Talk:2011 Super Outbreak

Death toll tweaks continue

Newest SPC fatality list update: 78 deaths for Hackleburg tornado. This puts it on the list of 25 deadliest US tornadoes. Also, Tuscaloosa tornado is back up to 61, and the total for the main outbreak (after 12z April 27) is back up to 314. Of course these tweaks will continue, and it's still possible the Hackleburg number is an overcount, but that's looking less and less likely with each revision.-RunningOnBrains^(talk) 07:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

That would put the total tornadic death toll at 322. The overall death toll moves up to 341 as Alabama moved up. The difference between the EMA figures and the SPC figures for states that either need to be revised or re-checked for other events (probably non-tornadic): AL 0 (all tornadic, was -1 but updated), AR +7, GA +1, MS +4, TN +2, VA +1. I also moved the Louisiana deaths to non-tornadic as no killer tornadoes occured there. Notice one of the deaths was from an EF0 tornado, that has to be the first such occurance in a long time (probably a damaged weak tree hit someone). CrazyC83 (talk) 14:11, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm still struggling to wrap my head around the shear magnitude of this event. These are just staggering figures. Neither of my parents were even born the last time a tornado killed more than 57 people, and now it looks like we had two on a single day. Last time two tornadoes killed at least 60 in a 24 hour period was Flint-Worcester, and those two were almost 20 hours apart. Tuscaloosa touched down less than two hours after Hackleburg. 78?! Jesus Christ, Udall is sitting there at 82. I know you only have to go back two more years to get to the incredible carnage that was 1953 but dear God. I know SPC is plenty official but I'd like another agency to start endorsing these numbers before I can believe such incredible figures. I'm still not sure how much I trust that table. Note that they still list Ohatchee as an EF3. It was upgraded weeks ago. -- Watch For Storm Surge!§eb 21:06, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

[1] Hackleburg tornado back down to 71. I had a feeling they might have counted the other EF-5 towards this tornado.-RunningOnBrains^(talk) 20:08, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if the two tracks will eventually combine in the final totals? That would be one extraordinarily long tornado (with 93 deaths, before Joplin that would have seen outrageous). CrazyC83 (talk) 14:49, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Pardon me, I just noticed this discussion right here after lurking this article since the outbreak [although I have updated a few path lengths on the tornado list page as per updated PNS before signing up with an account today] and even though I assume this has already been clarified, I just wanted to add that I can confirm that the two northern EF-5's were indeed from different supercells. Radar loops from NWS offices show the progression of the supercells and tornadoes in Marion county, and the Hackleburg tornado was in the Tennessee Valley when the Smithville tornado moved into the state. BMX notes that the Hackleburg tornado began at about 305PM, and the Alabama segment of the Smithville tornado began at 357PM. Amazing to note, the Hackleburg tornado was still on the ground when the Smithville tornado reached peak, therefore there were two tornadoes rated overall EF-5 on the ground at the same time! Hope this clarification helps in some way. EquusStorm (talk) 16:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

The tracks are parallel and separated by a couple miles in the survey maps I've seen, so I doubt it. I can't wait for storm data, it will make this so much easier.-RunningOnBrains^(talk) 21:59, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

That will probably come out in late July or in early August, but it may take a bit longer for everything to appear given the extreme nature. March should be out soon (the final total for that month right now is 75) but that month had no major outbreaks. It will also tell us the real, final death toll as well. Morristown is especially problematic since they have not much details at all really. CrazyC83 (talk) 03:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Outbreak's Place in History

I would just like to reaffirm that this outbreak does rank in some of the USA's costliest disasters http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/damage1980.asp One can probably guess, that it ranks probably 15th if you add the Northridge earthquake. However a tornado outbreak ranking even in the 20 costliest natural disasters(for the USA), is pretty startling. Because of how small scale they typically are compared to hurricanes or earthquakes, tornadoes typically cause much less damage. Stating that this outbreak does rank in some of the top, shows how extensive and how destructive this outbreak was both for property and loss of life.

That's fair enough justification I suppose. I just get tired sometimes that everyone is so quick to label something as the "one of the worst (disaster)s in (place) history"; I feel it cheapens the phrase to the point where it doesn't mean anything anymore. This is clearly one of the deadliest tornado disasters in US history (4th?), I felt it didn't need the extra qualifier. Plus, if it ends up being the lower estimate ($6 billion), it might not even crack the top 25 weather disasters. I still think we should hold off on the "one of the costliest" wording until we have a better final damage estimate, but I'm not going to change it.-RunningOnBrains^(talk) 02:13, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Change to 2011 Super outbreak

Since this outbreak has often been refereed to as the 2011 Super outbreak, is it possible to rename this article as such due to its historic significance? Looking for other users' opinions. Stormchaser89 (talk) 10:15, 17 June 2011 (US Central Time)

I'm not really endorsing it yet, since many sources have said it but it hasn't universally clicked. However, once the final reports and the NWS Service Assessment come out, the real name will likely be known then. CrazyC83 (talk) 03:21, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

First Cordova tornado

The rating for the first Cordova tornado still seems to be in limbo. NWS Birmingham still has not addressed whether the damage to the home at the beginning of the track meritted an EF4 rating. Sure seems like it to me. The house was completely obliterated, leaving a foundation swept clean. If that's not EF4, I don't know what is. I'm starting to wonder if NWS Birmingham has just forgotten about it. -- Watch For Storm Surge!§eb 18:26, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

They likely finished their assessments but are not updating the page until later; however, it's likely that their busy with other tornadoes. Assessments are still ongoing, especially for the most intense tornadoes (Rainsville being the most recent example) and Huntsville seems to be finding new tornadoes every week or so. Either way, you can just email NWS Birmingham and ask about it. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:23, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Casein point, NWS Huntsville just released info on another EF1 that touched down on April 20 PNS. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:36, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Huntsville seems to be a lot more active than Birmingham. I haven't seen much activity at all on NWS Birmingham's end. Every once in a while, they'll add something to their page, but nothing on the tornadoes. A lot of the information on each individual tornado hasn't been updated. Though still better than NWS Memphis, who only ever released a brief Public Information Statement on the Smithville tornado. -- Watch For Storm Surge!§eb 01:35, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Memphis isn't doing all that bad. They have reports on each tornado in their area. Most recent update to the Memphis page on the outbreak was 6/13. They're more or less done with everything. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 04:09, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Smithville/Shottsville tornado path length?

Is it 15.24 miles, as on the main outbreak page, or 75 miles, as on the tornado list page? So many tornadoes crossed CWA and/or state boundaries during this event that it confused the initial counts and data quite a bit.

174.102.209.228 (talk) 06:20, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

A few minor issues

I think this article is getting close to B but currently I would say its probably a C class.. Here are a few things I see and if they are fixed I think it will close to GA status as well as B.

• Still needs some inline citations
• The lede normally should not have inline citations. The lede only summerizes information contained in the article so if the information is in the article, the source should appear there.
• I would recommend staggering the pictures out a bit. They are all on the right side and all about the same size. It needs a little more variety.
• I'm not sure that we need the Confirmed tornadoes section. The whole article's tornadoes are confirmed I would think and this section offers very little content so I would move the link to the list and the table somewhere else
• It might be a good idea to add a small section about how the info on the tornadoes is gathered and how they track them.
• If you have a link to an article in the body text there is no need for it to me in a hatnote saying See also or Main.
• If the article is linked in the article then there is no need to put it in the see also section (2011 Mississippi River floods for example)
• There are some citation issues: 16, 17, 36, 37, 38, 40, 41, 44, 71, 72 all appear to be bare references.
• Reference 70 has an error. --Kumioko (talk) 17:32, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Still a lot of work needs to be done, I agree. In late July or early August, once the NCDC Storm Data comes in, then the real work can begin. Although it will be time-consuming since the other outbreaks (especially April 14-16) also need to be updated then as well. CrazyC83 (talk) 04:25, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Comparison to Super Outbreak of 1974

I think it would be worth noting that while the April 2011 tornado outbreak had more tornadoes confirmed than the Super Outbreak of 1974, I do think it is also worth noting that the Super Outbreak was more severe. The Super Outbreak had more F3 to F5's than the April 2011 Tornado Outbreak had, while the April 2001 Outbreak had more overall tornadoes. I also think we should point out that it is possible not all tornadoes formed during the Super Outbreak were counted because of the limitations of the meteorology technology of the time. With advanced satellite, Doppler, Pulse-Doppler radar and many many storm chasers, the April 2011 Outbreak was tracked more closely than the Super Outbreak was. -Brian_{(view my history)}/^{(How am I doing?)} 04:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)