Talk:Genocide of indigenous peoples

Template:Findsourcesnotice This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 August 2019 and 15 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Joshjensen308 (article contribs).

Genocides in Western Asia

Should we add genocides that occurred in Western Asia (i.e. Armenian, Assyrian, Greek, etc) genocides?2605:6000:1526:450B:5515:50D1:5E9F:1DF9 (talk) 03:29, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

They already have their own articles and are part of the larger "genocide" series. I don't think it is sufficiently related to this particular niche.DivineReality (talk) 22:51, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Bias in the article

There is clearly a favorable bias if the perpetrators of the genocides are Anglo-saxon in origin, lets look at two descriptions, one for the Spanish empire, the other for the British empire:

About Spanish colonization:

"It is estimated that during the initial Spanish conquest of the Americas up to eight million indigenous people died, primarily through the spread of Afro-Eurasian diseases.,[30] in a series of events that have been described as the first large-scale act of genocide of the modern era.[31]"

About British colonization:

"In places like the United States, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, settler colonialism was carried out by the British.Foreign land viewed as attractive for settlement was declared as terra nullius or "nobody's land"...Widespread population decline occurred following conquest principally from introduction of infectious disease."

The same fact is called the first large-scale act of genocide for ones and just a cause of "widespread population decline" for others. This article needs clearly a much more neutral approach, with facts and evidence treated equal independently of the perpetrator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.188.142.2 (talk) 14:13, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Our content is determined by what the reliable sources that we summarise say. Are there reliable sources that have describe the settler colonialism as genocide? I don't know the answer to that question; if there are, we could consider adding something about it. GirthSummit _(blether) 14:21, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Absolutely there are. From historian David Stannard's American Holocaust in 1992, already cited on the page, to historian Jeff Ostler's Surviving Genocide just last year. I agree with the original commenter that this needs to be changed. Settler Colonialism that allowed for the U.S. to form was based on the genocide of Indigenous Peoples, and there are also many scholarly articles that argue, convincingly in my opinion, that the disease settlers brought with them was a tool of that genocide. The conditions that Native peoples were forced to live in through forced removal, relocation, death marches (there were multiple trails of tears), away from their medicines, potable water, food sources, etc. allowed disease to spread much more rapidly and easily. Essentially, the scholarship is there to show that settler colonialism in North America, in many, many ways, was and is genocidal.--Hobomok (talk) 18:52, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Aren't all genocide victims indigenous?

I think most genocides that have occurred have always involved people who were indigenous to the land. But that is not how the term is used in scholarly works. The chapter on "Genocides of Indigenous People's"in this book only categorizes the genocides in Americas and Australia as such. I would propose defining this article more narrowly so it doesn't become a catch all.VR _talk 14:48, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Sami Genocide

Can someone add a section to this article on the genocide of the Sami people in Norway, Denmark, and Sweden? DivineReality (talk) 22:52, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Edit warring and improper accusations

Hobomok, Php2000 and the IP editor/s, can I ask that you use this talk page to discuss your issues here? IP editor, I cannot see an edit summary where Hobomok says you reverted them at all, let alone where they are referring to a revert by you of Php2000. To allege socking is a serious accusation, and can be considered a WP:PA if not accompanied by evidence; even with evidence, it should be made at WP:SPI, not in an edit summary at an article. Please either retract it, or provide evidence at the proper venue. GirthSummit _(blether) 16:06, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

GirthSummit I think you are mistaking me with another editor. I have not been involved in this article. Php2000 (talk) 16:54, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Php2000, erm - the article's history, and your contributions history, indicate that you edited this article yesterday. GirthSummit _(blether) 18:18, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

GirthSummit Aha I see I have one edit on this article I barely recall making. No need to drag me into this, though! --Php2000 (talk) 18:39, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Php2000, you made two edits, removing about 8,000 bytes of content, yesterday. You dragged yourself into this, if you are going to make significant changes you should be willing to discuss them. GirthSummit _(blether) 19:11, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

GirthSummit I did not respond when my edits were reverted hence I am not involved in an edit conflict on this article.Php2000 (talk) 19:41, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Php2000, you reverted someone else's edits, so you were involved in a dispute. If you choose to disengage at this point, that's absolutely fine. Best GirthSummit _(blether) 19:59, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

GirthSummit I'm not going to say anything about these other editors--I do not know their motivations nor do I know them. I edit from this account and this account only, and accusations of socking are ridiculous.

Here is what I've done, past and present, on the issues of settler-colonialism and Indigenous genocide on Wikipedia as a whole and this page specifically (although ip user claims I have not made any edits to this page previously, which is false), which are reflected in my edit history and this page's edit history:

1. Edited Yazoo lands r/t Indigenous genocide on 12 February 2019
2. Edited Last of the Mohicans to include scholarly studies r/t Indigenous genocide and settler colonialism on 27 July 2019 (I've edited this page since then with context and sources r/t settler colonialism and Indigenous genocide, although the ip user first began editing the page recently)
3. Edited Anthropocene r/t Indigenous genocide and colonization of the Americas multiple times, but most recently on 16 September 2020
4. Edited this page first on 24 August 2020 r/t the section on "'Extermination' of the Pequot." I've also been active on this talk page previously in the "Bias in the article" section, where you'll see that I made suggestions about large additions instead of just deciding to make large additions to the article
   

Re my most recent edits that the ip user is referencing to accuse socking, here are the changes I made:

1. 03:52, 26 October 2020: Separate ip address eliminated a previously written section in Spanish colonization subheading regarding relation between Indigenous genocide and natural resource extraction. This was an unnecessary deletion of long-standing material, and Indigenous genocide in South America goes hand-in-hand with extractivism, per the source that was cited. It was an unnecessary removal that I reverted.
2. 03:53, 26 October 2020: Removed unnecessary qualifier: ip address making accusations added "widely" to "Genocide debate section." This is an unnecessary adverb, so I removed it.
3. 03:57, 26 October 2020: Removed section sourced from the news source "Byline Times." This is not WP:RS.
4. 04:02, 26 October 2020: This edit was a mistake--my visual editor was showing that the linked sources were sources elsewhere in the article and did not belong where they were. I was simply trying to clean up sources on new material, and at no point did I wholesale revert these edits aside from removing the "Byline times" source.
   

I apologize for the final edit, but to make the accusation that it is edit-warring and socking is a huge leap, and pretty contentious behavior from the ip user just because I was copyediting new additions to the article. Massive additions to the article (ip address) and major reverting of them (Php2000) may indeed fall under the umbrella of the edit warring and belong on the talk page before they appear on the main page, but I had no place in those interactions nor do I know either editor. Also, at no point did I claim that revisions were reverted, which the ip user is also accusing me of.

I'll see myself out now. Hobomok (talk) 20:03, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

I am sorry, I wasn't aware accusing of socking counts as a personal attack, I thought that only includes insults like name calling and all, anyway won't do again, just a suspicion. Php2000 did indeed make destructive edits, whitewashing/blanking well sourced and reliable and accurate contents that fits the genocidal definition of the article (and you can see his talk page history, he received multiple warnings for such behavior), and I apologize to Hobomok whose edits were however good faith, but nowhere is Byline Times listed an unreliable source, it is a reliable newspaper, not some unreliable blog or anything, it for its WP:RS, I think the current version of the article is the best. Peace. 103.230.107.8 (talk) 22:53, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

What are you on about, Anonymous IP? I have only edited this article once, I have not received any warnings nor interacted with anyone. Please open an account if you are going to edit wikipedia and stop tagging me. Php2000 (talk) 23:08, 26 October 2020 (UTC)