Talk:Forced circumcision

Shafer cite re death penalty for circumcising slaves

Legislation under Constantine, the first Christian emperor, freed any slave who was subjected to circumcision; in the year 339, circumcising a slave became punishable by death.

The reference listed for this is:

• "Peter Schäfer, The History of the Jews, p. 185."

I am looking to improve this reference with a URL and quote and year of publication.

Over at Constantine_the_Great#Religious_policy:

They were forbidden to own Christian slaves or to circumcise their slaves.

This is related, but while it mentions forbidding circumcision of slaves it does not refer to a death penalty. Two sources are listed there:

• Stemberger, Gunter. Jews and Christians in the Holy Land, A&C Black, 1999, po. 37–38, ISBN 0-567-23050-3
• Schäfer, Peter. The History of the Jews in the Greco-Roman World, Routledge, 2003, p. 182, ISBN 1-134-40317-8

Regarding the second, page 182 sounds pretty close to 185 and there is a resemblance in the title. Is it possible that "in the Greco-Roman World" got left out by accident? After that 2003 book it appears Shafer also published a 2013 book called "The History of the Jews in Antiquity" too, so that could be another candidate. I'll check both to see.

There is no mention of circumcision at either history of the Jews in the Roman Empire or Constantine the Great and Judaism presently so once we sort out the facts we should consider making coordinate mention at both locations. 70.51.193.44 (talk) 01:12, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Original research / POV

"The most common form of forced circumcision is performed widely in Israel and the United States, where it is known as neonatal circumcision. This form of circumcision involves the circumcision of a male newborn. Although their parents may consent to it, the males themselves do not, therefore making it forced. "

Really? This sounds like pure WP:OR In ictu oculi (talk) 15:42, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 13 October 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved per WP:SNOW. (non-admin closure) 142.160.89.97 (talk) 03:41, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

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Forced circumcision → Male Genital Mutilation – :Just as female genital mutilation is the phrasing used for involuntary modification of a female's genitals, regardless of historical or religious context(Islam), so too should be the case for involuntary male genital mutilation, regardless of historical context or religious affiliation(Judaism).Ethanpet113 (talk) 12:08, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose circumcision is not mutilation. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:40, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, I disagree with In ictu oculi's opinion in his oppose above, but we can't change the title to mutilation until reliable sources do. Iffy★Chat -- 21:08, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per COMMONNAME as well. Also WP:POVTITLE Genital cutting is a global phenomenon and there are various terms to describe it. While i consider non-consensual genital cutting, including routine male infant circumcision, abhorrent, nothing done to the penis compares to infibulation and it should be a major POV violation to try to get wikipedia to suggest so in its article title. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:41, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Editors have also tried to move the Circumcision article to "Male genital mutilation." You might want to check the archives there. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:32, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONSISTENCY with the main topic. I'm sympathetic to the cause, but unfortunately the opponents of male circumcision haven't been as good at changing the language as the opponents of female genital mutilation. Try again in a decade or two. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:53, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose There are several issues here. Firstly, "Male Genital Mutilation" is not the common name for this topic. Secondly, this seems part of a broader push (often linked to the "men's rights movement" and the anti-feminist movement) to liken female genital mutilation to circumcision. While from a personal perspective I view routine cutting of the penis without consent as morally wrong our job is to assume a neutral point of view. Likening the two also serves to effectively downplay the horrific nature of female genital mutilation. AusLondonder (talk) 06:11, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article lacks subheadings and discussions of forced circumcision practice in both the USA and Israel, both which should be included.

There is a heading for "History and contemporary forced circumcision", under which there is currently a breadth and depth of discussion for the practice across fourteen different historical or modern nations. All with their own subheading.

Yet outside of brief mention of the United States and Israel in the first paragraph of the article, there is no further discussion of forced circumcission practice in either nation.

The mention each of these nations in the firts paragraph is in the following statement: "The most common form of forced circumcision is performed widely in Israel and the United States, where it is known as neonatal circumcision".

A statement of fact that warrants the inclusion of individual subheadings as well as a discussion of the practice as it exists in both the United States and Israel. Toward the creation of a well written, comprehensive, and politically balanced article.