Talk:Patriarchy

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NPOV tag

Aristotele1982 added a NPOV tag with the following text:

The neutrality of this article is debatable. The Section "Biological Versus Social Theories" is highly biased in favour of social and in the first part displays only one source in support of biological theories which is in turn not supporting the standpoint of biological theories (Lewontin). Furthermore, the article defends that the Bateman's principle has been superseeded by "attachment fertility theory" which is not only a false statement on its own (inasmuch Bateman studies have not been superseeded at all, but criticized in some parts) but it belittles the debate among biologists. The theory of attachment fertility (which is still a very young theory and higly disputed, see Miller et Fishkin 1997) is mostly sociologically driven with very little support from biology and biologists. The entire section needs revision. For a general outlook on the complexity of the issue with the use of Bateman's principle, I would suggest taking into account the article by MARK E. HAUBER and EILEEN A. LACEY: "Bateman’s Principle in Cooperatively Breeding Vertebrates: The Effects of Non-breeding. Alloparents on Variability in Female and Male Reproductive Success.

I am moving the text here where it belongs. Dammitkevin (talk) 16:41, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

A recent Norwegian documentary Hjernevask has shown that in countries like Norway which has the greatest gender equity in the world. Where women can choose to do what they want, then females choose traditional gender roles. This is termed the "gender equity paradox" and the subject of the documentary. It nullifies much of the socilogical findings. The documentary suggests that the sociological studies were political in nature not scientific.

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz#Gender_equality which again demonstrates that given the choice females revert to traditional gender roles in spite of them being born in a strong feminist gender - equity setting.

'"The documentary 'Full Circle' summarizes the change in the women's view of equality on the kibbutz. The original Utopian goal of the founders was complete gender equality. Children lived in the children's houses. Freed from domestic duties, women participated in the industrial, agricultural and economic sectors alongside men. However, in the 1960s, while the rest of the Western world demanded equality of the sexes and embraced feminism, the second generation of kibbutz born women began to return to more traditional gender roles. They rejected the ideal achieved by their grandparents and returned to domestic duties such as cooking, cleaning and taking care of children. Today, most women do not participate in the economic and industrial sectors of the kibbutz. They even embraced traditional marriage.'

Biology trumps social engineering every time. But a price will be paid by those duped by social engineers. 49.207.53.88 (talk) 09:31, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Your logic is significantly flawed, but arguing you on it would be futile. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:42, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

If there is only an issue with one section (and a valid issue that is actually supported by the WP:Neutral policy), the tag should be placed in the section, not at the top of the article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:38, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

• to make a valid claim of POV you have to make an argument based on what NPOV actually says. You also placed the sourcing tag but have said nothing about what is unsourced in the article. I have removed both tags. Please try talking before tagging. thx Jytdog (talk) 05:39, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for removing the tag. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 15:11, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

A contradiction in the definition

"In sociology, patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property. In the domain of the family, fathers or father-figures hold authority over women and children."

vs.

"most contemporary societies are, in practice, patriarchal."

Women have more property than men in many western societies. Women make the majority in all democracies. Women have more privileges than men in social life (women are or are becoming the more educated population, they have better social networks, lead safer lives, are happier etc). In familes women, not fathers or father figures hold more power than men according to surveys.

My suggestion is to make the definition and article reflect reality (though I know it won't happen).