Talk:The Undertaker

Top importance

shouldn't undertaker be top importance for the pro wrestling projectWikiOriginal-9 (talk)

Semi-protected edit request

Youtube video Interview from Off the Record (March 2002) talking about the controversy with Shawn Michaels (under heading Personal Life)

1984 in world class

Though many sources say 1984, his first tv match in world class against Bruiser Brody as "Texas Red" was in 1985. percy pringle (who managed him in the match) was in Florida in 1984 so it could not have been then. Pringle showed up in WCCW on October 18, 1985. So it can't be before then. Brody didn't work any TV tapings for WCCW in 1984. The tapes of the match all come from a WCCW syndicated show from 1987. You can tell it was 1987 because of the feuds mentioned by the commentators.2600:1700:CA01:F20:F8D6:1543:1A15:51C9 (talk) 00:28, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, the 1984 claim is BS. Calaway debuted in 1987, and that's now reflected in the article. Telekinetics (talk) 02:13, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Undertaker made an appearance at madison square garden on July 7th 2018. He teamed up with Roman Reigns and Brawn Strowman to defeat the team of Elis, kevin owens and Barcorbin. This should be added to his wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.124.157 (talk) 06:43, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Not trained by Don Jardine, according to Bruce Prichard

The page says that the Undertaker was trained by Don Jardine, but in this Youtube interview, Bruce Prichard, the first manager of the Undertaker, says he was not trained by Don Jardine, but was just "a big fan" of him.

watch?v=eu1yWCaWxF4?t=71

EGarrett01 (talk) 10:47, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

• Direct link to the Prichard comment raised above.[1]
• Wrestling journalist Greg Oliver indicates that Jardine did not train Calaway.[2]
• Pro Wrestling Torch notes that Jardine did not train Calaway[3] (from the 18-minute mark).
• Wrestling database Cagematch.net amended Calaway's trainer from Jardine to Buzz Sawyer.[4]
• During his long-form interview on the Broken Skull Sessions, Calaway says that he began training under Sawyer, and mentions no other trainer[5] (from the three-minute mark).
• According to an interview with his longtime friend and colleague Paul Bearer, Calaway went directly from sporadic training with Sawyer, to wrestling professionally for World Class. Again, no mention of Jardine.[6]

Calaway's supposed training under Jardine is a myth (to stand alongside his long-reported "1984 debut"), born of the fact that he aped Jardine's mask, black gear and "agile big man" shtick. Calaway did inherit the rope walk-elbow from Jardine while they shared a locker room at World Class, but that's not even close to "training" someone (did Ric Flair "train" the Miz by passing on the figure four?). I have removed Jardine's name from the "trainer" parameter. Telekinetics (talk) 01:43, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

• • Nice spotting guys. DTH89^{(sexy talk page)} 6:24, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Update Image

A more up to date image should be used for Undertaker due to the current one from 2014 being seriously outdated. His hair has grown back and he no longer sports the goatee from 2014. --86.129.223.228 (talk) 15:23, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

WrestleMania Headliner

Undertaker did not headline Wrestlemania in 2020. Brock Lesnar and Drew McIntyre did. Please remove. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.72.173 (talk) 15:33, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

No. Nights 1 and 2 were available as standalone pay-per-views,[7] with their own individual pre-shows and box office receipts. Any way you slice it, Undertaker closed out a PPV titled "WrestleMania". Telekinetics (talk) 20:21, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

He indeed headlined a PPV, but it happens to be called WM36 Day 1. Brock and Drew headlined a PPV called WM36 Day 2. But if you put those two days together, only one match was THE main event of the entire show (called WM36, without day 1 or day 2 added to its name), and it is as always the last match of them all. To say Taker headlined WM36 is to say he was the last match on WM36. Was he? No. There were 8 matches (+2 dark matches) after Taker vs AJ took place. We can give him a PPV main event for sure, just not another Mania main event, because even though Mania was a 2-day event this year, it was not called WM36 and WM37, because it was one big show split into two PPV airings.WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 14:26, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

"He indeed headlined a PPV, but it happens to be called WM36 Day 1". Um, yeah. What PPV did he headline on April 4, then, if not WrestleMania? The Wrestling Classic? This Tuesday in Texas? In Your House?

You're hung up on directly equating WM36 to all the single-broadcast, single-main event Manias of yesteryear, which is a blatant fallacy. Never before has the event been broadcast as two separate PPVs, rendering this an unprecedented, very different beast. Nobody has a problem with the idea of a two- or three-day music festival having a separate headliner for each individually-ticketed day, so why is this so hard? Both Styles/Undertaker and Brock/Drew headlined WM36, by virtue of closing out their respective PPVs. Peace. Telekinetics (talk) 20:39, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Telekinetics, but again would like to point out that it really doesn't matter if they main evented or not because the phrase "headliner" is thrown around so loosely. We say Ric Flair headlined WrestleMania VIII and his match wasn't at the top of a card like this one was.LM2000 (talk) 22:50, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

""He indeed headlined a PPV, but it happens to be called WM36 Day 1". Um, yeah. What PPV did he headline on April 4, then, if not WrestleMania? The Wrestling Classic? This Tuesday in Texas? In Your House?" You misread it. He headlined WrestleMania DAY 1, not WrestleMania. WrestleMania was split into two PPVs, but only one match closed out the overall event called WrestleMania 36, and it obviously was not Taker AJ.WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 00:46, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Again, you insist on awkwardly filing an unprecedented two-day Mania alongside one-day Manias, arguing that a two-day event can only have one headliner because, um, that's what one-day events had. An obvious logical fallacy.

If the April 5 show was just some clean continuation of the previous night, then why did it have its own PRE-show? No, these were two equal, clearly-delineated PPVs. As such, WM36 had two headlining matches. WP:DROPTHESTICK. Telekinetics (talk) 01:21, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

It had its own pre show because it was a PPV on its own, but under the banner of WrestleMania 36. How many matches were the final match of WrestleMania 36? Only one, because how could there ever be two? I am not denying that there were two PPVs called Day 1 and Day 2 of WM36, but there was only one WM36. Otherwise next year's Mania would be called number 38 and I highly doubt that will happen. So until they name it WM38, this was one Mania split into two PPVs and therefore Taker only main evented the first half, not the entire thing.WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 21:14, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Oh please. I really do not understand some of these editors who don't understand the fundamentals and logistics of things. You cannot compare WrestleMania to a music festival. WrestleMania 36 may have been sold as two separate PAY PER VIEWS, but WrestleMania 36 was was NOT "two separate shows/events". It was ONE show and ONE event called "WrestleMania 36" which was split into two PARTS. WWE themselves even list it this way on the WWE Network. "Part 1" and "Part 2". While Taker may have been the last match or "headlined" Part 1, he did not "headline" the event of WrestleMania 36. Brock Lesnar and Drew McIntyre did. Until a day when WWE indicates this, please remove the reference that he headlined WrestleMania in four difference decades and on five occasions.

Stop insulting users who disagree with you (WP:CIVIL). Telekinetics (talk) 02:13, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Exactly.WrestlingLegendAS (talk) 14:18, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Per Dave Scherer of PWInsider (WP:PW/RS#Reliable sources), Styles vs. Undertaker was indeed a WrestleMania-headlining match.[8] I have restored the lede to its previous form: if one wishes to challenge this, please provide a WP:PW/RS source that asserts Styles vs. Undertaker was not a headliner. We're past bickering here, especially now that a preferred source has chimed in. Telekinetics (talk) 01:13, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2020

replace the current picture with a picture of him In the ring. Mwolfanger10 (talk) 19:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Pictures can be found at c:Category:Mark Calaway. Please reopen this request with a specific image. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2020

WWE Smackdown! vs RAW 2009 2001:1970:56EC:C700:18F3:9B53:6160:3E01 (talk) 18:42, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:45, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2020

The unfinished list of video game appearances should include wwf attitude 109.255.75.225 (talk) 21:35, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:53, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2020

The undertaker was trained by Don Jardine aka the Spoiler Buzz sawyer had very little to do with his trainining. 47.220.39.138 (talk) 23:41, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 01:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Sidebox: "Retired June 21, 2020"

That's not accurate. He's yet to officially announce his retirement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.71.190 (talk) 21:58, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

He announced it on the WWE network special The The Last Ride. The WWE is further confirming his retirement with a new Twitter account called #ThankYouTaker.Mancalledsting (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

He'll be back next year maybe even sooner no way he ends his entire career WITHOUT being in the ring

I don't like that Andrew9393787 keeps erasing even what Taker mentioned in The Last Ride. I too have been a fan of The Undertaker, but Wikipedia is a encyclopedia and not a fan pageMancalledsting (talk) 00:01, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2020

 Not done: Since you didn't actually state any edit request, there's no way of knowing what you want changed. If you reopen this edit request, please specifically state the changes you want. See also WP:Edit requests. Rummskartoffel (talk) 20:14, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Disputed retirement

There's currently an edit reverting issue on the article on if Undertaker retired from wrestling or not, Andrew9393787 keeps constantly deleting the info saying that it isn't official. But accourding to Calliway himself, he officially stated in the "Undertaker: The Last Ride" documentry that he has official retied from wrestling for good. Can we please discuss this issue on here first instead of starting an edit war. Or restore the info so this won't get any worse. 2600:1000:B06A:2A4C:C904:FE2D:8095:69C8 (talk) 19:07, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Googling for Undertaker retirement, I mostly found speculation and very few results that actually outright stated he was retiring, although I did find one BBC article, which, I assume, should generally be a quite reliable source (although that one also has a kind of speculative tone to it). Personally, I'd say we should err on the side of caution and wait till we get more sources unambiguously and without any hints of speculation stating his retirement. In any case, pinging Andrew9393787. Rummskartoffel (talk) 20:14, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Ok thanks, I just misunderstood why he kept on deleting it. But your right, best to wait until we get more sources. 2600:1000:B01B:F2E0:D86F:6A09:38B9:5D4E (talk) 22:38, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. Some wrestlers claimed he retired. Some sources say he is retired [9] [10] [11]. But other just say he hinted the retirement [12] [13] So, let's include that he hinted the retirement. Not that he retired, but neither delete, since it's covered. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 14:45, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

HHH Pedrigree I believe we should report his current status. this source reports that "as of now, WWE says he is done as an active wrestler." This absolutely does not imply that he won't try another comeback, but for now he is retired. I also join the chorus of the two editors complaining about Andrew9393787's behavior. This is a collective encyclopedia and as far as I can see from his edit patterns he does not seem to be here to contribute constructively. Khruner (talk) 20:01, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

First, WrestlingNews is listed as a unreliable source by the project. Most of the sources say he "hinted" the retirement, but nothing definitive. The optimal thing it's to report he hinted his retirement, since most of the souces said so. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:29, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Fine by be, I took it as reliable just after checking that it is used on several pages on the topic. Khruner (talk) 07:39, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Mr Calaway has never used the words "retired" or "retirement", which seem crucial with regard to declaring him a retired wrestler. News sources, however respectable, don't get to throw in the towel for him. Dory Funk (talk) 11:43, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Actually they do. If multiple, reliable, secondary sources claim that he is retired, this is what we should report on Wikipedia, until he officially denies the claims; in the latter case it would then be necessary to update the information, preferably when the denial is reported, again by reliable, secondary sources. Khruner (talk) 12:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

"It is acceptable to use common sense as you go about editing. Being too wrapped up in rules can cause loss of perspective, so there are times when it is better to ignore a rule." If ever there was a time, it's now. Journalists do not get to decide people's retirements. Dory Funk (talk) 13:17, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Dory Funk Neither do Wikipedia editors get to decide that he is still active, but violation of WP:NOR is such a common feature of WP:PW, thank heavens its under GS. Various WP:PW/RS says he is retired, WWE themselves used a tribute show, not everyone uses the word "retirement" to describe the end of their career, synonyms are used, as with CM Punk, I don't recall him ever using the word "retirement". Shawn Michaels after returning in 2018 is listed "retired" despite him never using the particular word, but similar to Taker he said he had no desire to wrestle again. Neither did Ric Flair say he retired in 2011, but he said "he was discouraged from ever wrestling again after Jerry Lawler's heart attack."There is 0 WP:RS that Taker is still active, its all based on WP:NOR violating speculations of some editors. Anyway I won't bother to change anything regardless, because I didn't believe either HBK would return after 2010, he ended up doing it for Saudi money, so who knows. At least it IS mentioned he hinted retirement, so I am satisfied with that. Dilbaggg (talk) 19:10, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Most sources say he hinted his retirement, that's why his article says he hinted his retirement. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 10:09, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Like I already mentioned above the same can be said about The Rockk, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair and even Stone Cold they all hinted retirement by saying they have no desire to go back to the ring and simultaneously stopped wrestling and their retirement dates were listed asas per hints, not a direct statement from WP:PW/RS. very few wrestlers have used the direct word "i am retired" to describe their stats. The same with Undertaker and there are multiple WP:PW/RS saying he retired, like [14] from Sports Illustrated listed as a reliable source. The Shawn Micchaels article uses this source [15] as his retirement date November 3, 2018, but nowhere is it stated he retired, it was the hint the same as Taker. So why only say Taker's retirement is a hint, change HBK's stats too. Best case would have been if there was a consensus imo. Dilbaggg (talk) 12:44, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

The source you gave, Title "Is The Undertaker Really Finished?" subtitle "WWE’s Undertaker documentary teased his retirement, but anything is possible in the world of pro wrestling." So, source doesn't support his retirement. Superluchas "Undertaker hints that at WrestleMania 36 he played his last match" wrestleview "The Undertaker hints that he is retired from professional wrestling, “no desire” to wrestle". wrestleview "At the conclusion of the fifth and final episode of “Undertaker: The Last Ride,” Mark Calaway hinted that he was retired from wrestling" BBC "His words suggest plans to retire after a career spanning three decades. But neither Mr Calaway nor the WWE have formally announced his retirement from the league." He said he has not desire, but didn't confirm the retirement. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 21:43, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

About the others: Flair "I want to be in the ring, but it will never happen again. I said I’d never wrestle in WWE… and then there’s the Jerry Lawler incident. / I went back to the ring in TNA, and that will never happen again." Michaels Fightful "stated that he is officially done with in-ring competition." the WWE interview it's [16] "“We are going back to our regular lives. It’s a lot of fun to do, but I’m glad it’s over too.”" The Rock Men's health "The Rock Just Announced His Official Retirement From Wrestling in the WWE" About Austin, I think you can find several sources about his retirement at WrestleMania. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 21:59, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

HHH Pedrigree thank you for your detailed clarification, I agree with you now. Dilbaggg (talk) 04:27, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Here are links to two recent interviews with Callaway. I don't know what you think, but he sure sounds retired to me...

https://nypost.com/2020/11/11/undertaker-reflects-on-wwe-career-before-survivor-series-farewell/

https://www.thewrap.com/the-undertaker-wwe-survivor-series-retirement-boneyard-match-mark-calaway/

194.69.14.62 (talk) 15:06, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

What happened to the first half of this page?

There's no introduction, and the first, what, twenty years of his career are missing? It clearly starts in the middle of a storyline that off the top of my head started in the late 2000s. Broken tag, too. I don't know enough about Wikipedia (or the Undertaker) to fix it, but it seems odd to have such an obvious issue on such a high-profile page.2601:249:1680:6D00:AC08:E57:3031:2C18 (talk) 23:34, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Undertaker Leaving To WCW Is Uncited Fake News

" Per an interview with Kevin Nash, this was a move to allow Calaway to enter World Championship Wrestling with a non-trademarked persona. Had he entered WCW, it would have been as Mark Calaway. Although negotiations were described as close, he ultimately re-signed with the World Wrestling Federation."

There is no source for this, and even if there were, Kevin Nash isn't exactly a notable source anyway. Undertaker has denied ever having real interest in leaving anyway, but that doesn't matter since that is baseless. Remove please. 32.213.92.111 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:13, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2020

37.238.81.27 (talk) 21:28, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:40, 7 November 2020 (UTC)