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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 126.161.133.77 (talk) at 18:55, 8 June 2018 (→‎fatalities/survivor list and non-English sources: Dutch and Hungarian sources are OK). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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What are Israel's comments on this? A2Kafir 16:09, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

I would clean this article up (add an infobox, etc.), but there are no sources so cleaning up an unsourced article is putting the cart before the horse. Anynobody 08:12, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Crashed?

Crashed my arse, it was either bombed or shot down, there is no amibguity to that, however there is ambiiguity as to whether it was an Israeli act, which it probably was.86.138.254.99 (talk) 18:53, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We need sources to say stuff like that in the article. (And Israel gets blamed for everything, so I get suspicious of those claims.) A2Kafir (talk) 23:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The british RAF long-range radar at Cyprus saw an F-4 Phantom jet shoot down Malév 240. Only the zionists had the Phantom in the region at that time. Weirdly most of the people killed aboard the Tu-154 were scandinavian business travelers, because Malév was the last airline to still run to Beirut at the time. The jews also shot down a large czech Il-62 quad-jet airliner around that time. 91.83.15.117 (talk) 20:14, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
91.83: There is no government called "the Jews" - You can say Israel shot down X (if you have reliable sources that say so) - But "the Jews" did not shoot down anything because there is no such government. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:43, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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fatalities/survivor list and non-English sources

Attempting to share material here on talkpage, to be tabled: of the passengers,

  • Diplomats: UN Observer force, Captain Heeiki Paavola;

Posted to Jordan from Katajanokka, Mauri Krohn

  • Angolan National
  • Dutch National
  • Hungarian National, en route to Baghdad trade fair, working for company called Irodageptechnika V, married with two kids, name: Glausius Gabor
  • French Nationals, four French Sisters in service with Holy Family convent of Beirut, names: Adeline Soucan; Gabriele Giustiniani; Jean Andre Hitier; Marcelien Delaverne
  • UK Nationals, Judith Lehmann (relative of Ruth Maidani);
  • New Zealand National, Ruth Maidani;
  • Saudi Arabia Nationals
  • Egyptian Nationals

of the crewmembers, 4 women, 6 men (names available from hirTV or other Hungarian media). the above was reported on hirTV television broadcast. On Saturday the 20th of December, 2008, Dutch television broadcaster Nova carried their piece, with some excerpts from the Nemzeti Kulturalis Alaprogram film.


Cyprus-based signals intelligence anonymized sources of Her Britannic Majesty`s RAF, identifier 90280 or RAF Troodos, detected the aircrafts involved in the incident, confirming it had been shot down by two direct hits of heat-seeking missiles from a two-mile intercept range, impacting the tail of the aircraft(as broadcasted on Dutch television in December 2008).

A Statement or declaration attributed to former RAF Navigator Tom Morcross of his participation in the RAF unit dispatched to the scene of the wreckage states that the wreckage was widely dispersed over a wide area due to "explosion".

This assessment has been confirmed by the former Foreign Minister of Finland, Erkki Tuomioja.

Firstly, thank you for discussing rather than constantly attempting to insert the information. Now to the crux of the matter - where is your source, or better still where are your multiple sources to confirm all of this? It's not enough to say "This assessment has been confirmed by the former Foreign Minister of Finland, Erkki Tuomioja" but where did he say this, and to who did he say this? we need multiple reliable sources to corroborate what you are saying. Your embedded video is not really a good enough source in that it is non-english and so cannot be verified. I know that may sound a little unfair to the non-english speaking world, but sources need to be verifiable and this one currently cannot. Chaheel Riens (talk) 17:45, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your speedy assistance in satisfying your objections. Perhaps a wikipedian with working knowledge of Hungarian or Dutch (possibly of an open social mind) may help to you with that. I`m drained. Godspeed126.161.148.209 (talk) 18:05, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]


No improvements have been offered by wikipedians since `Revision as of 19:35, 6 June 2018` despite the fact that it had references sourced. How can such hasty and uninformed "contributions" be tolerated? The point of wikipedia is to INCREASE availability of good-quality info, not delete it; what have "we" come to? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.133.77 (talk)

Victim named as Gabor

Are there any Hungarian sources showing Gabor was related to Gábor K killed in a Siemens electric centrifugal propeller electric aeroplane on the 31st of May 2018? Certainly of note if available.126.161.148.209 (talk) 00:15, 7 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We dont normally list the names of victims unless otherwise noteworthy (that is they have or likely to have a wikipedia article) so it would not be relevant to this article. 15:39, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

"We" did list the relatives as noteable of two crashes (the guy who died in a crash had lost his relatives in another crash, American Airlines flight 1) of AA flights, so what you say doesn`t seem right. Dare one reiterate that there seems to be undue weight being lent (by several of "you" editors) to censorship rather than being lent to scholarship . The article has recently been substantially improved, followed by certain editors (for whatever their intentions)having sought to undo the improvements. Certainly, as certain as could possibly be, IF the flight-crash Hungarian victims named Gabor are relatives, that couldn`t possibly be omitted, wouldn`t you say it would not be relevent? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.151.18 (talk) 07:47, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Having relatives in different accidents is not noteworthy and as far as I can see American Airlines Flight 1 only lists victims with an article. Nobody censors anything but what we do is make sure anything is reliably sourced and has due weight to be included. If you want to add something and it has been challenged then just bring it to this talk page so it can be discussed. But certainly if the Gabors are related it is not noteworthy to this accident as Gabor wouldnt get a mention. MilborneOne (talk) 12:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally, the conspiracy theorists who say that the Israelis were targeting weaponised mechanical parts (gyroscopes or levers like clockwork) before they could be delivered to terrorists are ascribing that the Israelis LIKELY HAD TARGETED Mr. Gabor`s consignment, so whatever tailspin "You" want to put on it, Gabor is surely noteable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.151.18 (talk) 08:02, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have now idea what you are talking about or who Gabor is, but if he is noteworthy enough for a stand-alone article then he can get a mention. MilborneOne (talk) 12:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Crashed ?

It is highly suspicious that there is no accountability for this incident despite an Ambassador and a Foreign Minister having been interviewed for television. Additionally, a response team was sent out by the Royal Air Force. It is not so much about blame as it is about transparency and accountability, and the omission of material despite its availability, whether the shooters or their informers (or both) had been entrapped or not does not detract from the facts. It was downed by explosion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.148.209 (talk) 17:57, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Have you a reliable source for all these alternate theories ? (missile, bomb or something else) An official statement from an Ambassador or a Foreign Minister avaialble. Its unlikely that the Royal Air Force would have said anything in public but do you have a British government press release or similar ? MilborneOne (talk) 17:24, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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