedconfirmed flag from editing in the topic area, since that is simpler and more accurate. Future remedies restricting editing in such a way should also use such language. (And to be clear to other Committee members, I'm not and have never asked the Committee to control extended-confirmed protection itself outside arbitration areas - not sure why some people are commenting about controlling ECP. This is about the flag itself, which affects arb matters no matter why it's removed).
  • @Mkdw: That's conflating the extendedconfirmed flag with extendedconfirmed protection (ECP). They are different. The Committee should absolutely not interfere with community based extendedconfirmed protection. No-one is arguing that. It's more questionable whether the Committee can/should interfere with removing the "extendedconfirmed" flag, which is currently used as the basis of arbitration remedies. I can certainly understand why arbitrators would say the extendedconfirmed flag is outside their jurisdiction - that is one reasonable view. That's very different from saying community-based extendedconfirmed protection is outside their jurisdiction, which is the only reasonable view on that separate issue. ~ Rob13Talk 23:59, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Xaosflux

My understanding is that only alterations of this user permission related to arbitration remedies are under the control of the arbitration committee - and that any other use is up to the community. Even directly related to use against sanctioned articles, administrative removal of this access has occurred, following community discussion, in instances where the prerequisites have been "gamed" (not as a discretionary sanction). My suggestion would be that the community should further discuss the revocation guidelines and process regarding this access group and document the administrator expectations. — xaosflux Talk 00:30, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mz7

I'm inclined to agree with the arbitrators so far and say that the Committee cannot restrict revocations of the extendedconfirmed right outside of arbitration enforcement.

With that being said, I am not sure I like the idea of removing the flag as an enforcement measure for either community policy or arbitration. The extended confirmed flag was not intended to be a "special" user right, such as rollback, for example. If rollback is abused, the natural response is to simply revoke the rollback right. However, I see extended confirmed differently: revoking it as an enforcement measure is beyond the role that the community had originally envisioned for it, which is merely a technical checkbox that ticks for editors that have made 500 edits with 30 days account registration.

If an editor is truly editing disruptively (e.g. violating a topic ban, edit warring), we would use a block to prevent and deter further disruption. Revoking extended confirmed to respond to disruptive editing strikes me as a kind of "partial" or "lesser" block, which, as far as my knowledge goes, is unprecedented. Despite the absence of community policy regarding this, I would strongly advise administrators to wait until the community has discussed whether this kind of enforcement measure is acceptable before unilaterally applying it. I don't see it as part of admin discretion. Mz7 (talk) 04:19, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Beeblebrox

All other user rights that can be granted by a single admin can also be revoked by a single admin. This is as it should be and I believe we are in the realm of unintended consequences here. I believe the committee should act to clarify that its past standing on this issue either now invalid or only applies to arbitration enforcement actions. Again, I don't believe this was the intent but the committee appears to have created policy by fiat, which is not how it works. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:34, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.

Arbitration motions regarding extended confirmed protection: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitration motions regarding extended confirmed protection: Arbitrator views and discussion

  • @BU Rob13: Could you please give us links to the policy pages and other discussions you are referencing? Thanks. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:02, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Newyorkbrad:, these are the motions from immediately after last year's rollout of the extendedconfirmed user group and protection level. (According to the history and Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Motions, they were archived to the talk pages of the affected policies, but the links no longer work because the talk pages themselves have been archived; the protection policy one is here and the user right one is here.) Grnklaagheq!%$@# why do we do this, in the alternate universe where I'm Queen of Wikipedia, all arb business gets its own subpage in arbspace so it's actually searchable and doesn't have linkrot grumble mutter everybody get off my lawn.
    @BU Rob13:, your interpretation is how I originally wanted to do it last year (in fact, I wanted to make it technically irrevocable to remove the temptation), but after discussion the conclusion was that arbcom could only regulate admins' discretion to revoke the user right on matters directly under our scope, i.e. AE/DS matters. If an admin wanted to remove the user right due to disruption on pages that are ECP'd for other reasons, it would be up to the community to decide if that's acceptable. Personally, I think that's an undesirable inconsistency likely to lead to confusion (as this request shows). On the other hand, I feel less strongly about revoking EC now that we've had some experience with the system. On the third hand, I'm not sure that my change of view is actually well-informed or if it's just creeping complacency. The proliferation of user rights, and thus of opportunities for admins to try to "pull rank", doesn't seem to have slowed down any. Opabinia regalis (talk) 00:03, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • BU Rob13 The argument I made last year (which I'm no longer so convinced of) is that ECP would never have come into existence as an option without the 30/500 remedy from the PIA3 case. There was never a community consensus for a new protection level; it was pulled out of someone's ass as an ad-hoc gamergate AE action and worked well enough that it was scaled up the next time a remedy was needed for a topic area beset with persistent, disruptive, and frequently offensive socking. Since the availability of ECP is 100% a consequence of an arbcom decision, that means that a) its general use is arguably still "our problem", and b) the part where arbcom makes policy even though it's not technically supposed to already happened when the PIA3 remedy was passed.
      As for your specific case, I think it's the same as any other user right - if you're disruptive using it for one thing, and you can't/won't stop the disruptive behavior, then you risk losing the ability to contribute even in other areas where you're not disruptive. We don't talk about a "topic ban on templates" if someone edits templates productively but loses their TE right because they edit-warred to put pictures of squabbling children in the ANI editnotice. Just kidding, actually I'd give that person a barnstar ;) Of course I hope that we see a great deal of caution from admins looking to remove the right for any reason other than gross abuse (500 sandbox edits repeatedly posting "I like pie" and so on), because the ability to unilaterally tell another editor "you're not good enough to sit at the big-boy table" has a high potential for toxic effects. Opabinia regalis (talk) 06:51, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think it's appropriate for the Arbitration Committee to dictate how ECP is applied (or removed) outside of arbitration remedies. As I see it, we only have the authority to impose the limits we imposed in that remedy when they are a part of a set of restrictions created for a particular arbitration case. Applied more broadly, this would be a case of the Arbitration Committee dictating policy. GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:36, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think we can provide clarification on ECP in regards to ArbCom remedies and sanction areas only, and I'm inclined to agree with Xaosflux that the community must decide how they'd like to handle it in all other situations. Mkdw talk 03:28, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@BU Rob13: The main question in your initial statement was:

Did the Committee intend for this motion to prevent administrators from unilaterally removing the extendedconfirmed flag in all cases?

I don't think anyone thought you were asking the Committee to control areas outside arbitration areas, but it's a point of clarity needed to answer your question which asks about "all cases" (including outside arbitration areas). We're saying it's not and why (being it's outside our authority on the matter). Mkdw talk 21:29, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@BU Rob13: I've been talking broadly about ECP meaning to include XCON, which I could have been more specific or accurate about, because my point is that anything outside an ArbCom area relating to ECP including how the user right is managed should be in the hands of the community. It's for the community to decide, in those cases, whether it's managed at the discretion of administrators or not, and not something ArbCom can answer or motion into existence. The best I think this ARCA could do is highlight that gap and the community could seek to put something in place. That's why I've put an emphasis about jurisdiction. If that makes sense. Mkdw talk 03:20, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree that in regard to ECP we do not have the authority to control it outside Arbitration remedies that include it. In all other cases it is up to the community. Doug Weller talk 18:45, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • @BU Rob13:, I don't interpret the motion as preventing " 100% of unilateral removals of the "extendedconfirmed" flag". If we meant it that way we would have worded it that way. We gave. as you point out, two instances of when it couldn't be removed, "as a discretionary sanction" and "as a means of bypassing arbitration enforcement procedures". I don't read that as forbidding an Administrator from removing ECP from someone whose only edits are sandbox edits. At least for me, one of the reasons for 500 edits is to aid new users in understanding our policies and procedures and to interact with other editors, and 500 sandbox or other trivial edits don't do that. Doug Weller talk 14:01, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification request: Transcendental Meditation movement

Initiated by Manul at 17:47, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Case or decision affected
Transcendental Meditation movement arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Statement by Manul

For the sake of focus and clarity, evidence and details have been deferred to the next section.

In the final decision it says,

Editors who have or may be perceived as having a conflict of interest should review and comply with the applicable policies.

In my understanding, the decision is rightly addressing one of the underlying causes for the contentiousness surrounding TM articles: the presence of editors with a conflict of interest. The above text was meant to foster a better editing environment and, in the long run, improve the encyclopedia.

The intervening years since the arbitration case have not gone well in this regard. Two COI editors who were once sanctioned with a combined 1RR restriction went on to collaborate on the article of a prominent TM leader, bringing it to GA status. Upon reassessment, however, the article was found to be grossly imbalanced, with one GA reviewer calling it "a skillfully written piece of propaganda".

One of these editors has ignored requests to follow WP:COI, and the other has rebuffed such requests. The latter editor received two further sanctions, each being a topic ban from TM for tendentious editing. This editor continues to show an inability to recognize when Wikipedia is being used to host TM propaganda. The editor also lashes out harshly at those who bring up the conflict of interest. Administrator MastCell said to this editor: you and other affiliated accounts flout both site guidelines and common-sense prohibitions on COI editing, and then question not only the arguments but the very humanity of anyone who tries to hold you accountable.

In the above quote from the final decision, if the committee affirms that the meaning of "should" is the non-optional sense of "should", then such problems may largely disappear. It seems to me that this was the intent. There is much work ahead in bringing some balance to TM articles, and having this clarification will help to improve the encyclopedia.

Details

  • Littleolive oil (talk · contribs) (hereafter referred to as Olive) has a conflict of interest.[4] That deleted link points to Olive's own statement and does not give any identifying information. I have assured Olive that I respect her privacy and that following WP:COI is compatible with maintaining her privacy.[5] The link was supplied by then-arbitrator NuclearWarfare inside this AE request.
  • MastCell says that Olive has a conflict of interest. Please read his comment on the matter[6] which includes the above quote from him.
  • After bringing up the Olive's COI I have been on the receiving end of her attacks. It does feel like, in MastCell's words, that she questions my very humanity. For details please see my message to her.[7] Note that, even after my plea for decency, she continued assuming bad faith and continued down the road of conspiracy, still not looking at the AE request and still imagining that I obtained the deleted link by some nefarious means.[8]
  • Olive has been sanctioned three times in the area of Transcendental Meditation.[9][10][11] The first was an editing restriction that she shared with Timid Guy. The second and third were topic bans for tendentious editing.
  • For more context, please see my message to her[12] in which I thoroughly explained the issue, demonstrating that she can't recognize, or seems indifferent to, TM propaganda in Wikipedia articles. This also covers the above-mentioned case of a GA reviewer calling the TM article "a skillfully written piece of propaganda".
  • Despite having written what she did on her user page[13] (in the AE case NuclearWarfare mentioned how non-admins may obtain the text; I will not repeat it here), Olive says, perplexingly, that she does not have a conflict of interest. And by using phrases such as "despite arbitrations"[14] and "the arbs knew"[15] she appears to intimate that the committee concluded that she does not have a conflict of interest. That is, it would appear her argument is that she doesn't have a conflict of interest because the arbitration decision doesn't contain a statement to the effect of "Olive has a conflict of interest". On the other hand, I read the COI section of the final decision as referring to Olive and others.
  • In another twist, SlimVirgin has accused NuclearWarfare of outing Olive in 2013 by supplying the deleted link.[16] Outing is perhaps the most serious charge one editor can make against another. I believe it is wrong for SlimVirgin to make this accusation toward NuclearWarfare and, by extension, toward me. Although she did clarify that she was not fingering me directly,[17] the implication remains.

Questions for the committee

  • Does this text in the final decision

    Editors who have or may be perceived as having a conflict of interest should review and comply with the applicable policies.

    mean that following WP:COI is merely recommended for editors with a conflict of interest -- that they are ultimately free to ignore WP:COI? Or is this a non-optional "should"?
  • Given Olive's own statement[18] in conjunction with her previous sanctions and behavior discussed above, does Olive have a conflict of interest? And regardless, is she perceived (per the wording of the decision) as having a conflict of interest?
  • Did NuclearWarfare, an arbitrator at the time, out Olive in September 2013 by offering a link that (1) is not publicly visible (deleted); (2) does not contain any identifying information; and (3) was written by Olive herself on her user page?

Preemptive answers to expected questions for me

  • Q: Aren't you harassing Olive by trying to out her?
A: Absolutely not. I have made clear to Olive that I respect her privacy and that following WP:COI does not require revealing any personal information at all.[19] I have not asked Olive for any personal information, and such information is not the least bit necessary.
  • Q: Why haven't you taken this to Arbitration Enforcement?
  • A: Indeed there is ample evidence (including recent hounding[20] -- she never edited that page before) for an AE case. However the last AE case went very poorly, with the submitter being railroaded on the false claim that he was trying to out Olive. He ultimately left Wikipedia largely as a result of this, it seems. Any future AE case would greatly depend upon the committee's answers to the above questions, so this ARCA needs to come first. Otherwise I would expect the pattern of the last case to be repeated.
  • Q: Isn't this ARCA just a ploy to impose your own POV on TM articles?
A: My POV, if you can call it that, is merely that policies and guidelines should be followed. The current state of TM articles is quite unfortunate. When I look at a random TM article problems jump out immediately. See for instance [21]. To someone familiar with the topic, it is hard to miss that the Transcendental Meditation technique article is scrubbed of "embarrassing" aspects such as claims that advanced practitioners can levitate or turn invisible.
  • Q: So why don't you just fix the TM articles, then?
  • A: Indeed I have delved into editing TM articles, and I was stunned at the level of disruption I encountered there. I would like editing in this area to approach something resembling normalcy, and I believe this ARCA is a step in that direction.

Postscript

As I have done in the past, I would like to bring special attention to these words at the top of WP:COI: That someone has a conflict of interest is a description of a situation, not a judgment about that person's opinions or integrity. Manul ~ talk 17:47, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Responses to arbitrators

  • @Opabinia regalis: The two links at "After bringing up the Olive's COI I have been on the receiving end of her attacks..." are from February 2017. The context was the John Hagelin article, the article that the GA reviewer called "a skillfully written piece of propaganda" in 2013. But I could have cited any number of my interactions at TM articles since I joined, and in any case I don't see how this is relevant to the questions I asked to the committee. This isn't an AE case; I'm not seeking sanctions against Olive or anyone else. I'm seeking clarification of the arbitration decision for the future of TM articles generally, which, as I mentioned, are in an unfortunate state. As troubling as the stalking at WP:PAG is, that is not the direct concern here. (The context for WP:PAG is that Olive and SlimVirgin wish to disregard WP:FRINGE at the Hagelin article -- see the current Talk:John Hagelin -- and oh look, SlimVirgin joined in at WT:PAG to continue the push.) Manul ~ talk 01:15, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Doug Weller: An arbitration case is the last thing I had in mind. This a request for clarification, not a request for arbitration. I expected this to be a simple process in which arbitrators would consider the questions in the "Questions for the committee" section. I provided background because I thought it would be helpful; sorry if I gave too much of it. I didn't expect anyone to rehash 2013; the information from 2013 is there because it bears on the questions posed to the committee. Manul ~ talk 21:04, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Littleolive oil

  • I watch-list policies and guideline pages and commented on this one despite Manul who has been adversarial, not because he was there. Manul had made a unilateral edit which changed the substance of the guidelines paragraph so that "guidelines" became rigid and resembled policy. My talk page comment here. This concerned me. Such a change should have more community input.(Littleolive oil (talk) 16:54, 19 May 2017 (UTC))[reply]
      • I have been going back and forth here wondering if I should just let false information here stand. Taking that route has not worked out well for me in the past. I can't expect Arbs to take the huge amount of time to dig around in the archives to find the information, although I did in the past. I realize now it was unfair of me to expect them to spend that kind of time on my case. Then, today, in looking more closely at Manul's comments I see that he has left out critical aspects of "the story" including my responses to him as well as false information. I will be adding that information in the next days. Manul has been pursuing me on the COI issue and perhaps its time to record that. Thank you for patience in this. (Littleolive oil (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2017 (UTC))[reply]

Statement by TimidGuy

Statement by MastCell

Statement by SlimVirgin

Statement by NuclearWarfare

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.

Transcendental Meditation movement: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Transcendental Meditation movement: Arbitrator views and discussion

  • @Manul: This is a very thorough discussion of the history, but on a quick look, many of your diffs and links refer to events from 2013. The only recent material I see is a short discussion from February and one revert at WP:PAG yesterday, which I gather is what prompted this request, but I don't see the connection between participating in a discussion about the text of a policy page and all this old stuff. Could you please briefly (very briefly!) summarize what the current issue is, with recent diffs? Thanks! Opabinia regalis (talk) 23:26, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would encourage anyone who feels affected by this request to make a statement if they can. We appreciate any efforts to keep it concise and to the point but I feel it's important to hear from everyone if possible. Mkdw talk 18:03, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd also like to hear from everyone who feels affected, but only about current issues. I can't see any reason to rehash material from 2013. Sure, it might be background, but it's not going to help us decide whether or not to take a case. We'll make that decision primarily on whether a case is required to solve current problems. Doug Weller talk 18:07, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification request: Discretionary sanctions (2014)

Initiated by NeilN at 05:30, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Case or decision affected
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Motions#2014

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:


Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request


Statement by NeilN

WP:ACDS has instructions for admins placing editing restrictions. To wit, "Any uninvolved administrator may impose on any page or set of pages relating to the area of conflict semi-protection, full protection, move protection, revert restrictions, and prohibitions on the addition or removal of certain content (except when consensus for the edit exists)." It has no instructions for admins wishing to modify restrictions placed by other admins. Being the cockeyed optimist that I am, I have to believe that not all restrictions will be needed in the future, especially ones custom tailored to address a current controversy. I'd like Arbcom to clarify the process of getting restrictions removed. I suggest copying the process laid out for modifying sanctions. Briefly, fresh disruption can be met with new restrictions placed by any admin. Restrictions may be lifted only with the agreement of the admin who placed the restrictions. If they are unavailable or disagreement occurs then a request for review may be made at WP:AN or WP:ARCA. Ideally I'd like the lifting-restrictions admin to be allowed to use their judgement if the original admin is unavailable but I realize this could create drama.

Statement by EdJohnston

Most page restrictions are applied as discretionary sanctions. In my view they should be appealable at WP:Arbitration enforcement like any other sanction. Making such appeals go to WP:ARCA risks using up the time of the committee unnecessarily. Someone who wants an existing restriction lifted might start with {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}} or a reasonable equivalent. Appeals should be granted or denied using the same venue and consensus rules as for personal sanctions, as laid out at WP:AC/DS#Appeals and modifications. The page at WP:AC/DS does not yet have any wording for how to appeal a page restriction. (These restrictions are sometimes referred to in the WP:DSLOG as 'Page-level sanctions'; you can search the log for that term). It looks like there could be a new item for page-level sanctions added below 'Appeals by sanctioned editors.' If the committee agrees to such a change, it would probably need a motion. EdJohnston (talk) 18:28, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Maile66

Apparently, my applying ECP to Jordan in response to an ECP protection request, which I applied in accordance with instructions I had previously requested on how ECP should be applied, has triggered this discussion. Within a matter of hours, that was questioned on my talk page, and that discussion is currently ongoing at RFPP. I have always been hesitant to apply ECP, because it always seemed too vague to me how it is applied. One of the hottest issues in the world that will outlive all of us, and it has been left to admin discretion on whether or not to apply protection, with no clear guidelines on what "broadly interpreted" means in regards to whether or not the article is part of the Arab-Israeli conflict. That conflict, and who and what is related to it, really is subjective and dependent upon where one lives and whether or not one has a personal religion in the mix.

As for the applying admin to also change or lift what they applied, I'm uneasy about that regardless of the subject matter. In this particular case, I think it really sets a bad precedence for the applying admin to do a reversal within hours, and opens the flood gates to "hey, you did it for the last person...". There's always a chance an admin will be approached to lift a restriction they applied, and that often depends on how strongly and diligently another editor is in addressing the admin to lift the sanctions. For the sake of being evenly balanced, especially on the ECP issue, I believe any sanctions lifted should come from an uninvolved admin.

Arb needs to give us some clearer guidelines, please. — Maile (talk) 19:35, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I see the above post by NeilN clarifies that my edit on Jordan did not trigger this discussion. However, I think the Jordan protection is a good example of why we need clarification. The protection request that first made me ask for guidance on this issue was Celebrations of the 50th anniversary of the Liberation of Jerusalem, which had just been created 3 days before the RFPP, and there had been no disruptive edits on it. — Maile (talk) 20:37, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.

Discretionary sanctions (2014): Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Discretionary sanctions (2014): Arbitrator views and discussion

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